Connecting switch to router ? - Adding more internet ports.

[Dave227]

Okay, I thought I understood how switches work, but apparently not.

I have a home network running from a cable modem to a netgear wireless N600 (WNDR3400) 4 port router. I need a way to plug five devices into it. I thought I could just plug a cable from one of the ports into a switch (Netgear FS605 fast 10/100 switch) and then plug in my two devices to that (a desktop computer and ps3). But when I do, I can't get anything plugged into it to access the internet. I e-mailed this to netgear, and they suggested the FVS models, which appear to be firewalls costing more than $100 more than the current switch. Do I really need that just to have internet to five plugged in devices?

This is extra annoying because I had a great setup before with a Linksys BEFW11S4 wireless-B router plugged into a very old netgear EN104tp hub, and it did just fine with all five devices having internet access. Unfortunately that router died, and the new netgear router does not seem to recognize the 10+ year hub. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

 

[hang-the-9]

What you did should be fine, as long as the switch has autosensing ports or an uplink port. Some uplink ports have a little toggle switch to turn that port on and off uplink.

So you need to have Router > Switch (uplink or autosense port) > PCs.

If for some reason that does not work, get a new 1gig switch, they are pretty cheap.

 

[Dave227]

Yes, the switch has autosensing ports (no toggle or anything else on there). This is actually the second switch I tried (I had a d-link one, but couldn't get it to work, so I took it back and tried the current netgear one), so I don't know what the likelihood of getting two bad switches from two different companies and stores in a row is. But I tried both switches on both my current router and one I borrowed, and neither worked with either router.

Is there something I'm missing?

 

[hang-the-9]

Are you getting the correct IPs from the router on the computers on the switch? Try using a crossover cable to the router.

 

[Dave227]

According to the manual, it should autodetect the cable, so a crossover cable shouldn't be necessary. I know the particular cables are not bad because they worked in the previous setup (and swapping them to the computers plugged in directly works). As for IPs, I'm not getting them on the computer plugged into the switch (not sure about the ps3, the other device plugged in).

 

[darlingpchelp]

according to my research there is a designated port for wan unless you can modify the settings of the switch then your router most connect to the designated wan port site specs http://www.netgear.com/home/products/switches-and-access-points/unmanaged-switches/FS605.aspx

amazon had a pic of the back if this is the correct model please advise http://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-media/product-gallery/B00006B9H8/ref=cm_ciu_pdp_images_0?ie=UTF8&index=0

The auto detect you speak of is for speed detection again this is according to the model you gave and the research I have read

 

[hang-the-9]

The WAN port on the router would be for the ISP modem, the switch should pick up an IP connection off any other port on it. There is only one WAN port, so there is no way to hook up a switch to it without losing internet.

Auto detect can be for speed, but I'm talking about the port figuring out if it needs to cross over the data connections for an uplink like a cross over cable would do. The speed selection is actually called auto negotiation technically, but can be referred to as auto detect.

Don't really see what may be causing the issue here, should be just plug in the switch into a router.

It's not a smart switch is it? Check port settings? Maybe something in the router config for the ports?
Can you try with manual IP settings? I have seen issues where DHCP data is not passed though switches but it will connect aside from that.

 

[JDFan]

Does the wiring for all 5 devices meet near the router ? -- If so try connecting the PS3 directly to the router and use the switch on two of the PCs instead -- as Hang the 9 mentioned it should be plug and play just like you thought as well. So perhaps it is something a bit different about the PS3.

IF you disconnect the 5th device but still use the switch for the 4th device does it work ?

 

[Dave227]

Yes, I saw from the manual there was a designated WAN port, so I made sure to plug in the cord from the router (which had the cable modem plugged into it) into the WAN slot according to the manual/back of box. Then I tried plugging the computer into each of the other four slots. On a computer running XP (a laptop for testing), when I would unplug the cord I would get the little pop-up in the bottom right saying a network cable had been unplugged, when I plugged in the switch, it would change to the popup "acquiring an IP address," then after a few seconds, I would get the popup saying "limited or no connectivity."

When I ran ipconfig, this is what I got back -
Connection-specific DNS Suffix :
Autoconfiguration IP Address : 169.254.246.173
Subnet Mask : 255.255.0.0
Default Gateway :

This is what I get when I run it just plugging the computer directly -
Connection-specific DNS Suffix :
IP Address : 192.168.1.108
Subnet Mask : 255.255.255.0
Default Gateway : 192.168.1.1

As for the using only four devices plugged in, etc, that's not really an option. Basically, I have a router upstairs that plugs into a computer and a tv in the room next to it, as well as a cord that runs down to the bedroom. Then downstairs is where the other computer and playstation are. Unfortunately, there is only one cord that runs from the downstairs up to the room with the router (and it runs between the ceiling and floor of the above floor), so changing that isn't an option. And the cord only reaches to one side of the room downstairs, so part of the reason the switch is needed is to have two devices, and part is to have another cord to run to the computer across the room that otherwise couldn't be reached. Believe me, I would have given up on this a while ago if I could do any other option.

 

[Dave227]

And I double-checked the manual for the switch, it says it can use both regular and cross-over cords interchangeably, so that shouldn't be the issue either.

 

[hang-the-9]

Yes, I saw from the manual there was a designated WAN port, so I made sure to plug in the cord from the router (which had the cable modem plugged into it) into the WAN slot according to the manual/back of box. Then I tried plugging the computer into each of the other four slots. On a computer running XP (a laptop for testing), when I would unplug the cord I would get the little pop-up in the bottom right saying a network cable had been unplugged, when I plugged in the switch, it would change to the popup "acquiring an IP address," then after a few seconds, I would get the popup saying "limited or no connectivity."

Hold on a sec, the "switch" you are using has a WAN port? That's a Router not a switch. There is your issue.

Get a regular switch like this http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833704042

To use a Router as a switch you need to turn off NAT, DHCP, and all other Router services.

 

[darlingpchelp]

You need set proper configuration on your switch if indeed it is a true switch. Because from what you are saying the switch is trying to give your computer an ip address when your router is already doing that. While you can still use this setup if you can it may be better off for you to get a auto sensing switch they come cheap here http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&sku=436522-4&ST=Networking&dgc=ST&cid=72662&lid=1838872&acd=pl_dhsea:028095,,901pdb6671 I use this exact one for small buisness use and it works like a charm no config need and your router still controls ip addresses


If you really want to still use the same setup let me know I can help

 

[Dave227]

My mistake, I don't know why I said WAN port. What I meant was the port specifically shown in the manual/on the box as the one to plug in to a router/cable modem.

Actually, darlingpchelp, the switch I have is I think exactly the one you're linking me to, just the newer version I guess (you show FS605, I have FS605v3 - mine is white plastic instead of blue, but basically the same thing, just a power cord and five ports). That's why I'm so confused, as far as I know, this is basically just a plug-and-play switch, and if it doesn't work I don't know what there is to troubleshoot. I guess the next option is to take it back to the store and get another one in the hopes that this one in particular is just defective?

 

[JDFan]

Have you tested the switch\laptop connection by connecting the switch directly to the router without using the cable run that goes downstairs ? Could be the cable run from the router to downstairs has a problem --- try connecting the laptop directly to the router with 2 separate cables one at a time - (to isolate the 2 cables and make sure both cables work properly) If both work and the laptop connects properly then use those same 2 cables to run from the router to the switch and to the laptop and see if it works (that way you isolate the switch as the only part added - if it works then it may be the cable run going downstairs - if it doesn't try using different ports on the switch (perhaps it has one bad port) - If none work then you know it is a problem with the switch.

 

[Dave227]

Yes, I have tried the switch not only on the downstairs running cable, but with other cables (all of which work just to provide internet to whatever they are plugged into from the router, but not when going through the switch). I don't think it's a cable problem.

 

[Dave227]

I returned the switch to a store and got another one, and it turns out it is a cable + switch combo problem. The new switch works with all but two cables, the one running down the hall and the one going downstairs. I'm not sure why these cables work with an old hub, but not with a newer switch, but they appear to be the only ones that have the problem. I know they are not over 100 meters, so distance shouldn't be a problem. The only other difference is that we ran these two cables into a wall socket (we didn't know what the computer setup was going to be at the time, so we just took the ends off standard eithernet cables and plugged the wires into a standard ethernet wall socket you could buy at Wal-Mart) so their setup is cable coming out of router plugged into wall socket that is then a cable running downstairs to the switch. Anyone hear of anything like this happening before? I guess we could pull out the wall socket and see if there's any extra cable slack that we could pull them up, attach a new end, and plug it directly into the router, but if there isn't that extra slack, I don't know of anything else to try.

 

[hang-the-9]

The wall jack or cables could be wired badly or have physical breaks or shorts.

 

[JDFan]

The wall jack or cables could be wired badly or have physical breaks or shorts.

+1 -- sometimes the wall plates will not splice the wire correctly so that the connection does not work or 2 of the prongs may short each other out. Or you may have switched one of the wiring pairs into the wrong position - I'd redo the connection and make sure it matches the other end of the cable - also make sure there is not a piece of plastic or something stuck in the connector keeping it from getting plugged in properly.

 

[Dave227]

Would it be something wrong with the wall plate if the cord I have coming out of it works now when plugged directly into a laptop, computer, ps3, etc, just not into a switch? Is that possible? Because I can get internet as long as I don't plug in through the switch.

 

[rock11]

Would it be something wrong with the wall plate if the cord I have coming out of it works now when plugged directly into a laptop, computer, ps3, etc, just not into a switch? Is that possible? Because I can get internet as long as I don't plug in through the switch.

Hi Dave,
I have the same problem.
Did you find a resolution?

 

[Dave227]

Hi Dave,
I have the same problem.
Did you find a resolution?

I never could figure out what was wrong. I ended up moving so it is no longer an issue, but if I hadn't, I would probably be incredibly frustrated at this point. I know I tried three different switches, all three different brands, none of which worked. But the over-a-decade old hub or just plugging straight in always worked fine. To this day I am stumped.

 

[richy4248]

It could be a duplex mismatch - try manually setting the port the hub is plugged in to to half-duplex.

 

[Daniel Weese]

I wish I had a solution for you. I am experiencing the same issue at a larger scale in the schools. I am rather frustrated with what I thought I knew about switches myself. Our school has 24 port unmanaged switches daisy chained together to the best of my knowledge and I used to have internet working on the 3rd floor. Now I don't and I can't determine what is going on with it. All I want to do is figure out what port goes to what wall socket and be able to have Internet for all as the school year starts up. We have an 8 port and a 24 port Netgear switch on the first floor and then it is HP 24 port switches on the 2nd and 3rd floor. The day we started to map the network on the 3rd floor we were making some progress in the classrooms as I simply plugged in a laptop into each of the wall sockets in the classrooms to determine if I received internet and I was able to have an assistant determine which light showed up on the switch. I don't have anything on the 2nd or 3rd floor now

I would appreciate any advice on how to test the situation. I enjoyed reading your issue and wondered if I can figure out my issue by completely studying what all advice you received. I know that this was an old issue but I have a lot of questions by looking over yours. Please advise!

 

[WLANcable]

I had this problem with Gbit switches and cat 5 cables and some specific network cards/computers. When the connection speed was manually set on the computer to 100 Mbit instead of auto negotiation (which tried Gbit speed and did not fall back to 100 Mbit) the connection was stable.

Hope this helps

Roger

 

[Rimendoz86]

regardless of the whether you have a wan port or not, switches keep mac address tables so it knows which ports to forward packets. a packet form your routers switch interface can make its way into your other switch and send it to the correct port.

Now to what i think the problem is.

169.254.246.173 is an IPV4 Link Local address, This means that your machine was unsuccessful in locating a DHCP server and acquiring an IP address and your operating system picked one, somewhere between your machine and the Router/DHCP Server the broadcast packet is being dropped. First Manually assign an unused IP address within the same network to your problem machine/device, 192.168.1.101-254 Subnet Mask 255.255.255.0 and the 192.168.1.1 as your default gateway. This will fix your first apparent problem. Now that you worked around the IP issue then test the connectivity using which ever wires you need to. No one wants to maintain static IP address so now once you have established connectivity try to switch back to DHCP(Obtain IP Address automatically). Also even most if not all routers/switches have Auto MDIX( The thing letting us uses Crossover and Straight and Straight as Crossover) when trouble shooting its best to use the appropriate cable to remove the possibility that it is causing issues.

I know this post is old but hopefully any of this is helpful to anyone experiencing a similar problem as the OP.