Question Connection issues with WiFi 7

[anselmschueler]

When I bought my home router, I considered getting a more expensive one that supports WiFi 7. I am not familiar with networking, so I only considered a FRITZ!Box (very popular brand in Germany; as far as I know, they work well—I don't need most of their features though). However, since I have Ethernet to the home, I don't need a modem, which means the price difference between the WiFi 7 models (which all had modems) was large, and since I don't know how much of a difference WiFi 7 makes, I got the WiFi 6 one (FRITZ!Box 4050). But I have now bought the expensive model (FRITZ!Box 5690 Pro) as well, with the intention of returning whichever I decide against after testing within the fourteen-day returns window. To clarify: I am not asking for advice on whether WiFi 7 is worth it; I’m trying to find that out myself.

I get Internet through an Ethernet jack, at 1Gb/s, and I don't have a landline or so. The apartment is only 50m². It's a multi-tenant building and there are lots of other WiFi networks around.

I use this with a laptop that has WiFi 6E (AMD RZ616) and (at least, I'm not sure if perhaps more) 1Gb/s Ethernet, and a phone with WiFi 7 (Google Pixel 9 Pro).

When testing (sloppily), I found that WiFi speeds didn't drop off nearly as fast with WiFi 7 as with WiFi 6 (which they did noticeably even in a small space, though my router placement isn't ideal, either).

However, I have noticed an issue that doesn't occur with WiFi 6. When I go outside the apartment into the foyer, and when I stand on the balcony near the router but with a water pipe between me and it, the internet connection on my phone stops momentarily. The phone thinks it's connected to WiFi, but all loading stalls for a second or two. Then the phone disconnects from WiFi and reconnects, and everything works again.

Is this an issue that it to be expected with WiFi 7?
If not, is it an issue with the router or the phone?
Is there anything I can do to troubleshoot the issue?

 

[bill001g]

In general wifi7 is all marketing to get you to spend more money. Wifi6e also runs on the 6ghz radio band.

The question is why do you need very fast wifi speed on your phone. Once you get say above 100mbps it makes little to no difference. 4k netlix only uses 30mbps. Web pages use massive amounts of very tiny files and the overhead make it impossible to see any difference in speed. The only thing it would help with is if you were to download some huge files. Something like microsoft flight simulator is 100gbyte and a faster connection can reduce the time to download it. Problem is the phone does not have that much disk space and even if it did it still can not run these large games even if the game vendors supported it.

6ghz has a lot more radio channels so you can use very wide radio bands and there is more room to share, in theroy, with your neighbors. Problem is 6ghz is more easily blocked by walls and goes less distance. It would not be uncommon for the device to say drop down to the 5ghz radio or even the 2.4 if it can not get the 6ghz when you go outside. Be happy it switches your end device must be fairly smart, a lot of devices you must manually reconnect.

 

[anselmschueler]

In general wifi7 is all marketing to get you to spend more money.

Thanks for the cautionary words! That’s exactly why I wanted to test it first. The issue I’m trying to resolve right now, before I can make a decision, is where to attribute that issue to, and whether I can expect that it’s a firmware or software issue somewhere that might get fixed, or if there’s a workaround.

Also, I think the cheap models don’t have 6E either. To get 6E I’d have to shell out more money too. I’m not too pressed for cash at the moment…

As far as I know, WiFi without 6GHz also uses both 2.4 and 5 GHz, and devices can switch between them. So far I had not experienced my phone disconnecting randomly while moving withing a WiFi network, so this is very strange to me.

 

[cruisetung]

The problem with 2.4G and 5G is wifi congestion with your neighborhood. The problem with 6Ghz (6E and 7) is wall / object penetration and short range.

For most people , 2.4G and 5G is good enough for internet surfing and video watching. 4K video only consumes 30Mbps, way under most people's ISP subscription speed.

6Ghz not necessarily will improve your experience.

 

[bill001g]

The cost of wifi6e has come way down lately. Many routers are in the $150 range. Looking for a example I found this one on sale for $99
https://www.amazon.com/TP-Link-Deco-Tri-Band-XE70-Pro/dp/B0CZ7LYHLG

Key here is read the fine print. There is a new "scam?" even by large manufactures like tplink where they sell "dual" band wifi7 and wifi6e devices. This is crazy because the key feature makes wifi6e/wifi7 different than wifi5 is its ability to use the 6ghz radio frequencies and actually be able to use the wider 160 or 320mhz radio bands. In effect a dual band wifi7 router is actually a wifi5 router with a fake name on the box....they technically aren't telling outright lies but the end results for most people using them will be they perform the same as wifi5

 

[anselmschueler]

I have already found that the WiFi 7 router has improved connectivity. The only exception is that disconnection I mentioned. It also doesn't really matter if the improvement in connectivity is because of WiFi 7 or just better antenna design. The point is that I'm comparing two router models and one is better, except for a strange glitch, which I'd like to be able to understand. As to why I want a fast connection: I do in fact use the internet on my phone for various things, such as downloading large files, or uploading large files.

 

[bill001g]

I am guessing you are comparing wifi6 and wifi 7 not wifi6e and wifi7. The key benefit it the 6ghz radio band, mostly that all your neighbors are not stomping on you. Most people do not see any difference between wifi6e and wifi7.

One of the largest features they brag about with wifi7 is the ability to use 2.4,5 & 6ghz radios all at the same time in parallel. Problem is there will never be a portable device that supports this. A end device unlike a router only has a single radio chip. The end device would need 3 chips increasing the cost but much more important increasing the physical size and power needed. Problem is your average consumer is to lazy to read the details to understand they can never get the speeds that feature promises.

You would have to decide what "large" really means. It is unlikely you are talking gigabyte size files on a phone. Only you can put a value on your time. How many seconds a month does it save you for the extra cost of wifi7. Even on 100GBYTE files you might save a minute or two.

 

[anselmschueler]

Most people do not see any difference between wifi6e and wifi7.

That’s possible. But for my decision here it does not matter, I would not choose a different router if I were to unambiguously prefer WiFi 6E to WiFi 7.

Problem is there will never be a portable device that supports this. A end device unlike a router only has a single radio chip. The end device would need 3 chips increasing the cost but much more important increasing the physical size and power needed.

Is this, you reckon, the reason my phone disconnects? That’s what this question was mostly about.
Also, my phone does in fact use 5 and 6 GHz bands at the same time. So it seems to me a jump from two radios to three wouldn’t be that significant.

How many seconds a month does it save you for the extra cost of wifi7. Even on 100GBYTE files you might save a minute or two.

Good point—I’ll do more testing (which I intended to do anyway). I haven’t yet decided on which router to use, and the issue with the temporary disconnection is something I’d like to understand before I make a final decision.

 

[SyCoREAPER]

I agree with everything said.

Wifi is 90% marketing. What you really need to make sure of is that it has 2.4ghz (most do/should) and 5ghz.

IoT and smart devices almost always need 2.4ghz.

Wifi naming is idiotic.

WiFi 5 is 5GHz
WiFi 6 is also 5GHz.
Wifi 6e is 6Ghz.
Wifi 7 is 6ghz

6e has awful distance and is 3asily obstructed and is for all intents meaningless unless you are transferring large files between your own network in ideal situations.

WiFi 7 is supposed to fix the flaws of 6e but I'm not even sure if it's standardized yet. No reason to dump money on wifi 7 especially when most devices won't support it. Many still don't support 6e.

 

[anselmschueler]

Thank you for this advice. It is helpful. However, the real question was what was happening when my phone disconnects.

 

[bill001g]

No way to say for sure. Phones if they have any kind of log hide it so you really can't tell what it is doing. Maybe the router has a log but it might not show much other than the disconnect and reconnect but not tell you why.

My guess would be the phone is switching from one radio band to another. It takes it a bit to recalculate the keys. It could also just be that someone near you is also using wifi and the interference is bad enough to cause it lose a lot of data.

Best test would be to change the SSID so all the different radios have different names. You phone would then not switch because it thinks it is a different router. This also would allow you to force a connection to certain radio bands. In general 2.4g has much better coverage even though the bandwidth will likely be lower. This would show you if the outage is due the phone jumping between bands. Being outside also means that all the signals from your neighbors are much stronger and your signal now must pass through the wall. Interference is almost impossible to troubleshoot. All the good data about data retransmissions is locked up in the radio chips themselves. The OS on the phone or the router has no direct access to this data....have to thank the FCC and the hackers.

 

[anselmschueler]

Phones if they have any kind of log hide it so you really can't tell what it is doing.

I happen to run GrapheneOS, which exposes system logs. I’ll get back with relevant logs, if I find anything.

Best test would be to change the SSID so all the different radios have different names. You phone would then not switch because it thinks it is a different router.

In this case, would there be a separate 6GHz + 5GHz WiFi? Or would this also force the phone to not use multiple at once?

 

[bill001g]

A lot of people will called the networks somename and then put 24 or 5 or 6 on the end so they know which radio it is.

No phone in existence supports using multiple at the same time. Phones only have 1 radio chip that can switch radio bands to use more than one at the same time it would have to have multiple radio chips. That will never happen because of amount of space these chips take inside the phone and all the extra battery power they will use. It is only very recently that you can even buy a router that can do this. When wifi7 first came out there were massive issues getting this to work. It also is not completely a software thing so you have to buy a router with the newer wifi chipset that support it.

It is a extremely stupid feature. You now have 3 signals that can take interference from your neighbors. Since it attempt to use almost every radio band in existence it guarantee your will overlap someone. It is all marketing, unless you live on a farm far away from other neighbors it will not work well.

 

[anselmschueler]

No phone in existence supports using multiple at the same time.

Right, but my phone sometimes shows "5GHz and 6GHz" when connected to the WiFi in the WiFi details screen, and sometimes just "6GHz" or so. But never "2.5GHz and 5GHz".

 

[bill001g]

Hard to say what they put in the software on phones.

I would go into the router and change the name on each radio so it is different. That way you know for sure what you are connecting to.

You are much smarter than any phone in knowing which radio band works the best in different situations.