[SOLVED] Considering Water Cooling for 3900x - but I'm a bit lost.

[Zenyatta]

I recently got my hands on AMD's 3900x, and its been incredibly useful for my workload, but by far it's biggest limiting factor for me is heating. It can barely reach 4.00Ghz before I end up hitting 95C, despite my fans' best efforts.

Granted, I could probably configure them in a better way, but I think adding water-cooling would just be a better (and cooler!) option. The issue is that I have zero idea where to start, and what the general consensus is on good brands.

I heard from my cousin that Castle 360EX was pretty good, but regardless of what I end up choosing, I'm still clueless about the whole operation. Would I just buy one, and thats it? Is there anything else I would need to get? How often should I do some maintenance?

Overall, I'm just a bit clueless about water cooling and would love some help.

Phanteks Enthoo Pro (PH-ES614PC_BK)
3900x
Zotac GeForce GTX 1080 8 GB AMP! Extreme
Corsair Vengeance LPX 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3000

Edit: I realized that the reason my temps were so high was because I was running at well over 1.4 volts since the BIOS didn't change it... oops. I'll try some fiddling to see what I can do. Still! Water cooling would be interesting, so I'm still looking to go down that route.

 

[CountMike]

I recently got my hands on AMD's 3900x, and its been incredibly useful for my workload, but by far it's biggest limiting factor for me is heating. It can barely reach 4.00Ghz before I end up hitting 95C, despite my fans' best efforts.

Granted, I could probably configure them in a better way, but I think adding water-cooling would just be a better (and cooler!) option. The issue is that I have zero idea where to start, and what the general consensus is on good brands.

I heard from my cousin that Castle 360EX was pretty good, but regardless of what I end up choosing, I'm still clueless about the whole operation. Would I just buy one, and thats it? Is there anything else I would need to get? How often should I do some maintenance?

Overall, I'm just a bit clueless about water cooling and would love some help.

Phanteks Enthoo Pro (PH-ES614PC_BK)
3900x
Zotac GeForce GTX 1080 8 GB AMP! Extreme
Corsair Vengeance LPX 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3000

Edit: I realized that the reason my temps were so high was because I was running at well over 1.4 volts since the BIOS didn't change it... oops. I'll try some fiddling to see what I can do. Still! Water cooling would be interesting, so I'm still looking to go down that route.

I'm not familiar with that cooler but yes, it would be good to have such a cooler. Ryzen is sensitive to temperature and would be best to keep it under 65c for highest boost speeds,

 

[jon96789]

I think the problem is that the X570 motherboards are juicing the voltages... There were several sites that said the mobos are running hot (my mobo is a MSI MPG Carbon Pro Wi-Fi which is supposed to pretty bad at this). My 3900X is always running at ~1.38 volts, even with nothing running other than a browser. If I use Handbrake, the CPU hits 95 degrees which is way too hot with the stock AMD Wraith Prism cooler. I decided to order the Corsair H115i AIO and am awaiting the unit.

One thing I noticed. Under advanced power settings in the control panel in windows (power options/change plan settings/change advanced power settings/processor power management/maximum processor state), you can adjust the maximum processor state. I changed it from 100% to 99%.

The voltage dropped to 1.08v and the CPU temp peaks at 80 degrees under load. The drawback is that the CPU clock speed dropped to 3.72 GHz (from the standard clock speed of 3.8GHz). I thought this would be a concern but when using Handbrake, it made no difference in the time to encode a video. The CPU normally ramps up to full throttle in boost to 4.6GHz but no longer does so. Handbrake always used to use 100% processing on my old Intel i7-6700K but not on the Ryzen 3900X.

On a side note, AMD has released a new chip set driver (ver 1.07.29.xxx) which is supposed to remedy this but I have not installed it yet.

I also noted that using NVEnc on my RTX2070 actually is faster than the CPU in encoding with Handbrake. I wish the 3900x had hardware video built-in as this would probably be the fastest encode method. I wonder how fast the Intel i9-9900K with the onboard Intel Quick Sync would be. On my old CPU, Quick Sync was 3-4x than the CPU in encoding. My guess it would take 15 minutes to encode a full 50GB movie. The 3900X takes about 30-36 minutes and the RTX2070 takes 20 minutes. My old i7 took 90-120 minutes. The drawback using hardware encoding is that the quality suffers a tiny bit and the end file is also about 20% larger.

 

[CountMike]

I think the problem is that the X570 motherboards are juicing the voltages... There were several sites that said the mobos are running hot (my mobo is a MSI MPG Carbon Pro Wi-Fi which is supposed to pretty bad at this). My 3900X is always running at ~1.38 volts, even with nothing running other than a browser. If I use Handbrake, the CPU hits 95 degrees which is way too hot with the stock AMD Wraith Prism cooler. I decided to order the Corsair H115i AIO and am awaiting the unit.

One odd thing I noticed. Under advanced power settings in the control panel in windows (power options/change plan settings/change advanced power settings/processor power management/maximum processor state), you can adjust the maximum processor state. I changed it from 100% to 99%.

The voltage dropped to 1.08v and the CPU temp peaks at 80 degrees under load. The drawback is that the CPU clock speed dropped to 3.72 GHz (which is a lot lower than 1% for some odd reason). I thought this would be a major concern but when using Handbrake, it made no difference in the time to encode a video. It increased the CPU load on each thread . My guess is that the CPU normally ramps up to full throttle but the CPU load is reduced. Handbrake always used to use 100% processing on my old Intel i7-6700K but not on the Ryzen 3900X.

On a side note, AMD has released a new chip set driver (ver 1.07.29.xxx) which is supposed to remedy this but I have not installed it yet.

I also noted that using NVEnc on my RTX2070 actually is faster than the CPU in encoding with Handbrake. I wish the 3900x had hardware video built-in as this would probably be the fastest encode method. I wonder how fast the Intel i9-9900K with the onboard Intel Quick Sync would be. On my old CPU, Quick Sync was 3-4x than the CPU in encoding. My guess it would take 15 minutes to encode a full 50GB movie. The 3900X takes about 30-36 minutes and the RTX2070 takes 20 minutes. My old i7 took 90-120 minutes. The drawback using hardware encoding is that the quality suffers a tiny bit and the end file is also about 20% larger.

Practically all BIOS would keep unreasonably high voltages in the name of stability. Some new BIOS versions may address that problem, used to be worse. When I had 1600x and 1700x on a x370 MB, it used to push over 1.5v for no reason at all, on idle !!and than it would drop to much less under a load. Ridiculous because I could run them at full OC on all cores at 1.36v.
Similar thing happened with 2700x and now on 3700x on this x470MB but much less, 1.4v which is still too high as when I set limit at 1.3v it still boosts to 4,37GHz on few cores with voltage a bit less than 1.3v, typically 1.297v or even less.
Expecting to be solved in next BIOS version, I set it manually to 1.3v instead of using negative offset which is not all that reliable. Idle temp is a bit higher (35 -45c) but highest temps don't go over 65c.
According to HWinfo, Core (Vid) does drop under 1.v. AMD Ryzen Balanced plan is Min 5% and 100% max with Active cooling which BTW is not for coolers or fans but for CPU cooling, something like Cool & Quiet from the past.

 

[Zenyatta]

I'm not familiar with that cooler but yes, it would be good to have such a cooler. Ryzen is sensitive to temperature and would be best to keep it under 65c for highest boost speeds,

That sounds about right. I I think I'll go through with the purchase, thanks!

I think the problem is that the X570 motherboards are juicing the voltages... Under advanced power settings in the control panel in windows (power options/change plan settings/change advanced power settings/processor power management/maximum processor state), you can adjust the maximum processor state. I changed it from 100% to 99%.

Thanks man, I'll try it out. Hopefully they patch this stuff up soon - I'd like to get the best out of it. With that in mind, I'm a bit unfamiliar with AMD overclocking, but their software makes me think just turning on auto should be enough. Thanks for the advice!

Similar thing happened with 2700x and now on 3700x on this x470MB but much less, 1.4v which is still too high as when I set limit at 1.3v it still boosts to 4,37GHz on few cores with voltage a bit less than 1.3v, typically 1.297v or even less.
Expecting to be solved in next BIOS version, I set it manually to 1.3v instead of using negative offset which is not all that reliable. Idle temp is a bit higher (35 -45c) but highest temps don't go over 65c.

Did you do that through Ryzen Master? If you did, I'm assuming it was also on auto clocking or precision boost right? I'm debating if I should just try setting it to 1.3v or trying what Jon96789 suggested. Thanks for the advice though, I might trying fiddling with both and seeing what ends up best.

 

[jon96789]

Capping the processor power management to 99% prevents the processor from going into turbo or boost mode. The CPU will be limited to 3.72GHz iso 3.8Ghz under idle conditions. When a load is encountered, the CPU will not speed up to 4.6GHz which is when the CPU overheats. The voltage remains and about 1.1v iso always pegging at 1.385 volts, even at idle.

Right now, my CPU is reading 49 degrees and tops at 80-85 degrees under load iso 95 degrees.

 

[rigg42]

A few things to know......Voltage is dynamic based on load and current draw. If just running a single core load or light background tasks the CPU will use higher voltage to achieve higher single core boost. You can trigger these boosts by using certain monitoring software. Ryzen master seems to be best for checking idle behavior without creating observer effect. Irrespective of that, boost and voltages are currently in various stages of broken depending on the agesa version in the bios and the chipset driver you are on. The MSI boards seem to have specific voltage issues as well. A heavy all core load shouldn't have more than 1.325 v present. Boost voltage can be as high 1.5v in short bursts. It's hard to monitor since these CPU's change voltage and clockspeed on the millisecond scale. Undervolting will nerf performance while clock speed will appear normal. The stock cooler is inadequate for the 3900x IMO. I have a dual tower 120 mm that struggles to cool my 3900x @ 1.2 volts full load on all cores. The boost and accompanying voltage are effected by cooling on auto settings so better cooling does affect performance.

If your CPU is at over 1.325 volts (when loaded heavily on all cores) you may want to update the bios and chipset drivers. Running more than 1.325 in this situation has the potential to kill your CPU.

My best solution was to lock my voltage at 1.2 in bios and OC each CCX using ryzen master. I actually get better single and multi core than stock doing this. This is difficult to stress test and isn't for the faint of heart. It took a lot of trial and error (ie crashes and stress tests) to dial it in. It sounds like you may be using this for professional work so I'm guessing this might not be a good solution for you.

A 360mm AIO should help a lot. The best performance option is probably this:

https://www.swiftech.com/drive-x3-aio.aspx

That is an open loop cooler that is expandable. This will require fluid changes and cleaning. If it were me I would drain the goopy died liquid it comes with and use a treated distilled water solution instead. You shouldn't need to do too much maintenance in that case.

Typical closed loop AIO coolers are maintenance "free". They won't flow anywhere near as much liquid as the above and use mixed metals in the components which can lead to galvanic corrosion. They use a liquid formulation that combats this. They are usually sealed permanently. The pump is more likely to die in this type of cooler and liquid will evaporate over time. Most use the same patented OEM design for the pump and performance differences are down to the fans and radiators. I'd pay more attention to the fans and warranty with this type of cooler.

All liquid cooling has the potential to leak. Usually this happens when the pump dies and the liquid boils inside causing the fitting and or tubing to expand. It might not happen that often but it is possible.

 

[CountMike]

That sounds about right. I I think I'll go through with the purchase, thanks!



Thanks man, I'll try it out. Hopefully they patch this stuff up soon - I'd like to get the best out of it. With that in mind, I'm a bit unfamiliar with AMD overclocking, but their software makes me think just turning on auto should be enough. Thanks for the advice!



Did you do that through Ryzen Master? If you did, I'm assuming it was also on auto clocking or precision boost right? I'm debating if I should just try setting it to 1.3v or trying what Jon96789 suggested. Thanks for the advice though, I might trying fiddling with both and seeing what ends up best.

All settings are done in BIOS, RM only for some monitoring and for rest only HWinfo.

 

[jon96789]

A couple of notes... I updated the BIOS to 1.10 and the chip set drivers to 1.8.19.0915... The voltages now fluctuate around 1.45V under load but the temps still register ~95 degrees... Even when idle, the voltage stays around 1.45 or so. When idling with CPU restricted to 99%, it drops to 1.1V and 48 degrees.

 

[mdd1963]

One is unlikely to see any Ryzen 3000, and certainly not a 3900X, running at all core max at anything near 'only' 65C...regardless of cooler. Per Debauer's testing, you will likely be getting used to and perhaps liking the low-mid 80's...

 

[jon96789]

Yeah... I never saw my 3900X go past 4.2 GHz... They say that only one core may hit 4.6GHz and the rest will be lower.

 

[rigg42]

Yeah... I never saw my 3900X go past 4.2 GHz... They say that only one core may hit 4.6GHz and the rest will be lower.

I had really good results with individual CCX overclocking on my 3900x in Ryzen Master. My 2 worst CCX's hit 4.2 stable at 1.2v. Since my first CCX is my best i get 4.4ghz on basically any single threaded work load and my primary game thread. I may have gotten a bit lucky in this respect.

On stock settings it will eventually boost to 4.55 ghz on a few cores if I let just sit there with HWI64 pinging away at 100 ms. As soon as I put a single threaded load like cinebench R15 it dropped down to 4.2 - 4.3 ghz. I gained about 8 pts in single and 170 pts in multi with the per CCX OC.

If I could cool 1.3v I could easily add another 100 -150 mhz to each CCX. I already tested it by disabling the second chiplet. I just can't cool both chiplets @ 1.3v and I don't want to spend as much as $200 on a 360 AIO and risk that might leak on my other components.

 

[jon96789]

I got my Corsair H115i RGB Platinum AIO today and installed it... Now the CPU temp hovers around 83 degrees Celsius under load, a drop of about 10-15 degrees. The cooler is relatively quiet... Well worth it...

 

[TidalWaveOne]

I recommend a Noctua Noctua NH-D15... assuming you have the room for it.

Read more about my AMD Ryzen 3900X build here:
https://www.htmlvalidator.com/CSEForum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2986