Question Consultation regarding my next system

[roieco]

Hi all,

Wanted to consult regarding my next system.

• type: desktop
• budget: up to 4300 US$
• usage: games (i like rpg games such as skyrim, dragon age inquisition, baldur's gate 3, cyberpunk 2077 etc.) and general use

my current planned build is:

• motherboard - ROG Crosshair VIII Hero (WI-FI)
• cpu - AMD Ryzen™ 9 5900X
• hard drive - os - Corsair Force MP600 PCIe NVMe M.2 2280 500GB SSD
• hard drive - data - Corsair MP400 PCIe NVMe M.2 2280 4TB SSD
• memory - G.Skill Trident Z RGB 2x16GB DDR4 3200Mhz CL16 Kit
• graphics card - Asus ROG-STRIX-RTX3070-O8G-GAMING
• and of course case, ps, cooler etc (no monitor needed)

would love to hear your opinion!

1. general opinion of my candidate build above
2. should i wait for intel to come out with their gen 11 desktop cpus?
3. should i buy all but the gpu, and wait with the gpu purchase a bit? (i currently have GTX970)

thanks a lot.

 

[geofelt]

Good to be thinking about a top end build.
Unfortunately, the 5000 series processors and the 3000 series graphics cards are largely out of stock.
I do not expect that situation to clear until first quarter next year.
At that time, 11th gen Intel rocket lake launch will be near and I would want to see what that will be all about.
I do not think Intel will lightly relinquish the top dog gaming processor to amd.
The new Inel architecture has apparently had a 19% IPC boost to rival amd 5000 series.
For your favored game types, the single thread processor performance is the most important metric.
ryzen 5000 is a good pick there.
Not so much for the number of threads.
8 should be enough unless you play multiplayer with many participants.

Do you have a monitor now?
What resolution will you be playing at?
The higher the resolution, the more important the graphics card becomes, compared to the processor.
If you are looking at gaming on a 4k monitor, a 3080 class card will be in order.
If you have the itch to buy something now, buy a large widescreen monitor with 4k resolution.
You will get a better idea of what it takes to run it.
A case is fun to shop for, and a top quality psu in the 750-850w range would be ok to buy now.

Your list included ssd devices, not hard drives.
That is very good.

I think I would be looking at Samsung or Intel for solid ssd devices.
They can do a better job of quality and integration.
Apparently many ssd makers source their controllers and nand chips elsewhere.
What is initially benchmarked may not be what you get even with the same part number.
The ssd is just too important to go cheap.
Ditto on power supplies.

 

[neojack]

thats a solid setup here

since your budget is high, consider getting a 3600 C16 kit
ryzen 2 and 3 internal communication between cores is tied to ram speed. up to 3733 mhz

so the best ram is a kit approaching this value at the lowest CAS possible.


As for the SSD, get a crucial or samsung. no need for the most expensive ones either. the difference between the lasted and greatest and mainstream SSDs are not perceptible by humans (like charging a file in 0,2 s instead of 0,1s technically the second one is twice as faster but who cares)

as for the case, im a big fan of the Lian Li's LanCool II . just get a pack of 5 fans in bulk on amazon. oh and fan splitters to plug and control everything from your motherboard

 

[roieco]

thank you for your replies and insight!

1. i have a good 4k monitor. does that change your thoughts regarding the gpu? would RTX3070 not cut it?
2. i can get the cpu now but the gpu is nowhere to be seen. that's why i brought up the option to buy all but the gpu, in hopes that once its available RTX3080 may be reasonably priced. do you still think i should wait for rocket lake ?
3. regarding the ssd
   1. is Corsair a bad choice?
   2. i picked a fast one for OS and a large one (i need ~4tb) for data. would you recommend just getting one large one for both?
   3. i couldn't find any other M.2 NVMe that were 4tb and reasonably priced. do you know of any?
4. I added my current system in my signature as reference

 

[geofelt]

1. The 3080 reviews I have read say that is what you need for 4k gaming.
At $700 MSRP, that is a good deal.
But, you will have to wait for supply to open up.

2. If you have a need now, go ahead and buy now.
It looks like you need it.
But, if you have the itch to spend now, You can buy a case, psu and ssd now.
They are not likely to change much in the next few months.

If you buy now, ryzen 5000 series looks very good.
My only caveat is that new products sometimes take a couple of months in the field to get minor glitches worked out.

If gtx970 will serve for a while, hang on.
If you must buy a stronger gpu, consider used. You can likely resell it reasonably later.
Or, buy a EVGA card and plan on using their 90 day free trade up option.
But, there is no guarantee that a 3000 series card will be available by then.

3. Truth is that all ssd devices perform mostly alike.
But quality does matter. ssd prices are constantly getting better.
I think I would buy a 2tb samsung 970 evo plus for windows and leave it be until you actually need more space.

What kind of data storage do you need?
If it is large sequential files such as videos, buy a HDD.
The cost per gb is less and sequential access speeds are good.
If you want a ssd for bulk storage, the Samsung 870 QVO 2.5" comes in up to 8tb sizes.

 

[roieco]

thanks @geofelt

I think you're right - it could be better to get a larger (~2tb) m.2 drive for os and programs/games and a regular ssd for storage.
the data storage ssd shall be used mostly for movies, backups etc. but also for some video editing and recording.

i shall muster my patience and wait for January-ish to see if anything changes and then come back to this thread for more brainstorming and advice

thanks all!

 

[roieco]

CES 2021: Intel Announces 11th Gen Rocket Lake-S Desktop Processors - PC Perspective

CES 2021: Intel Announces 11th Gen Rocket Lake-S Desktop Processors The new 11th Gen Core desktop processors are official, and they feature new architecture

pcper.com

so do we all agree that AMD is still the right way to go, plus rtx 3070/80?

thanks in advance.

 

[Why_Me]

CES 2021: Intel Announces 11th Gen Rocket Lake-S Desktop Processors - PC Perspective

CES 2021: Intel Announces 11th Gen Rocket Lake-S Desktop Processors The new 11th Gen Core desktop processors are official, and they feature new architecture

pcper.com

so do we all agree that AMD is still the right way to go, plus rtx 3070/80?

thanks in advance.

RTX 3080 for 4K.

https://www.newegg.com/seagate-firecuda-520-2tb/p/N82E16820248109 <--- PCIe 4

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B082VTVP51/ref=sspa_dk_detail_6 <---HS

https://www.newegg.com/western-digital-blue-4tb/p/N82E16820250121 <--- storage SSD

https://www.amazon.com/Crucial-Ballistix-Desktop-Gaming-BL2K16G36C16U4B/dp/B083TRXZ98 <--- CL16

 

[geofelt]

CES 2021: Intel Announces 11th Gen Rocket Lake-S Desktop Processors - PC Perspective

CES 2021: Intel Announces 11th Gen Rocket Lake-S Desktop Processors The new 11th Gen Core desktop processors are official, and they feature new architecture

pcper.com

so do we all agree that AMD is still the right way to go, plus rtx 3070/80?

thanks in advance.

Not necessarily.
It would appear that the upcoming rocket lake will be at least as good and perhaps better than amd for gaming.
Unless you have an urgent need, I would wait a bit and see.
Then, also, there will be the issue of availability.
Depending on where you are, 5000 series amd processors are hard to buy.
Do not support the scalpers and pay 2x the list price.

Ditto on 3000 series grapics cards.

On storage, a HDD will be perfectly adequate for bulk sequential storage such as videos and backups. No need to pay more per gb for such.

HDD is also very good for external backup.

 

[roieco]

Thanks both!

 

[roieco]

On storage, a HDD will be perfectly adequate for bulk sequential storage such as videos and backups. No need to pay more per gb for such.

HDD is also very good for external backup.

wouldn't you say though that SSD is more reliable and predictable?
currently i use a raid 5 array with HDDs and over time multiple drives have failed and my data was saved due to the raid. in my new setup i wanted to avoid having to use raid, and so i thoug that using a SSD would allow me to get similar levels of reliability.

I have an automatic and quite inclusive backup, but nothing beats the drive just not failing

 

[roieco]

hi all,

so Intel's gen11 is out, and i need your advice.
this is my planned build:

• motherboard - ASUS ROG STRIX Z590-E GAMING WIFI
• cpu - Intel tray cpu core i7-11700K 3.6GHz 16MB (better single threat performance than i9)
• hard drive - os - SAMSUNG SSD 2TB 980 PRO M.2 NVMe MZ- V8P2T0BW
• hard drive - data - SAMSUNG 2.5" SSD 4TB EVO870 MZ-77E4T0B
• memory - G.Skill Trident Z RGB 2x16GB DDR4 3200Mhz CL16 Kit
• graphics card - Asus ROG-STRIX-RTX3080 - to be bought later when available
• and of course case, ps, cooler etc (no monitor needed)

my questions are:

1. any final thoughts regarding the build?
2. for case, i'm not sure whether to get Corsair 4000D AIRFLOW or PHANTEKS ECLIPSE P600S PH-EC600PSC BK01. any thoughts/considerations/advice?

thanks!

 

[geofelt]

No doubt that a ssd with no moving parts is going to be the most reliable.
The only negative is the cost per gb.
Puget systems tracks the reliability of their units, here is a list of articles:
=Hardware%20Reliability]https://www.pugetsystems.com/all_articles.php?filter[]=Hardware%20Reliability

On your build, buy the case that visually appeals to you the most.
They both are equally good.
FWIW, I recently installed a 11700K with a noctua NH-D15s cooler.
I have had absolutely no heat issues, even with OCCT and cpu-Z stress tests.

 

[roieco]

okay so i went full crazy and ordered.

here's the full list of what i got:

• motherboard - ASUS ROG STRIX Z590-E GAMING WIFI
• cpu - Intel tray cpu core i7-11700K 3.6GHz 16MB
• hard drive - os - SAMSUNG SSD 2TB 980 PRO M.2 NVMe MZ- V8P2T0BW
• hard drive - data - SAMSUNG 2.5" SSD 4TB EVO870 MZ-77E4T0B
• memory - G.Skill Trident Z RGB 2x16GB DDR4 4000Mhz CL17 Kit
• graphics card - MSI GeForce RTX™ 3080 GAMING Z TRIO 10G
• cpu cooler - antec neptune 240 argb liquid cooler
• case - PHANTEKS ECLIPSE P600S PH-EC600PSC BK01
• PS - GP-P750GM 80+ GOLD Full Modular

as always, would love to hear your feedback.
thanks a lot!

 

[geofelt]

A very good top end build.
Love all the parts, except:
A 240mm aio would not be my choice when a top twin tower air cooler will do the job equally well.
It will cost less, but that is obviously not a concern to you.
But aio coolers have a limited lifetime because of the mechanical pump and eventual air intrusion.
They are noisier and are a catch 22 for installing.
Do you mount the radiator as intake to get the best cpu cooling at the expense of hot air to cool the graphics card and motherboard?
Or do you mount it as exhaust at the expense of less cpu cooling.
Lastly, while uncommon, liquid coolers sometimes leak with disastrous consequences to the rest of the parts.
FWIW, I have no temperature issues with a I7-11700K and a noctua NH-D15s.
A simple cpu-Z stress test gives about 70c. max temperatures.

 

[roieco]

thanks @geofelt !

the reason i preferred liquid cooling is different. i was worried that air coolers may interfere with memory installation due to size.
following your advice, i've spoken to the store and they agreed to send me also the ZALMAN CNPS20X 140mm RGB to see whether it fits and only charge me for the cooler i'll decide to keep.

much appreciated.

 

[geofelt]

thanks @geofelt !

the reason i preferred liquid cooling is different. i was worried that air coolers may interfere with memory installation due to size.
following your advice, i've spoken to the store and they agreed to send me also the ZALMAN CNPS20X 140mm RGB to see whether it fits and only charge me for the cooler i'll decide to keep.

much appreciated.

Looks to me like you may have a problem with the trident Z heat spreaders.
I used trident Z with a noctua NH-D15s(Not the NH-D15) which has plenty of ram clearance.
I might ask for one of those instead.

 

[--SID--]

okay so i went full crazy and ordered.

here's the full list of what i got:

• motherboard - ASUS ROG STRIX Z590-E GAMING WIFI
• cpu - Intel tray cpu core i7-11700K 3.6GHz 16MB
• hard drive - os - SAMSUNG SSD 2TB 980 PRO M.2 NVMe MZ- V8P2T0BW
• hard drive - data - SAMSUNG 2.5" SSD 4TB EVO870 MZ-77E4T0B
• memory - G.Skill Trident Z RGB 2x16GB DDR4 4000Mhz CL17 Kit
• graphics card - MSI GeForce RTX™ 3080 GAMING Z TRIO 10G
• cpu cooler - antec neptune 240 argb liquid cooler
• case - PHANTEKS ECLIPSE P600S PH-EC600PSC BK01
• PS - GP-P750GM 80+ GOLD Full Modular

as always, would love to hear your feedback.
thanks a lot!

Are you sure you want to use that psu in a 4000 bucks rig? https://www.techpowerup.com/review/gigabyte-gp-p750gm-750-w/

 

[roieco]

Are you sure you want to use that psu in a 4000 bucks rig? https://www.techpowerup.com/review/gigabyte-gp-p750gm-750-w/

thank you for this @--SID-- ! after the one you shared i found a ton of other negative reviews.
the PS was the one thing i didn't research as i assumed Gigabyte would be a safe bet. you live and learn i guess

i've replaced it with Corsair 750W 80+ Gold RM750x

weird that Gigabyte would release something like that.

 

[roieco]

hey all,

I've received, assembled and installed my new rig.
thank you all for your keen eyes, smart insights and kind advice!

for reference I'm adding here the final build I bought along with some comments and benchmark results.

final build:

• motherboard - ASUS ROG STRIX Z590-E GAMING WIFI
• cpu - Intel tray cpu core i7-11700K 3.6GHz 16MB
• hard drive - os - SAMSUNG SSD 2TB 980 PRO M.2 NVMe MZ- V8P2T0BW
• hard drive - data - SAMSUNG 2.5" SSD 4TB EVO870 MZ-77E4T0B
• memory - G.Skill Trident Z RGB 2x16GB DDR4 4000Mhz CL17 Kit
• graphics card - MSI GeForce RTX™ 3080 GAMING Z TRIO 10G
• cpu cooler - antec neptune 240 argb liquid cooler
• case - PHANTEKS ECLIPSE P600S PH-EC600PSTG_AG01
• PS - Corsair 750W 80+ Gold RM750x

a few notes:

• if you're going to use a riser cable with this build, make sure it supports pci4. i got frustrated out of my mind trying to figure out the random freezes and restarts that i ended up taking the whole rig apart and re assembling it thinking that i may have done something wrong. finally when i tuned the pcie4 gfx slot to pci3 via the bios the freezes disappeared. i then took out the riser cable and installed the gfx card in its slot (with all the sagging prevention irons), adjusted the slot back to pci4 and all is well.
• weird issue: the nic works fine with every switch in my house except the router's built in switch. my old computer works fine with the same port and the same cable (connects at 1gbpx) while the new rig takes a very long time to connect and then only connects at 10 mbps. i ended connecting the new rig through another switch.
• i ended up choosing the water cooling solution over the air cooler as the large air cooler just felt too cumbersome in my box, so to each their own on this one.
• PHANTEKS ECLIPSE P600S was a joy to build in imo. everything about it feels premium.

adding an image of the build and a few initial benchmark results (w. no overclocking):

Looks:

Single Thread:

Multi Threads:

Disks:

special thanks:
- @--SID-- , @geofelt , @Why_Me , @neojack

 

[roieco]

So after 3 months using the new system I thought it may be helpful to post some usage notes and thoughts for the benefit of others contemplating their next rig.

The new system has exceeded my expectations so far, its value surpassing the sum of its components, it would seem.
It runs everything smoothly on top graphics settings, no compromises.
Please keep in mind that I mainly play RPG games (Valhalla, Cyberpunk etc.) on a 60hz monitor, so if you like to play FPS games on 144hz your experience may vary.

Thank you to everyone that offered kind words and advice.

-R