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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Hello, All!
There is a small phrase in a few places in Comprehensive Rules (moving
objects, interaction of replacement effects, etc.):
"object's controller-or its owner if it has no controller-"
Is that note there specifically for multiplayer? I can't imagine an
object with owner but no controller in a duel...

Regards,
Arkady.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

"Arkady Zilberberg" <arkadyz1@yahoo.com> writes:
> There is a small phrase in a few places in Comprehensive Rules (moving
> objects, interaction of replacement effects, etc.):
> "object's controller-or its owner if it has no controller-"
> Is that note there specifically for multiplayer? I can't imagine an
> object with owner but no controller in a duel...

The only objects with controllers are permanents and spells. Cards
other places (graveyard, hand, RFG, etc...) only have owners.

And keep on reading those rules... There's a lot of stuff in there.

--
Peter C.
"Puns are the lowest form of humor.... Now slapstick, that's intelligent!"
-- tnt
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Arkady Zilberberg wrote:

> Hello, All!
> There is a small phrase in a few places in Comprehensive Rules (moving
> objects, interaction of replacement effects, etc.):
> "object's controller-or its owner if it has no controller-"
> Is that note there specifically for multiplayer? I can't imagine an
> object with owner but no controller in a duel...
>
Only permanents in play have a controller.
--
Christopher Mattern

"Which one you figure tracked us?"
"The ugly one, sir."
"...Could you be more specific?"
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Peter Cooper Jr. wrote:

> "Arkady Zilberberg" <arkadyz1@yahoo.com> writes:
>> There is a small phrase in a few places in Comprehensive Rules (moving
>> objects, interaction of replacement effects, etc.):
>> "object's controller-or its owner if it has no controller-"
>> Is that note there specifically for multiplayer? I can't imagine an
>> object with owner but no controller in a duel...
>
> The only objects with controllers are permanents and spells. Cards
> other places (graveyard, hand, RFG, etc...) only have owners.
>
> And keep on reading those rules... There's a lot of stuff in there.
>

And spells on the stack, right. Permanents in play and spells on
the stack.
--
Christopher Mattern

"Which one you figure tracked us?"
"The ugly one, sir."
"...Could you be more specific?"
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Arkady Zilberberg <arkadyz1@yahoo.com> wrote:
>There is a small phrase in a few places in Comprehensive Rules (moving
>objects, interaction of replacement effects, etc.):
>"object's controller-or its owner if it has no controller-"
>Is that note there specifically for multiplayer? I can't imagine an
>object with owner but no controller in a duel...

There are usually a great many such.

Objects have controllers:
in play
on the stack

Objects in other zones - a card in one's hand, for example - have no
controller, though they have an owner in any zone (and outside the game as
well, though the definition of 'owner' changes a bit there).

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Peter Cooper Jr. <pete@cooper.homedns.org> wrote:
>"Arkady Zilberberg" <arkadyz1@yahoo.com> writes:
>> There is a small phrase in a few places in Comprehensive Rules (moving
>> objects, interaction of replacement effects, etc.):
>> "object's controller-or its owner if it has no controller-"
>> Is that note there specifically for multiplayer? I can't imagine an
>> object with owner but no controller in a duel...
>
>The only objects with controllers are permanents and spells.

There's at least one other class of objects that have controllers. (You'd think
two, but nobody appears to have a -need- to control the other Obvious Answer.)

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Chris Mattern <matternc@comcast.net> wrote:
>Arkady Zilberberg wrote:
>> There is a small phrase in a few places in Comprehensive Rules (moving
>> objects, interaction of replacement effects, etc.):
>> "object's controller-or its owner if it has no controller-"
>> Is that note there specifically for multiplayer? I can't imagine an
>> object with owner but no controller in a duel...
>
>Only permanents in play have a controller.

Not actually true. You're -thinking- along the right lines, but you missed
a couple classes of them.

Dave "217.6c lists them, among other places" DeLaney
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

"Risser Family" <news@nospam.com> writes:
> "David DeLaney" <dbd@gatekeeper.vic.com> wrote...
>> Peter Cooper Jr. <pete@cooper.homedns.org> wrote:
>> >The only objects with controllers are permanents and spells.
>>
>> There's at least one other class of objects that have
>> controllers. (You'd think two, but nobody appears to have a -need-
>> to control the other Obvious Answer.)
>
> I give.
> Is it turns? Because Mind Screwer (or whatever it's called, mine is
> blank at the moment. oh yeah: Mindslaver) talks about controlling
> target player's next turn.

I don't think that's what David had in mind, but it might be what he
called the other Obvious Answer.

Take a closer look at David DeLaney's other answers. The only things
that have controllers are objects in play and on the stack. And there
are things on the stack besides permanents and spells...

See 217.6c if you're stuck for a big hint.

--
Peter C.
The generation of random numbers is too important to be left to chance.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

I give.
Is it turns? Because Mind Screwer (or whatever it's called, mine is blank
at the moment. oh yeah: Mindslaver) talks about controlling target player's
next turn.
Peter


"David DeLaney" <dbd@gatekeeper.vic.com> wrote in message
news:slrncb5bhi.c7m.dbd@gatekeeper.vic.com...
> Peter Cooper Jr. <pete@cooper.homedns.org> wrote:
> >"Arkady Zilberberg" <arkadyz1@yahoo.com> writes:
> >> There is a small phrase in a few places in Comprehensive Rules (moving
> >> objects, interaction of replacement effects, etc.):
> >> "object's controller-or its owner if it has no controller-"
> >> Is that note there specifically for multiplayer? I can't imagine an
> >> object with owner but no controller in a duel...
> >
> >The only objects with controllers are permanents and spells.
>
> There's at least one other class of objects that have controllers. (You'd
think
> two, but nobody appears to have a -need- to control the other Obvious
Answer.)
>
> Dave
> --
> \/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the
flower
> It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone
to see
> Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET
VRbeable<BLINK>
> http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all
CAPS! --K.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

dbd@gatekeeper.vic.com (David DeLaney) wrote in message news:<slrncb5bg0.c7m.dbd@gatekeeper.vic.com>...
> Arkady Zilberberg <arkadyz1@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >There is a small phrase in a few places in Comprehensive Rules (moving
> >objects, interaction of replacement effects, etc.):
> >"object's controller-or its owner if it has no controller-"
> >Is that note there specifically for multiplayer? I can't imagine an
> >object with owner but no controller in a duel...
>
> There are usually a great many such.
>
> Objects have controllers:
> in play
> on the stack
>
> Objects in other zones - a card in one's hand, for example - have no
> controller, though they have an owner in any zone (and outside the game as
> well, though the definition of 'owner' changes a bit there).
>
> Dave

What about Shared Fate? Won't each player have exclusive control of
cards in the RFG zone that are owned by the other player?
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

dancle16@yahoo.com (Daniel Testa) writes:
> dbd@gatekeeper.vic.com (David DeLaney) wrote:
>> Objects have controllers:
>> in play
>> on the stack
>>
>> Objects in other zones - a card in one's hand, for example - have no
>> controller, though they have an owner in any zone (and outside the game as
>> well, though the definition of 'owner' changes a bit there).
>
> What about Shared Fate? Won't each player have exclusive control of
> cards in the RFG zone that are owned by the other player?

Well, let's look at the card:

,----[ Oracle ]
| Shared Fate
| {4}{U}
| Enchantment
| If a player would draw a card, that player removes the top card of
| an opponent's library from the game face down instead.
| Each player may look at and play cards he or she removed from the
| game with Shared Fate as though they were in his or her hand.
`----

Nothing about "control" there. Each player just can look at and play
those cards. While you might want to think of them as only usable by
one player, they aren't under anyone's "control" in the Magic use of
that word.

Often, English words have very specific meanings in Magic. "Control"
is one of them.

--
Peter C.
"I was gratified to be able to answer promptly, and I did. I said I
didn't know."
-- Mark Twain, "Life on the Mississippi"
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Risser Family <news@nospam.com> wrote:
>"David DeLaney" <dbd@gatekeeper.vic.com> wrote in message
>> Peter Cooper Jr. <pete@cooper.homedns.org> wrote:
>> There's at least one other class of objects that have controllers. (You'd
>think
>> two, but nobody appears to have a -need- to control the other Obvious
>Answer.)
>>

>I give.
>Is it turns? Because Mind Screwer (or whatever it's called, mine is blank
>at the moment. oh yeah: Mindslaver) talks about controlling target player's
>next turn.
>Peter

No; turns aren't technically "objects".

Activated/triggered abilities on the stack have controllers.

(Combat damage doesn't, it appears, and doesn't seem to have a need for a
controller either.)

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Daniel Testa <dancle16@yahoo.com> wrote:
>dbd@gatekeeper.vic.com (David DeLaney) wrote:
>> Objects have controllers:
>> in play
>> on the stack
>>
>> Objects in other zones - a card in one's hand, for example - have no
>> controller, though they have an owner in any zone (and outside the game as
>> well, though the definition of 'owner' changes a bit there).
>
>What about Shared Fate? Won't each player have exclusive control of
>cards in the RFG zone that are owned by the other player?

Nope. Nobody controls cards that are in the RFG zone at all; they only have an
owner.

If you cast a +spell+ through Shared Fate which the other guy owns, then you
will control that spell on the stack. But you are not the controller of cards
removed from the other guy's deck by Shared Fate while they're in the RFG zone,
because those don't have a controller, only an owner.

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
 
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