# Contraband market

G

#### Guest

##### Guest

It seems to be clear, that there are only a few who are happy about the
current system. The main arguments are that there are not enough
risks/penalties. So one can either change the current system or add some
corrections.

(A) Corrections

Let the host evaluate the needed number of cities to produce the revenue and
add the growth penalty this number of cities would inflict. This would be a
host.exe change.

Let (a part of) the money (or gain/loss) go to the galactic bank. This would
also give the COM a boost as people say the last changes were to hard.

(B) Change the system

The current system calculates the price somehow like

price(type, turn)= { price(type,0) * a^[turn-1] + price(type,oo) * ( 1 -
a^[turn-1]) } * Randomfactor

where price(type,0) = 2 + D and price(type,oo)= 2+ 4*D with

D=CWF(type)/"CWF sum of all" * (1+ColAll/1,000,000,000)

a ist an empirical parameter somewhere about 0.95

So the price starts at some initial value price(type,0) and goes to its
asymptotic price(type,oo)

Types with a high race contraband want factor sum start at high values
(assuming the same starting population for all) and types which profits most
from race gowth will be the leading types later while pressing down other
types.

So in the beginning one can calculate to check if one shall buy and later
when these equations begin to fail because the don't hold the whole story
one can estimate the mean by graphical methods. So there is no risk at all
and those who are willing and able to use excel can trade even at the start
effectively with small affords.

The only risks come from singular events like the immediate and unexpected
exodus of a player. Which are rare events and most of the time trading is a
fine thing. And a second weakness is that for almost all types there is no
reason to hold a stockpile of them. So most of the time players want to get
rid of them and to take the money. But the kerria gives a hint in which
direction it could go.

Illegal books - somehow gives tech level and exotic tech boost
VR-6x Holochips - increases starting expirience of ships
Stim-Bright Pills - increases native (up to 4% total) and colonists (up to
7,5% total) growth
Grecken Blood Wine - makes bovinoids and avians drunken and gives them a
supply/mc boost
Emotion Chips - let bots and borgs works in camp and mines
Handguns - increases ground combat combat
Illegal Music CDs - increases happiness of colonists and natives
Kerria Crystal Artifacts - gathering gipsodal, bot hg training
Lerchin Spices - gathering amorhpous, increases base scanner range and if
docked in a pod to a ship the ship scanner range
Alpha Wave Floggers - increases the starting skill of ships
Vaggen War Hounds - reduces labour camp rioting, fighting against cups,bugs
and amorphous and crime
Repterrian Psi - Geese - gathering reptilians and increase their mining rate

Maybe also the happiness drop when selling cb to other races should be
increased.
The contra should be used up. So there would be a steady need of them and we
had a real demand on them.

In the cb screen for each type one can choose if one wants to trade limited
or unlimited. In the former case one can type in the limit price. For a sell
that would mean that one wants sell at this or higher prices and vice versa
for a buy. In the unlimited case the order shall be executed no matter at
which price.

In addtion to the orders or the real players host adds a sufficient number
of orders for each type of "virtual" agents. The underlying system for this
has to be choosen carefully.

Then each turn the host calculates the price for each type so that the most
sum of Price*kT of this type can be reached.

Well, enough for today...

GFM GToeroe

G

#### Guest

##### Guest

> Illegal books - somehow gives tech level and exotic tech boost
> VR-6x Holochips - increases starting expirience of ships
> Stim-Bright Pills - increases native (up to 4% total) and colonists
(up to
> 7,5% total) growth
> Grecken Blood Wine - makes bovinoids and avians drunken and gives
them a
> supply/mc boost
> Emotion Chips - let bots and borgs works in camp and mines
> Handguns - increases ground combat combat
> Illegal Music CDs - increases happiness of colonists and natives
> Kerria Crystal Artifacts - gathering gipsodal, bot hg training
> Lerchin Spices - gathering amorhpous, increases base scanner range
and if
> docked in a pod to a ship the ship scanner range
> Alpha Wave Floggers - increases the starting skill of ships
> Vaggen War Hounds - reduces labour camp rioting, fighting against
cups,bugs
> and amorphous and crime
> Repterrian Psi - Geese - gathering reptilians and increase their
mining rate

Some of these ideas are nice, and certainly fun! This would make the
game a great deal more complicated though - many more options to
consider. Nonetheless, in principle I like it. Some of the ideas above
inherently make sense, but would topple some game balance issues, like
Emotion Chips making Robots and Cyborgs work in labor camps. Very funny
though !

#### Loki

##### Distinguished

I simply like your ideas there Gabor.

#### Doc

##### Distinguished

Nice Idea GFM GToeroe,

However, There would seem to be a lot of programming required for Tim
to implement this, so I cannot see it all getting implemented, fully
anyway.

I am just going to throw this idea out there to see what you think. It
goes along the same idea "There needs to be some demand in the game
for Contraband other than just to sell it" AND "The Contraband
price is too easy to predict, if you spent a little time at it"

Another IDEA: (But not as much fun)
Have the growth rate of a race linked to their contraband likes.

How it would work:
If a race has a like for a certain contraband at 100, then that race
needs to have 1kt of that contraband for every 10,000 Colonists to
maintain top Population Growth.
If a race has a like for a certain contraband at 60, then that race
needs to have 1kt of that contraband for every 14,000 Colonists to
maintain top Population Growth.
For more of the above examples see that table at the end of the post.

Now the Contraband price can be linked into this. If a base has a high
population and low contraband availability to fill the Colonists likes
requirements then the Price of that Contraband will raise because
demand is greater than supply (and population growth will be lowered).
If a base has a low population and high contraband availability to fill
the colonists likes then that Contraband Price will fall because supply
is greater than demand (and the population growth will increase i.e.
"Grovy Love Baby!!!").
The culmative effect of all those raises and falls, across all races,
across all bases, would then effect the overall price of that
Contraband. This would be a much harder thing to predict and more
reflective of the general populations needs, especially if Tim adds in
a random Tim-continuum desire value for all Contraband likes which the
culmative effect is added to.

Effect on the Game:
Some people may think that they can take advantage of this by starving
their race of their favorite Contraband to increase the price, but in
the long term this reduces their our population growth potential as the
Contraband increases in price and it is harder for themselves to
purchase.

Also if your enemy likes the same Contraband Stuff as you, then they
could Ground Assult you base to increase their holding of that
Contraband i.e. Drug Wars.

Like Needs 1kt Per X Colonists
199 100
190 1000
170 3000
150 5000
130 7000
110 9000
100 10000
90 11000
70 13000
50 15000
30 17000
10 19000
1 19900
0 Not Applicable

G

#### Guest

##### Guest

"Gabor Törö" <gfmgt@arcor.de> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:d2f8un\$ot9\$04\$1@news.t-online.com...
> It seems to be clear, that there are only a few who are happy about the
> current system. The main arguments are that there are not enough
> risks/penalties. So one can either change the current system or add some
> corrections.

> D=25*CWF(type)/"CWF sum of all" * (1+ColAll/1,000,000,000)
^^^
typo...

G

#### Guest

##### Guest

Gabor Törö wrote:
> It seems to be clear, that there are only a few who are happy about the
> current system. The main arguments are that there are not enough
> risks/penalties. So one can either change the current system or add some
> corrections.
>
> (A) Corrections
>
> Let the host evaluate the needed number of cities to produce the revenue and
> add the growth penalty this number of cities would inflict. This would be a
> host.exe change.
>
> Let (a part of) the money (or gain/loss) go to the galactic bank. This would
> also give the COM a boost as people say the last changes were to hard.

Nice idea, depending on the amount this effectively could stop the
dampen the growth of your mcs you can have by reinvesting the money.

> (B) Change the system
>
> The current system calculates the price somehow like
>
> price(type, turn)= { price(type,0) * a^[turn-1] + price(type,oo) * ( 1 -
> a^[turn-1]) } * Randomfactor
>
> where price(type,0) = 2 + D and price(type,oo)= 2+ 4*D with
>
> D=CWF(type)/"CWF sum of all" * (1+ColAll/1,000,000,000)
>
> a ist an empirical parameter somewhere about 0.95
>
> So the price starts at some initial value price(type,0) and goes to its
> asymptotic price(type,oo)
>
> Types with a high race contraband want factor sum start at high values
> (assuming the same starting population for all) and types which profits most
> from race gowth will be the leading types later while pressing down other
> types.
>
> So in the beginning one can calculate to check if one shall buy and later
> when these equations begin to fail because the don't hold the whole story
> one can estimate the mean by graphical methods. So there is no risk at all
> and those who are willing and able to use excel can trade even at the start
> effectively with small affords.

Is there a comfortable excel sheet out there (Something like your ground
combat sheet)?
I would like something where you can choose the number and type of races
etc. Well perhaps I'll do something myself...

> The only risks come from singular events like the immediate and unexpected
> exodus of a player. Which are rare events and most of the time trading is a
> fine thing. And a second weakness is that for almost all types there is no
> reason to hold a stockpile of them. So most of the time players want to get
> rid of them and to take the money. But the kerria gives a hint in which
> direction it could go.

> Illegal books - somehow gives tech level and exotic tech boost
Hmm, how much would be needed and would this boost be permanent?
Perhaps it could lower the maintenance price for exotics or something
like that.

> VR-6x Holochips - increases starting expirience of ships
ok

> Stim-Bright Pills - increases native (up to 4% total) and colonists (up to
> 7,5% total) growth
Hmm I like those blue pills

> Grecken Blood Wine - makes bovinoids and avians drunken and gives them a
> supply/mc boost
"I don't think you should drink that - It looks bad for you!"
"Nonsense! It makes me feel great, smarter, more aggressive...."
Aaah whatever

> Emotion Chips - let bots and borgs works in camp and mines
Nice idea, but I'd like something similar for the Solorians too.
(Somehow you should get something out of these guys).

> Handguns - increases ground combat combat
Reminds me of the suggestion of using med units for less losses in gc.
Perhaps this could be used for hg training of "normal" races too?
Or it could increase your tc rates.

> Illegal Music CDs - increases happiness of colonists and natives
Perhaps introduce something like a RIAC (Recording Industry Association
of the Galaxy), too, pursuing all those criminals who lower their income ...

> Kerria Crystal Artifacts - gathering gipsodal, bot hg training
nice as it is.

> Lerchin Spices - gathering amorhpous, increases base scanner range and if
> docked in a pod to a ship the ship scanner range
Would fit. Like it.

> Alpha Wave Floggers - increases the starting skill of ships
ok

> Vaggen War Hounds - reduces labour camp rioting, fighting against cups,bugs
> and amorphous and crime
ok

> Repterrian Psi - Geese - gathering reptilians and increase their mining rate
ok

Those effects should imho depend on the number of colonists/natives in
a base (depending on the effect) - Saying you need x Stim-Bright Pills
for each y colonists to increase their growth at z%...

> Maybe also the happiness drop when selling cb to other races should be
> increased.

Think so, too. But the oppinions differ on this.

> The contra should be used up. So there would be a steady need of them and we
> had a real demand on them.
This is a *real* good suggestion I think. Although it would hurt the
Privs with their contra-hoarding...

> In the cb screen for each type one can choose if one wants to trade limited
> or unlimited. In the former case one can type in the limit price. For a sell
> that would mean that one wants sell at this or higher prices and vice versa
> for a buy. In the unlimited case the order shall be executed no matter at
> which price.

It would also be nice if this setting would be saved for later turns.

>
> In addtion to the orders or the real players host adds a sufficient number
> of orders for each type of "virtual" agents. The underlying system for this
> has to be choosen carefully.
>
> Then each turn the host calculates the price for each type so that the most
> sum of Price*kT of this type can be reached.
>
> Well, enough for today...
>
> GFM GToeroe

Great ideas Gabor!

Jochen
>

G

#### Guest

##### Guest

Black Jack wrote:
>> Illegal Music CDs - increases happiness of colonists and natives
>
> Perhaps introduce something like a RIAC (Recording Industry Association
> of the Galaxy), too, pursuing all those criminals who lower their income
> ...

United Enforcement Authority
RIAG Class Strikeship
-> Illegal Music CD Lockdown

G

#### Guest

##### Guest

"Lord Owl" <lord.owl@gmx.de> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
>
> > Illegal books - somehow gives tech level and exotic tech boost
> > VR-6x Holochips - increases starting expirience of ships
> > Stim-Bright Pills - increases native (up to 4% total) and colonists
> (up to
> > 7,5% total) growth
> > Grecken Blood Wine - makes bovinoids and avians drunken and gives
> them a
> > supply/mc boost
> > Emotion Chips - let bots and borgs works in camp and mines
> > Handguns - increases ground combat combat
> > Illegal Music CDs - increases happiness of colonists and natives
> > Kerria Crystal Artifacts - gathering gipsodal, bot hg training
> > Lerchin Spices - gathering amorhpous, increases base scanner range
> and if
> > docked in a pod to a ship the ship scanner range
> > Alpha Wave Floggers - increases the starting skill of ships
> > Vaggen War Hounds - reduces labour camp rioting, fighting against
> cups,bugs
> > and amorphous and crime
> > Repterrian Psi - Geese - gathering reptilians and increase their
> mining rate
>

> inherently make sense, but would topple some game balance issues, like
> Emotion Chips making Robots and Cyborgs work in labor camps. Very funny
> though !

Well if a Stormers hat Bot prisoners then he needs a steady stream of
Emotion chips as they are used up. Because after a while they are burned out
because they were not designed for artificial and cybernetical life forms.
And if the stormer wants to ensure to get this emotion chips for sure then
he either has to set sufficient high limited or umlimited orders and pay for
it. And then other can sell their emotion chips at higher prices. So if
rumors breaking out that Bot or Borg prisoners were taken by a labour camp
race then other began to buy emotion chips. Rebels and Aczannies stop
selling their chips and offer them directly.

That is how it works: If buy them to get an advantage then others can sell
it with revenue so this system re-balance itself.

GFM GToeroe

#### Loki

##### Distinguished

Hi Black Jack!

> > Emotion Chips - let bots and borgs works in camp and mines

> Nice idea, but I'd like something similar for the Solorians too.
> (Somehow you should get something out of these guys).

It seems to be a rather large misunderstanding that everyone thinks
Solarians won't work in labour camps. They do.

Loki