Cooler Master Announces a $1K PSU, The MasterWatt Maker 1200 MIJ

[Guest]

The project lasted for quite long and its main purpose was to build the best PSU ever. Today the wait is finally over since CM announced the MasterWatt Maker 1200 MIJ, a PSU which was designed and manufactured in Japan by Murata Manufacturing.

Cooler Master Announces a $1K PSU, The MasterWatt Maker 1200 MIJ : Read more

 

[WRXSTIGuy]

I don't like products like these because it will give an excuse to other manufacturers to follow suit. Next thing you know, a decent 1000W power supply now costs $500+. This happened in the digital audio player market. About 10 years ago a good sounding digital player cost $300 and was the flagship product. Now the flagship product from the same company is $1600.

 

[dstarr3]

Now that 3- and 4-way SLI is on the way out, how many people are really going to need 1200W PSUs anymore?

 

[falchard]

Average packaging for a $300 PSU with a $1000 price tag.

 

[jaber2]

I can't wait to be the first one in my neighborhood to have one of these babies, we're gona be roasting some marshmallows on them, wooowee

 

[JackNaylorPE]

The big unanswered question is why one would spend $800 more as compared to getting a Seasonic prime series with 12 year warranty.

But, as far as the marshmellows go, if ya wanna toast something you'd wanna avoid a high efficiency PSU as, by their very nature, they give off less heat

 

[bignastyid]

Wow. That's 5x what I payed for my AX1200i. Maybe it's just me but the only market I see for this are the people who light money on fire for fun.

 

[Kilowatt_is_worth_it]

I base my needs not just on raw required watts, but on longevity, silence and efficiency. If a PSU isn't "pushed" by it's usage, it should last longer. If it generates less heat, it's wasting less power, and creates less cooling-induced noice. Lower capacity PSUs tend to be made cheaper, and their components' capacity and tolerances are stretched a little more.
- Lower efficiency = more heat
- More heat = more fan noise.
- More heat = Compounded loss of efficiency by electrical resistance increase, and powering of active cooling device.
- Less fan usage = Less bearing wear
- Less fan usage = less noise increase with age.
- Less fan usage = Less dust and micro contaminant buildup
I stronly believe that a quality kilowatt PSU around 250~350$ is well worth the investement on many fronts. It's not just about wattage and amperage.

 

[turkey3_scratch]

Jonnyguru review http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story&reid=508

Highest build quality OklahmomaWolf has ever seen. So that's what you get for $1000 - the best build quality of any PSU. In this case it's not about the price it's about someone who wants the best built PSU.

- Less fan usage = Less dust and micro contaminant buildup

Not entirely sure about this last one. For exmaple, intake fans on a desktop puts positive air pressure inside and pushes out the dust. The intake fan on a PSU likely does the same. Exhaust fans are what cause dust, the intake fans help prevent dust.

 

[sam1275tom]

This is in fact a Chinese brand, so keep away from it.

 

[dstarr3]

I base my needs not just on raw required watts, but on longevity, silence and efficiency. If a PSU isn't "pushed" by it's usage, it should last longer. If it generates less heat, it's wasting less power, and creates less cooling-induced noice. Lower capacity PSUs tend to be made cheaper, and their components' capacity and tolerances are stretched a little more.
- Lower efficiency = more heat
- More heat = more fan noise.
- More heat = Compounded loss of efficiency by electrical resistance increase, and powering of active cooling device.
- Less fan usage = Less bearing wear
- Less fan usage = less noise increase with age.
- Less fan usage = Less dust and micro contaminant buildup
I stronly believe that a quality kilowatt PSU around 250~350$ is well worth the investement on many fronts. It's not just about wattage and amperage.

A PSU's efficiency isn't just a constant number, it fluctuates based on load, and it's rated based on peak efficiency. Which is to say, PSUs have different efficiencies at different loads. Typically a PSU's peak efficiency is around 60-80% load. If you buy an overkill PSU, just because you're only using 20% of a PSUs total output doesn't mean you're being any more efficient. You're most likely wasting power (and money) by doing so. If your system draws 300W of power, a 450W PSU in all likelihood delivers that power more efficiently than a 1200W PSU, even if both those PSUs have the same efficiency rating.

It is a shame that lower-wattage PSUs tend to be much less well-built, but that is changing lately as SuperFlower and SeaSonic are releasing more PSUs in the 300-400W range. But anyway, my main point is that buying a PSU that's four times the power you need doesn't mean you're getting any more efficiency out of it, and in fact you're likely getting less. And the best PSU to buy is one that delivers only as much power as your system needs, not one that delivers 3 or 4 times more.

 

[ddpruitt]

Nobody even needs a 1200W PSU. Unless you're running 4 titans you're power requirements are a lot less than 1.2kW. If you're buying this for anything less you're going to see a yuge drop in efficiency.

What we cannot understand, still, is why the final project didn't follow the digital path but ended up using an analog platform in the end

Do you even know the difference between an analog and digital PSU? There haven't been any analog PSUs in decades because you can't push that sort of efficiency out of an analog PSU.

 

[Sharky36566666]

I don't need 1200W but I like the idea of no fan noise at all at up to 600W.

 

[ddpruitt]

I don't need 1200W but I like the idea of no fan noise at all at up to 600W.

Actually if you want a quite PSU you're better off getting a 600W/450W PSU that is a closer match to your requirements. That 1200W PSU isn't going to be very efficient at 400W and half the power will go to heat. By matching only about 10% goes to heat. I've run 450W supplies in HTPCs and the PSUs are silent.

 

[TJ Hooker]

Actually if you want a quite PSU you're better off getting a 600W/450W PSU that is a closer match to your requirements. That 1200W PSU isn't going to be very efficient at 400W and half the power will go to heat. By matching only about 10% goes to heat. I've run 450W supplies in HTPCs and the PSUs are silent.

Even the base 80 plus rating specifies 80% efficiency at 20% load. Titanium PSUs like the one in this article have minimum 92% efficiency. Given that 400W is more than 20% of 1200, the actual efficiency should be a little better too. So you're not going to wasting even close to half the power. Also, in general the difference in efficiency between 20% and 50% load for the various 80 plus ratings is 5% or less.

Yes, everything else being equal, a PSU running at ~60-80% of its rated output will likely be more efficient than one running at ~33%. But it's not nearly as pronounced as you suggest, at least not for any decent, 80 plus rated PSU.

 

[JackNaylorPE]

Jonnyguru review http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story&reid=508

Highest build quality OklahmomaWolf has ever seen. So that's what you get for $1000 - the best build quality of any PSU. In this case it's not about the price it's about someone who wants the best built PSU.

Not entirely sure about this last one. For exmaple, intake fans on a desktop puts positive air pressure inside and pushes out the dust. The intake fan on a PSU likely does the same. Exhaust fans are what cause dust, the intake fans help prevent dust.

1. Ant yet despite putting all that money and care into building it, it's performance disappoints. I wouldn't put a 9.0 performance rated PSU in a gaming / enthusiast machine with the noted power irregularities and load regulation. from your link:

Performance (40% of the final score) - this certainly has been a memorable review. Performance wise, I can't really say for sure we got what we really wanted today. Half the S&C point goes away for 12V power on irregularities, and half a point has to come off for getting excellent load regulation when we were hoping for mythic. But that's all I'm deducting for here. Ripple control was outstanding and we got the Titanium efficiency we needed. Is this the best performing unit on the market? No. But it got a heck of a lot closer than anything I've tested from this company before.

Impressive by Cooler Master standards ? ... yes. Impressive by industry standards ? .... Not at all.

Why do we want "better" PSUs for a build ? The primary goal is performance, we can do much better for < 1/5th the price. Build Quality is a secondary criteria because we want that performance. Delta has long been recognized as having the best 'board work' in the industry but how many folks go looking for units made by Delta ?

Many times we see "rate my build" posts here with folks who went to pcpartpicker and picked the most expensive item in each category for their new gaming box and what do we see ....

a) X99 platform builds w/ 5960x CPUs which despite the $1500+ cost do not top Z270 builds
b) Titan video cards which, again, despite their great workstation performance for a non quadro card, do not top the x80 Tis in gaming.
c) 64 GB of RAM which brings nothing to the table

I think it's great that CM showed what they can do here ... or perhaps better said, what they can buy from someone else. Some guy in a corner office at CM prolly figured that articles about the build quality would be written and, in some people's minds, it would be assumed that this quality existed at the price levels that actually have significant sales.

But I don't choose a PSU based upon how attractive and neat the board work, etc is ... who does ? I don't want to void the warranty by opening it up to look at it.

In and of themselves, positive / negative pressure is not created by intake or exhaust fans but the relative number and capacity of each. On all but the cheapest cases, intake fan mount locations will have dust filters, exhaust fan mount locations do not. many cases today are configured as follows:

Front = Two intake fan mounts
Rear = One intake fan mount
Top = Three intake / exhaust fan mounts
Bottom or side = One or Two intake fan mounts

The front and rear usually come with the case and no problem with that set up ... but the 1st thing folks usually do when they add fans is put 1-3 fans on top as exhaust because '"hot air rises".

However when we 'do the math', with 3 fans we see this is a bad thing 4 out and 2 in means lotta dust being sucked in thru he rear unfiltered case grilles. But the part oft not recognized is what's carrying in that dust ? The hot exhaust air from that 1200 watt PSU and your 250 watt GFX card(s). Even with just one fan on top, that's 2 out and 2 in ... is that balanced ? Not by a long shot. Those two intake fans remember have intake filters .... depending on how dirty they are you could easily lose 30% of their flow due to the filter resistance... so that's 2 unrestricted fans sucking air out and 2 significantly flow restricted fans blowing in... end result hot exhaust and dust being sucked into case.

The PSU fan itself is neutral in this case ... air sucked into the case from the bottom is exhausted out the rear.

As for wattage ....

Recommended PSU size = 1.5 x typical gaming load
Peak efficiency is at 50%

A PSI w/ Titanium rating will have the following efficiency characteristics as a minimum

10 % Load = 90% (10% of power wasted as heat)
20 % Load = 92% (8% of power wasted as heat)
50 % Load = 94% (6% of power wasted as heat)
100 % Load = 90% (10% of power wasted as heat)

For today's to end SLI build ....

Seasonic Prime 850 ($175) - No need for the $300 1200 watter [prime as nothing I could build **that makes sense** could require that much power. No deductions on performance and "Build Quality" description is just one word "Perfect"

Performance = 10
Functionality = 10
Value = 10
Build Quality = 10
Total Score = 10

CM Master Watt Maker 1200 MIJ ($1000) - Only thing this PSU gives me is bragging rights for the most expensive PSU / PC on the block. Neither I nor anyone else will every see the pretty board work and the BQ rating is no better than above. On the flip side there are several deductions for performance and an overall PR of just 9.0. heck, I bought a lot of EVGA 750 B2s for $5 that were did better at 9.5. And the 7.5 functionality rating on a $1,000 PSU... I don't mind the ribbon cables but cheaping out on documentation and accessories and asking $1k is a bone head move.

Performance = 9
Functionality = 7.5
Value = 10
Build Quality = 10
Total Score = 9.1

The total score for the EVGA B2 750s that we bought for $45 had an overall 9.0 rating. Now I can understand an electronics "nerd" (and, as an engineer, I use that term as a matter of admiration and respect) like the Wolf going gaga over the build quality. But while I like a pretty and aesthetically pleasing PC as much as the next guy, for a PC enthusiast, aesthetic concerns take a huge step back to performance. And to invest an extra $825 over a 850 watt Seasonic Prime or even a 1200 watt prime, I need more than the proverbial pretty face. And it's not as if that huge proce premium is bringing me a longer warranty ... the Prime is 20% longer not that anyone would likely have a reason to use either.

 

[ddpruitt]

...
Even the base 80 plus rating specifies 80% efficiency at 20% load. Titanium PSUs like the one in this article have minimum 92% efficiency. Given that 400W is more than 20% of 1200, the actual efficiency should be a little better too. So you're not going to wasting even close to half the power. Also, in general the difference in efficiency between 20% and 50% load for the various 80 plus ratings is 5% or less.

Yes, everything else being equal, a PSU running at ~60-80% of its rated output will be more efficient than one running at ~33%. But it's not nearly as pronounced as you suggest, at least not for any decent, 80 plus rated PSU.

I forgot about that. But even in that case you're looking at 90% vs 95%, so you're still doubling the heat output because you're running at such a low duty cycle. Buying this because you think it'll be quieter, cooler, or more efficient at less than 20% is insane. You're always better off matching the PSU to the intended load, and there are very few people that actually draw 1200W, even dual GPU setups would have a hard time pushing 700-800W.

 

[Co BIY]

When looking at this product I suspect there is some non-market force that prompted it's creation. I suspect one of the following:

- Japanese Self-defense Force (or other government entity) contract that emphasizes either 100% Made in Japan or a certain percentage "Made in Japan" for which this PSU can help meet that performance standard.

- Labor Union/Worker/Government/Social pressure to "Do it like we used to, all in-house, all in Japan" This can work for the company in that they can show that they can do it or that they can but no one wants to pay the price. This project can demonstrate on a small and manageable scale the feasibility or lack there of for larger more sophisticated projects (Supercomputers, Nationwide Missile Defense Radar System, ect...).

- 100% in-house with in-house components and in-house intellectual costs are a field day for the tax accountants who can assign costs and profits wherever they want and wherever gives them the most benefits.

- Vanity/PR project for the company or senior management. I don't think I knew about Murata before and now I know they have the flexibility to throw 40 engineers at a "new to them" problem and get a working high performance unit into the field. Sometimes you build high-end Corvette's at a loss to sell Malibu's by the lot-full. Pretty sure they will feature the PSU when they are flogging the individual components to others.

Then once you have the product the marketers find a re-brander (Cooler Master) to sell a few units to the retail market at the margin.

I'd say it's usually better to introduce yourself to the market on the high-quality end with too high a price than on the low quality end with a market price. (So long as you can take the losses).

 

[turkey3_scratch]

Do you even know the difference between an analog and digital PSU? There haven't been any analog PSUs in decades because you can't push that sort of efficiency out of an analog PSU.

This is false. Almost all PSUs on the market are analog, even the Seasonic Prime Titanium is. The high end Corsair AXi units are digital, I think there's maybe one other PSU on the market with digital circuitry, but the rest are analog.

@JackNaylorPE: Not the point, it's still has the highest build quality of any PSU. Performance aside, best build quality. It's for people with a lot of money who want the best build quality.

 

[George Mulligan]

Holy hell, you've got to be kidding me. Question to anyone thinking of buying one of these beast: Even if you think you'll get 10 more years of reliable operation out of this unit compared with established industry PSUs (even though it's not warranted as such), do you think CM/Murata or even another experienced PSU OEM will not invent anything better in the next 10 years? Because even if you think "Made in Japan" and "build quality" are going to give that extra life, the math just doesn't add up. Buy a leading 1000/1200/1500 watt unit today for ONE FIFTH the cost, let it burn in 10 years, then buy 2 more of those (or whatever else has been invented/improved upon in the meantime), and you're still $400 ahead (not including the gain from inflation).

I guarantee if you slapped some LED lights on an AX1200i, you'd sell more of those units at $1,000 than this sucker. Unreal.

 

[TJ Hooker]

I assume this PSU is aimed at the same people who buy Titans and Intel "Extreme" CPUs to put in a build that will only be used for gaming.

 

[turkey3_scratch]

Holy hell, this is just out there... where is common sense. Ok, "Japan" components Holy hell, you've got to be kidding me. Question to anyone thinking of buying one of these beast: Even if you think you'll get 10 more years of reliable operation out of this unit compared with established industry PSUs (even though it's not warranted as such), do you think CM/Murata or even another experienced PSU OEM will not invent anything better in the next 10 years? Because even if you think "Made in Japan" and "build quality" are going to give that extra life, the math just doesn't add up. Buy a leading 1000/1200/1500 watt unit today for ONE FIFTH the cost, let it burn in 10 years, then buy 2 more of those (or whatever else has been invented/improved upon in the meantime), and you're still $400 ahead (not including the gain from inflation).

I guarantee if you slapped some LED lights on an AX1200i, you'd sell more of those units at $1,000 than this sucker. Unreal.

You are misunderstanding the target audience of this PSU. TJ Hooker is on the spot.

 

[JackNaylorPE]

@JackNaylorPE: Not the point, it's still has the highest build quality of any PSU. Performance aside, best build quality. It's for people with a lot of money who want the best build quality.

But it most certainly is the point; ya have to ask yourself this question... does this person exist ? Wolf rated the Prime's Build Quality with one word. "Perfect". So who is this person who **needs** better than perfect ? Who is the person who says, "well the PSU doesn't perform as well as one I can buy for $45 but I **want** a PSU where the every wire is arranged in perfect lines, no solder joints have an irregular shape and there's no evidence of a drop of solder flux anywhere (well scratch this PSU then cause Wolf did observe flux splatter) and I don't care the performance is "eh" ?

Are they going to void their warranty and open it up so they can appreciate the "build quality" ? ... are they going to build an acrylic housing so they can show it off to their friends ? What is their motivation whereby they are willing to sacrifice performance for the knowledge that the person assembling it was an superior electronics technician ?

I just can't imagine the person who buys an umbrella to marvel at the quality of the wood handle, diamond encrusted shaft and egyptian cotton fabric but when ya use it, results in having water drip on your head cause it doesn't keep 100% of the rain from getting thru.

What do you say to a person spends more than 20 times more this PSU because it's assembly work is the very best quality one can buy .... but when performing its primary function can't perform as well as a $45 PSU ? I wouldn't know here to start.

Yes, this would be the PSU for the person that can't sleep at night knowing that inside his PSU, there is a irregular shaped solder blob at 2 solder joints or maybe there's a spot of flux on one of the wire's insulation. And if it's performance matched the skill of the assembly technician, yes I could see folks who must have the very best of everything forking out the $1k.

But that is not what we have here. I don't think that person exists who would be willing to pay $1,000 bucks for something, no matter how pretty, when it performs worse than a $45 unit.

I can understand someone giving up some features and even performance for aesthetics when selecting a case because you have to sit down and look at it every day. Some will even accept drastic reductions in features and performance from a blinged out case because they think their friends will be impressed by it. But, remember, we're not talking about component improvements here, if it had better componentry, it would perform better. We are talking about the technician's skill in soldering and assembling these components in a neat and aesthetic manner. No one is ever going to see this "build quality" and there's no way to observe in any way, the assembly technician's skill because it's locked inside a box and you can't see inside. Again, not saying that peeps wouldn't pay $1k for that build quality ... what I can't see happening is someone willing to take that kind of a performance hit to get it.,

 

[turkey3_scratch]

But it most certainly is the point; ya have to ask yourself this question... does this person exist ? Wolf rated the Prime's Build Quality with one word. "Perfect". So who is this person who **needs** better than perfect ? Who is the person who says, "well the PSU doesn't perform as well as one I can buy for $45 but I **want** a PSU where the every wire is arranged in perfect lines, no solder joints have an irregular shape and there's no evidence of a drop of solder flux anywhere (well scratch this PSU then cause Wolf did observe flux splatter) and I don't care the performance is "eh" ?

Cooler Master made the product because in some way they will make money from it. Cooler Master is a big company with a lot of experts on finance and stuff, they don't just create power supplies at a whim, there is a process where they ask themselves if it is reasonable to create the product and to price it at $1000, and their financial team thought that was best. So they're probably going to make money off it. Cooler Master is a fairly big name in the PSU game, they sell a lot of units and know what they're doing financially.

 

[dstarr3]

But it most certainly is the point; ya have to ask yourself this question... does this person exist ? Wolf rated the Prime's Build Quality with one word. "Perfect". So who is this person who **needs** better than perfect ? Who is the person who says, "well the PSU doesn't perform as well as one I can buy for $45 but I **want** a PSU where the every wire is arranged in perfect lines, no solder joints have an irregular shape and there's no evidence of a drop of solder flux anywhere (well scratch this PSU then cause Wolf did observe flux splatter) and I don't care the performance is "eh" ?

Cooler Master made the product because in some way they will make money from it. Cooler Master is a big company with a lot of experts on finance and stuff, they don't just create power supplies at a whim, there is a process where they ask themselves if it is reasonable to create the product and to price it at $1000, and their financial team thought that was best. So they're probably going to make money off it. Cooler Master is a fairly big name in the PSU game, they sell a lot of units and know what they're doing financially.

You can sell 1,000 at $150 or you can sell 150 at $1,000. Here, they're going for the latter approach.