Cooler Master Demos 3D Vapor Chamber CPU Cooler Tech

[scolaner]

Cooler Master is dedicated to innovating in the CPU cooler space, and the company brought some experimental cooling tech with it to CES 2015.

Cooler Master Demos 3D Vapor Chamber CPU Cooler Tech : Read more

 

[jossrik]

I thought the problem with vapor chambers was the direction they were facing. In the picture it looks all good, but in reality that cooler would be sideways, so wouldn't the vapor condense on the side (bottom) of the cooler? Same problem for video cards, I understand the tech, with the way video cards sit in a case, the heat source is the top of the cooler, and for a liquid vapor chamber you'd need the bottom for the liquid, there aren't any liquids that are lighter than their vapor counterparts... Am I missing something?

 

[leo2kp]

How is this any different than a direct-contact heatpipe?

 

[dwatterworth]

How is this any different than a direct-contact heatpipe?

It's different from a direct contact heatpipe in the way that the whole CPU lid would be covered evenly, instead of problems faced with heatpipe orientation, missed CPU hotspots etc. Even DC heatpipes that are mashed together will have different heat transfer rates where the heatpipes merge and form thicker copper sections.

 

[Simon Ayres]

The orientation will have a minimal effect on the vapor chambers, the second law of thermodynamics and the zeroth law of thermodynamics stat that everything moves toward thermal equilibrium.

The reason heat rises is due to the fact that anything with more "heat" or energy is less dense then the same type of matter with less energy making the earths gravitational pull on it lower.

But no matter what the heat will still spread even if the heat source is on top because energy by nature radiates away from its source.

 

[Sonny73N]

"The warm liquid is run up"
Only when I lay my computer on its side.

 

[Ron Olbrey]

Actually, for heat pipes under a foot or two in length, orientation does not matter. The fluid is held in a metal sponge lining on the entire inside surface of the pipe, so all parts of the pipe are in contact with liquid. The heat source boils the liquid off at the heat contact point, this vapor travels through the pipe and condenses everywhere else, releasing heat. Fluid is wicked back to the heat source through capillary action of the sponge.
Heat is transferred not by flowing fluid, but by the vapor pressure increase caused by the boiling of the liquid at the heat point. The heat travels to every point in the pipe at the speed of the pressure wave, essentially the speed of sound.

 

[yhikum]

This is somewhat confusing.

The so called "vapor" would carry a unit of thermal energy to the point where "vapor" can expand into, most likely, to the opposite end of metal tube where "vapor" is held. This is in assumption that "vapor" can travel there, that vaporized liquid is moving inside sealed enclosure.

Now, what happens when you heat up liquid inside sealed enclosure? A liquid would start expanding into a gas, creating internal pressure several orders of magnitude of starting pressure (if it can expand). The case can be easily demonstrated with steam engines or frozen water, where in both cases base liquid expands to create more pressure than at liquid state.

At some point of time thermal saturation can be reached to have all of the liquid converted into gas (again, if pressure is maintained boiling point of liquid will change dramatically, so higher temperatures are required for liquid -> gas conversion), at which point we have some nice steam pipe about to burst into small explosion due to all of the accumulated pressure.

In short, I find it hard to believe that a small sealed system would be used to convert liquid into vapor just to transfer heat over short distance due to all of the pressure involved. It would be believable to use liquid which can transfer heat much more efficiently than copper.

 

[dwatterworth]

This is somewhat confusing.

The so called "vapor" would carry a unit of thermal energy to the point where "vapor" can expand into, most likely, to the opposite end of metal tube where "vapor" is held. This is in assumption that "vapor" can travel there, that vaporized liquid is moving inside sealed enclosure.

Now, what happens when you heat up liquid inside sealed enclosure? A liquid would start expanding into a gas, creating internal pressure several orders of magnitude of starting pressure (if it can expand). The case can be easily demonstrated with steam engines or frozen water, where in both cases base liquid expands to create more pressure than at liquid state.

At some point of time thermal saturation can be reached to have all of the liquid converted into gas (again, if pressure is maintained boiling point of liquid will change dramatically, so higher temperatures are required for liquid -> gas conversion), at which point we have some nice steam pipe about to burst into small explosion due to all of the accumulated pressure.

In short, I find it hard to believe that a small sealed system would be used to convert liquid into vapor just to transfer heat over short distance due to all of the pressure involved. It would be believable to use liquid which can transfer heat much more efficiently than copper.

Check this website which explains how heat pipes work. There is also an explanation of water heat pipes. I think your primary confusion is coming from your phasing for the manufacturing process and quantities used.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_pipe

 

[yhikum]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_pipe

That is really informative!

 

[Ron Olbrey]

Most copper heat pipes use water as a fluid. The key is that they only contain water, no air. As such, at room temperature, the pressure is very low. The pressure only gets to normal atmospheric pressure at 100C, or 212F.

The important point is that any enclosed space with only water, and water vapor, no other gasses, the water will be at its boiling point all the way down to near freezing. So at room temperature, any added heat causes the water to boil, creating vapor (which the transition from, for instance, 25C liquid to 25C gas requires a great deal of energy and absorbs heat).

The 25C gas created increases the pressure in the entire pipe, evenly and instantly, which causes the boiling point to go up. This causes vapor over the entire unheated part of the pipe to condense to a liquid, thereby releasing heat.

The fascinating fact is that the heat absorbed by the liquid to gas transition at one end, is released by a gas to liquid transition at the other end by the gas already at the other end, the heat is transferred by the pressure increase, not by the transfer of a heated material. Also, the heat transfer does not require the media to increase in temperature, only to change phase, which occurs at a constant temperature. Hence the very low thermal resistance.

 

[mortsmi7]

This is somewhat confusing.

The so called "vapor" would carry a unit of thermal energy to the point where "vapor" can expand into, most likely, to the opposite end of metal tube where "vapor" is held. This is in assumption that "vapor" can travel there, that vaporized liquid is moving inside sealed enclosure.

Now, what happens when you heat up liquid inside sealed enclosure? A liquid would start expanding into a gas, creating internal pressure several orders of magnitude of starting pressure (if it can expand). The case can be easily demonstrated with steam engines or frozen water, where in both cases base liquid expands to create more pressure than at liquid state.

At some point of time thermal saturation can be reached to have all of the liquid converted into gas (again, if pressure is maintained boiling point of liquid will change dramatically, so higher temperatures are required for liquid -> gas conversion), at which point we have some nice steam pipe about to burst into small explosion due to all of the accumulated pressure.

In short, I find it hard to believe that a small sealed system would be used to convert liquid into vapor just to transfer heat over short distance due to all of the pressure involved. It would be believable to use liquid which can transfer heat much more efficiently than copper.

The heatpipe is a closed-loop system. In every closed loop system there is a balance of 4 things. Heat being added, heat being removed, pressure being added, pressure being removed. The heatfins take care of removing heat and pressure, while the CPU adds heat and pressure. Though you could possibly shove the heatsink in an oven, heating the whole thing evenly and make it explode. But as long as there is some form of heat removal that keeps the balance of heat being added, it won't explode.

 

[damric]

I'll have to get one and test it. The TPC coolers can handle a huge TDP, so it makes me wonder how much more heat transfer this improvement yields.

 

[photonboy]

Simon Ayres,
You aren't correct in your analysis.

Heat pipe orientation absolutely does affect efficiency. However if it's designed correctly the difference isn't significant.
http://www.legitreviews.com/mounting-a-cpu-cooler-the-heatpipe-direction-might-matter_741

For example, if you had a longer heat pipe and the heat source was on TOP then the gas would be pulled down, condense and remain liquid thus never cycle back to the heat source.

You may want to review your physics a bit.

 

[RedJaron]

Am very interested in seeing how much better, if at all, this system is over the current designs. And of course how much more expensive they'll be.

 

[damric]

Simon Ayres,
You aren't correct in your analysis.

Heat pipe orientation absolutely does affect efficiency. However if it's designed correctly the difference isn't significant.
http://www.legitreviews.com/mounting-a-cpu-cooler-the-heatpipe-direction-might-matter_741

For example, if you had a longer heat pipe and the heat source was on TOP then the gas would be pulled down, condense and remain liquid thus never cycle back to the heat source.

You may want to review your physics a bit.

Review for everyone:

A heat pipe is a heat-transfer device that combines the principles of both thermal conductivity and phase transition to efficiently manage the transfer of heat between two solid interfaces.

At the hot interface of a heat pipe a liquid in contact with a thermally conductive solid surface turns into a vapor by absorbing heat from that surface. The vapor then travels along the heat pipe to the cold interface and condenses back into a liquid - releasing the latent heat. The liquid then returns to the hot interface through either capillary action, centrifugal force, or gravity, and the cycle repeats. Due to the very high heat transfer coefficients for boiling and condensation, heat pipes are highly efficient thermal conductors. The effective thermal conductivity varies with heat pipe length, and can approach 100000 W/(m⋅K) for long heat pipes, in comparison with approximately 400 W/(m⋅K) for copper.

Capillary action (sometimes capillarity, capillary motion, or wicking) is the ability of a liquid to flow in narrow spaces without the assistance of, and in opposition to, external forces like gravity. The effect can be seen in the drawing up of liquids between the hairs of a paint-brush, in a thin tube, in porous materials such as paper, in some non-porous materials such as liquefied carbon fiber, or in a cell. It occurs because of intermolecular forces between the liquid and surrounding solid surfaces. If the diameter of the tube is sufficiently small, then the combination of surface tension (which is caused by cohesion within the liquid) and adhesive forces between the liquid and container act to lift the liquid. In short, the capillary action is due to the pressure of cohesion and adhesion which cause the liquid to work against gravity.

 

[Simon Ayres]

@photonboy

Don't misrepresent my argument in a juvenile attempt to prove your self right.
I never stated that it wouldn't effect efficiency, just that the effect would be minimal.
As to my physics, they are spot on, if you are going to attempt to refute them point out what I got wrong and what is the correct answer.

As it stand your argument is "Your wrong because I said so, and look this review that proves that heat pipe orientation has a minimal effect."

Guess what, today you win the internet.

 

[Calculatron]

Didn't Cooler Master already do something like this? Or is it the 3D vapor chamber that makes the difference, somehow?

I want to say that the previous attempt was the TPC 612?

 

[tigerwild]

A direct contact heat pipe is significantly better in many respects. The motion of the fluid is caused by convection. The heated water is less dense and rises naturally. Any SHARP cornering acts as a resistance to the motion of the fluid. A smooth corner of lightly bent copper tubing, especially where the tubing itself is in direct contact with the CPU, should always outperform this design simply because of lower resistance to the naturally circular motion of the flow.

Just looking at this design I can see that the flat plate will result in rapid boiling, fluid back pressure, and restriction of flow which will cause it to perform lower than current bent tube designs.

I can almost guarantee they will end up putting 4 or 5 times more tubes hanging off this to cover almost all of top of that flat plat in order to allow lots of small sections of flow to establish themselves

 

[I800C0LLECT]

Hasn't Thermalright
been doing this with their heatsink for almost 10 years?

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article186-page1.html

Quote: Our Heatpipe construction was redesigned to eliminate any gravity effect and to unleash the capability of the XP-120's performance to operate at 100% in any direction you mount it. The directional aspect of heatpipe performance has been noted in Thermaliright's SP-94 and SP-97, which specificy one or more positions as being less than ideal for cooling. That they have addressed this issue is a good thing.

 

[Simon Ayres]

Didn't Cooler Master already do something like this? Or is it the 3D vapor chamber that makes the difference, somehow?

I want to say that the previous attempt was the TPC 612?

and the tpc 812

both of which are phenomenal coolers

 

[damric]

Yeah I have a TPC-612. It's pretty amazing. So overkill for my 5GHz quad core overclocks!

 

[rdc85]

The one thing they want to archive with this is more evenly heat spread and much faster toward all heat pipes..
They hoping to make whole base and pipe to single vapor chamber.. if they can make a prototype that work it'll be great..

Direct Heat pipe is already amazing but the heat transfer from one more heated pipes to another one still via metal to metal (copper).. same thing with copper heat pipe that soldered to copper base (or vapor chamber base)..
using vapor (liquid) is much quicker heat transfer..

Edit: this make me remember some GPU cooler review that came with 5/6 gpu (direct contact type)..
but only 2 that actually contact the heat source so it have mediocre performance

 

[Simon Ayres]

Yeah I have a TPC-612. It's pretty amazing. So overkill for my 5GHz quad core overclocks!

I have a TPC 812 got my 2700k up to 4.8 stable but it was running a little hot, with in safe temps but i have my computer in a rather small space and dont like to much heat os i dropped it to 4.6 and it barely breaks 60 under load.

 

[scolaner]

Didn't Cooler Master already do something like this? Or is it the 3D vapor chamber that makes the difference, somehow?

I want to say that the previous attempt was the TPC 612?

Correct. But this is an evolution. Whereas before, they had a vapor chamber sitting on top of the CPU that *touched* the heat pipes, this design *connects* the heat pipes to the vapor chamber. Thus, the heat pipes become part of the actual vapor chamber.