Review Cooler Master ML360 Sub-Zero Review: Frigid Temps for LGA1200

gargoylenest

Prominent
Jan 13, 2020
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I believe the technology would be much more efficient if used perpendicular between the fans and the radiator to push cold air in the radiator fins without direct heating on the Peltier plates.
 

rubix_1011

Contributing Writer
Moderator
The overall question of performance is the most notable here, but the bigger conversation is around how to integrate and improve upon this with future solutions. Like anything else, it lends an exciting look into some new approaches to cooling technologies to see how well it is adopted by the public.

Yes, we look at this product 'now' but the more curious questions lie in 'what is coming next as a result'?
 

deesider

Reputable
Jun 15, 2017
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The overall question of performance is the most notable here, but the bigger conversation is around how to integrate and improve upon this with future solutions. Like anything else, it lends an exciting look into some new approaches to cooling technologies to see how well it is adopted by the public.

Yes, we look at this product 'now' but the more curious questions lie in 'what is coming next as a result'?
In this case the very concept is patently absurd.

Peltier cooling is extremely inefficient and that isn't going to change any time soon. The end result of using a Peltier cooling in an enclosed case is simply to add 100W of heat into the case while cooling the processor by about 10W. It could be improved of course by placing the Peltier device outside the case so that it would take heat out of the coolant as it passes though, but still only by 10W. Which is rather insignificant given the trouble of an external cooling device.

Since it can only cool the CPU below ambient when the CPU is at idle, it has no purpose other than a gimmick. Although it is possible to connect a Peltier cooler large enough to match the heat output of the CPU, the cooler itself would consume so much power there wouldn't be any left for the PC.

- In other words, no one should ever buy this.
 

escksu

Respectable
Aug 8, 2019
450
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1,860
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The overall question of performance is the most notable here, but the bigger conversation is around how to integrate and improve upon this with future solutions. Like anything else, it lends an exciting look into some new approaches to cooling technologies to see how well it is adopted by the public.

Yes, we look at this product 'now' but the more curious questions lie in 'what is coming next as a result'?
Peltier coolers are nothing new. They were around during Pentium days as well. Unfortunately, they face exactly the same problem as this cooler master kit. So, after a while, it died and nobody bothers about it.

Now, companies are trying to recreate something that failed and couldn't work....

Peltiers don't work, period. Iaws of physics that cannot be changed, regardless of the approach. Peltier is a heat pump, not a cooler. IF you have a CPU generating 200W and your peltier is rated 200W, you get 0C difference between cold and hot side. However, you are dissipating 400W.... Might as well not use the peltier.

With overclocked multicore CPUs hitting over 200-300W, you need 300-400W. Then you are dissipating 500-700W. Even a triple 12cm rad may not be sufficient. IF you have 10-16 core ones, its even worse.
 

watzupken

Notable
Mar 16, 2020
489
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1,070
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So running an Intel CPU with up to 250W of power and a graphic card drawing 200 to 350W of power is not enough. Coolermaster wants the cooler to also draw 200W? If they want to do that, at least make it cool the CPU effectively. The 360 AIO is now doing double duty of cooling the CPU and Peltier now. I guess one may get better results by just buying a cheap 240 AIO to cool just the CPU and save at least 90% of power on cooling.
 

tresnugget

Commendable
Nov 5, 2018
9
1
1,525
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So toms hardware completely missed the point of this cooler. It's not for single core/thread overclocking. It's for creating custom TVB rules to get insanely high frequency at low thread counts, pretty high frequency at medium high thread count, and slightly overclocked frequency at full thread count. You really need a decent binned CPU so using a 10850K isn't really advisable.
 

PapaCrazy

Distinguished
Dec 28, 2011
283
81
18,890
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Peltier coolers are nothing new. They were around during Pentium days as well. Unfortunately, they face exactly the same problem as this cooler master kit. So, after a while, it died and nobody bothers about it.

Now, companies are trying to recreate something that failed and couldn't work....

Peltiers don't work, period. Iaws of physics that cannot be changed, regardless of the approach. Peltier is a heat pump, not a cooler. IF you have a CPU generating 200W and your peltier is rated 200W, you get 0C difference between cold and hot side. However, you are dissipating 400W.... Might as well not use the peltier.

With overclocked multicore CPUs hitting over 200-300W, you need 300-400W. Then you are dissipating 500-700W. Even a triple 12cm rad may not be sufficient. IF you have 10-16 core ones, its even worse.
Exactly. Nobody can beat the law of conservation of energy. The energy is transferred to the PSU, which is now forced to do the cooling on top of powering everything else. The only solution would be an external PSU, but personally I wouldn't bother with a PITA setup like that.
 
Reactions: deesider

deesider

Reputable
Jun 15, 2017
215
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So toms hardware completely missed the point of this cooler. It's not for single core/thread overclocking. It's for creating custom TVB rules to get insanely high frequency at low thread counts, pretty high frequency at medium high thread count, and slightly overclocked frequency at full thread count. You really need a decent binned CPU so using a 10850K isn't really advisable.
The miserable cooling ability of the Peltier cooler in this device could easily be surpassed by simply increasing the rpm of the cooling fans by about 1%. It is entirely pointless.
 

rubix_1011

Contributing Writer
Moderator
So toms hardware completely missed the point of this cooler. It's not for single core/thread overclocking. It's for creating custom TVB rules to get insanely high frequency at low thread counts, pretty high frequency at medium high thread count, and slightly overclocked frequency at full thread count. You really need a decent binned CPU so using a 10850K isn't really advisable.
This also means we cannot compare it to any other cooler and provide any evaluations if we are giving special consideration for one cooler but not all others. The entire reason for testing in the same way as every other cooler we evaluate is to provide an equal basis of measure and how that would be comparable in terms of performance and value based on cost.

Otherwise, we create an environment where we test to only a cooler's specific strengths, allowing different variables which lead to be an ideal solution for different coolers. This also includes using a hand-picked CPU which isn't going to be something the average builder can do - you get what you get when you click the order button. Again, also making the comparison of this cooler to any other cooler under the same conditions be a meaningless exercise. The i9-18050k is on the supported processor list - which is what we use. Again, catering to the cooler by only using a specific CPU over another gives this cooler a possible advantage which have not been provided to other coolers.

Readers want to see 'how does this compare to cooler X, Y or Z if put into the same situation of utilization'. For that to occur, the testing needs to include as few variables between tests as possible.
 

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