Core Duo Processor Problems

[hergieburbur]

Microsoft Driver Bug Saps Core Duo Power ...

Has anyone seen this article yet?

I am interested to see what people's thoughts on this are. Especially since they new about it for 6 months and nobody said anything.

 

[kenp]

first off, im not here to defend intel or microsoft, but anytime you plug something extra into a device powered by a battery IT'S GOING TO DRAIN POWER FROM THE BATTERY !!!. just like a digital camera is supposed to take so many pics on one battery charge but if you use the flash every time you will get less. the article failed to give us facts. like what they plugged in and how long did they have it plugged in. give us the facts not just the hype.

 

[hergieburbur]

Did you actually read the article? They were using an external device.

"For our second test, our engineers connected a USB 2.0 external combo drive (IBM DN-224E), and ran Mobilemark 2005 - Reader Benchmark on both systems again. The external drive was powered by its own external power adapter, which means it should avoid draining any power from the system to which it's attached."

If what you are saying is true then why didn't we see a uniform decrease on both platforms. Besides, usb suppllies about 500mA of power, not enough to account for that kind of power drain.

Anyway, I was not aiming to debate its authenticity, but to discuss its implications for the industry as a whole. Topics like reviewers missing it, them trying to hide it, possible implications in the Intel-Apple deal that features this platform as well, and most importantly what it means to us as consumers.

 

[mpjesse]

I voted both for two reasons:

1. It's MS's driver so they're responsible for it.
2. Intel should have done some more thorough testings with regards to external USB 2.0 devices and measured power drain. They obviously didn't do this.

I fault Intel more than I do M$, but i'm an equal opportunity hater.

-mpjesse

 

[kenp]

i stand corrected, i read the wrong article. i read the 25 page review. clicked on the wrong link

thank you,

 

[bourgeoisdude]

Hard to say with 100% sureness of who is truly at fault. Fact is the MS driver works fine for USB 2.0 devices on other Intel Chipsets as well as AMD cpu-based chipsets. For this reason I would label it as Intel's fault. MS could have done something to fix it too, but since I'm thinking like 95% Intel at fault I vote Intel...

 

[hergieburbur]

...And here I hoped the days of them trying to let us find their mistakes after they cover them up were disappearing.

Don't you just love being part of the largest Beta testing group ever?

 

[ltcommander_data]

It's probably both their faults. Microsoft has known about that problem and hasn't fixed it for too long. Intel probably inadvertantly used an incompatible component somewhere that triggers the problem. They they've said in the article, one faulty component screws up the entire power saving scheme.

I couldn't help but note the desperation in the article's tone though. I know people have been complaining about the perceived (don't want to pass judgement here) bias or lack of quality of the articles in Tom's Hardware recently, or for a while, so it's funny reading this one.

so that the responsible parties have a clear channel to you - their customers, and our readers - so that someone's inadvertent oversight doesn't impact your work and your life.

Or their recent opinion update.

http://www.tgdaily.com/2006/01/29/opinion_core_duo_microsoft_power_drain/

This is not a "We're Holier-Than-Thou" rant, and we're not looking to laud our victory and keep score. Indeed, far from it. I don't want Tom's Hardware Guide to be in any way, shape or form "Holier-Than-Thou" with regards to its competition.

One among us shouldn't have to be the watchdog who puts in longer hours of testing in order to make sure as sure that a product will not disappoint and anger consumers. Sure we'll get plenty of praise for having been the one reviewer among many to have caught out Intel and Microsoft on this one, but as a consumer and a reader of many reviews I don't want to have to rely on just the one publication.

The lengths they are going to to say they aren't gloating yet the fact that they are still sounding like they are taking the high road is hilarious. They really should just present the facts as they are and keep the moral lecturing to a minimum. They don't really need to tell us they are doing all this work for us. The fact that they are providing new and relevent information speaks of their commitment more than their words.

 

[bourgeoisdude]

One person as of this moment has voted that MS is the problem. I understand saying Intel is the problem, and also saying both are the problem, but just MS? Would the MS voter volunteer the reason they said it's strictly MS's fault?

I'm not looking to bash, I just want to know what makes you think it is strictly an MS problem.

 

[hergieburbur]

Personally, I think its both, though I forgot to vote in my own poll until just now...

Intel and MS both have a history of hiding their problems til someone else exposes them.

I also thought the tone of the articles was a bit amusing, but at least they seem to be trying to improve.

 

[nobly]

Out of curiosity, does anyone know what this means?
Page 2:
"To keep the USB port awake, we continuously read data from each device using a standard electricians' tool."

A standard electrician's tool? To keep it awake?

I can see why intel shipped it. It still outperforms the older systems in battery life. True, it could be alot better, as the article proves, but its not what you would call a 'showstopper'. Would they hold up a multimillion dollar release for this? I doubt it. Especially since it can be "patched".

Did THG attach a USB device in the 1st review? I didn't see one mentioned in the Test Setup. If they didn't then how did they come to this conclusion that it was a USB device issue?

 

[endyen]

And now for a little conspiracy theory.
I wonder how many of these "bugs" there are that Intel knows about, and maybe Amd doesn't. On paper, the turion should get much better battery life than it does.

 

[Cunninglinguist]

I emailed Tom's on this. Why not run a different OS to find out if is a windows issue? Linux anyone? A simple live CD would work.
Or am I missing the boat on this one :?:

 

[Aaron McKenna]

I emailed Tom's on this. Why not run a different OS to find out if is a windows issue? Linux anyone? A simple live CD would work.
Or am I missing the boat on this one :?:

The Munich labs are working on all of that. They need to sleep too

And THG isn't gloating on this one. We're pointing out that of all the reviews of Core Duo why the hell is it that nobody thought to plug in a friggen USB device and use the system under "normal" conditions?

Corner cutting, that's why. I can only imagine the amount of moral outrage there would be if this turned up a few months from now because Joe Consumer who just shelled out a couple of grand on his new machine bothered to do some testing. Many people in the industry who spoke to us commented on how Intel would have got away with selling Core Duo through thousands of units before the problem was caught out - they were counting on the fact that everyone in the industry press wouldn't be able to catch a cold let alone a simple bug. And get this: They almost did.

That pisses me off to a great extent. Whatever about settling old scores (and I would be otherwise loath to mention here that THG is often scurrilously called a forgiving Intel fan boy by the same people who missed this) there's the fact that their laziness could cost us all an awful lot of money. That annoys every single one of us here, and I think you'll agree that we've gone to lengths to reign that in and not let it near our writing to a great extent.


(…just imagine me waving my arms frantically whilst reading that, for greater effect…)

 

[slvr_phoenix]

With the present data given, I have to say that this is 100% M$'s fault.

If a simple registry change can solve the problem? M$.

If it's M$'s driver causing the problem? M$.

Should Intel have caught it sooner? It sounds to me like they did, but there was nothing that they could do about it. If it's totally M$'s fault, what can Intel do to fix it? Not a thing.

Should Intel have delayed the product? Nah. Why? Two reasons: 1) It still has better power consumption than the old, even with this flaw. 2) If the flaw is completely from M$'s software, then a simple patch/update will solve all problems with it. So why delay the hardware? The customer is still better off with the new over the old, and all problems should go away with a simple software update.

Granted, further data may change my outlook, but for right now, it totally looks like M$'s fault. But I agree that we should see the same tests done with MacOS and/or Linux to verify if this really is totally M$'s software at fault.

 

[Aaron McKenna]

Our gut feeling from dealing with all this is that Intel might have more to do with it than Microsoft. But we're in Wait and See mode.

 

[slvr_phoenix]

Our gut feeling from dealing with all this is that Intel might have more to do with it than Microsoft. But we're in Wait and See mode.

And maybe they did. Maybe it's all Intel's fault. It's kind of hard to make a decent judgement on that one way or the other when there's so much information missing, such as really basic things like if it's reproducable on a non-M$ OS.

But again, if there's really just a registry change that fixes the whole thing, then it's definately a software problem, which makes it completely 100% M$.

Now could Intel have maybe done more to raise awareness? Maybe. That depends on if they were hindered by an NDA or some such. Should Intel have delayed the launch for the fix? That's very debatable, depending a lot on if it's a hardware or software issue. All of this really hinges on umpteen different variables that are all unknowns right now.

 

[hergieburbur]

I am inclined to think that at the minimum, they share the blame, since even if it is wholey driver related, if Intel knew about it, they should have called M$ out on it.

I don't blame Intel for releasing it, as it is an improvement in many ways, but for trying to hide the fact that there is a problem.

 

[slvr_phoenix]

And if Intel was under an NDA?

 

[Aaron McKenna]

And if Intel was under an NDA?

Or vice versa? Our chaps are testing this, so wait for their results and we'll know.

 

[nobly]

I concur w/ slvr_phoenix. Given the current information, its MS's fault. (Sorry I forgot to vote before)
Its more than just simply blowing the whistle. I'm sure there's many issues with all kinds of hardware, regardless of who makes it!
But from the consumer's side, even w/ the battery loss, its still an improvement over the older generation notebooks. You get more battery life, you get more performance, heck it has 2 processors compared to 1! Can you really complain about them launching this platform? If everyone waited until their products were error-free, we'd still be stuck in the 386 age.

If I was in Intel's position, with this information that its MS's driver? Heck, launch that thing. Bottomline is that the consumer still benefits, even w/ this bug. And when they fix it, everyone will be even happier.

Now if more information comes out saying its a hardware issue, I would blame THG for publishing this article before they had all the information. To me, thats sensationalism journalism - not what I expect from this site.

 

[captainsniz]

A MS driver issue I can live with for a while, a hardware flaw in such a common area of use is simply not acceptable. I would have to blame BOTH on this one, even if it is a MS driver cause, Intel knew about this since before July and did nothing about it. I'd be extremely curious to see how the same system performed under Linux, this should have been done immediatly following the release of this article.

I have a new Acer Core Duo Travelmate scheduled for delivery today, I guess I'll tell the FedEx man to "return to sender" and reorder when this issue is settled. Why should consumers be stuck with a flawed unit?

 

[slvr_phoenix]

Why should consumers be stuck with a flawed unit?

I'm guessing that you've never in your life flashed firmware (such as BIOS) or updated software (such as Windows).

You're right. Why should consumers settle for anything less than absolute perfection, regardless of how much of an improvement it may be over the prior version?

Damn them for making the product so much better but still not perfect. Damn them! They should all burn in hell! They'll never see one penny of mine!

That was, by the way, sarcasm. A bit over the top, I admit, but I believe that it makes the point.

 

[captainsniz]

Please, you are taking my words completely out of context.

I'm saying, I paid a premium for a notebook that promised a certain amount of extended battery life under normal use conditions. Now all of a sudden, I should accept the fact that this unit will not perform up to spec...Yea right, from my perspective that should not be acceptable and if its as simple as NOT buying right now (telling the FedEx guy no) and waiting for the solution to come to light or seeing how this thing play out....I can wait.

If you can't wait and the USB / Battery thing is not a concern; then by all means buy. But to me, using gods gift of logic (you know, one of those things that separates us from animals), then this just simply does not make sense.

If it's as simple as a quick flash or a registry hack or updating a driver, that would be fine BUT the issue has still not been completely pinpointed and I'm not about to gamble on new technology with my own cash.

PS: slvr_phoenix - Thanks for the sarcasm an trying to flame me on this forum. I can see this is a wonderful, unbiased place to discuss technology issues...I won't be back. One question. When do you receive your next Intel paycheck?

 

[slvr_phoenix]

Please, you are taking my words completely out of context.

Actually, I'm not. IMHO you're acting pretty stupid.

Further, you're taking my words extremely out of context. Not only did my tag line make it pretty obvious that I was joking, but even my signature makes it clear that I'm not a serious person.

I'm saying, I paid a premium for a notebook that promised a certain amount of extended battery life under normal use conditions. Now all of a sudden, I should accept the fact that this unit will not perform up to spec...Yea right, from my perspective that should not be acceptable and if its as simple as NOT buying right now (telling the FedEx guy no) and waiting for the solution to come to light or seeing how this thing play out....I can wait.

It's your choice of course, to be as anal about it as you like. But you're getting way better performance, and still getting a longer battery life, even with the bug. And so far it sounds like a simple software update in the future will fix it. IMHO you're way over-reacting.

If it's as simple as a quick flash or a registry hack or updating a driver, that would be fine BUT the issue has still not been completely pinpointed and I'm not about to gamble on new technology with my own cash.

What's there to gamble? That you'll have awesome performance? That your battery life will still be the longest out there? Because that's the absolute worst case scenario of that gamble. Yeah dude, that's such a harsh gamble to take.

PS: slvr_phoenix - Thanks for the sarcasm an trying to flame me on this forum. I can see this is a wonderful, unbiased place to discuss technology issues...I won't be back. One question. When do you receive your next Intel paycheck?

Hey, if you've got a stick shoved so far up your bum that you can't laugh at what was obviously meant to be humor, then good riddance to you. And if you let one person's comments completely decide for you the benefit of an entire community, then you're clearly too much of a numb nutz to fit into any society. Frankly, I don't see losing you as a loss. THGC is based on having a sense of humor. You don't have to be smart. You don't have to be unopinionated. And you don't even have to have any computer experience. But flirked if you can't laugh at something that's obviously silly. And you won't last a second at THGC if you take every little thing personally, because frankly, some of us will say the dumbest of things. So buh-bye. So long.