Core2Quad Q9650 vs I3 4370 Haswell dilemma

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tarmiricmi

tarmiricmi

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Aug 3, 2015
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Hello all,
i have Core2Quad Q9650 system for some 6-7 years now, together with GA-P35-S3G motherboard (Intel P35 chipset), 8 Gb DDR2 800 RAM (5-5-5-15), SSD (OS) + SSHD (data, virtual OSs), AMD Radeon 7770 1 Gb DDR5, Chieftec 300W PSU. Through time, i have added the USB 3.0 controller as well. I am satisfied with the performance of the system (although i wish to replace case for a more stylish one). I do not overclock the system because i like it to run cool and as silent as possible (overclock = more heat = less silent). I don't have the reason for overclock either - the system delivers more than adequate performance for me.
Now, i have noticed that i could have similar or, in some cases even better performance with cca. 50% better power efficiency with I3 4370 CPU. Q9650 TDP is 95W, i3 4370 is 54W. It is my goal to maximize performance with minimal power (and thus heat and silence) requirements.

Benchmarks: http://cpuboss.com/cpus/Intel-Core2-Quad-Q9650-vs-Intel-Core-i3-4370
http://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Core2-Quad-Q9650-vs-Intel-Core-i3-4370/m1706vs2817

I use PC for light programming, web design, browsing, virtualization (nothing serious), office work/apps as well, and occasionally, gaming with friends (reason for Radeon 7770) and music&videos. I sometimes use 20-30 tabs in browser, together with the winamp opened, downloads, office, and possibly one virtual machine. It all runs perfectly on Q9650.

My dilemma is, given mine usage habits, what could i expect from the I3 4370 (with the average motherboard and 8 GB DDR3 1600 RAM)? I know I3 has nearly double speed in single core apps, but i am not sure could I3s two cores + HT support some heavy work with multiple apps in background as i have described. For the games, i am sure that the I3 + Radeon 7770 would beat the Q9650 + Radeon 7770. I3 system would be definitively more future proof, as in time, i could replace the I3 with the I7 (and add up to 32 Gb RAM). As i have said, the only reason why i would replace CPU, mobo and RAM is because of the low power and heat generated (while keeping the similar performance level, if possible). On the other hand, i am well aware that Core2Quad is a dead platform - should something break (mobo, cpu, ram) - i will have to upgrade anyway.

Any experiences/opinions?

Thanks in advance.
 
Thanks for the link, it is very informative :)
It seems that the i3 trashes any core2quad regarding any use/app.

I will probably upgrade to Skylake I3 + DDR4 in a couple of months (even better performance per watt).
 
If I understood correctly you are very satisfied with the performance and you are only concerned about consumption (environment) and noise level.

I would suggesst therefore:
1. Keep your CPU because on the one hand t will consume a few watts more but on the other hand a new system will harm the environment > 100times more (all over considered).
2. Invest in a good and quiet CPU Cooler which brings you to your target to have a quiet PC.

Hope I could help.
 
The thing flies - with the SSD, there exists virtually no lag whatsoever. I use Artic Cooling Freezer 7, is there something better regarding cooling socket 775?
 
The i3 will smash any Core 2 Quad, and even compete with older i7s like the 920. It might not matter to you though, it's all about what you use it for.

It's a question of the power savings being enough to offset the cost. You would need to buy new RAM and a new motherboard.

In my opinion, stick with what you have until you have a strong reason to replace it. Tech will only get cheaper and better.
 
There is one good reason to upgrade, i'm using Gigabyte's EasyTune utility which controls the speed of the cpu fan (i set it to minimal). However, EasyTune is known to be buggy and causes problems with all Windows 7-10. Other CPU control software (SpeedFan) does not recognize my mobo (GA p35 s3g). When EasyTune crashes, the cpu fan is back to stock speed and its noisy.



I reckon the CPU fan control problem is solved on Haswell mobos?
 
You got it mostly right. I have very similiar computer and it's single core performance is pretty weak. I3 4370 is very superior. Even in total performance it's very comparable because of HT. After all, both of those cores are really fast and so much faster than old core 2 quoad.

Also, newer models, starting from the first get iSeries after Core 2, they have been improved greatly in multiprosessing. The different cores of the CPU still share the memory and other hardware, and that management has been improved a lot, resulting in better performance while using several cores at the same time. Symmetric multiprocessing has difficulties, even when running completely unrelated software, as they still share the OS and it's common resources such as API libriaries.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cache_coherence
I think the above mentioned 10 years of Intel beachmark partially refers to this, in poor memory performance of core 2.



But, I don't think it will be a good upgrade. Most of the time your computer is not fully loaded on CPU, not even on one core. So the few peaks where your CPU could be more powerful, are not that often. To make an upgrade like that reasonable, you should switch to 4 core model, so that it's overall performance improves a lot. And although Radeon 7770 would be OK, not really great but overall OK companion for dual core, it would kinda be weak for quad core.(I mean current Iintel models, not that old core 2 quad)

If your SSD is old enough, a newer SSD will give you a little bit more performance and might be OK upgrade.

But in between the lines, I can see you want to upgrade, maybe even pretty much made up your mind. People usually rationalise what they want with fairly light arguments, just as the desire to save electricity, or difficulty with one small program . There's nothing really wrong with that. But if you are going to upgrade, at least get a better CPU. If you also buy a new decent graphics card, you can keep the old computer together as it is, functional and thus sell it off or to give someone, like a young or old relative. It's not really great to upgrade nearly everything from and old computer, and then have the rest floating around as useless junk. Even if someone would buy the pieces, most people want a complete computer.
 
If the memory bandwidth is holding CPU back, how about changing mobo and ram? I can find 775 mobo with DDR3. Would the Core2quad benefit from ddr3 1600 (dont know the corresponding latencies) in comparison with the ddr2 800 5-5-5-15 - any significant difference? I think that any potential gains, if any, would be 5-6%, at most.

Regarding SSD, it is the Sandisk Ultra series. The problem is that the mobo supports only SATA2, while the SSD is SATA3 - thus not properly utilized. Anyway im not sure if i would notice any difference with SATA3.
 
Now you have come a long way from your first driving thought to save energy (less heat - more quite) to - I think - it seems it itches you a lot under the finger to "I really need to upgrade somehow very fast" 🙂

I really believe you will notice very, very little improvement with your usage if you start to either to change your SSD or your CPU to i3 4370 and your motherboard. With your approach you will end up in spending a lot of money with almost no result. Would be a pity.

My best advice
1. If you want a more quiet rig, choose a very quiet cooler for your case and you might be happy again for quite some time or
2. Wait a bit more and invest your saved money now until Skylake non K i5 will be in the market and then change to generation 6 (quite a bit more power efficient thant 4th gen. ). You will be happy that you managed to not give in the feeling - I must buy now something 🙂
3. Dont go back to 2 Cores. You have now already 4 Cores. Go again for 4 Cores because the next CPU you will have again several years . Otherwise in a couple of months your fingers get itchy again to I must change from i3 to i5.

I know it is difficult not to give in to the feeling: I want buy now. I have a similar situation and wanted to upgrade lately to i5 4690 but I will manage to wait a few days/weeks longer for Skylake because it is a step of 2 generations.

Hope I could help a bit 🙂
My fingers are also itchy 🙂
 


Core 2 is slow by the CPU itself, in memory bandwidth by it's memory controller which is much weaker than similiar aged Athlons ect. which also used DDR2. Generally faster memory will make very little effect on the speed on computer, the only point to use fast memory is when overclocking, so that the memory will support the faster FSB all multiplier-locked CPUs have to be driven in order to overclock. And also the cache coherenceI referred to, and major improvements on later moders, mostly come from more intelligent handling of it, not faster memory controller.


Sata2 is fine for a new SSD. It will limit the maxium burst speed of new SSDs(continuous read/write) as they are faster than sata2 on that mode, but that's already very fast. Regural consumer SSDs are still slower than sata2 in 4K reads and writes which is the most important characteric of a disk, as most of the time the drive is being read and written in small non-continuos pieces all over the drive. Beachmarks refer this as 4K IOPS. SSDs have developed very fast, a new SSD and maybe 2-3 years old models are not that far in terms of speed, but models older than that are noticebly slower than new models.
 

The problem with this is in 6-10 months the skylake i7 may well be cheaper than the 4790k, ddr4 will more widespread and cheaper, if you could maybe wait and get skylake i3/pentium next month I think you'd be better off.
 
Well, it may be, but when you make an advancement with four generations, it doesn't matter any more. Skylake is not a big, radical improvement, in my view, especially given the current outrageous prices.
 
1) You have a 7770. i5's are good for 980/390X class GPUs.
2) You really don't need i7s if you don't intend to do CrossFire or SLI.
3) Why even buy the 4790K? Get the i7 5750C if anything. Get the newer, faster tech.

Either don't waste your money, or do it properly.
 
Seriously, if you are happy with your system and don´t need more performance than you should keep your system to protect the environment.
You start from assumption that hace nothing to do with reality.
Your 9650 has a TDP of 95 Watt but will use during your normal usage maybe only around 30W on average.
Your suggested I3 might use only 20W.

The production of your new build will consume so much energy - you would never save this energy with a 10W difference.
Additionally you will have a lot of work to get your system running with OS, programms etc. on a new build.

Keep your system until you need more performance is my advice.
 
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