[SOLVED] Could my motherboard be 'bottlenecking' my CPU?

[stako2908]

AMD FX8300@3.30Ghz
GTX 1050ti 4GB
8GB DDR3
500GB HDD
Motherboard:MSI 760GM-P21(FX)
Im feeling so stupid cause i got this idea a whole year after upgrading processor on my PC,but here we go:
The thing is,my configuration isnt that great for the new-gen games,but i feel like it should be able to run all the old ones fine.But,i decided to get Far Cry 4 a few days ago,and i couldnt run it @60FPS even at low settings.I started searching around the internet now and i found out it's not 100% sure that my CPU can run well on this motherboard.Could this be causing the issue,or should i search for the problem in something else?

 

[King_V]

Unlikely to be the motherboard. I have heard that some of the AM3 boards struggle with some processors due to VRMs getting hot, or you may be getting thermal throttling on the CPU if you don't have good airflow, but my knowledge of the pre-Ryzen AMD cpus is VERY limited, so I hope someone else can chime in as well.

Doing a quick search, it seems that, while your CPU hits the "recommended" requirements level, your GPU, while being above the "minimum" is below the "recommended"

To be absolutely sure, running something like HWInfo to graph your CPU, GPU, RAM, etc., usage over time while playing the game would be a good idea, to definitely nail down what the limiting factor is.

If anything is running at or near 100% for any duration, that's where your weak link would be.

 

[Calvin7]

BIOS version H.B or newer required.

 

[RememberThe5th]

Download hwinfo64 run it in sensor mode, then start up the game.
Take screenshot of it (alt+prnt screen), where says your motherboard name and cpu temps, then upload to hosting site.

Im bit worrying about your vram temps.

 

[stako2908]

Download hwinfo64 run it in sensor mode, then start up the game.
Take screenshot of it (alt+prnt screen), where says your motherboard name and cpu temps, then upload to hosting site.

Im bit worrying about your vram temps.

I ran MSI Afterburner,and both CPU and GPU were at about 50%,but single core usage was high in 1 or 2 cores.Temps were all fine,none above 55 degrees.

 

[stako2908]

BIOS version H.B or newer required.

So i should upgrade my BIOS then?I never did that,could you help me out on how to do it?

 

[DavidM012]

No heatsink on the vrm and only 4+1 power phase. So not suited to the octa core cpu. It is thermally throttling under the load of a more modern (but still dated) title. What heat sink is on the cpu?

If you switch off 4 cores in the bios and treat the cpu as a 4300 you might be able to play the game. The extra threads won't have much impact, I think having 4 extra threads on an octa core kind of adds a bit of polish to windows so that the game can have more of it's own dedicated threads but, if the system is going unstable under load then that's the symptom of the problem.

Afterburner doesn't report the vrm temp which could be much higher you need a thermal probe to get a read on it. 55c on the package temp is pretty close to the limit for an fx under load (assuming you're reading the cpu and not the gpu temp) it might be getting close to the margins where it begins to throttle. You don't want to go over 62c or near it on a fx. it all looks like you're in the marginal territory where things are unclear or close enough to the limit that you're getting instability.

Should also use hwinfo64 it's more accurate. There's 2 metrics on the fx cpu the package temp which is the temperature of the cores and the cpu temp which is the temp. at the socket. And amd overdrive is what most people would say gives the best read on fx thermals.

Only 8gb's of memory also puts things in a position of being on the margins, what is the memory usage of the game when it's running? Windows might be paging out like crazy.

And no ssd, only a hdd, if anything is bottlenecking it would be that. Mebbe 5mb/s data transfer rate or something?! good grief. So overall the system might be too weak and you've hit the wall with what it can do there.

 

[stako2908]

No heatsink on the vrm and only 4+1 power phase. So not suited to the octa core cpu. It is thermally throttling under the load of a more modern (but still dated) title. What heat sink is on the cpu?

If you switch off 4 cores in the bios and treat the cpu as a 4300 you might be able to play the game. The extra threads won't have much impact, I think having 4 extra threads on an octa core kind of adds a bit of polish to windows so that the game can have more of it's own dedicated threads but, if the system is going unstable under load then that's the symptom of the problem.

Afterburner doesn't report the vrm temp which could be much higher you need a thermal probe to get a read on it. 55c on the package temp is pretty close to the limit for an fx under load (assuming you're reading the cpu and not the gpu temp) it might be getting close to the margins where it begins to throttle. You don't want to go over 62c or near it on a fx. it all looks like you're in the marginal territory where things are unclear or close enough to the limit that you're getting instability.

Should also use hwinfo64 it's more accurate. There's 2 metrics on the fx cpu the package temp which is the temperature of the cores and the cpu temp which is the temp. at the socket.

Only 8gb's of memory also puts things in a position of being on the margins, what is the memory usage of the game when it's running? Windows might be paging out like crazy.

And no ssd, only a hdd, if anything is bottlenecking it would be that. Mebbe 5mb/s data transfer rate or something?! good grief. So overall the system might be too weak and you've hit the wall with what it can do there.

Well thanks,i guess i can't do anything about all that.I will try to update the BIOS and see if it helps.Im using stock heat sink and the stock cooler.And yeah,i forgot to add-i had weird problem when playing CSGO few months ago-the Afterburner would show CPU temps over 200C,and the FPS would suddenly drop.I know it couldnt possibly go that high,but it could be connected to all this stuff.

 

[DavidM012]

You can switch off 4 cores. If the cpu was hitting 200c it would be dead so it's a false reading. Hwinfo64 will be more accurate. It's possible with 4 cores off it will run the game, but the mem. and hdd. could also be a bottleneck. If you were to follow a guide for optimizing windows services and reduce processes running in the background it will free up some resources. *don't turn off windows defender or windows updates. And you need the latest nvidia driver 430.64 the earlier one has a security hole.

A tune up might or might not bring it back from the red a bit. Also Run disk clean up and wise reg. cleaner. Finally if you run Userbenchmark and post the results it will help highlight any problems.

 

[TJ Hooker]

I ran MSI Afterburner,and both CPU and GPU were at about 50%,but single core usage was high in 1 or 2 cores.Temps were all fine,none above 55 degrees.

Many utilities don't measure FX CPU temps properly, best way is to use AMD Overdrive to measure thermal margin. Higher is better, if you're getting close to 0 that's bad.

Was there a VRM temp listed? If not, try hwinfo64 as suggested above. What was the max single core usage? Is CPU clock speed stable under load (i.e. no large dips)?

 

[geofelt]

Your motherboard is not exactly be found on this list"

Motherboard tier list: Other AM3+ chipsets

Other AM3+ chipsets (880G/ 760G/ etc): If you’re looking to get a FX CPU, do not go below Tier 1, Tier 2 chipsets are NOT suitable for OCing with ANY FX, due to not good enough Power phases and heatsinks on VRMs. The 800 and 700 series chipsets are quite old, so go for them only if you...

forums.tomshardware.com

But similar models are very poor and are not recommended for FX6 let alone FX8.

FX at it's best is not good for gaming.
I think it is time to go modern intel 9th gen or ryzen.

 

[DavidM012]

The two bottlenecks are the hdd & 8gb which slows down windows paging and the 8 core on the 4+1 power phase vrm. An ssd would speed the 1st up and switching off 4 cores will turn the cpu into a 4300 which will stabilize temps and prevent the thermal throttling. it won't impact single thread performance only multicore & windows can have 2 threads and the game prolly only uses 2 threads anyway.

Upgrade to ryzen still has the system bottleneck with the hdd being v.slow which still means it would be sub-optimal. Upgrade ssd won't improve frame rates but will get the system to the point where it could play on low settings. A 250gb samsung 860 evo, pretty cheap. Far Cry 4 is several years old and not a modern aaa title so it should run & a system tune up will free some resources so it doesn't have to page as much. Won't be the most quality but what is, if you don't pay for it? Doesn't anyone just do as they're told these days?

 

[stako2908]

Well,i updated my BIOS,thinking it would fix the problem,but i started the game again and pretty much nothing changed.I did screenshot the temps in the HWinfo though,and i feel the CPU temp under motherboard section is high.Any idea on how to fix it?
http://prntscr.com/nofph7

 

[geofelt]

You are not showing the cpu temperatures.
The chart on the right indicates 70c. which is too much for a FX processor and you are likely throttling.

Not much you can do about that, even with a good cooler.
If you take the case covers off and direct a house fan at the innards, you might do better.

 

[stako2908]

You are not showing the cpu temperatures.
The chart on the right indicates 70c. which is too much for a FX processor and you are likely throttling.

Not much you can do about that, even with a good cooler.
If you take the case covers off and direct a house fan at the innards, you might do better.

Well,the case is already off.Anything else i can try to do?

 

[TJ Hooker]

See my comment above.

 

[stako2908]

See my comment above.

I downloaded Overdrive and played for a couple of minutes-thermal margins are at about 40c.
None of the cores are hitting 100%,and the usage of whole CPU is about 50%.3.5 out of 8gb of ram is used.50% usage of the GPU also.Still,fps doesnt go above 50.

 

[TJ Hooker]

So lowest thermal margin you was 40C? Were you running a game in windowed mode and viewing the thermal margin simultaneously, or just minimizing the game to check temps? If it's the latter that isn't a very good method. Better way would be to run a stress test like Prime95 v26.6 (small FFTs test) and monitor temp concurrently.

While running the stress test, also watch CPU frequency. Make sure it is staying around 4GHz with no dips.

What was the highest usage on a single core? Again, you have to either use a monitoring tool that records max values or play the game in windowed mode so that you can look at usage concurrently.,

 

[stako2908]

So lowest thermal margin you was 40C? Were you running a game in windowed mode and viewing the thermal margin simultaneously, or just minimizing the game to check temps? If it's the latter that isn't a very good method. Better way would be to run a stress test like Prime95 v26.6 (small FFTs test) and monitor temp concurrently.

While running the stress test, also watch CPU frequency. Make sure it is staying around 4GHz with no dips.

What was the highest usage on a single core? Again, you have to either use a monitoring tool that records max values or play the game in windowed mode so that you can look at usage concurrently.,

Yeah,i didnt see it going lower than that.I was minimizing the game to check it,but i was doing that in pretty much splitsecond,so I dont think temps could change that much,if at all.I cant find that version online,none of the downloads seem to work.I turned the turbo off(by changing power saving settings to 99% instead of 100%),so the frequency isn't going up.I even tried to play with only 4 cores by turning off the other 4 in BIOS,but that didn't help either.Searching on the youtube,a confing with CPU worse than mine is pulling off 60fps on ultra,while i cant even play it on low.Im pretty sure there's some kind of problem messing this up,but i have no idea what it might be.Thought about changing HDD,but i dont think it would cause constantly low fps,so it's probably something else.

 

[TJ Hooker]

You can just download the latest version of prime95 and disable AVX. View: https://www.reddit.com/r/intel/comments/78xi6t/psa_to_everyone_wondering_what_version_of_prime95/


You turned turbo off, so the CPU is staying at 3.3 GHz? Well yeah, an FX CPU running at 3.3 GHz is not going to perform great. What is this worse CPU you're seeing on youtube?

 

[stako2908]

You can just download the latest version of prime95 and disable AVX. View: https://www.reddit.com/r/intel/comments/78xi6t/psa_to_everyone_wondering_what_version_of_prime95/


You turned turbo off, so the CPU is staying at 3.3 GHz? Well yeah, an FX CPU running at 3.3 GHz is not going to perform great. What is this worse CPU you're seeing on youtube?

Thanks,i will try it out and screenshot it to you as I get home.
Turbo mode wasn’t off till today,i tried turning it off to see if it will help with CPU temps,but seems like it didn’t.Saw the Fx6300 and gtx1050ti (same graphics as mine)

 

[DavidM012]

Prime 95 is not the app to be running on your pc. We already know it's too hot. Prime 95 will stress the system more than regular gaming, hence it will get hotter. No need to do it, don't go there. All you might succeed in doing is heating up so much the system shuts down. Great discovery.

If you were to follow my suggestions, something would change. Switching off 4 cores in the bios will reduce the cpu temperature. But it won't particularly impact gaming performance on a game that only uses 2 cores and 2 threads. You will have 4 cores available, 2 for windows and 2 for the game.

Nothing more can be done. This effort is only to try to reduce temps without spending any money. The mobo is too limited for overclocking, not that it would do much anyway, & the odds are that your psu isn't suited to overclocking either.

8gb of ram is also quite limited that means windows will have to page out to the slow hdd which is another system bottleneck. Freeing up some resources with a windows tuneup to reduce background processes will mean it has to page out to the hdd less.

None of it may be enough to boost the system to reach 60fps on far cry 4. You should be able to play at a lower resolution of say, 1024x1048 or 1024x768, all sub hd and not very pretty, but short of spending on upgrades there isn't anything else to be done.

You felt it should be able to run far cry 4 but it could much be the case that the system doesn't feel like it. You are already running into thermal trouble running an octa core cpu on a board not suited f'rit. Far Cry 3 by the way, is pretty heavy for an fx, so 4 with an upgraded engine and more effects, is probably actually heavier.

The line should be drawn there really. You can try a tune up and get your system doing the best it can and that will simply inform you of the need to improve it if you want to run titles like far cry 4.


User benchmark will give a clearer picture of what's going on than Prime 95. Fyi, an entry level ryzen will exceed the performance of an overclocked fx, by a significant amount, without even being overclocked. Here's a list of the cpu-z bench scores for some common cpus.

No need to buy a 6300 cpu. Just switch off 2 cores in the bios, of your existing CPU, and it will in effect be a 6300. Switching off 4 cores will really flatten your temps. That's the only free way to do it you have available right now.

The sole purpose of switching off some of the cores is to see if removing the thermal throttling will help the frame rates any. That's all.

*I would argue that first tuning up your pc is a necessary step before deciding whether to upgrade the core (cpu ram &mobo) or the gpu.

*Before upgrading gpu you still need to address the thermal throttling of the octa core cpu on the board that isn't suited f'rit, by turning off some of the cores in the bios.

*Upgrading to an ssd will improve system performance.

*Upgrading your cpu, mem, board, gpu and hdd to an ssd together, will run a wider variety of games without any nonsense.

*You're current build is overall quite weak. Obviously if you want more then you'll have to buy more. You should be able to find something to numb your mind from the pain.

 

[TJ Hooker]

We already know it's too hot.

Where have we definitively established this? I agree that P95 is unrealistically hard on your CPU compared to most games, it's just a convenient thing that you can run side by side with your monitoring software. The OP can also try running his game in windowed mode such that as soon as it starts stuttering he can look over at AMD Overdrive without minimizing.

None of it may be enough to boost the system to reach 60fps on far cry 4. You should be able to play at a lower resolution of say, 1024x1048 or 1024x768, all sub hd and not very pretty, but short of spending on upgrades there isn't anything else to be done.

If he's CPU bottlenecked lowering the resolution/settings isn't going to help. If he's overheating it could actually make things worse.

 

[DavidM012]

Unless the cores are switched off. True he hasn't given out a lot of definitive info beyond, 'it's not doing what I want'. Such as temps from hwinfo and overdrive and run userbenchmark, lots of work to do there yet! And all pretty likely that the game is too heavy for the system.

 

[stako2908]

Prime 95 is not the app to be running on your pc. We already know it's too hot. Prime 95 will stress the system more than regular gaming, hence it will get hotter. No need to do it, don't go there. All you might succeed in doing is heating up so much the system shuts down. Great discovery.

If you were to follow my suggestions, something would change. Switching off 4 cores in the bios will reduce the cpu temperature. But it won't particularly impact gaming performance on a game that only uses 2 cores and 2 threads. You will have 4 cores available, 2 for windows and 2 for the game.

Nothing more can be done. This effort is only to try to reduce temps without spending any money. The mobo is too limited for overclocking, not that it would do much anyway, & the odds are that your psu isn't suited to overclocking either.

8gb of ram is also quite limited that means windows will have to page out to the slow hdd which is another system bottleneck. Freeing up some resources with a windows tuneup to reduce background processes will mean it has to page out to the hdd less.

None of it may be enough to boost the system to reach 60fps on far cry 4. You should be able to play at a lower resolution of say, 1024x1048 or 1024x768, all sub hd and not very pretty, but short of spending on upgrades there isn't anything else to be done.

You felt it should be able to run far cry 4 but it could much be the case that the system doesn't feel like it. You are already running into thermal trouble running an octa core cpu on a board not suited f'rit. Far Cry 3 by the way, is pretty heavy for an fx, so 4 with an upgraded engine and more effects, is probably actually heavier.

The line should be drawn there really. You can try a tune up and get your system doing the best it can and that will simply inform you of the need to improve it if you want to run titles like far cry 4.


User benchmark will give a clearer picture of what's going on than Prime 95. Fyi, an entry level ryzen will exceed the performance of an overclocked fx, by a significant amount, without even being overclocked. Here's a list of the cpu-z bench scores for some common cpus.

No need to buy a 6300 cpu. Just switch off 2 cores in the bios, of your existing CPU, and it will in effect be a 6300. Switching off 4 cores will really flatten your temps. That's the only free way to do it you have available right now.

The sole purpose of switching off some of the cores is to see if removing the thermal throttling will help the frame rates any. That's all.

*I would argue that first tuning up your pc is a necessary step before deciding whether to upgrade the core (cpu ram &mobo) or the gpu.

*Before upgrading gpu you still need to address the thermal throttling of the octa core cpu on the board that isn't suited f'rit, by turning off some of the cores in the bios.

*Upgrading to an ssd will improve system performance.

*Upgrading your cpu, mem, board, gpu and hdd to an ssd together, will run a wider variety of games without any nonsense.

*You're current build is overall quite weak. Obviously if you want more then you'll have to buy more. You should be able to find something to numb your mind from the pain.

Thanks for such a great explanation buddy.I guess i will have to upgrade my whole PC if i want to play any better game,and I will look into that,since upgrading 1 by 1 part isn't really worth it.I think i will risk it and try to monitor the temps with Prime 95 if that will help diagnose the problem.If there is anything else I can do or some info i need to give you just let me know and i'll do it,I just wanna make sure it isn't something stupid causing an issue (cause it showed in HWinfo that my cores are working @1.6Ghz before i updated my BIOS to the newest version,could be something basic i didn't do again)