Couple more random questions

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.strategy (More info?)

A)
OK, I keep hearing all these raves about the Arcbound Ravager, but
I'm not seeing how he's that much better than the Arcbound Crusher.

Arcbound Crusher
{4}
Artifact Creature
0/0
Trample
Whenever another artifact comes into play, put a +1/+1 counter on
Arcbound Crusher.
Modular 1 (This comes into play with a +1/+1 counter on it. When it's
put into a graveyard, you may put its +1/+1 counters on target artifact
creature.)

Arcbound Ravager
{2}
Artifact Creature
0/0
Sacrifice an artifact: Put a +1/+1 counter on Arcbound Ravager.
Modular 1 (This comes into play with a +1/+1 counter on it. When it's
put into a graveyard, you may put its +1/+1 counters on target artifact
creature.)

Yes, the Crusher cost 2 more so comes out a little later.
But they both start at the same strength while the Crusher gets Trample.
Plus the Crusher gets his tokens when you _play_ an artifact, so you
get them sooner, more often, and get to keep the artifact!

Yes, I can see that Ravager isnice for engines that trigger off
sac'ing artifacts (Disciple, etc.), but is that really that big
an advantage?

Throwing away all those cards and tokens seems wasteful when they
could be doing useful things. Sure the Ravager is a good way to
dump something before it gets killed or destroyed, but is it really
the better of these two cards?

B)
Just pulled a Planar Portal, but I've never heard much about it.
It seems a reusable Tutor would get good reviews especially with the
artifact acceleration in Mirrodin block. Is there some reason this
isn't a more oft seen card?

Planar Portal
{6}
Artifact
{6}, {T}: Search your library for a card and put that card into your
hand. Then shuffle your library.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.strategy (More info?)

"Sorcier" <sNoErMcOier@cavtel.net> wrote in message
news:blxoc.93$i83.51204@news.uswest.net...
> A)
> OK, I keep hearing all these raves about the Arcbound Ravager, but
> I'm not seeing how he's that much better than the Arcbound Crusher.

Ravagers work well in artifact decks since they basically make all your
creatures indestructible. Block my Myr Enforcer? Sure, damage on the stack,
sac my Enforcer, damage kills your blocker and my Ravager is bigger for next
time. Even if you kill the Ravager, it's arcbound so all its counters move
onto something else which will pound you instead of the Ravager pounding
you. Artifact lands let you ramp up quickly to the final blow. And it combos
well with Disciple of the Vault as you said.

> B)
> Just pulled a Planar Portal, but I've never heard much about it.
> It seems a reusable Tutor would get good reviews especially with the
> artifact acceleration in Mirrodin block. Is there some reason this
> isn't a more oft seen card?

It costs 6 mana. And 6 to use. That's pretty prohibitive even with
acceleration. I chalk this one under "If it was good, surely someone
would've broken it by now".

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.strategy (More info?)

> > A)
> > OK, I keep hearing all these raves about the Arcbound Ravager, but
> > I'm not seeing how he's that much better than the Arcbound Crusher.

> Ravagers work well in artifact decks since they basically make all your
> creatures indestructible. Block my Myr Enforcer? Sure, damage on the stack,
> sac my Enforcer, damage kills your blocker and my Ravager is bigger for next
> time. Even if you kill the Ravager, it's arcbound so all its counters move
> onto something else which will pound you instead of the Ravager pounding
> you. Artifact lands let you ramp up quickly to the final blow. And it combos
> well with Disciple of the Vault as you said.

The difference in between crusher and ravager is speed. I have a
crusher deck and routinely get to 7 or more counters however the
crusher gets stopped by tap target creature abilities, pacifism
variants, and remove from game effects. The ravager works because he
turns all your artifact creatures into possible monstrosities. Look
at it this way, I drop the crusher later and it takes longer for it
get up steam. The ravager is good to work as soon as it hits the
table with enough free artifacts such as welding jar, ornithopter,
artifact lands, and affinity cards, comboed with a skull clamp which
keeps the free artifact flow coming. By the time the crusher is
getting big I'm already being attacked by 5+ artifact creatures with a
disciple of the vault (or two!) out. "Here comes the real combat
trick that wins!" My opponent sacs all the creatures I blocked to the
ravager + all his other artifacts and then sacs the Ravager to use the
ravager's modular ability to pump an unblocked creature a huge amount
+ make me lose a ton of life. I die to a 12/12 frogmite/myr
enforcer/ornithopter. The benefit is that you don't know where the
real threat is coming from. You can pull off a weaker form of this
effect with the spawning pit and the crusher, but it probably won't
ever be as fast as Ravager Afinity. Note: You're right that this card
isn't very card effecient, Ravager Affinity eats thru its deck like a
wood chipper on steroids. In a large multiplayer enviroment the card
can spell death to deck out and nervous neighbors with card denial.
But for your standard 1 on 1 tourny it rocks out.

> > B)
> > Just pulled a Planar Portal, but I've never heard much about it.
> > It seems a reusable Tutor would get good reviews especially with the
> > artifact acceleration in Mirrodin block. Is there some reason this
> > isn't a more oft seen card?
>
> It costs 6 mana. And 6 to use. That's pretty prohibitive even with
> acceleration. I chalk this one under "If it was good, surely someone
> would've broken it by now".

It is an expensive card, but don't rule it out because it's expensive.
Darksteel Colossus makes it routinely in Twelvepost/Tooth n Nail deck
builds and I don't see a reason why this card couldn't be used at
least in the side board. Remember that cards that are used in tourney
ussually are ultra effecient especially now since control is unpopular
lately. But surprises still happen, experiment and see if this card
works for you in deck builds. Proxy off some regional winner's decks
and play them against your own. You'll see what works against certain
decks and what doesn't.

 

[Doyle]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.strategy (More info?)

Sorcier <sNoErMcOier@cavtel.net> wrote in message news:<blxoc.93$i83.51204@news.uswest.net>...
> A)
> OK, I keep hearing all these raves about the Arcbound Ravager, but
> I'm not seeing how he's that much better than the Arcbound Crusher.

Another way to look at these two cards is how they effect your tempo.
In an affinity deck, the quicker you are able to deploy your threats,
the cheaper the rest of the threats are. Also since most of your
threats are discounted in some way, you don't need to play with many
lands. So you can see where Ravager at its cheap CC fits in. Further
with Ravager you have the ability to alpha strike someone by saccing
your artifacts if they don't block Ravager and he is within range. If
you are playing with Ornithopters your opponent needs to be able to
block both creatures or you can load up the Ravager with counters and
then sacrifice it to itself to move the counters to the Ornithopter
before damage goes on the stack. Actually this trick works with any
creature but Ornithopter has flying.

Now compare it to the Crusher. First, it order to cast it you need to
have four mana. Any artifact lands or Chrome Moxes that you played
prior to its activation don't count towards its counters. The quick
threats of the affinity deck - Enforcer, Frogmite, Ornithopter - are
already in play. Most deck won't have a lot of cards in hand once they
hit four mana, but the affinity deck most assuredly won't have many.

Let's say you have two artficts in hand when you cast the Crusher. The
earliest you can cast it without mana acceleration is turn four.
Provided it doesn't get Sparksmith-ed, Sharpshooter-ed, Siege Gang-ed,
Shattered, Naturalized, Oxidized, ... you are still tapped out. After
drawing a land on turn five, you tap some land and cast two creatures.
Your Crusher is now a hill giant and your have no more artifacts in
hand. With the same board, Ravager could be lethal.

mypetrock

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.strategy (More info?)

Doyle wrote:

> Sorcier <sNoErMcOier@cavtel.net> wrote in message news:<blxoc.93$i83.51204@news.uswest.net>...
>
>>A)
>>OK, I keep hearing all these raves about the Arcbound Ravager, but
>>I'm not seeing how he's that much better than the Arcbound Crusher.
>
>
> If
> you are playing with Ornithopters your opponent needs to be able to
> block both creatures or you can load up the Ravager with counters and
> then sacrifice it to itself

OK, I'm thinking the "sac to itself for a suprise/versatile shift"
is the factor I missed in why it is so popular.
Reminds me of some goblins now. 😉

> Now compare it to the Crusher. First, it order to cast it you need to
> have four mana. Any artifact lands or Chrome Moxes that you played
> prior to its activation don't count towards its counters. The quick
> threats of the affinity deck - Enforcer, Frogmite, Ornithopter - are
> already in play. Most deck won't have a lot of cards in hand once they
> hit four mana, but the affinity deck most assuredly won't have many.

That explains a lot too.
The Ravager will be out contributing to Affinity sooner, giving
more stuff to sac.