Question Cpu clock below stock when under load

[ashiente]

I'm guessing it's the motherboard not giving enough juice for cpu to run, evga 1000 watts psu, 1080ti. You can see the rest on the hwinfo picture.

https://imgur.com/VW8fAzq

View: https://imgur.com/VW8fAzq

https://imgur.com/ob68JDJ

View: https://imgur.com/ob68JDJ

https://imgur.com/hTL9lpy

View: https://imgur.com/hTL9lpy


I was hoping there was some motherboard setting I could change to fix the issue but i have been fiddling around to no avail. LLC to extreme does nothing.

Windows is running on high performance energy mode

The cpu is watercooled an maxes at 45 celsius wich is way too low, idles around 29C.

Also I connected the pump to a fan header, so I was thinking maybe i'm getting the wrong readings but I dont think this makes any sense.

I'm getting i7 7700k scores on cinebench and I need better performance to get 90 fps on vr otherwise I wouldnt care.

Do you guys have any idea other than get a z390 motherboard? (this is a budget build I got everything at bargain prices)

Edit: I want to get stock performance, 4.6ghz all cores under load.

 

[white.a.drew]

I'm guessing it's the motherboard not giving enough juice for cpu to run, evga 1000 watts psu, 1080ti. You can see the rest on the hwinfo picture.

https://imgur.com/VW8fAzq

View: https://imgur.com/VW8fAzq

https://imgur.com/ob68JDJ

View: https://imgur.com/ob68JDJ

https://imgur.com/hTL9lpy

View: https://imgur.com/hTL9lpy


I was hoping there was some motherboard setting I could change to fix the issue but i have been fiddling around to no avail. LLC to extreme does nothing.

Windows is running on high performance energy mode

The cpu is watercooled an maxes at 45 celsius wich is way too low, idles around 29C.

Also I connected the pump to a fan header, so I was thinking maybe i'm getting the wrong readings but I dont think this makes any sense.

I'm getting i7 7700k scores on cinebench and I need better performance to get 90 fps on vr otherwise I wouldnt care.

Do you guys have any idea other than get a z390 motherboard? (this is a budget build I got everything at bargain prices)

Edit: I want to get stock performance, 4.6ghz all cores under load.

Is your bios up to date and do you have your chipset drivers installed these are the most common issues for poor CPU porformance

 

[ashiente]

Is your bios up to date and do you have your chipset drivers installed these are the most common issues for poor CPU porformance

Bios version is F5, I actually wanted to update bios but can't find where is my pendrive. I will try updating chipset drivers right now.

 

[ashiente]

Is your bios up to date and do you have your chipset drivers installed these are the most common issues for poor CPU porformance

Did update chipset drivers but one of the installers failed: mb_driver_614_serialio_30.100.2020.7 this one.

Performance hasn't improved, any other ideas? I will update the bios when I get the chance but I can't get a pendrive at this hour of the night so that will have to wait.

 

[white.a.drew]

Did update chipset drivers but one of the installers failed: mb_driver_614_serialio_30.100.2020.7 this one.

Performance hasn't improved, any other ideas? I will update the bios when I get the chance but I can't get a pendrive at this hour of the night so that will have to wait.

... So there is a issue right there. Your chipset drivers aren't initializing you need to figure something out with windows that is blocking you chipset
In cmd as admin run this cmd
"Sfc /scannow" no ""

 

[uWebb429]

@ashiente
The 9700KF has a 95W TDP rating. At default settings, it will power limit throttle so it does not exceed 95W. That is what your testing shows.

Try running ThrottleStop.

https://www.techpowerup.com/download/techpowerup-throttlestop/

Open the TPL window and check the Speed Shift box to enable Speed Shift Technology.

Check the MMIO Lock box near the top right.

Clear the Disable Controls box and increase the MSR PL1 and PL2 power limits. If you see a lock icon on the left side of this setting then the BIOS has locked it and you will not be able to increase the power limits. Most motherboards leave the power limits unlocked.

Upload some images of ThrottleStop including the main window, the FIVR and TPL windows. There might be a few tweaks available.

Your motherboard does not support a full speed all core overclock. You need a Z series board for that. The FIVR window should show your default turbo ratios.

 

[white.a.drew]

@ashiente
The 9700KF has a 95W TDP rating. At default settings, it will power limit throttle so it does not exceed 95W. That is what your testing shows.

Try running ThrottleStop.

https://www.techpowerup.com/download/techpowerup-throttlestop/

Open the TPL window and check the Speed Shift box to enable Speed Shift Technology.

Check the MMIO Lock box near the top right.

Clear the Disable Controls box and increase the MSR PL1 and PL2 power limits. If you see a lock icon on the left side of this setting then the BIOS has locked it and you will not be able to increase the power limits. Most motherboards leave the power limits unlocked.

Upload some images of ThrottleStop including the main window, the FIVR and TPL windows. There might be a few tweaks available.

Your motherboard does not support a full speed all core overclock. You need a Z series board for that. The FIVR window should show your default turbo ratios.

Thank you I didn't do any digging into this yet, I was trying to start with the simple quick stuff first. However he is still having a driver issue as well

 

[uWebb429]

@white.a.drew
You can see that the CPU is turbo power limit throttling during Cinebench testing, right at the 95W TDP value. If there are no options in the BIOS to increase the turbo power limits then this needs to be done while in Windows. As long as these limits are not locked by the BIOS, this is easy to do by using ThrottleStop.

The turbo power limits that are set to default values is a bigger problem than any driver issues.

 

[white.a.drew]

@white.a.drew
You can see that the CPU is turbo power limit throttling during Cinebench testing, right at the 95W TDP value. If there are no options in the BIOS to increase the turbo power limits then this needs to be done while in Windows. As long as these limits are not locked by the BIOS, this is easy to do by using ThrottleStop.

The turbo power limits that are set to default values is a bigger problem than any driver issues.

I knew this long ago forgot it, however like I said you are right and I haven't done much digging into this yet.

And this doesn't explain the failed chipset driver install

Unless I miss understood his explanation on what's happening there

 

[ashiente]

@ashiente
The 9700KF has a 95W TDP rating. At default settings, it will power limit throttle so it does not exceed 95W. That is what your testing shows.

Try running ThrottleStop.

https://www.techpowerup.com/download/techpowerup-throttlestop/

Open the TPL window and check the Speed Shift box to enable Speed Shift Technology.

Check the MMIO Lock box near the top right.

Clear the Disable Controls box and increase the MSR PL1 and PL2 power limits. If you see a lock icon on the left side of this setting then the BIOS has locked it and you will not be able to increase the power limits. Most motherboards leave the power limits unlocked.

Upload some images of ThrottleStop including the main window, the FIVR and TPL windows. There might be a few tweaks available.

Your motherboard does not support a full speed all core overclock. You need a Z series board for that. The FIVR window should show your default turbo ratios.

This was actually quiet helpful. It managed to keep stable to 4.3 ghz bt rising pl1 and pl2 to 150, it's maxing out at 125 watts though. As far as I know at stock it should go to 4.6 ghz all cores without OC.

Here are the pictures of Trhottlestop.

https://imgur.com/a/q9iQ6qK

View: https://imgur.com/a/q9iQ6qK

https://imgur.com/a/73lqL4L

View: https://imgur.com/a/73lqL4L

 

[ashiente]

... So there is a issue right there. Your chipset drivers aren't initializing you need to figure something out with windows that is blocking you chipset
In cmd as admin run this cmd
"Sfc /scannow" no ""

I did run this, and it said something in spanish that roughly translates as found damaged files and they have been repaired. I tried to install the driver again but I got the same error

My guess is that i'm getting that driver error because of the windows version im runing. Windows 10 pro Windows Feature Experience Pack 120.2212.4180.0

 

[ashiente]

@white.a.drew
You can see that the CPU is turbo power limit throttling during Cinebench testing, right at the 95W TDP value. If there are no options in the BIOS to increase the turbo power limits then this needs to be done while in Windows. As long as these limits are not locked by the BIOS, this is easy to do by using ThrottleStop.

The turbo power limits that are set to default values is a bigger problem than any driver issues.

Once the power limit bottleneck was resolved another bottleneck appeared EDP OTHER in core and ring. I used Intel Extreme Tuning Utility and raised Procesor Core IccMax. That solved EDP OTHER in core and now the cpu Boosts to 4.5Ghz all cores.


But now i'm still left with luck luster single core performance since in single core tests I cant get it past 4.7 and benchmarks come at the same as i7 7700k, but multithread is starting to get close to actual i7 9770k.

How do I solve Ring EDP OTHER bottleneck? I've been reading that you have to raise current power limit and i did so in Trothlestop but doesn't seem to do anything. Maybe it's locked??

Edit: EDP is always in red underload, and mostly in red when idle.

https://imgur.com/a/6l2bx98

View: https://imgur.com/a/6l2bx98

 

[uWebb429]

I used Intel Extreme Tuning Utility

I would suggest that you use XTU or ThrottleStop. Avoid using both of these programs at the same time. If you are not careful, you can end up with two different programs writing different values to the same CPU register. The results will be unpredictable and difficult to troubleshoot. Hopefully you decide to go with ThrottleStop. It has more useful features so you can maximize performance.

IccMax

Increase IccMax in ThrottleStop for both the core and the cache to the maximum, 255.75. You need to set each one individually. One of your screenshots above shows that IccMax was only set to 120.00. This can cause EDP OTHER throttling issues.

In the TPL window, clear the Sync MMIO box.
Check the MMIO Lock box.

For the turbo time limit, set this to the 28 second default value.

I would set the PP0 Power Limit to 0 and I would set the PP0 time limit to the minimum, 0.0010 seconds. After you do this, press Apply and then clear the PP0 Power Limit check box. This power limit is not necessary or not used on most recent CPUs.

The FIVR window shows that Speed Shift EPP is set to a value of 128. EPP controls whether the CPU will slow down when lightly loaded. An EPP setting of 128 or higher can prevent the CPU from reaching maximum performance. On the main screen of ThrottleStop, check the High Performance box to switch to the Windows High Performance power plan. After you do this, check the FIVR monitoring table to see if the Speed Shift EPP value changed. The Windows High Performance power plan usually sets EPP to 0 automatically for maximum CPU speed regardless of load.

If EPP is still sitting at 128, on the main screen of ThrottleStop, check the Speed Shift EPP box and change that from 128 to 0. You can click on the EPP value on the main screen to edit it. You only need to check this box if Windows is unable to control EPP.

When your computer is idle at the desktop, open the ThrottleStop C States window and see if any of the low power C states are being used. When you have a non Z series motherboard, if you want Intel Turbo Boost to work correctly, the low power C states must be enabled in the BIOS. If the C states are disabled in the BIOS, the CPU will not be able to use the maximum turbo multipliers.

After you get those settings fixed up, run the ThrottleStop TS Bench and set that to a 1 Thread 960M test. Exit your web browser, exit HWMonitor and anything else you can think of. While the TS Bench test is in progress, take and post a screenshot that shows the approximate maximum multiplier. A multiplier higher than 46 on the most active core would confirm that Intel Turbo Boost is working correctly.

The 49 multiplier when 1 core is active is nice in theory but is rarely if ever used. This is mostly a marketing gimmick by Intel. Windows has hundreds of tasks running in the background. These tasks are constantly waking up additional cores on a regular basis. This is what prevents the 1 core active multiplier from ever being used. Even if you have a very lean Windows install, it will still be next to impossible to ever see the 49 multiplier during a 1 thread test.

In the Options window, check the Windows Defender Boost box. This increases performance by taking care of a bug that is in Windows Defender. Intel XTU does not have this feature or any Speed Shift features and it is 10X more bloated in both memory and CPU cycles consumed compared to ThrottleStop. You will never see maximum performance with Intel XTU installed and running in the background. It is best to completely uninstall XTU.

Edit - Also clear the Thermal Velocity Boost box in the FIVR window. When this box is checked, it can cause throttling of this boost feature. Open the Limit Reasons window while you are CPU testing. Make sure HWiNFO is not running in the background because it can interfere with the reported limit reasons results.

 

[Phaaze88]

As far as I know at stock it should go to 4.6 ghz all cores without OC.

The cores' frequency scale depending on how many are active. THIS is that cpu at 'stock':
https://www.techpowerup.com/review/intel-core-i7-9700k/17.html

 

[white.a.drew]

I did run this, and it said something in spanish that roughly translates as found damaged files and they have been repaired. I tried to install the driver again but I got the same error

My guess is that i'm getting that driver error because of the windows version im runing. Windows 10 pro Windows Feature Experience Pack 120.2212.4180.0

What is your motherboard? Are you sure you are installing the right driver? Some boards will have the same name as older one but have a different rev number. So if you have a Mobo like mine it can be a Asus xxxx. But the new series of the same board will be the exact same name but somewhere hidden on the Mobo generally be like rev 2.0 or rev 1.x or rev, xxx they rename Mobo on so many dumb ways you may have the "right Mobo" wrong rev model

 

[ashiente]

I would suggest that you use XTU or ThrottleStop. Avoid using both of these programs at the same time. If you are not careful, you can end up with two different programs writing different values to the same CPU register. The results will be unpredictable and difficult to troubleshoot. Hopefully you decide to go with ThrottleStop. It has more useful features so you can maximize performance.


Increase IccMax in ThrottleStop for both the core and the cache to the maximum, 255.75. You need to set each one individually. One of your screenshots above shows that IccMax was only set to 120.00. This can cause EDP OTHER throttling issues.

In the TPL window, clear the Sync MMIO box.
Check the MMIO Lock box.

For the turbo time limit, set this to the 28 second default value.

I would set the PP0 Power Limit to 0 and I would set the PP0 time limit to the minimum, 0.0010 seconds. After you do this, press Apply and then clear the PP0 Power Limit check box. This power limit is not necessary or not used on most recent CPUs.

The FIVR window shows that Speed Shift EPP is set to a value of 128. EPP controls whether the CPU will slow down when lightly loaded. An EPP setting of 128 or higher can prevent the CPU from reaching maximum performance. On the main screen of ThrottleStop, check the High Performance box to switch to the Windows High Performance power plan. After you do this, check the FIVR monitoring table to see if the Speed Shift EPP value changed. The Windows High Performance power plan usually sets EPP to 0 automatically for maximum CPU speed regardless of load.

If EPP is still sitting at 128, on the main screen of ThrottleStop, check the Speed Shift EPP box and change that from 128 to 0. You can click on the EPP value on the main screen to edit it. You only need to check this box if Windows is unable to control EPP.

When your computer is idle at the desktop, open the ThrottleStop C States window and see if any of the low power C states are being used. When you have a non Z series motherboard, if you want Intel Turbo Boost to work correctly, the low power C states must be enabled in the BIOS. If the C states are disabled in the BIOS, the CPU will not be able to use the maximum turbo multipliers.

After you get those settings fixed up, run the ThrottleStop TS Bench and set that to a 1 Thread 960M test. Exit your web browser, exit HWMonitor and anything else you can think of. While the TS Bench test is in progress, take and post a screenshot that shows the approximate maximum multiplier. A multiplier higher than 46 on the most active core would confirm that Intel Turbo Boost is working correctly.

The 49 multiplier when 1 core is active is nice in theory but is rarely if ever used. This is mostly a marketing gimmick by Intel. Windows has hundreds of tasks running in the background. These tasks are constantly waking up additional cores on a regular basis. This is what prevents the 1 core active multiplier from ever being used. Even if you have a very lean Windows install, it will still be next to impossible to ever see the 49 multiplier during a 1 thread test.

In the Options window, check the Windows Defender Boost box. This increases performance by taking care of a bug that is in Windows Defender. Intel XTU does not have this feature or any Speed Shift features and it is 10X more bloated in both memory and CPU cycles consumed compared to ThrottleStop. You will never see maximum performance with Intel XTU installed and running in the background. It is best to completely uninstall XTU.

Edit - Also clear the Thermal Velocity Boost box in the FIVR window. When this box is checked, it can cause throttling of this boost feature. Open the Limit Reasons window while you are CPU testing. Make sure HWiNFO is not running in the background because it can interfere with the reported limit reasons results.

I would suggest that you use XTU or ThrottleStop. Avoid using both of these programs at the same time. If you are not careful, you can end up with two different programs writing different values to the same CPU register. The results will be unpredictable and difficult to troubleshoot. Hopefully you decide to go with ThrottleStop. It has more useful features so you can maximize performance.


Increase IccMax in ThrottleStop for both the core and the cache to the maximum, 255.75. You need to set each one individually. One of your screenshots above shows that IccMax was only set to 120.00. This can cause EDP OTHER throttling issues.

In the TPL window, clear the Sync MMIO box.
Check the MMIO Lock box.

For the turbo time limit, set this to the 28 second default value.

I would set the PP0 Power Limit to 0 and I would set the PP0 time limit to the minimum, 0.0010 seconds. After you do this, press Apply and then clear the PP0 Power Limit check box. This power limit is not necessary or not used on most recent CPUs.

The FIVR window shows that Speed Shift EPP is set to a value of 128. EPP controls whether the CPU will slow down when lightly loaded. An EPP setting of 128 or higher can prevent the CPU from reaching maximum performance. On the main screen of ThrottleStop, check the High Performance box to switch to the Windows High Performance power plan. After you do this, check the FIVR monitoring table to see if the Speed Shift EPP value changed. The Windows High Performance power plan usually sets EPP to 0 automatically for maximum CPU speed regardless of load.

If EPP is still sitting at 128, on the main screen of ThrottleStop, check the Speed Shift EPP box and change that from 128 to 0. You can click on the EPP value on the main screen to edit it. You only need to check this box if Windows is unable to control EPP.

When your computer is idle at the desktop, open the ThrottleStop C States window and see if any of the low power C states are being used. When you have a non Z series motherboard, if you want Intel Turbo Boost to work correctly, the low power C states must be enabled in the BIOS. If the C states are disabled in the BIOS, the CPU will not be able to use the maximum turbo multipliers.

After you get those settings fixed up, run the ThrottleStop TS Bench and set that to a 1 Thread 960M test. Exit your web browser, exit HWMonitor and anything else you can think of. While the TS Bench test is in progress, take and post a screenshot that shows the approximate maximum multiplier. A multiplier higher than 46 on the most active core would confirm that Intel Turbo Boost is working correctly.

The 49 multiplier when 1 core is active is nice in theory but is rarely if ever used. This is mostly a marketing gimmick by Intel. Windows has hundreds of tasks running in the background. These tasks are constantly waking up additional cores on a regular basis. This is what prevents the 1 core active multiplier from ever being used. Even if you have a very lean Windows install, it will still be next to impossible to ever see the 49 multiplier during a 1 thread test.

In the Options window, check the Windows Defender Boost box. This increases performance by taking care of a bug that is in Windows Defender. Intel XTU does not have this feature or any Speed Shift features and it is 10X more bloated in both memory and CPU cycles consumed compared to ThrottleStop. You will never see maximum performance with Intel XTU installed and running in the background. It is best to completely uninstall XTU.

Edit - Also clear the Thermal Velocity Boost box in the FIVR window. When this box is checked, it can cause throttling of this boost feature. Open the Limit Reasons window while you are CPU testing. Make sure HWiNFO is not running in the background because it can interfere with the reported limit reasons results.

Followed all isntructions and uninstalled XTU, performance is noticeable better than when I started digging into this issue but still there's some bottleneck it seems.

I'm getting some weird results, when I test on the Trhottlestop benchmark I dont get bottlenecked on the single core test and it goes up to 4.8 ghz. When I run it with 8 cores, I get casually bottle necked (EDP other ring) and get to 4.6 ghz.

When I run some games I get bottlecked all the time (EDP OTHER ring) and it only goes up to 4.5ghz.

In cinebench all cores go up to 4.5 ghz and single core does close to 4.8 ghz while getting casually bottlenecked (EDP other Ring), cinebench multicore score is 1000 points below stock performance, and single core is slightly above i7 7700k and 100 points below stock. https://www.cpu-monkey.com/en/cpu-intel_core_i7_9700kf

Another comment in this trhead state that this are the actual i79700kf stock frencuencies
https://www.techpowerup.com/review/intel-core-i7-9700k/17.html

btw I can't complete multicore tests more than once because vrms are thermal trottling at 110 C(only at full load on a stress test like cinebench), this motherboard seems to be garbage.

I took screenshots of everything that might help (settings and results).

https://imgur.com/a/HO6RRBH

View: https://imgur.com/a/HO6RRBH

 

[uWebb429]

it only goes up to 4.5ghz

I am not sure what is causing this problem. Try clearing the V-Max Stress box in the FIVR window.

In the TPL window check the MMIO Lock box at the top right. There is usually no need to check the Lock box in the Power Limits Control section.

EDP stands for Electrical Design Point. Intel does not do a great job of publicly documenting what can cause this type of throttling. You might be at the limit of what your motherboard can do with this CPU. You could really use a Z series board to get the most out of your unlocked K series CPU. Not that it would make a huge difference in most games or apps.

After you reboot and unlock the MSR power limits, I would just set PL1 and PL2 to the max, 4095. This and Lock MMIO should help avoid any power limit throttling issues.

Is IccMax set to 255.75 for both the core and the cache?