CPU overheating when idle and gaming

Dec 19, 2018
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I just recently made a new pc with a Ryzen 3 2200g. When it is idle the cpu has temps of around 60C. When gaming it reaches temps of around 85C. I am worried that i might have not applied enough thermal paste, causing such a high temp. My case has one corsair fan and i have not done a lot of cable managment. Help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.
 
Solution
If you are ONLY using the integrated graphics and do not have a discreet card installed, fine, you COULD get away with just a rear exhaust fan. If you have ANY discreet card considered entry level for gaming or higher, then yes, you NEED to have at least two fans installed, otherwise you are going to starve the cooler on the GPU card from having the fresh air it needs AND you are going to be using the rising hot air from the GPU card to cool your CPU with. Not a good configuration.

"Your testing" leaves a bad taste in mouth and I'd like to see graphical representations of "your testing" along with some empirical evidence (Of which there will be none) showing that your claims are accurate if you're going to make statements like that...
Check the temps in BIOS and see how it compares to your idle measurement, should be close if the reading is accurate.
It doesn't take much thermal paste, just a small dot in the centre is the most common method.

Just using the stock cooler? Are you sure the locking arm is fully engaged and the cooler is flat on the CPU?
 
The offset problem was supposed to have been resolved quite a while back, so if you are using an older version of Ryzen master, Core Temp or HWinfo, which are the only three utilities I'd recommend you OUGHT to be using, then I'd try updating to a newer version.

If you used the stock cooler, which you should have since I see no mention of an aftermarket cooler, then you should NOT have NEEDED to add ANY thermal paste, since that cooler comes with thermal paste preapplied on the bottom of the heatsink. You DO usually however have to remove the plastic liner protecting the preapplied thermal "pad" so if you didn't do that, or if you added thermal paste IN ADDITION to the thermal interface material it already comes with, you need to take it back off, clean the thermal paste off the top of the CPU and get as much of what you added OFF the surface of the preapplied thermal pad and remove the plastic liner covering the preapplied TIM.

Also, Volkgren is correct in that you need at least one intake and one exhaust fan, so if you don't have both of those (Should be one intake fan in front and one rear exhaust fan in the back location inside blowing out) you need to get another fan and set it up that way.
 
I'm going to disagree with needing two fans. One exhaust fan on the rear is enough. I still recommend having at least two, but you don't NEED two.
From my testing with intake fans they have very little effect on overall temperatures if there is sufficient exhaust fans, but what they do do is allow you to direct the cool air and filter the dust. It does depend on case design though. Having a single exhaust fan will make you need to clean out the dust a lot more often though. A single intake fan with no exhaust is terrible.

As an example, on one of my cases the front exhaust cooled the hard drives in front of it by a few degrees but had zero effect on CPU or GPU temperatures or on the system temp measured aournd the motherboard. Turning off the exhaust however had a dramatic effect.
 
If you are ONLY using the integrated graphics and do not have a discreet card installed, fine, you COULD get away with just a rear exhaust fan. If you have ANY discreet card considered entry level for gaming or higher, then yes, you NEED to have at least two fans installed, otherwise you are going to starve the cooler on the GPU card from having the fresh air it needs AND you are going to be using the rising hot air from the GPU card to cool your CPU with. Not a good configuration.

"Your testing" leaves a bad taste in mouth and I'd like to see graphical representations of "your testing" along with some empirical evidence (Of which there will be none) showing that your claims are accurate if you're going to make statements like that here and post them as factual.

The idea that intake fans don't have an effect on overall temperatures is not only ridiculous, it's potentially harmful, and can't stand on a site where we try to avoid saying or doing anything that might potentially be harmful to any of our users who might not know otherwise and take you word for fact. Please don't do that anymore.

It is 100% factual that a system with ONLY exhaust fans cannot keep even a fairly decent entry level gaming machine cool enough. If you are talking about a basic business machine or internet browsing machine without a discreet graphics card or higher TDP CPU, then fine, but saying that in conjunction with the kinds of systems we are typically talking about here is blatantly irresponsible.
 
Solution
I would still absolutely take the CPU cooler back off though and check to see that you have not applied too much paste, too little paste or that you didn't get the cooler fully seated correctly. It really sounds like a poor mounting job is to blame if your idle temps are in the 60's, but it's STILL a good idea to have adequate airflow though the case as the CPU temps are not the only thing you're dealing with potential problems on without it.

If you repasted the stock CPU cooler, did you scrape off all the thermal material that came preapplied to it in the beginning?
 
You're not offering evidence either. If you are going to require it of me do it yourself. Given your certainty you obviously must have some expertise and qualification into cooling systems yes? No harm in having two fans and I'm not disputing that it's better so if you wan't to state that as a Need go ahead, better to err on the side of caution, but consider this.

1 exhaust fan moving 40CFM would empty a 4 CFT case 10 times a minute
1 exhaust and 1 intake fan moving 40CFM will do exactly the same, 40 in, 40 out. All you have done is controlled where the air comes from.
Up until not many years ago many cases only had a single exhaust fan as standard and generally speaking worked just fine.
A good friend of mine has rebuilt every gaming PC he's owned since the 90's into the same tiny little beige box with a single 80mm exhaust fan and it runs a little hot, but not excessivley so
Removing hot air from the places it accumulates is far more important in cooling than pumping cool air in (provided the case is not sealed).
Industrial cooling for large scale rectifier systems before the days of air conditioning used the same principle - large exhaust fan high in the room and passive filtered vent low on the wall. You suck the hot air out and cool air naturally comes in to replace it.

It is 100% factual that using only exhaust fans can and does work, it's called negative pressure and is a well established cooling method.

Making a pretty graph of my results doesn't alter them or give them any more or less credence. But if it'll make you happy I'll stay out of discussions about intake fans in future, you seem quite triggered by it.
 
Any cooler should show 10-15c. over ambient if it is installed properly and gets a decent supply of airflow.
Your processor will throttle at 85c.

I would first remount the cooler.
Paste acts as an insulator; more is very bad.
A single rice sized drop will be sufficient and will spread out heat and pressure.
 
I wanted to stop derailing the thread and find some actual test results and it proved a little difficult.
Eventually I found this article which seems pretty good https://www.bit-tech.net/reviews/tech/the-big-cooling-investigation/2/
Probably worth reading and form your own conclusions rather than pay attention to our disagreement.

Surprisingly the best single fan result they got was a single side intake, but I note that case has drive cages down the whole front which might block any intake air to some degree. Still it's not what I was expecting.

But here's the bit that interested me taken form some of their results:
Sorry I tried to format it but the forum just removes extrra spaces.

...............No Fans......1 rear exhaust....1 intake, 1 exhaust
CPU............65.....................56...................52
GPU............57.....................58...................56
Chipset........41....................34...................29

Which to me shows that 1 fan is what I would call adequate and two fans is a little better.
As a side note, I have 3 140mm fans on my personal rig.
 


Please post as though you are talking to somebody who has been building systems for over 30 years when responding to me, since I have. Ok? Thanks.

Yes, I realize that negative pressure works well, it is the BEST configuration for optimal cooling performance, however, a single exhaust fan in a negative pressure situation is NOT going to cut it for a gaming system, like I said.

Now, if the OP is ONLY using integrated graphics, no discreet card, no high TDP processor, no overclocking of anything and minimal number of mechanical drives, then yes, it MIGHT be fine. It is STILL not a recommendable configuration even though some OEMs do this, but it can work ok. I would personally not want to subject all my hardware to higher thermal condititions unnecessarily when another fan can be had for maybe 8 bucks for a cheap one good enough to recommend and no more than 25 bucks max for an extremely excellent one, but whatever, I agree it can get by that way if absolutely necessary.

Would I EVER tell somebody that is a desirable configuration. No, I would not. And neither should you.

There is a reason why OEM systems fail earlier and more frequently than home brewed ones and that is not just due to the use of lower quality hardware. It's also due to the fact that those systems are exposed to higher thermal conditions over the entire life of the hardware, and higher thermal conditions USUALLY results in a decreased lifespan, especially the kind of thermal conditions we're talking about with this build even though I agree that the issue is probably NOT due to the lack of case fans. It's certainly NOT helping it either.

Honestly, my recommendation would be to put TWO exhaust fans in there, and at least one intake fan.

Here is my standard spiel on fans.

High static pressure fans are desirable for all intake fans, radiator fans or heatsink fans. All of those types of fans will usually encounter significant resistance to airflow, so having fans with higher static pressure is desirable in those applications.

Exhaust fans do not face much resistance, so using fans with high static pressure is not necessary in those locations, however, USING them will not hurt anything either. Technically, you generally want fans with the highest CFM and highest static pressure you can reasonably afford to purchase for intakes, heatsinks or radiators. Exhaust fans, the static pressure is not very important but high airflow (CFM) is generally desirable.

For most configurations 2 x120mm, 2 x140mm or some combination of the two for both intake and exhaust are sufficient. WHEN possible, using a 140mm fan is much preferred as you are able to move an equivalent amount of air as a 120mm fan at a lower RPM resulting in a lower overal noise level.

Negative pressure configurations offer the BEST cooling performance. Positive pressure configurations offer dust suppression. Neutral pressure, with an equal, or nearly equal amount of airflow coming in as what is going out, offers a good solution that meets both types halfway. This is the MOST recommended configuration. If you want the best cooling performance, then you might not only add another exhaust fan to that top rear position like I said, but make sure it is a high CFM model AND also maybe replace the current rear exhaust fan with a model that has a higher CFM rating as well.

BeQuiet fans are only good in regard to noise levels, and that is only because they tend to run their fans at a maximum RPM that is significantly lower than most other comparably sized fans. They are good for systems that don't need great cooling and silence is more important, although you can technically do that with any fan by adjusting the fan curve in the bios and capping it at a speed that is acceptable.

If performance is more important, I would stick to fans by Noctua (And yes, they have black models now so you are not stuck with baby poop brown), Thermalright (Not to be confused with Thermaltake) or even possibly the EVGA FX 140 or 120m fans which move a lot of air but are a bit noisier than these others. Corsair Maglev fans are also fairly good.


And yes, I can provide you page after page of empirical evidence that will demonstrate how a single exhaust fan is not going to be sufficient for the kinds of builds we're talking about, but not here. If you want to start a discussion about it I'd be happy to continue the conversation there where it doesn't continue to take the OPs thread off track.

Thanks.
 
I'm done with this, expressed my view so take it or leave it that's fine. I did provide some evidence, you are still just making claims. I've been building PCs since 386 days as well, so what. Experience doesn't automatically make anyone right. If it makes you feel any better I read your fan spiel and agree with it.

And also, I never claimed one fan was desirable or better I simply stated that you don't NEED two. With a bit of care you don't even actually need any but that's a whole other discussion. You won't kill a modern PC by running it with a single case fan, it may run a little hotter than is Ideal but it's not the end of the world.
 
Yes, there are definitely some situations where a passive system is desirable and feasible as well.

I'd sure prefer to know if the the OP is gaming on the integrated graphics or has a discreet card installed, and if so, what the model of the graphics card is. That could make a lot of difference as to THAT aspect of the conversation.

Again, I don't think the lack of case airflow is responsible for a 60 degree idle temp though. More likely it is either a bad mount or bad thermal paste application. I'd make sure it was all clean, had about enough paste to equal the exposed part of a #2 pencil eraser (Since the stock cooler is a low mounting pressure design. If it was an aftermarket cooler with a high mounting pressure design then a rice shaped application about the size of 1/3 of a pencil eraser or two grains of normal sized cooked rice would be fine.) Many methods really and a lot of them have no benefit over any other.

Most important thing is just not too little, not too much and fully secured to the backplate or mounting hardware. Make sure all four corners or both sides, depending on the cooler design, are fully secured.

This is for a different cooler, but you can clearly get the "gist" of what needs to be done when applying paste.

-Some methods "Recommended" around the web-
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-The likely, but undesirable results of those methods-
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-More promising methods-
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-Probable results-
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Notice that even with this method there is substantial filling of the heat pipe seams. It is NOT necessary to lay multiple lines along seams.


For a stock cooler with a low pressure mounting configuration I'd probably use about two to three times the amount seen in those second images which are for a high pressure mounting design.
 
85c. is the point at which your processor will throttle.
I think what you are seeing is heat building up to the throttle point when the cpu slows down and reduces heat.
The process repeats.

On cooling, I do not know what your case is.
But I would concentrate on getting cooling air INTO the case.
Whatever comes in will exit SOMEWHERE, taking component heat with it.

A nice descriptive of paste from darkbreeze.
The purpose of paste is to fill in microscopic air pits in the mating surfaces of the cpu and cooler.
Air is a very poor conductor of heat. Paste is much better but nowhere as good as metal to metal contact.

I would remount the cooler using the small rice sized drop method.
Also, the cooler needs to make level contact with the cpu die.
To do that with the amd cooler, you need to gradually tighten down the cooler in a crosswise pattern.
If you do it one at a time, it will not go on level.
 
A rice sized drop is good for most aftermarket coolers, because they use high mounting pressure. The stock cooler does not use high mounting pressure so I would probably recommend two or three rice grain size drops of paste dead center side by side or just one dollop of paste that is about equal to three grains of rice for that stock cooler which normally comes with a very thick preapplied thermal "pad" otherwise you will be unlikely to get the paste to actually squeeze outward from the center towards the edges and fill any convexity or concavity between the heat spreader and the bottom of the heatsink OR enough pressure to force it into the pits and valleys.

More is not usually better when it comes to paste. Usually, it's worse. One exception might be on some of the threadripper heat spreaders where they've tested them to show that more didn't really have a negative affect because, well, for whatever reason it didn't. Not sure I even trust that review 100% but Steve at Gamersnexus is ususally pretty trustworthy so I don't have any reason not to I guess.

For a stock cooler that you've taken the thermal pad off of, and you NEED to do that, scrape the thermal interface material off the bottom of the cooler and then clean both the bottom of the heatsink and the top of the CPU using 75-90% isopropyl alcohol, and then apply your paste to the top of the CPU and install the cooler.
 
Use the latest version of Ryzen master to measure your thermals. There is no longer any offset issue in the later versions as it's already been adjusted for.

https://www.eteknix.com/amd-ryzen-master-software-update-fixes-cpu-temperature-issues/

I might also consider getting a decent entry level aftermarket cooler for the CPU. Just a thought. The stock cooler is ok compared to past generations of stock coolers, but it's still not a terrific example of a CPU cooler when compared to half decent entry level coolers like the Deepcool Gammaxx 400, Cryorig H7 or even, cough, the Hyper 212 series for that matter.

The stock cooler is fine, but it's definitely going to be louder under demanding circumstances than almost any 120 or 140mm aftermarket heatsink fan assembly.