Question CPU stucking switching between PL1 and PL2

[Zakya]

I have a 13500 in a b660. When I run a stresstest after about 9 minutes it starts frantically switching between PL2 and then back to PL1 when it instantly throttles. Or atleast it goes like 10W over PL1. How can I fix this? PL1 is 100W and PL2 is 154W. I am using an asrock deskmeet b660. The psu that came with it is an "Greatwall" 500W unit. 80 plus bronze. My main ssd is a 980 pro with a heatsink. It has hundreds lf gigs free. I remember seeing similiar looking graph once in an ltt video. It could be that the vrms are overheating. HWInfo64 does not show vrm temps for my mb.

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=549&v=GvyQXkFUe3E

 

[Ralston18]

Update your post to include full system hardware specs and OS information.

Include PSU: make, model, wattage, age, condition (original to build, new, refurbished, used)?

Disk drive(s): make, model, capacity, how full?

Cooling system?

My thought is that there is a heat build up somewhere that after 9 minutes or so gets too hot and the system responds by throttling.

Then starts"hunting" between PL1 and PL2 being at some threshold value where heating up and cooling down keeps flipping back and forth.

Power limits?

https://www.cnx-software.com/2022/0...l1-and-pl2-power-limits-in-windows-and-linux/

 

[Zakya]

edited

Update your post to include full system hardware specs and OS information.

Include PSU: make, model, wattage, age, condition (original to build, new, refurbished, used)?

Disk drive(s): make, model, capacity, how full?

Cooling system?

My thought is that there is a heat build up somewhere that after 9 minutes or so gets too hot and the system responds by throttling.

Then starts"hunting" between PL1 and PL2 being at some threshold value where heating up and cooling down keeps flipping back and forth.

Power limits?

https://www.cnx-software.com/2022/0...l1-and-pl2-power-limits-in-windows-and-linux/

edited

 

[Ralston18]

Not familar with "Greatwall" PSU's.

Suggestion:

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/best-psus,4229.html

Not with the immediate intent to purchase a new PSU.

Simply use the calculators to determine the wattage needed (at peak) for your system.

Then, based on that wattage, research PSU's that match both the wattage requirements and have positive reviews from Tom's and other sources.

 

[thestryker]

What temperature is the CPU hitting? It sounds like it may be bouncing off the thermal limits. What kind of CPU cooler do you have and is your case airflow decent?

 

[Zakya]

What temperature is the CPU hitting? It sounds like it may be bouncing off the thermal limits. What kind of CPU cooler do you have and is your case airflow decent?

Hits 100 a bit before 10 minutes in a stress test, but both PLs are over stock. I wouldn't mind it throttling down a bit, but the square-ish waves don't look too sustainable. Stock about 40 C. Shown in the pic

 

[Zakya]

Not familar with "Greatwall" PSU's.

Suggestion:

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/best-psus,4229.html

Not with the immediate intent to purchase a new PSU.

Simply use the calculators to determine the wattage needed (at peak) for your system.

Then, based on that wattage, research PSU's that match both the wattage requirements and have positive reviews from Tom's and other sources.

Greatwall is an OEM brand. They make or atleast made corsair's power supplys. The psu came with the case. It works as an intake and has a reversed fan. It also has shortened cables. I have a 3060 ti and 4 dimms in an 8L case, so that is kind of a nescesity. Newegg suggest a 500-599W psu for my system. Again I don't mind it throttling in extreme cases, but the 90-degree corners consern me a bit

 

[thestryker]

Hits 100 a bit before 10 minutes in a stress test, but both PLs are over stock. I wouldn't mind it throttling down a bit, but the square-ish waves don't look too sustainable. Stock about 40 C. Shown in the pic

I thought that's what the pic was showing, but wasn't sure. It sounds like your cooler either isn't sufficient or there's something wrong with it. 13500 isn't a particularly hard to cool CPU, but if you're using the stock one that would be the issue. If you have the free funds something like the Thermalright Assassin is a fantastic low cost single tower cooler.

 

[Zakya]

I thought that's what the pic was showing, but wasn't sure. It sounds like your cooler either isn't sufficient or there's something wrong with it. 13500 isn't a particularly hard to cool CPU, but if you're using the stock one that would be the issue. If you have the free funds something like the Thermalright Assassin is a fantastic low cost single tower cooler.

Am using a thermalright axp-90 x53 full black. Best i could fins for under 54mm. I do not mind it throttling down a bit after 9 minutes, but i wouldn't like it to instantly boost back up again every 5 seconds.
I have somehow managed to kinda oc it in bios even though it is a non-k. PL1 should be 65W, it is 100W. I would have thought it would just throttle down a bit if it did hit thermal limit

 

[uWebb429]

@Zakya
HWiNFO does not do a great job of tracking the CPU speed when an Intel CPU is power limit throttling. Sampling the CPU once per second will show a square wave graph like you are seeing.

Exit HWiNFO and try using ThrottleStop 9.6 instead.
https://www.techpowerup.com/download/techpowerup-throttlestop/

ThrottleStop lets you adjust the turbo power limits in real time however you like. Open the Limit Reasons window and you can watch for PL1, PL2 power limit throttling or thermal throttling. It might also be the voltage regulators that are overheating.

Turn on the Log File option while testing so you have a record of your CPU performance including the reason for any throttling.

Post some screenshots of ThrottleStop including the FIVR and TPL windows so I can see your settings.

Most people do not realize that the power limits are not locked on the non K CPUs. The maximum multiplier is locked but not the power limits. Increase the power limits as high as your cooling allows.

 

[thestryker]

Am using a thermalright axp-90 x53 full black. Best i could fins for under 54mm. I do not mind it throttling down a bit after 9 minutes, but i wouldn't like it to instantly boost back up again every 5 seconds

I totally glossed over you saying deskmeet in the original post. I'm guessing it's the relatively low power consumption on the chip allowing it to cool down quickly. I wasn't able to find much reviews wise on that cooler, but I'm pretty sure it would cover 125W so that might be a place to start limiting.

 

[Zakya]

I totally glossed over you saying deskmeet in the original post. I'm guessing it's the relatively low power consumption on the chip allowing it to cool down quickly. I wasn't able to find much reviews wise on that cooler, but I'm pretty sure it would cover 125W so that might be a place to start limiting.

It does. I can draw about 150W while turboing in the start. Then it runs like 7 minutes just fine at 100W and then the weird behaviour starts

 

[Zakya]

@Zakya
HWiNFO does not do a great job of tracking the CPU speed when an Intel CPU is power limit throttling. Sampling the CPU once per second will show a square wave graph like you are seeing.

Exit HWiNFO and try using ThrottleStop 9.6 instead.
https://www.techpowerup.com/download/techpowerup-throttlestop/

ThrottleStop lets you adjust the turbo power limits in real time however you like. Open the Limit Reasons window and you can watch for PL1, PL2 power limit throttling or thermal throttling. It might also be the voltage regulators that are overheating.

Turn on the Log File option while testing so you have a record of your CPU performance including the reason for any throttling.

Post some screenshots of ThrottleStop including the FIVR and TPL windows so I can see your settings.

Most people do not realize that the power limits are not locked on the non K CPUs. The maximum multiplier is locked but not the power limits. Increase the power limits as high as your cooling allows.

It seemed to start doing it instantly on prime95 now

Spoiler: log data

2023-07-02 08:28:52 42.00 99.9 100.0 0 96 1.0875 134.9 EDP
2023-07-02 08:28:53 42.00 99.9 100.0 0 96 1.0872 135.0 EDP
2023-07-02 08:28:54 42.00 99.9 100.0 0 97 1.0862 135.0 EDP
2023-07-02 08:28:55 42.00 99.9 100.0 0 96 1.0872 135.3 EDP
2023-07-02 08:28:56 42.00 99.9 100.0 0 96 1.0906 135.1 EDP
2023-07-02 08:28:57 42.00 99.9 100.0 0 97 1.0862 134.8 EDP
2023-07-02 08:28:58 42.00 99.9 100.0 0 97 1.0865 135.3 EDP
2023-07-02 08:28:59 42.00 100.0 100.0 0 97 1.0884 135.4 EDP
2023-07-02 08:29:00 42.00 99.9 100.0 0 97 1.0861 135.3 EDP
2023-07-02 08:29:01 42.00 99.9 100.0 0 97 1.0868 135.5 EDP
2023-07-02 08:29:02 42.00 99.9 100.0 0 97 1.0862 135.1 EDP
2023-07-02 08:29:03 42.00 99.9 100.0 0 97 1.0864 135.5 EDP
2023-07-02 08:29:04 42.00 99.9 100.0 0 98 1.0862 135.4 EDP
2023-07-02 08:29:05 42.00 100.0 100.0 0 98 1.0867 135.6 EDP
2023-07-02 08:29:06 42.00 99.9 100.0 0 98 1.0863 135.5 EDP
2023-07-02 08:29:07 42.00 100.0 100.0 0 100 1.0864 135.6 EDP
2023-07-02 08:29:08 42.00 99.9 100.0 0 98 1.0861 135.5 EDP
2023-07-02 08:29:09 42.00 100.0 100.0 0 98 1.0861 135.8 EDP
2023-07-02 08:29:10 42.00 99.9 100.0 0 98 1.0868 135.9 EDP
2023-07-02 08:29:11 42.00 100.0 100.0 0 100 1.0859 135.7 EDP
2023-07-02 08:29:12 42.00 99.9 100.0 0 100 1.0861 135.8 EDP
2023-07-02 08:29:13 42.00 99.9 100.0 0 100 1.0856 135.7 EDP
2023-07-02 08:29:14 42.00 99.9 100.0 0 100 1.0881 135.9 EDP
2023-07-02 08:29:15 42.00 99.9 100.0 0 100 1.0861 135.8 EDP
2023-07-02 08:29:16 42.00 99.9 100.0 0 100 1.0858 135.9 EDP
2023-07-02 08:29:17 42.00 99.9 100.0 0 100 1.0857 136.2 EDP
2023-07-02 08:29:18 41.97 99.9 100.0 0 100 1.1093 136.1 TEMP
2023-07-02 08:29:19 41.32 100.0 100.0 0 100 1.1141 135.6 TEMP
2023-07-02 08:29:20 41.37 99.9 100.0 0 100 1.1138 135.1 TEMP
2023-07-02 08:29:21 41.45 99.9 100.0 0 100 1.1138 135.5 TEMP
2023-07-02 08:29:22 41.21 99.9 100.0 0 100 1.1118 133.7 TEMP
2023-07-02 08:29:23 41.13 99.9 100.0 0 100 1.1053 133.8 TEMP
2023-07-02 08:29:24 41.10 99.9 100.0 0 100 1.1064 133.0 TEMP
2023-07-02 08:29:25 41.06 100.0 100.0 0 100 1.1116 132.9 TEMP
2023-07-02 08:29:26 41.15 99.9 100.0 0 100 1.1140 132.5 TEMP
2023-07-02 08:29:27 41.06 99.9 100.0 0 100 1.1077 132.9 TEMP
2023-07-02 08:29:28 40.95 99.9 100.0 0 100 1.0824 132.3 TEMP
2023-07-02 08:29:29 40.96 99.9 100.0 0 100 1.1055 132.1 TEMP
2023-07-02 08:29:30 40.93 99.9 100.0 0 100 1.0787 132.2 TEMP
2023-07-02 08:29:31 40.69 99.9 100.0 0 100 1.0811 131.2 TEMP
2023-07-02 08:29:32 40.68 99.9 100.0 0 100 1.0787 130.6 TEMP
2023-07-02 08:29:33 40.69 99.9 100.0 0 100 1.0797 130.8 TEMP
2023-07-02 08:29:34 40.66 99.9 100.0 0 100 1.0797 131.0 TEMP
2023-07-02 08:29:35 40.46 99.9 100.0 0 100 1.0807 130.2 TEMP
2023-07-02 08:29:36 40.35 99.9 100.0 0 100 1.1102 129.9 TEMP
2023-07-02 08:29:37 40.17 99.9 100.0 0 100 1.0792 129.3 TEMP
2023-07-02 08:29:38 40.40 99.9 100.0 0 100 1.0791 130.3 TEMP
2023-07-02 08:29:39 40.13 99.9 100.0 0 100 1.0798 129.5 TEMP
2023-07-02 08:29:40 40.16 99.9 100.0 0 100 1.0817 129.1 TEMP
2023-07-02 08:29:41 40.17 99.9 100.0 0 100 1.0817 129.7 TEMP
2023-07-02 08:29:42 40.06 99.9 100.0 0 100 1.0789 128.7 TEMP
2023-07-02 08:29:43 40.08 99.9 100.0 0 100 1.0774 129.0 TEMP
2023-07-02 08:29:44 39.94 99.9 100.0 0 100 1.0809 127.9 TEMP
2023-07-02 08:29:45 39.91 99.9 100.0 0 97 1.1128 128.2 TEMP
2023-07-02 08:29:46 39.94 99.9 100.0 0 83 1.0796 127.8 VRTEMP
2023-07-02 08:29:47 25.70 99.8 100.0 0 76 0.8092 55.8 VRTEMP
2023-07-02 08:29:48 30.76 99.8 100.0 0 100 1.0873 60.1 EDP
2023-07-02 08:29:49 41.25 99.9 100.0 0 100 1.0819 134.9 TEMP
2023-07-02 08:29:50 40.25 99.9 100.0 0 100 1.0793 130.1 TEMP
2023-07-02 08:29:51 40.08 99.9 100.0 0 100 1.0781 129.1 TEMP
2023-07-02 08:29:52 40.03 99.9 100.0 0 98 1.0803 128.9 TEMP
2023-07-02 08:29:53 39.96 99.9 100.0 0 100 1.0811 128.1 TEMP
2023-07-02 08:29:54 39.98 99.9 100.0 0 98 1.1138 127.9 EDP
2023-07-02 08:29:55 40.76 99.7 100.0 0 100 1.1169 130.0 TEMP
2023-07-02 08:29:56 33.73 99.7 100.0 0 76 0.8071 99.8 VRTEMP
2023-07-02 08:29:57 25.00 99.8 100.0 0 75 0.8077 40.8 VRTEMP
2023-07-02 08:29:58 38.02 99.9 100.0 0 100 1.1127 98.7 TEMP
2023-07-02 08:29:59 40.93 99.9 100.0 0 100 1.0825 133.5 TEMP
2023-07-02 08:30:00 40.07 99.9 100.0 0 100 1.0841 129.6 TEMP
2023-07-02 08:30:01 39.93 99.9 100.0 0 100 1.0811 128.2 TEMP
2023-07-02 08:30:02 39.92 99.9 100.0 0 100 1.0846 128.0 TEMP
2023-07-02 08:30:03 39.90 99.9 100.0 0 100 1.0792 127.9 TEMP
2023-07-02 08:30:04 37.41 99.9 100.0 0 78 0.8070 119.8 VRTEMP
2023-07-02 08:30:05 25.00 99.8 100.0 0 75 0.8077 40.8 VRTEMP
2023-07-02 08:30:06 32.04 99.9 100.0 0 100 1.0887 67.5 TEMP
2023-07-02 08:30:07 40.83 99.9 100.0 0 100 1.0834 132.8 TEMP
2023-07-02 08:30:08 40.16 99.8 100.0 0 100 1.0813 129.8 TEMP
2023-07-02 08:30:09 40.01 99.9 100.0 0 100 1.0812 128.5 TEMP
2023-07-02 08:30:10 39.93 99.8 100.0 0 100 1.0847 128.4 TEMP
2023-07-02 08:30:11 39.88 99.9 100.0 0 100 1.0762 128.2 TEMP
2023-07-02 08:30:12 28.67 99.8 100.0 0 76 0.8080 69.2 VRTEMP
2023-07-02 08:30:13 25.00 99.8 100.0 0 96 1.0862 41.0 EDP
2023-07-02 08:30:14 41.41 99.9 100.0 0 100 1.0815 120.2 TEMP
2023-07-02 08:30:15 40.57 99.9 100.0 0 100 1.0822 131.5 TEMP
2023-07-02 08:30:16 40.02 99.9 100.0 0 100 1.0812 129.4 TEMP
2023-07-02 08:30:17 40.00 99.9 100.0 0 100 1.0812 128.9 TEMP
2023-07-02 08:30:18 39.94 99.9 100.0 0 79 1.0789 128.3 VRTEMP
2023-07-02 08:30:19 25.12 99.7 100.0 0 75 0.8085 43.3 VRTEMP
2023-07-02 08:30:20 29.48 99.8 100.0 0 100 1.0886 49.9 EDP
2023-07-02 08:30:21 41.42 99.9 100.0 0 100 1.0815 135.1 TEMP
2023-07-02 08:30:22 40.28 99.9 100.0 0 100 1.0796 130.8 TEMP
2023-07-02 08:30:23 40.06 99.9 100.0 0 100 1.0837 129.2 TEMP
2023-07-02 08:30:24 40.37 99.8 100.0 0 100 1.1088 129.5 EDP
2023-07-02 08:30:25 28.41 99.7 100.0 0 76 0.8075 72.5 VRTEMP
2023-07-02 08:30:26 25.00 99.8 100.0 0 74 0.8104 40.8 VRTEMP
2023-07-02 08:30:27 38.80 99.9 100.0 0 100 1.1117 113.6 TEMP
2023-07-02 08:30:28 40.64 99.9 100.0 0 100 1.0818 132.5 TEMP
2023-07-02 08:30:29 40.19 99.9 100.0 0 100 1.0795 130.1 TEMP
2023-07-02 08:30:30 39.99 100.0 100.0 0 100 1.0846 129.0 TEMP
2023-07-02 08:30:31 28.81 99.9 100.0 0 76 0.8176 73.6 VRTEMP
2023-07-02 08:30:32 24.99 99.6 100.0 0 75 0.8096 39.7 VRTEMP
2023-07-02 08:30:33 38.38 99.9 100.0 0 100 1.1047 109.0 TEMP
2023-07-02 08:30:34 40.75 99.9 100.0 0 98 1.0817 133.0 TEMP
2023-07-02 08:30:35 40.34 99.9 100.0 0 100 1.0831 130.5 TEMP
2023-07-02 08:30:36 40.17 99.9 100.0 0 82 1.0779 130.0 VRTEMP
2023-07-02 08:30:37 26.94 99.9 100.0 0 76 0.8080 60.0 VRTEMP
2023-07-02 08:30:38 25.00 99.9 100.0 0 94 1.0881 41.0 EDP
2023-07-02 08:30:39 41.93 99.9 100.0 0 100 1.0906 120.2 EDP
2023-07-02 08:30:40 41.06 99.8 100.0 0 100 1.0779 134.3 TEMP
2023-07-02 08:30:41 40.69 99.8 100.0 0 100 1.0946 131.8 EDP
2023-07-02 08:30:42 36.95 99.5 100.0 0 77 0.8071 111.8 VRTEMP
2023-07-02 08:30:43 25.00 99.8 100.0 0 74 0.8096 40.5 VRTEMP
2023-07-02 08:30:44 31.18 99.8 100.0 0 98 1.0880 66.0 EDP
2023-07-02 08:30:45 41.47 99.9 100.0 0 98 1.0779 136.0 TEMP
2023-07-02 08:30:46 40.75 99.9 100.0 0 100 1.0819 132.4 TEMP
2023-07-02 08:30:47 40.35 99.8 100.0 0 98 1.0826 130.6 TEMP
2023-07-02 08:30:48 28.85 99.8 100.0 0 75 0.8098 71.2 VRTEMP
2023-07-02 08:30:49 25.00 99.7 100.0 0 74 0.8101 40.4 VRTEMP
2023-07-02 08:30:50 37.99 99.8 100.0 0 100 1.0885 105.0 TEMP
2023-07-02 08:30:51 41.12 99.9 100.0 0 100 1.1040 134.8 TEMP
2023-07-02 08:30:52 40.71 99.8 100.0 0 100 1.0800 133.1 TEMP
2023-07-02 08:30:53 34.86 99.9 100.0 0 76 0.8079 106.2 VRTEMP
2023-07-02 08:30:54 25.00 99.9 100.0 0 75 0.8090 40.7 VRTEMP
2023-07-02 08:30:55 32.28 99.9 100.0 0 100 1.0858 66.0 EDP
2023-07-02 08:30:56 41.36 99.9 100.0 0 100 1.0819 135.3 TEMP
2023-07-02 08:30:57 40.58 99.9 100.0 0 100 1.0845 131.7 TEMP
2023-07-02 08:30:58 40.24 99.9 100.0 0 96 1.0819 130.4 VRTEMP
2023-07-02 08:30:59 27.52 99.9 100.0 0 75 0.8079 60.2 VRTEMP

 

[Zakya]

I totally glossed over you saying deskmeet in the original post. I'm guessing it's the relatively low power consumption on the chip allowing it to cool down quickly. I wasn't able to find much reviews wise on that cooler, but I'm pretty sure it would cover 125W so that might be a place to start limiting.

Could I also just somehow limit that if its over 85C, don't go to PL2 for a bit

 

[thestryker]

Could I also just somehow limit that if its over 85C, don't go to PL2 for a bit

Might be worth poking around in the BIOS CPU configuration to see what options are available.

 

[Zakya]

I ran cinebench for 30 minutes and y-cruncher for a bit after undevolting 100mV and making it so that it lovers voltage more easily. Also made PL1 90W. Now one core might just throttle for a second in the initial turbo and then it runs stable at 91C. This beahviour didnt show up on either of the benchmarks, but it did on prime95 though. Could this all be because of it?

 

[uWebb429]

@Zakya

The log file you posted shows non stop throttling. EDP throttling is caused by one of the current limits being set low. That changes to TEMP which is throttling because the temperature of the CPU is too high. After that there are some VRTEMP messages in the log file which means the voltage regulators are overheating.

It is impossible to get consistent performance from a computer with all of these problems. Motherboards with the B660 chipset cost less compared to Z series motherboards because they cut corners. They often use lower quality voltage regulators with poor or inadequate cooling.

It appears to be the voltage regulators overheating that is causing the sudden and sharp drops in performance. CPU thermal throttling is very gradual and will hardly be noticed. Consider installing a separate fan that points towards the voltage regulators on the motherboard. Some airflow might help out. Watch for VRTEMP messages in the log file or in Limit Reasons. Voltage regulator overheating must be avoided.

Edit - It also looks like you have Windows 11 VBS enabled. VBS including core isolation memory integrity should be disabled for maximum performance.

https://beebom.com/how-disable-virtualization-based-security-vbs-windows-11/

 

[Zakya]

@Zakya

The log file you posted shows non stop throttling. EDP throttling is caused by one of the current limits being set low. That changes to TEMP which is throttling because the temperature of the CPU is too high. After that there are some VRTEMP messages in the log file which means the voltage regulators are overheating.

It is impossible to get consistent performance from a computer with all of these problems. Motherboards with the B660 chipset cost less compared to Z series motherboards because they cut corners. They often use lower quality voltage regulators with poor or inadequate cooling.

It appears to be the voltage regulators overheating that is causing the sudden and sharp drops in performance. CPU thermal throttling is very gradual and will hardly be noticed. Consider installing a separate fan that points towards the voltage regulators on the motherboard. Some airflow might help out. Watch for VRTEMP messages in the log file or in Limit Reasons. Voltage regulator overheating must be avoided.

Edit - It also looks like you have Windows 11 VBS enabled. VBS including core isolation memory integrity should be disabled for maximum performance.

https://beebom.com/how-disable-virtualization-based-security-vbs-windows-11/

I'm on win 10

 

[thestryker]

With a downdraft cooler VRM temps really shouldn't be a problem even though I don't believe there are any heatsinks on them.

 

[Zerk2012]

PL1 is 100W and PL2 is 154W

PL1 should be 65 watts and PL2 154watts for 28 seconds.

 

[Zakya]

PL1 should be 65 watts and PL2 154watts for 28 seconds.

Well that would just leave performance on the table. This happens basicly only with Primd95

 

[Zakya]

With a downdraft cooler VRM temps really shouldn't be a problem even though I don't believe there are any heatsinks on them.

In the logs they hit 130C. Probably gonna put an arctic p12 max in the psu and add a heatsink to the vrms

 

[Zakya]

Also looking at the logs almost always when it drops the last warning is VRTEMP

 

[Zerk2012]

Well that would just leave performance on the table. This happens basicly only with Primd95

Then don't run Prime95 problem solved.

 

[thestryker]

Okay so reading a bit more on the Deskmeet B660 it definitely doesn't have sufficient VRMs for high power. There are even warnings on the product page about higher power CPUs being limited by the VRMs and it says to use water cooling for anything above 65W. This leads me to believe it's designed around 65W CPUs that run default power profiles.