[SOLVED] CPU temp?

[Cuss_ed]

I have a question that I haven’t been able to get a straight answer to.

Some detail first:
i5 760 Lynnfield (yeah i know it’s old)
MSI P55a-G55
Corsair Vengeance PC3-12800 (MemTest’ed AOK)
Case is well designed (Thermaltake V6 BlacX Edition with HDD Dock
) with plenty of vent holes (side, top, front (filter)).
(stock machine=no OC)
I have two exhaust fans above/beside CPU and a stock Intel cooler (clean) properly mounted with AS5 applied correctly.

Temps:
At complete idle my cores are in the early 20’s Co (ambient is about 15o)
Active idle (browser, word process etc) late 20’s - mid 30’s.

But, and here’s the issue, when I run any of Prime95’s tests, even the Bench, my CPU temp climbs and climbs, too close to Tj 99 Co.
I stop it when it gets to 90o+.

So my question is, Is this normal for a stock cooling system?

The rig is about 9 years old and I game and have had a few lockups and freezes the last few months (Hitman 2016, The Council (believe or not)), even a BSOD when converting a movie (ouch). No I didn’t have any monitor logging at the time. (ah heck)

I know I need to upgrade (I’m researching at present} but I wonder if my CPU is dying or if this is just a ‘call to arms’ because these days everything requires MORE.

Any ideas please?!

 

[PC Tailor]

Welcome to the forums my friend!

So my question is, Is this normal for a stock cooling system?

For a stock cooling system yes. The stock coolers (especially Intel ones) are not really made in mind for loads that high, and nothing will stress your CPU as much as Prime95.

Also remember that for every degree you are above test conditions at ambient temperature, you'll be a degree hotter in your environment.

 

[Cuss_ed]

Welcome to the forums my friend!


For a stock cooling system yes. The stock coolers (especially Intel ones) are not really made in mind for loads that high, and nothing will stress your CPU as much as Prime95.

Also remember that for every degree you are above test conditions at ambient temperature, you'll be a degree hotter in your environment.

Thanks mate. Two questions:

1. And the gaming? UpGrade?Upgrade?UpGrade?
2. what does 'for every degree you are above test conditions at ambient temperature, you'll be a degree hotter in your environment' actually mean? I tried online but it's mainly 'productivity blah blah'

 

[PC Tailor]

Thanks mate. Two questions:

1. And the gaming? UpGrade?Upgrade?UpGrade?
2. what does 'for every degree you are above test conditions at ambient temperature, you'll be a degree hotter in your environment' actually mean? I tried online but it's mainly 'productivity blah blah'

Your ambient temperature is your normal environment temperature (room temperature where you are).
When manufacturers make their processors, they test them under controlled conditions.
Basically every degree hotter your environment is, the hotter your CPU will be.

Just many people neglect to ask what ambient temperatures you have when a CPU is overheating, then you find out that they had a hot day where it was 30+ degrees. Which will naturally increase the CPU temp and your CPU will increase ON TOP of your ambient temperature.

It's just a consideration to make - here's an excellent reference from this guide: https://forums.tomshardware.com/threads/intel-temperature-guide.1488337/

Section 2 - Ambient Temperature

Also called "room" temperature, this is the temperature measured at your computer's air intake. Standard Ambient temperatureis 22°C or 72°F, which is normal room temperature. Ambient temperature is a point of reference for Intel’s Thermal Specifications. Knowing your Ambient temperature is important because all computer temperatures increase and decrease with Ambient temperature. Use a trusted analog, digital or infrared (IR) thermometer to measure Ambient temperature:

When you power up your rig from a cold start, all components are at Ambient, so temperatures can only go up. With conventional air or liquid cooling, no temperatures can be less than or equal to Ambient.

As Ambient temperature increases, thermal headroom and overclocking potential decreases.

 

[Karadjgne]

There's a couple different factors in play when it comes to temps and loads and cooling.

Idle temps are all about airflow and out case ambient. The cpu literally uses up so little wattage that heat output is minimal, even a passive cooler, no fan, has no issues. Small loads won't affect that much. It's not until you reach the critical point where wattage output is greater than cooling efficiency that you'll start to see temps go up quicker.

Which brings us to TDP. Thermal design power is the wattage used by the cpu, at base clocks (not turbo) wirh no hyperthreading, averaged from a set series of average use apps. It's usually within 5°C of actual temps, so it's adopted as both for convenience.

You have a 95w TDP cpu. So running base clocks on average use apps, the stock 110w cooler will keep the cpu below TjMax. That's all Intel cares about. Prime95 is an extreme usage app, not the 50-70% loads used at TDP test, it's (small fft) a consistent 100% load. So you could expect a minimum of 95w, but more likely closer to 130w heat output on a 110w cooler. Bang, there goes TjMax in a few seconds.

On top of that are instruction sets used by Prime95. AVX, AVX2, AVX-512 are not really used much at all in games, relegated to a few very professional apps. But the cpu is capable of using them. AVX series can drive a cpu to @ 130% outputs on a 100% load, so using the latest version of Prime95 you MUST check the 2-3 AVX boxes at the bottom, or small fft will be driving that 95w TDP cpu at close to 160w output. On a 110w cooler. That's shutdown time.

So yes, absolutely a 100% load is far too much for stock cooling, loads like that need better aftermarket cooling, at least 1.5-2x the TDP of the cpu.

So you'd be looking at coolers in the 180w range (Darkrock pro4, Cryorig H5, Noctua NH-D14 etc).
To run Prime95 small fft Without AVX technologies, and keep temps anywhere close to 70°ish, you'd be looking at the budget cooler range, @ 140w, like the Raijintek Aidos, CM hyper212 evo, Cryorig H7, Arctic 33/34 etc.

 

[laptopstar1906]

That temperature is normal. You should not be too worried. If there is a power off condition, you should check again. But the tropics of that temperature are perfectly normal.

 

[Cuss_ed]

Your ambient temperature is your normal environment temperature (room temperature where you are).
When manufacturers make their processors, they test them under controlled conditions.
Basically every degree hotter your environment is, the hotter your CPU will be.

Just many people neglect to ask what ambient temperatures you have when a CPU is overheating, then you find out that they had a hot day where it was 30+ degrees. Which will naturally increase the CPU temp and your CPU will increase ON TOP of your ambient temperature.

It's just a consideration to make - here's an excellent reference from this guide: https://forums.tomshardware.com/threads/intel-temperature-guide.1488337/

Got it, thanks.
ps. Good Guide. Very informative.

 

[Cuss_ed]

There's a couple different factors in play when it comes to temps and loads and cooling.

Idle temps are all about airflow and out case ambient. The cpu literally uses up so little wattage that heat output is minimal, even a passive cooler, no fan, has no issues. Small loads won't affect that much. It's not until you reach the critical point where wattage output is greater than cooling efficiency that you'll start to see temps go up quicker.

Which brings us to TDP. Thermal design power is the wattage used by the cpu, at base clocks (not turbo) wirh no hyperthreading, averaged from a set series of average use apps. It's usually within 5°C of actual temps, so it's adopted as both for convenience.

You have a 95w TDP cpu. So running base clocks on average use apps, the stock 110w cooler will keep the cpu below TjMax. That's all Intel cares about. Prime95 is an extreme usage app, not the 50-70% loads used at TDP test, it's (small fft) a consistent 100% load. So you could expect a minimum of 95w, but more likely closer to 130w heat output on a 110w cooler. Bang, there goes TjMax in a few seconds.

On top of that are instruction sets used by Prime95. AVX, AVX2, AVX-512 are not really used much at all in games, relegated to a few very professional apps. But the cpu is capable of using them. AVX series can drive a cpu to @ 130% outputs on a 100% load, so using the latest version of Prime95 you MUST check the 2-3 AVX boxes at the bottom, or small fft will be driving that 95w TDP cpu at close to 160w output. On a 110w cooler. That's shutdown time.

So yes, absolutely a 100% load is far too much for stock cooling, loads like that need better aftermarket cooling, at least 1.5-2x the TDP of the cpu.

So you'd be looking at coolers in the 180w range (Darkrock pro4, Cryorig H5, Noctua NH-D14 etc).
To run Prime95 small fft Without AVX technologies, and keep temps anywhere close to 70°ish, you'd be looking at the budget cooler range, @ 140w, like the Raijintek Aidos, CM hyper212 evo, Cryorig H7, Arctic 33/34 etc.

Thanks. I'm looking at coolers. Maybe liquid. Corsair Hydro series caught my eye.

 

[Cuss_ed]

Thanks everyone. I'll upgrade my cooler and try again. I want to OC this board so I've got to cool it.
ps. you can guess where I'll be asking questions next time.

 

[CompuTronix]

Cuss_ed,

I would assume since you stated that your ambient temperature is 15°C (59°F) that you live somewhere in the Southern Hemisphere, where it's currently winter. The "standard" for normal ambient (room) temperature is 22°C (72°F). I might expect such high Core temperatures if your ambient temperature was also very high (35°C or 95°F), but at such a low ambient temperature of only 15°C (rather chilly for indoors), your Core temperatures shouldn't be nearly so high, even on the stock cooler running any version of Prime95

Regardless, just to put things into perspective for the sake of our other members and readers, there's a few items in this thread that need to be clarified.

• Over time, the infamous and problematic "push-pins" on Intel's stock coolers will stretch, which causes poor contact pressure resulting in high Core temperatures. After cleaning and reapply thermal compound, even IF you succeed in getting all four push-pins properly seated and latched, you can still have high Core temperatures. I think this is where the problem is. It's likely that your stock cooler has poor contact pressure.

• Since your Core i 1st Generation i5-760 does not have any AVX Instruction Sets, it simply doesn't matter which version of Prime95 from 26.6 through 29.8 with or without AVX, AVX-2 pr AVX-512 that you might choose to run. However, keep in mind that for testing thermal performance, always use "Small FFT's", which is a steady-state 100% workload with steady Core temperatures that don't fluctuate.

• TDP ratings are generally based on the fastest "flagship" variants, which includes Hyper-Threading. This means that since the flagship CPU for socket 1156 is the 95 Watt TDP i7-880, only that particular i7 will reach TDP, while your 95 Watt TDP i5-760 won't. CPU's that run at slower base and turbo clock speeds without Hyper-Threading don't reach rated TDP. Moreover, your 95 Watt TDP processor was packaged with Intel's universal 95 Watt TDP cooler, which Intel also packaged with many other Core 2 and Core i processor variants over the years.

• No, you do not want liquid cooling or it's shortcomings, such as the eventual and inevitable pump failure, nor is it necessary for a 4 Core 4 Thread CPU without Hyper-Treading that will never exceed 110 Watts when overclocked. There's a wide selection of good air coolers that will work exceedingly well for less money that won't fail, as opposed to an AIO which will fail.

Nonetheless, if you plan to overclock, then as has previously been suggested, you'll definitely need a better cooler.

CT

 

[Randi Poling]

I have a question that I haven’t been able to get a straight answer to.

Some detail first:
i5 760 Lynnfield (yeah i know it’s old)
MSI P55a-G55
Corsair Vengeance PC3-12800 (MemTest’ed AOK)
Case is well designed (Thermaltake V6 BlacX Edition with HDD Dock
) with plenty of vent holes (side, top, front (filter)).
(stock machine=no OC)
I have two exhaust fans above/beside CPU and a stock Intel cooler (clean) properly mounted with AS5 applied correctly.

Temps:
At complete idle my cores are in the early 20’s Co (ambient is about 15o)
Active idle (browser, word process etc) late 20’s - mid 30’s.

But, and here’s the issue, when I run any of Prime95’s tests, even the Bench, my CPU temp climbs and climbs, too close to Tj 99 Co.
I stop it when it gets to 90o+.

So my question is, Is this normal for a stock cooling system?

The rig is about 9 years old and I game and have had a few lockups and freezes the last few months (Hitman 2016, The Council (believe or not)), even a BSOD when converting a movie (ouch). No I didn’t have any monitor logging at the time. (ah heck)

I know I need to upgrade (I’m researching at present} but I wonder if my CPU is dying or if this is just a ‘call to arms’ because these days everything requires MORE.

Any ideas please?!

I have an i7-860 that I still currently use. With the stock cooler, when i tried BF4, it shot the CPu tempt to 95+ I bought the H100i that day (back in 2013, and it lasted me up until last weekend. NOW, the question is, do you want to use this as a daily driver for youtube, websurfing,t hat stuff? What kind of games do you play?

If you want to play any new current games, upgrade. if not, jsut buy a nice cooler. I got the Hyper 212 Evo Black Edition RGB on it currently to replace my dead H100i and my system still runs like a champ. I ran Cinebench or w.e, didnt get past 54c. Did a CPU stress test with CPU Z @ 1005 load, didnt get past 55.

 

[CompuTronix]

... i7-860 ... stock cooler ... BF4 to 95+ ... Hyper 212 Evo Black ... Cinebench ... 54c ... CPU Z 55.

• At what ambient temperature?

The "standard" for normal ambient (room) temperature is 22°C or 72°F. Some members write into our forums who live anywhere from the Arctic Circle to the Equator, so ambient indoor temperature might be anywhere from 10°C (50°F) to 40°C (104°F), which can be a HUGE variable. It's not possible to draw any accurate "apples-to-apples" comparisons without stating ambient temperature, but it's very easy to proceed on false assumption and jump to the wrong conclusions.

• For everyone's benefit, always provide ambient temperature when discussing CPU temperature problems.

• Although CineBench and CPU-Z have their uses, they're somewhat less than ideal for thermal testing.

"Load" or "full load" are popular user terms with numbers that get flung around like gorilla poo in a cage. Games, apps, streaming, rendering, transcoding and most utilities have partial, fluctuating workloads with fluctuating Core temperatures that are not well suited for testing thermal performance.

“Stress” tests vary widely and can be characterized into two categories; stability tests which are fluctuating workloads, and thermal tests which are steady workloads. Prime95 Small FFT's (without AVX ) is ideally suited for testing thermal performance, because it conforms to Intel's Datasheets as a steady 100% workload with steady Core temperatures. No other utility can so closely replicate Intel's thermal test workload.



Utilities that don't overload or underload your processor will give you a valid thermal baseline. Here’s a comparison of utilities grouped as thermal and stability tests according to % of TDP, averaged across six processor Generations at stock settings rounded to the nearest 5%:



Although these tests range from 70% to 130% TDP workload, Windows Task Manager interprets every test as 100% CPU Utilization, which is processor resource activity, not actual workload. Core temperatures respond directly to Power consumption (Watts), which is driven by workload. Prime95 Small FFT’s (without AVX) provides a steady 100% workload, even when TDP is exceeded by overclocking. If Core temperatures don't exceed 85°C, your CPU should run the most demanding real-world workloads without overheating.

• Note: Since Core 2, Core i 1st Gen (i7-860) and most Pentium and Celeron processors don't have AVX Instructions Sets, they're not affected by the brutal 130% workload of Prime95 with AVX, so you can run any version from 26.6 to the latest.

As you can see from the scale, while CPU-Z is a steady workload, it's only about 80%. However, CineBench 20 is better suited than CineBench 15, especially if you click on File, then Preferences and set Minimum Test Duration to 600 seconds (10 minutes). It's not exactly a steady workload, but it's a little more than 90%.

• You might want to read Section 11 - Thermal Test Basics:

Intel Temperature Guide - https://forums.tomshardware.com/threads/intel-temperature-guide.1488337/

CT

 

[Cuss_ed]

• At what ambient temperature?

The "standard" for normal ambient (room) temperature is 22°C or 72°F. Some members write into our forums who live anywhere from the Arctic Circle to the Equator, so ambient indoor temperature might be anywhere from 10°C (50°F) to 40°C (104°F), which can be a HUGE variable. It's not possible to draw any accurate "apples-to-apples" comparisons without stating ambient temperature, but it's very easy to proceed on false assumption and jump to the wrong conclusions.

• For everyone's benefit, always provide ambient temperature when discussing CPU temperature problems.

• Although CineBench and CPU-Z have their uses, they're somewhat less than ideal for thermal testing.

"Load" or "full load" are popular user terms with numbers that get flung around like gorilla poo in a cage. Games, apps, streaming, rendering, transcoding and most utilities have partial, fluctuating workloads with fluctuating Core temperatures that are not well suited for testing thermal performance.

“Stress” tests vary widely and can be characterized into two categories; stability tests which are fluctuating workloads, and thermal tests which are steady workloads. Prime95 Small FFT's (without AVX ) is ideally suited for testing thermal performance, because it conforms to Intel's Datasheets as a steady 100% workload with steady Core temperatures. No other utility can so closely replicate Intel's thermal test workload.



Utilities that don't overload or underload your processor will give you a valid thermal baseline. Here’s a comparison of utilities grouped as thermal and stability tests according to % of TDP, averaged across six processor Generations at stock settings rounded to the nearest 5%:



Although these tests range from 70% to 130% TDP workload, Windows Task Manager interprets every test as 100% CPU Utilization, which is processor resource activity, not actual workload. Core temperatures respond directly to Power consumption (Watts), which is driven by workload. Prime95 Small FFT’s (without AVX) provides a steady 100% workload, even when TDP is exceeded by overclocking. If Core temperatures don't exceed 85°C, your CPU should run the most demanding real-world workloads without overheating.

• Note: Since Core 2, Core i 1st Gen (i7-860) and most Pentium and Celeron processors don't have AVX Instructions Sets, they're not affected by the brutal 130% workload of Prime95 with AVX, so you can run any version from 26.6 to the latest.

As you can see from the scale, while CPU-Z is a steady workload, it's only about 80%. However, CineBench 20 is better suited than CineBench 15, especially if you click on File, then Preferences and set Minimum Test Duration to 600 seconds (10 minutes). It's not exactly a steady workload, but it's a little more than 90%.

• You might want to read Section 11 - Thermal Test Basics:

Intel Temperature Guide - https://forums.tomshardware.com/threads/intel-temperature-guide.1488337/

CT

Interesting read.
Yes, ambient temp was about right. Southern hemiphere (AUS), 6C outside, one window open, no heating except TV and computer, yes I was rugged up.
I did run smallest FFT’s on latest P95 version.
Cooler push-pins eh!? That I didn't consider and it's very possible.
I've cleaned the machine regularly since build and have had the cooler off plenty of times for one reason or another. And yeah those push-pins can be problematic. So, because the cooler frame legs/posts are flush with the motherboard it's no indicator as how well the sink is contacting the IHS. I like it.
I'll skip liquid and get a decent fan.
And I won't OC this board until I finish it's replacement.
Thanks.

 

[Randi Poling]

• At what ambient temperature?

The "standard" for normal ambient (room) temperature is 22°C or 72°F. Some members write into our forums who live anywhere from the Arctic Circle to the Equator, so ambient indoor temperature might be anywhere from 10°C (50°F) to 40°C (104°F), which can be a HUGE variable. It's not possible to draw any accurate "apples-to-apples" comparisons without stating ambient temperature, but it's very easy to proceed on false assumption and jump to the wrong conclusions.

• For everyone's benefit, always provide ambient temperature when discussing CPU temperature problems.

• Although CineBench and CPU-Z have their uses, they're somewhat less than ideal for thermal testing.

"Load" or "full load" are popular user terms with numbers that get flung around like gorilla poo in a cage. Games, apps, streaming, rendering, transcoding and most utilities have partial, fluctuating workloads with fluctuating Core temperatures that are not well suited for testing thermal performance.

“Stress” tests vary widely and can be characterized into two categories; stability tests which are fluctuating workloads, and thermal tests which are steady workloads. Prime95 Small FFT's (without AVX ) is ideally suited for testing thermal performance, because it conforms to Intel's Datasheets as a steady 100% workload with steady Core temperatures. No other utility can so closely replicate Intel's thermal test workload.



Utilities that don't overload or underload your processor will give you a valid thermal baseline. Here’s a comparison of utilities grouped as thermal and stability tests according to % of TDP, averaged across six processor Generations at stock settings rounded to the nearest 5%:



Although these tests range from 70% to 130% TDP workload, Windows Task Manager interprets every test as 100% CPU Utilization, which is processor resource activity, not actual workload. Core temperatures respond directly to Power consumption (Watts), which is driven by workload. Prime95 Small FFT’s (without AVX) provides a steady 100% workload, even when TDP is exceeded by overclocking. If Core temperatures don't exceed 85°C, your CPU should run the most demanding real-world workloads without overheating.

• Note: Since Core 2, Core i 1st Gen (i7-860) and most Pentium and Celeron processors don't have AVX Instructions Sets, they're not affected by the brutal 130% workload of Prime95 with AVX, so you can run any version from 26.6 to the latest.

As you can see from the scale, while CPU-Z is a steady workload, it's only about 80%. However, CineBench 20 is better suited than CineBench 15, especially if you click on File, then Preferences and set Minimum Test Duration to 600 seconds (10 minutes). It's not exactly a steady workload, but it's a little more than 90%.

• You might want to read Section 11 - Thermal Test Basics:

Intel Temperature Guide - https://forums.tomshardware.com/threads/intel-temperature-guide.1488337/

CT

I dont do anything too extreme on my machine so thermals arent too much of a worry, just aslong as i can keep it cool, to make it last, im happy. the 95C was in so cal, i think the ambient room temp was 80F.

Ambient temp now for when i did the cpuz and cinebench was around 73 to 75F.

 

[Cuss_ed]

just to close this thread. I replaced my cooler with the Darkrock Slim and ran P95 small FFT's for 10min and cores didn't go over 42C (ambient about 15C) so thats a good result.
thanks again.

 

[PC Tailor]

just to close this thread. I replaced my cooler with the Darkrock Slim and ran P95 small FFT's for 10min and cores didn't go over 42C (ambient about 15C) so thats a good result.
thanks again.

Glad to see the problem appears to be solved my friend.
To close the thread formally just select a best answer that you feel is best suited so that others visiting the forum can view it

 

[Cuss_ed]

Cuss_ed,

I would assume since you stated that your ambient temperature is 15°C (59°F) that you live somewhere in the Southern Hemisphere, where it's currently winter. The "standard" for normal ambient (room) temperature is 22°C (72°F). I might expect such high Core temperatures if your ambient temperature was also very high (35°C or 95°F), but at such a low ambient temperature of only 15°C (rather chilly for indoors), your Core temperatures shouldn't be nearly so high, even on the stock cooler running any version of Prime95

Regardless, just to put things into perspective for the sake of our other members and readers, there's a few items in this thread that need to be clarified.

• Over time, the infamous and problematic "push-pins" on Intel's stock coolers will stretch, which causes poor contact pressure resulting in high Core temperatures. After cleaning and reapply thermal compound, even IF you succeed in getting all four push-pins properly seated and latched, you can still have high Core temperatures. I think this is where the problem is. It's likely that your stock cooler has poor contact pressure.

• Since your Core i 1st Generation i5-760 does not have any AVX Instruction Sets, it simply doesn't matter which version of Prime95 from 26.6 through 29.8 with or without AVX, AVX-2 pr AVX-512 that you might choose to run. However, keep in mind that for testing thermal performance, always use "Small FFT's", which is a steady-state 100% workload with steady Core temperatures that don't fluctuate.

• TDP ratings are generally based on the fastest "flagship" variants, which includes Hyper-Threading. This means that since the flagship CPU for socket 1156 is the 95 Watt TDP i7-880, only that particular i7 will reach TDP, while your 95 Watt TDP i5-760 won't. CPU's that run at slower base and turbo clock speeds without Hyper-Threading don't reach rated TDP. Moreover, your 95 Watt TDP processor was packaged with Intel's universal 95 Watt TDP cooler, which Intel also packaged with many other Core 2 and Core i processor variants over the years.

• No, you do not want liquid cooling or it's shortcomings, such as the eventual and inevitable pump failure, nor is it necessary for a 4 Core 4 Thread CPU without Hyper-Treading that will never exceed 110 Watts when overclocked. There's a wide selection of good air coolers that will work exceedingly well for less money that won't fail, as opposed to an AIO which will fail.

Nonetheless, if you plan to overclock, then as has previously been suggested, you'll definitely need a better cooler.

CT

• Over time, the infamous and problematic "push-pins" on Intel's stock coolers will stretch, which causes poor contact pressure resulting in high Core temperatures. After cleaning and reapply thermal compound, even IF you succeed in getting all four push-pins properly seated and latched, you can still have high Core temperatures. I think this is where the problem is. It's likely that your stock cooler has poor contact pressure.

Solved !!