CPU VCORE vs VID Voltage question

[camf2xu]

Im fairly new to the overclock scene. Ive done a few stress tests/messed with voltage/multiplier, and now curently stress testing my system using RealBench 2.44 with a CPU core Voltage override of 1.35v and a 47 multiplier. While watching settings in HWMonitor i observed my CPU VCORE which is listed under my motherboard at 1.408V, while under my processor it says MAX VID is 1.319V. I was under the impression that VID was the volts going to my processsor, do have this wrong? If so why is it going above the CPU Core Voltage override and how would i set a max voltage? Any light that can be shead on this will greatly help me out, im trying to soak up all the information i can. Heres an included Gyazo of my HWMonitor/CPUZ.
https://gyazo.com/7a655bb293b9b9b5998f2ee8d1f0a319

Thankyou in advance to anyone that takes the time to reply to this thread.

 

[weberdarren97]

Hello camf2xu, I think you're getting your terms mixed up a bit. VID is the voltage that the chip runs at out of the box, that is to say without being overclocked. VCore is the current voltage being pushed through the CPU.

 

[camf2xu]

Hello camf2xu, I think you're getting your terms mixed up a bit. VID is the voltage that the chip runs at out of the box, that is to say without being overclocked. VCore is the current voltage being pushed through the CPU.

Thankyou for your reply.

So then how would i adjust the max voltage i want to allow to the cpu? Currently i have CPU Core/Cash Voltage set to manual and CPU Core Voltage Override set to 1.35.

One additional question, If my voltage is infact 1.408 isnt 75ºC max temp over half way through a stress test pretty good for that high of voltage? I would like to back that down a bit though 😵

 

[weberdarren97]

Thanks to Intel Skylake architecture, these chips run very well on low voltages. I don't think you really need more than 1.35V for overclocking. Besides, pushing more voltage increases strain on the MOSFETs on the motherboard. Blow those out and you'll get 12V straight to the CPU, and that will be death of the chip.

What are you using to overclock? Are you using a program within Windows or are you using the BIOS?

 

[weberdarren97]

Max VID is not the max voltage allowed to the CPU. That's determined by the MOSFETs on the motherboard. Max VID is the highest voltage allowed without overclocking. If your chip would ever have more than that pushed through it on default BIOS settings and no software overclock, the BIOS would stop the boot and report a CPU error.

The reason you're able to go above the max VID is because you've applied overclock settings. Max VID doesn't apply when overclocking.

 

[camf2xu]

Thanks to Intel Skylake architecture, these chips run very well on low voltages. I don't think you really need more than 1.35V for overclocking. Besides, pushing more voltage increases strain on the MOSFETs on the motherboard. Blow those out and you'll get 12V straight to the CPU, and that will be death of the chip.

What are you using to overclock? Are you using a program within Windows or are you using the BIOS?

ok now im confused lol. Im unsure why my CPU core voltage override i manually set in bios @1.35 and my CPU Vcore showing 1.408 with HWMonitor and CPUZ sdays Core voltage at 1.408V (see gyazo from first post) And im using bios on an ASUS Maximus Hero VIII

Max VID is not the max voltage allowed to the CPU. That's determined by the MOSFETs on the motherboard. Max VID is the highest voltage allowed without overclocking. If your chip would ever have more than that pushed through it on default BIOS settings and no software overclock, the BIOS would stop the boot and report a CPU error.

The reason you're able to go above the max VID is because you've applied overclock settings. Max VID doesn't apply when overclocking.

I now understand (your fist post) that VID deals with stock cpu settings and isnt a factor im looking at while overclocking, but am still confused why my CPU VCORE is displaying at 1.408 on HWMonitor when i set my cpu core voltage override to 1.35.

I apologize if this is frustrating that im not grasping this lol.

 

[weberdarren97]

This is where things get complicated. I'll try to keep it as simple as I can.

There are three things that the BIOS is constantly doing while overclock settings are applied.
1. Check that CPU core and onboard MOSFET temperatures are acceptable
2. Check that CPU is achieving its target clock speed
3. Check that CPU is running at its target voltage

I put those in order of priority, high to low. The BIOS will adjust the CPU clock speed based on temperature. If it goes above 90C, it will slow it down. As it slows down the CPU clock speed, it lowers the voltage. The same thing happens if the MOSFETs on the motherboard get too hot. Now lets move on to the second thing I listed. The BIOS sees maintaining a constant clock speed to be more important than to stay exactly at the target voltage. If for any reason, the voltage you have set is inadequate to maintain the target clock speed, it will automatically adjust CPU core voltage to keep the system from becoming unstable. Finally, after all that, it will check to see if it can bring the voltage any closer to the target you set. If it deems that bringing the voltage closer to your target will increase thermals to unsafe levels or cause the clock speed to be unstable, it will continue at the current voltage and ignore the voltage target you have set. It does this thousands of times per second.

When I use the word target, that means you want it to be at that exact setting, but the system understands that that's not always possible and will make corrections as necessary.

 

[camf2xu]

This is where things get complicated. I'll try to keep it as simple as I can.

There are three things that the BIOS is constantly doing while overclock settings are applied.
1. Check that CPU core and onboard MOSFET temperatures are acceptable
2. Check that CPU is achieving its target clock speed
3. Check that CPU is running at its target voltage

I put those in order of priority, high to low. The BIOS will adjust the CPU clock speed based on temperature. If it goes above 90C, it will slow it down. As it slows down the CPU clock speed, it lowers the voltage. The same thing happens if the MOSFETs on the motherboard get too hot. Now lets move on to the second thing I listed. The BIOS sees maintaining a constant clock speed to be more important than to stay exactly at the target voltage. If for any reason, the voltage you have set is inadequate to maintain the target clock speed, it will automatically adjust CPU core voltage to keep the system from becoming unstable. Finally, after all that, it will check to see if it can bring the voltage any closer to the target you set. If it deems that bringing the voltage closer to your target will increase thermals to unsafe levels or cause the clock speed to be unstable, it will continue at the current voltage and ignore the voltage target you have set. It does this thousands of times per second.

When I use the word target, that means you want it to be at that exact setting, but the system understands that that's not always possible and will make corrections as necessary.

Ok that makes sense. I was under the impression if i had it set to manual it would not exceed the voltage i specified and would bluescreen if the cpu wasn't getting the amount of voltage it needed, in which case that was a sign to up the voltage. And if i had it set to variable thats when it could adjust the voltage on its own slightly.

So now that my stress test is done my cpu Vcore is at 1.36 along with the Core Voltage listed in CPUZ. By having set the Core voltage override in BIOS, am i setting a Base voltage that goes to the CPU?
Included Gyazo so you can look for yourself: https://gyazo.com/a4c994c923d5dec150631e671dd55d65


Should my next step be lowering the CPU Core Voltage Override down and see if my system still boots to OS?

 

[weberdarren97]

"I was under the impression if i had it set to manual it would not exceed the voltage i specified and would bluescreen if the cpu wasn't getting the amount of voltage it needed, in which case that was a sign to up the voltage. And if i had it set to variable thats when it could adjust the voltage on its own slightly." This is the way traditional BIOS's usually work, but the Asus UEFI BIOS is quite a bit more advanced than that.

You are not setting a base voltage. It can go above or below if it deems it necessary. What you're doing is telling it where you want the voltage to be, but it will adjust voltage as needed. In some cases, even completely ignoring your target voltage. This is why the world record for CPU overclocking was set on an Asus board. They're such advanced motherboards that they can even make changes to core clock while the machine is running. Keep in mind that the world record was set on an FX-8350 cooled via direct contact with liquid hydrogen on an Asus board that had a modded BIOS installed. Don't expect to break world records without putting forth serious work. But that's enough side stories, let's get back on topic.

Should your next step be to lower the CPU voltage? If your temps are under 80C at load while overclocked, there's no need to lower the voltage.

 

[camf2xu]

"I was under the impression if i had it set to manual it would not exceed the voltage i specified and would bluescreen if the cpu wasn't getting the amount of voltage it needed, in which case that was a sign to up the voltage. And if i had it set to variable thats when it could adjust the voltage on its own slightly." This is the way traditional BIOS's usually work, but the Asus UEFI BIOS is quite a bit more advanced than that.

You are not setting a base voltage. It can go above or below if it deems it necessary. What you're doing is telling it where you want the voltage to be, but it will adjust voltage as needed. In some cases, even completely ignoring your target voltage. This is why the world record for CPU overclocking was set on an Asus board. They're such advanced motherboards that they can even make changes to core clock while the machine is running. Keep in mind that the world record was set on an FX-8350 cooled via direct contact with liquid hydrogen on an Asus board that had a modded BIOS installed. Don't expect to break world records without putting forth serious work. But that's enough side stories, let's get back on topic.

Should your next step be to lower the CPU voltage? If your temps are under 80C at load while overclocked, there's no need to lower the voltage.

thankyou you've been a big help with understanding things, and that bit about asus boards being able to adjust voltage explains everything. so theirs basically no reason for me to go to variable voltage then. Welp, to bios i go for a 48 multiplier.

 

[weberdarren97]

"I was under the impression if i had it set to manual it would not exceed the voltage i specified and would bluescreen if the cpu wasn't getting the amount of voltage it needed, in which case that was a sign to up the voltage. And if i had it set to variable thats when it could adjust the voltage on its own slightly." This is the way traditional BIOS's usually work, but the Asus UEFI BIOS is quite a bit more advanced than that.

You are not setting a base voltage. It can go above or below if it deems it necessary. What you're doing is telling it where you want the voltage to be, but it will adjust voltage as needed. In some cases, even completely ignoring your target voltage. This is why the world record for CPU overclocking was set on an Asus board. They're such advanced motherboards that they can even make changes to core clock while the machine is running. Keep in mind that the world record was set on an FX-8350 cooled via direct contact with liquid hydrogen on an Asus board that had a modded BIOS installed. Don't expect to break world records without putting forth serious work. But that's enough side stories, let's get back on topic.

Should your next step be to lower the CPU voltage? If your temps are under 80C at load while overclocked, there's no need to lower the voltage.

thankyou you've been a big help with understanding things, and that bit about asus boards being able to adjust voltage explains everything. so theirs basically no reason for me to go to variable voltage then. Welp, to bios i go for a 48 multiplier.

There is a point in using variable voltage, and that's if you want to swap out the MOSFETs on the boards for more powerful ones. But be aware that this requires extensive knowledge of microcircuitry and a steady hand with a soldering gun.

 

[camf2xu]

"I was under the impression if i had it set to manual it would not exceed the voltage i specified and would bluescreen if the cpu wasn't getting the amount of voltage it needed, in which case that was a sign to up the voltage. And if i had it set to variable thats when it could adjust the voltage on its own slightly." This is the way traditional BIOS's usually work, but the Asus UEFI BIOS is quite a bit more advanced than that.

You are not setting a base voltage. It can go above or below if it deems it necessary. What you're doing is telling it where you want the voltage to be, but it will adjust voltage as needed. In some cases, even completely ignoring your target voltage. This is why the world record for CPU overclocking was set on an Asus board. They're such advanced motherboards that they can even make changes to core clock while the machine is running. Keep in mind that the world record was set on an FX-8350 cooled via direct contact with liquid hydrogen on an Asus board that had a modded BIOS installed. Don't expect to break world records without putting forth serious work. But that's enough side stories, let's get back on topic.

Should your next step be to lower the CPU voltage? If your temps are under 80C at load while overclocked, there's no need to lower the voltage.

thankyou you've been a big help with understanding things, and that bit about asus boards being able to adjust voltage explains everything. so theirs basically no reason for me to go to variable voltage then. Welp, to bios i go for a 48 multiplier.

There is a point in using variable voltage, and that's if you want to swap out the MOSFETs on the boards for more powerful ones. But be aware that this requires extensive knowledge of microcircuitry and a steady hand with a soldering gun.

again, you've been a big help. I get confused just reading stuff (tried to read a few guides before hand), i need to be messing with it at the same time to get a better understanding. You've done a great job walking me through and providing information to my questions. Thanks!

 

[weberdarren97]

I've done a MOSFET mod on my old Asus M5A99FX PRO R2.0 board and managed to get my FX 8350 to 7700MHz. The only thing stopping me was thermals. You see, I had eight 120mm fans on radiators to cool the CPU. However, the material used between the CPU cores and the heat spreader (applied at factory) is not as efficient as some other stuff you can buy, but I didn't feel like delidding my 8350 just to reach higher clocks. Besides, I was already drawing 1.2KW from the wall.

A video showing the delidding process. This is not my video, I am not Linus.

 

[camf2xu]

I've done a MOSFET mod on my old Asus M5A99FX PRO R2.0 board and managed to get my FX 8350 to 7700MHz. The only thing stopping me was thermals. You see, I had eight 120mm fans on radiators to cool the CPU. However, the material used between the CPU cores and the heat spreader (applied at factory) is not as efficient as some other stuff you can buy, but I didn't feel like delidding my 8350 just to reach higher clocks. Besides, I was already drawing 1.2KW from the wall.

A video showing the delidding process. This is not my video, I am not Linus.

damn thats crazy. Ive seen a few videos of deliding they were using a vice i believe.