[crawl] beginner questions

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Okay, so ya were warned in the title. For a magic using class (wizard,
frost, flame, warper, etc) is it advisable to put all chosen stat increases
in int? Does int 21 provide much more than int 20? Or would str 9 instead
of 8 give you that extra meat ration for those munchie moments? While i'm
on the subject, how much skill in one thing is too much? Is level 11 ice
and conjuration skills too much for a xl12 wizard? At what point do you
turn them off? What do I need to learn a level 6 spell (haste/identify),
how about a level 7 spell (freezing cloud, ensorcled hibernation)?

See, nice beginner questions. But I haven't seen the answers in any
spoilers.

My l11 wiz croaked (deep elf summoner, smoke demon, orange demon?, and too
many other nasties). My xl9 wiz on the other hand is up to xl13 and ran
across a nice book with ice bolt, which nails death yaks nicely. Currently
on lair level 7 (+1 chain of poison resist, +1 large shield (skill 3), and
+2 boots), I still haven't run across any gloves/gauntlets or helmet in this
game. Oh yeah, and the mace of brilliance certainly helps.

And a few more questions... I've seen a +0 dragon armor in a shop, haven't
gotten the $ to buy it yet. Will there be some other modifer to it once I
purchase it such as gold/steam/whatever? In the same shop there is a ring
of ice, since that's the primary magic I use is it worth giving up the extra
9 magic points (ring of magical power) for the extra damage provided by a
roi?

Okay, enough for one post.
Thanks,
Cecil

 

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"Cecil H. Whitley" <c-do-not-spam-me.whitley@earthlink.net> writes:

>Okay, so ya were warned in the title. For a magic using class (wizard,
>frost, flame, warper, etc) is it advisable to put all chosen stat increases
>in int? Does int 21 provide much more than int 20? Or would str 9 instead
>of 8 give you that extra meat ration for those munchie moments?

I would put everything in int. It is the most important stat for a
spellcaster.

>While i'm on the subject, how much skill in one thing is too much? Is
>level 11 ice and conjuration skills too much for a xl12 wizard?

You can't have too much of those skills.

>At what point do you turn them off?

Well, I personally don't ever turn skills off. Most people do, I guess,
but certainly not at that point.

>And a few more questions... I've seen a +0 dragon armor in a shop, haven't
>gotten the $ to buy it yet. Will there be some other modifer to it once I
>purchase it such as gold/steam/whatever?

No, it is a standard dragon armour.

>In the same shop there is a ring of ice, since that's the primary magic I
>use is it worth giving up the extra 9 magic points (ring of magical power)
>for the extra damage provided by a roi?

In my opinion, yes. If you find another one, even better.

-Jukka
--
Jukka Kuusisto

 

[Ru]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

sorry, jukka, i hit the wrong key and emailed this to you by mistake
instead of following-up. anyway;

In article <jkuusist.1093500948@kosh.hut.fi>, Jukka Kuusisto wrote:
> "Cecil H. Whitley" <c-do-not-spam-me.whitley@earthlink.net> writes:

>>At what point do you turn them off?
>
> Well, I personally don't ever turn skills off. Most people do, I guess,
> but certainly not at that point.

i turn them off if i've got a secondary skill i want to improve, and i
want to save up some xp to practice it without it all being hoovered up
by weapon or primary spellcasting skills.

>>And a few more questions... I've seen a +0 dragon armor in a shop, haven't
>>gotten the $ to buy it yet. Will there be some other modifer to it once I
>>purchase it such as gold/steam/whatever?
>
> No, it is a standard dragon armour.
>
>>In the same shop there is a ring of ice, since that's the primary magic I
>>use is it worth giving up the extra 9 magic points (ring of magical power)
>>for the extra damage provided by a roi?
>
> In my opinion, yes. If you find another one, even better.

massively yes. the ice ring will boost your total damage output much
more than a couple of extra ice bolts.

the only thing to beware of is the fire vulnerability that goes with
them. this could be a good reason to get the (red) dragon armour to
offset.

--
ru

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

In article <hOcXc.12958$2L3.6887@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>,
Cecil H. Whitley <c-do-not-spam-me.whitley@earthlink.net> wrote:
>Okay, so ya were warned in the title. For a magic using class (wizard,
>frost, flame, warper, etc) is it advisable to put all chosen stat increases
>in int?

Yes. Well, unless either STR or DEX are dangerously low (<7).

>While i'm
>on the subject, how much skill in one thing is too much? Is level 11 ice
>and conjuration skills too much for a xl12 wizard?

Crawl encourages specialisation. If your character's main focus is
conjuration/ice, then you can't have too high a skill in those. The only
thing you may want to consider is turning Ice off to boost Conjuration
faster: you'll be slightly worse off on your Conjuration/Ice spells but
significantly better off if you want to use other Conjuration spells
(i.e would you rather be a Conjurer or an Ice Mage?)

>What do I need to learn a level 6 spell (haste/identify),
>how about a level 7 spell (freezing cloud, ensorcled hibernation)?

A rough rule of thumb is that to cast a spell reliably you need double
the skill level of the spell level, so freezing cloud needs the averge
of your Ice, Air and Conjuration skills to be 14ish. Booster items can
reduce these requirements substantially. Heavy armour and shields (see
below) will greatly increase them.

>on lair level 7 (+1 chain of poison resist, +1 large shield (skill 3), and

You're a wizard. Why are you wearing heavy armour? The chain mail and
the shield will completely screw your casting success rates. Take 'em
off.

>And a few more questions... I've seen a +0 dragon armor in a shop, haven't
>gotten the $ to buy it yet. Will there be some other modifer to it once I
>purchase it such as gold/steam/whatever?

No, a dragon armour is an item type of its own: it provides 2 levels of
fire resistance and -1 level of cold resistance. It's also quite light,
so suitable for a spellcaster. Get the money from the Orcish Mines.

> In the same shop there is a ring
>of ice, since that's the primary magic I use is it worth giving up the extra
>9 magic points (ring of magical power) for the extra damage provided by a
>roi?

Definitely, without a question. Note that the +1 cold/-1 fire provided
by the ring of ice mostly cancels with the dragon armour resistances, so
these two make a good combo.

--
Mark Mackey
The Association for the Advancement of Dungeon Crawling
Hints, tips and spoilers
http://www.swallowtail.org/crawl/

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

jkuusist@cc.hut.fi (Jukka Kuusisto) wrote in message news:<jkuusist.1093500948@kosh.hut.fi>...

> I would put everything in int. It is the most important stat for a
> spellcaster.
>
> >While i'm on the subject, how much skill in one thing is too much? Is
> >level 11 ice and conjuration skills too much for a xl12 wizard?
>
> You can't have too much of those skills.
>
> >At what point do you turn them off?
>
> Well, I personally don't ever turn skills off. Most people do, I guess,
> but certainly not at that point.
>

When I find that first random spellbook, it's usually not in the same
specialty that my wizard started with. If I hold out some XP early to
increase the "spellcasting" skill one or two levels, will it help my
wizards to diversify to other spell types?

Better question: what good does the skill "spellcasting" do (beyond
level 1)?

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Cecil H. Whitley wrote:
> Okay, so ya were warned in the title. For a magic using class (wizard,
> frost, flame, warper, etc) is it advisable to put all chosen stat increases
> in int?

Putting all stat increases into int is good advice for everyone who
isn't a troll, and can even be a good idea for them.

> And a few more questions... I've seen a +0 dragon armor in a shop, haven't
> gotten the $ to buy it yet. Will there be some other modifer to it once I
> purchase it such as gold/steam/whatever?

It's from your standard dragon. 2 fire resist, and 2 cold vulnerability
I believe.

> In the same shop there is a ring
> of ice, since that's the primary magic I use is it worth giving up the extra
> 9 magic points (ring of magical power) for the extra damage provided by a
> roi?

The extra damage will almost certainly make up for the fewer magic
points at some point, as the higher level spells gain a great deal of
power from enhancers. The ring of ice will also offset the cold
vulnerability from the dragon armour.

Graeme Dice
--
"People must understand that science is inherently neither a
potential for good nor for evil. It is a potential to be
harnessed by man to do his bidding."
-- Glenn T. Seaborg (1912-1999), US physicist.

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Jason Northrup <jasonnorthrup@yahoo.com> buzzed:
> jkuusist@cc.hut.fi (Jukka Kuusisto) wrote

[Spell skills]
>>>At what point do you turn them off?
>>
>> Well, I personally don't ever turn skills off. Most people do, I
>> guess, but certainly not at that point.

I usually turn off unwanted spellskills, they'll get to unexpected
heights even despite that (turning the skill off only halves the
rate at which they get XP spent on them when you use them). Some
that I want but am happy with after a while usually get turned off
at 8 (same with 'Traps&Doors', though that's not Spellcasting). At
16 or so I might turn off my primary magic skills to get better
Spellcasting Skill.

> When I find that first random spellbook, it's usually not in the
> same specialty that my wizard started with. If I hold out some
> XP early to increase the "spellcasting" skill one or two levels,
> will it help my wizards to diversify to other spell types?

Yes. Spellcasting isn't as important in actual power of offensive
spells, but it does help there, too. It also has another advantage
(see your question below).

Btw, I'd consider ignoring any book you find that doesn't have what
you want. Changing the way you go when you already have an at least
useful amount of skill in your chosen profession might turn out a
disadvantage. Worst example, you're a Fire Elementalist and find a
book of Ice, it'll take twice the normal time for the Ice skill to
catch up to your Fire skill. I'd see this path as a emergency
measure, if you find absolutely nothing useful to get rid of
monsters... (They get stronger after all, so you need something
stronger to get rid of them.)

> Better question: what good does the skill "spellcasting" do
> (beyond level 1)?

!!

<g>

It provides you with spellpoints that you need to learn spells. You
get 1 point per XL that is beyond XL:1, and 2 points per Spellskill
level. A spell you want to learn needs as many free spellpoints as
its level.

So say your wizard is XL:10 (afair they start with a Minor Magic
spellbook), he has 9 points from XL. That plus Spellcasting:1 means
he has 11 spellpoints, so he may have learned:

Minor Magic III
Magic Dart Conjuration 1
Summon Small Mammals Summoning 1
Blink Translocation 2
Repel Missiles Enchantment/Air 2
Mephitic Cloud Conjuration/Poison/Air 3
--
Added that makes: 9 spellpoints

(That's leaving out Slow (level 3), you don't have to learn them
all, after all, and this is only an example, assuming you didn't
find any other books.)

Since you haven't yet the ability to forget spells, and couldn't
learn Selective Amnesia (level 3) even if you found it, you also
can't learn the next useful spell in your book:

Call Canine Familiar Summoning 3

because you only have 2 spellpoints left.

Compare to a wizard of XL:10 with Spellcasting:4 (arbitrary guess),
9 points from XL plus 8 points from Spellcasting, makes 17
spellpoints which leave you able to learn all the spells in this
book (even Slow) plus Detect Monsters (level 2) if you find it, for
example.

Afair, it also determines your amount of mana (using something else,
too, Int? can't remember, sorry).

--
Tina the Grand Master - the Champion of the Religiously Noontime Goat

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

In article <MSGID_2=3A240=2F2199.13=40fidonet_27dd0605@fidonet.org>,
Tina Hall <Tina_Hall@kruemel.org> wrote:
//
// I usually turn off unwanted spellskills, they'll get to unexpected
// heights even despite that (turning the skill off only halves the
// rate at which they get XP spent on them when you use them).

Actually, it quarters the number of times it gets exercised.

Brent Ross

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Okay, I've looked at the spoilers at swallowtail.org.

My understanding is as follows: spellcasting levels increase mana and
points to learn spells

for spell power (another rating which determines a spells
effectiveness, such as damage dealt, duration and probably range,)
spellcasting levels are also beneficial for every spell cast, but not
as beneficial as a level in a specialized area of magic.
as follows:
for spells in a single category (ie. fire, ice, poison, conjuration,
enchantment, etc.) a level in the relevant category gives 4 times the
spellpower as a level in spellcasting

for spells with 2 categories, a level in either of the two relevant
categories gives twice the spellpower as one in spellcasting.

for spells with 3 categories, a specialized level still gives 1.3
times as much spellpower as one in spellcasting.

I didn't find any spells in the swallowtail spoiler with 4 categories,
but if the pattern holds, a level in one of these categories gives
equal spellpower as one in spellcasting.

Skill levels are not of fixed value however; each consecutive skill
level costs considerably more XP than the last in the same category.
I also understand that each skill level gained in any category affects
the XP cost of every other category a little, especially categories of
opposing magical elements. The true cost of any skill is in the XP it
takes to advance it, and possibly the risk taken advancing a low
skill.

Finally, I am still uncertain as to which skills, if any, affect
success/failure rates, of spells.

 

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In article <27e1b836.0408290851.4b84a1a9@posting.google.com>,
Jason Northrup <jasonnorthrup@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>Finally, I am still uncertain as to which skills, if any, affect
>success/failure rates, of spells.

The failure rate of a spell is a function of the spell level,
intelligence, armour/shields and the spellcasting power (and a few other
minor things). The only elements that skills affect are the spellcasting
power, so anything which improves your power reduces your failure rate
as well, in more-or-less linear proportion.

--
Mark Mackey
The Association for the Advancement of Dungeon Crawling
Hints, tips and spoilers
http://www.swallowtail.org/crawl/