[crawl] In search for arrows

[Guest]

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Ok. I've got a nice hunter who just run out of arrows. I've done main
dungeon 'till 11th level, and now I started to tackle the mines (I've seen
Lair entrance too). So the question is: where to go for some arrows. I know
that lower in the dungeon will be lots of centaurs, but unseen horrors are a
bit scary for me now. Does someone use arrows in the mines or lair?

Dungeon Crawl version 4.0.0 beta 26 character file.

Welcome, Robin the Elf Hunter.
// I'm listening music from old Robin Hood serial (by Calannad)
// while playing, so I'm in mood for shooting things from
// afar, and I probably do that more than I should.

Okawaru says: Welcome, disciple.

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..##..............# ##.####.##
#......#.........## #...##...##
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#.................##...###...#
....#.....#.#........#...#..).##
...[##............[............#
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..........)..........#.........#

Robin the Yeoman (Elf)
(Level 12 Hunter)

Play time: 04:17:44 Number of turns: 20779

Experience : 12/20011
Strength 22 Dexterity 18 Intelligence 15
// I've got real lucky with str boosting equipment
// plus might and I can beat troll in arm wrestling 😉

Hit Points : 68/68 (69) Magic Points : 19
AC : 9 Evasion : 14 Shield : 0
// Low AC, so I try to stay away from meele as long as posible.

GP : 479
// I'm going back to buy book of Enchentments.

You are in the Mines.
You worship Okawaru.
Okawaru is extremely pleased with you.
// No haste yet.

You are not hungry.

Inventory:
Hand weapons
a - a +2,+2 orcish scimitar (weapon)
b - a +4,+5 bow
// I enchented it, but still I'm not certain if it helps
// with unenchented arrows.

l - a +2,+0 bow of frost
// They eat up arrows, so can't be main weapon.

r - an uncursed dwarven short sword
A - a +1,+1 elven bow
// The elven bonus is only valid when I shoot with elven ammo,
// right?

E - a +2,+2 orcish long sword
H - an uncursed dwarven short sword
Armour
m - a +2 pair of gloves of strength (worn)
u - a +1 cloak of magic resistance (worn)
z - a +1 robe of magic resistance (worn)
Q - a +0 steam dragon hide
// No scroll of enchent armour 🙁

R - a +0 pair of boots (worn)
Magical devices
k - a wand of enslavement
q - a wand of hasting (10)
// It helped me to last 'till now, and will mutate me
// a few times before I die.

t - a wand of polymorph other
Comestibles
g - 3 apples
w - 2 pears
D - 11 strawberries
Scrolls
c - a scroll of blinking
f - 4 scrolls of teleportation
// Not much teleportation, so mines are a litle scary.

i - 2 scrolls of recharging
// Some more haste, when I use up the wand.

C - a scroll of identify
G - a scroll of detect curse
Jewellery
s - an amulet of warding
I - an amulet of conservation (around neck)
N - a ring of poison resistance
P - an amulet of resist slowing
X - a ring of sustain abilities (left hand)
Y - a +6 ring of strength (right hand)
Z - a ring of magical power
Potions
h - a potion of mutation
n - a potion of heal wounds
B - a potion of restore abilities
K - a potion of healing
// Not much potions either.

Books
d - a book of Cantrips
F - a book of Wizardry


You have 428 experience left.

Skills:
+ Level 4 Fighting
+ Level 4 Short Blades
+ Level 8 Long Blades
+ Level 14 Bows
+ Level 8 Throwing
+ Level 9 Dodging
+ Level 5 Stealth
+ Level 1 Traps & Doors
+ Level 2 Spellcasting
+ Level 2 Divinations
+ Level 1 Invocations


You have 13 spell levels left.
You know the following spells:

Your Spells Type Success Level
k - Detect Creatures Divination Good 2

Mutations & Other Weirdness
You are partially covered in green scales (AC + 1).
Your system is immune to poisons.
Your vision is a little blurry.
You are frail (-10 percent hp).


Vanquished Creatures
The ghost of Noir the Charm-Maker, an experienced El St (D:7)
The ghost of Charon the Necromancer, an experienced DE Ne (D:12)
The ghost of Azazel the Reanimator, an experienced DS DK (D:8)
The ghost of Robin the Shooter, an average El Hu (D:4)
// My own. Oh, well. At least they rest in peace now.

Urug (D:12)
4 trolls
A two-headed ogre (D:10)
14 yaks
A wyvern (D:10)
5 ogres
Sigmund (D:3)
13 orc warriors
2 giant beetles
2 yak zombies
Ijyb (D:2)
A wyvern zombie (D:10)
Jessica (D:2)
// Tough ones use up a lot of arrows, and trolls are worst
// of them all.

3 centaurs
// I had 100+ ammo, and used it all up. 🙁

A mottled dragon (D:12)
A mottled dragon zombie (D:12)
// He left a body, but ghost of my necromancer used him
// to make zombie. :/

395 creatures vanquished.


--
Regards
Roman "Seek" Sêk

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

"Seek" <seek@poczta.fm> wrote:

> Ok. I've got a nice hunter who just run out of arrows. I've done
> main dungeon 'till 11th level, and now I started to tackle the
> mines (I've seen Lair entrance too). So the question is: where to
> go for some arrows.

You could milk arrow traps, but that's a very tedious process. I
usually disarm the darn traps and take what arrows I get if I'm
seriously hurting for arrows.

> I know that lower in the dungeon will be lots of centaurs, but
> unseen horrors are a bit scary for me now. Does someone use arrows
> in the mines or lair?

My current centaur hunter (who will likely become my late centaur
hunter, now I've mentioned him here) has been using his bow quite
freely in the Lair (I've not tackled the mines yet). Thing is, I use
the bow only for things that look scary, or for fleeing monsters
that I don't want to chase down. I've level 10 Axes and a rather
decent hand-axe of electrocution that sorts out most critters
handily.

Crawl certainly doesn't make it easy to play a pure archer.

> Okawaru says: Welcome, disciple.

What a coincidence - my hunter's also an Okawarite. I'm not
convinced that was a bright choice - Okawaru's been handing
me great maces like there's no tomorrow, and I'm attached to my
large shield. I suppose there is no better deity for archers,
though.

Darshan

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

User "Darshan Shaligram" wrote...
> "Seek" <seek@poczta.fm> wrote:
>
> > Ok. I've got a nice hunter who just run out of arrows. I've done
> > main dungeon 'till 11th level, and now I started to tackle the
> > mines (I've seen Lair entrance too). So the question is: where to
> > go for some arrows.
>
> You could milk arrow traps, but that's a very tedious process. I
> usually disarm the darn traps and take what arrows I get if I'm
> seriously hurting for arrows.
Yeah, I did that already.

> > I know that lower in the dungeon will be lots of centaurs, but
> > unseen horrors are a bit scary for me now. Does someone use arrows
> > in the mines or lair?
>
> My current centaur hunter (who will likely become my late centaur
> hunter, now I've mentioned him here) has been using his bow quite
> freely in the Lair (I've not tackled the mines yet). Thing is, I use
> the bow only for things that look scary, or for fleeing monsters
> that I don't want to chase down. I've level 10 Axes and a rather
> decent hand-axe of electrocution that sorts out most critters
> handily.
>
> Crawl certainly doesn't make it easy to play a pure archer.
Yeah, I noticed. 😉
But at begining everything in meele was grave danger for me. Later I found
weapon that could do some damage(with that whimpy dagger even bats could
kill me), but the fealing that meele is no way to go lasted, and so I'm out
of arrows... again.

> > Okawaru says: Welcome, disciple.
>
> What a coincidence - my hunter's also an Okawarite. I'm not
> convinced that was a bright choice - Okawaru's been handing
> me great maces like there's no tomorrow, and I'm attached to my
> large shield. I suppose there is no better deity for archers,
> though.
I'm convinced that it was best choice I could do. He gives might (which
helps with bows), and haste. If only he could give ammo, or for that matter,
if only scroll of acquirement could give you some.

> Darshan

--
Regards
Roman "Seek" Sêk

 

[Ru]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Darshan Shaligram wrote:
> "Seek" <seek@poczta.fm> wrote:
>
>> Ok. I've got a nice hunter who just run out of arrows. I've done
>> main dungeon 'till 11th level, and now I started to tackle the
>> mines (I've seen Lair entrance too). So the question is: where to
>> go for some arrows.
>
> You could milk arrow traps, but that's a very tedious process.

especially as doing this tend to raise your traps skill to the point
where you can't set off traps even if you want to! (he said, having
recently burnt a whole food ration jumping up and down on an arrow
trap!)

>> Okawaru says: Welcome, disciple.
>
> What a coincidence - my hunter's also an Okawarite. I'm not
> convinced that was a bright choice - Okawaru's been handing
> me great maces like there's no tomorrow, and I'm attached to my
> large shield. I suppose there is no better deity for archers,
> though.

i'm trying Nemelex: you need ~30 strength to fully exploit a bow's
bonuses, and really high dex helps with a shield.

--
ru

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Darshan Shaligram wrote:

[...]

> Crawl certainly doesn't make it easy to play a pure archer.
>
> > Okawaru says: Welcome, disciple.
>
> What a coincidence - my hunter's also an Okawarite. I'm not
> convinced that was a bright choice - Okawaru's been handing
> me great maces like there's no tomorrow, and I'm attached to my
> large shield. I suppose there is no better deity for archers,
> though.
>
> Darshan

The old wisdom is that there is no good deity for hunters. Hmm...

Okawaru: Can aid you when you switch to melee, can help you hit the 13 mark to
get your bow enchantment bonuses (you won't otherwise) if you start out weak,
can haste you, for a high piety cost (I think). Occasionally you are showered
with useless items.

Trog: You can berserk (but you can't fire when berserk), a whole whole lot.
Later on, you can do some other stuff. If you have magic skill, forget about
using it. Occasionally you are showered with useless items.

Elyvion: You can heal yourself a lot and cure just about any condition cheaply.
Like, say, post-berserk slowing. But you're an archer, not a berserker. Later
on, you can heal yourself considerably when needed.

Xom: is Xom.

"The Shining Zin": Follow a lot of rules and eventually get a ranged attack,
except you already have one. Use it a few times and run out of piety.

Makhleb: Kill a lot. Get a ranged attack, but you already have one.

Etc. etc.

I guess Okawaru or Elyvion.

Erik

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

ru wrote:

> Darshan Shaligram wrote:
> > "Seek" <seek@poczta.fm

> >> Okawaru says: Welcome, disciple.
> >
> > What a coincidence - my hunter's also an Okawarite. I'm not
> > convinced that was a bright choice - Okawaru's been handing
> > me great maces like there's no tomorrow, and I'm attached to my
> > large shield. I suppose there is no better deity for archers,
> > though.
>
> i'm trying Nemelex: you need ~30 strength to fully exploit a bow's
> bonuses, and really high dex helps with a shield.

I thought it was 13???

Erik

 

[Ru]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

sorry, Erik, if you get this twice: i hit the wrong button 🙁

Erik Piper wrote:
> ru wrote:
>
>> Darshan Shaligram wrote:
>> > "Seek" <seek@poczta.fm
>
>> >> Okawaru says: Welcome, disciple.
>> >
>> > What a coincidence - my hunter's also an Okawarite. I'm not
>> > convinced that was a bright choice - Okawaru's been handing
>> > me great maces like there's no tomorrow, and I'm attached to my
>> > large shield. I suppose there is no better deity for archers,
>> > though.
>>
>> i'm trying Nemelex: you need ~30 strength to fully exploit a bow's
>> bonuses, and really high dex helps with a shield.
>
> I thought it was 13???

you need 14 for a +1 bonus, 16 for +2, 18 for +3 etc.

it's not quite as simple as that due to integer division (which may be
where the oft-quoted figure of 13 comes from), and ammo bonuses get
mixed into there as well.

none of this applies to crossbows, btw.

--
ru

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

bork bork bork ru bork 2:34:05 PM bork 1/24/2005 bork bork:

> sorry, Erik, if you get this twice: i hit the wrong button 🙁
>
> Erik Piper wrote:
> > ru wrote:
> >
> >> Darshan Shaligram wrote:
> >> > "Seek" <seek@poczta.fm
> >
> >> >> Okawaru says: Welcome, disciple.
> >> >
> >> > What a coincidence - my hunter's also an Okawarite. I'm not
> >> > convinced that was a bright choice - Okawaru's been handing
> >> > me great maces like there's no tomorrow, and I'm attached to my
> >> > large shield. I suppose there is no better deity for archers,
> >> > though.
> >>
> >> i'm trying Nemelex: you need ~30 strength to fully exploit a bow's
> >> bonuses, and really high dex helps with a shield.
> >
> > I thought it was 13???
>
> you need 14 for a +1 bonus, 16 for +2, 18 for +3 etc.
>
> it's not quite as simple as that due to integer division (which may be
> where the oft-quoted figure of 13 comes from), and ammo bonuses get
> mixed into there as well.
>
> none of this applies to crossbows, btw.

I.e. you need 14 (or maybe 13) to use the first +, 16, to really use a +2, 18
to use a +3, etc.?

I actually recently looked at the (or at least "some") missile code, in
misc.cc. I was in a hurry, though, and I'm not really a programmer, just
someone who spends too much time among programmers to be totally ignorant, so
I didn't really get much out of it. I was especially unable to bite my teeth
into the bit about how "unskilled users don't have too much trouble with
crossbows" or somesuch. It did seem like they had a big speed penalty that
went down somewhat with skill, though.

Erik

 

[Ru]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Erik Piper wrote:
> I.e. you need 14 (or maybe 13) to use the first +, 16, to really use a +2, 18
> to use a +3, etc.?

exactly.

> into the bit about how "unskilled users don't have too much trouble with
> crossbows" or somesuch. It did seem like they had a big speed penalty that
> went down somewhat with skill, though.

crossbows have a bonus to hit compared to bows, but they get a lesser hit and
damage bonus from high skills.


--
ru

 

[Ru]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Erik Piper wrote:
> bork bork bork ru bork 4:05:37 PM bork 1/24/2005 bork bork:
>
> Interestingly, you can fire darts from normal crossbows. Not sure if that's a
> bug or a feature. So you get:

i don't think so: i think you're just throwing it, and it's an oddity in the
"find something to fire" code: i just tried a mountain dwarf hunter and
it definitely says "you throw" not "you shoot".

> I look forward to my first crossbows game, I think it would be really
> interesting. Fun fact: for whatever reason, the best crossbow aptitude out
> there lies with... drum roll please... deep elves. Probably a good choice for
> a deep elf fighter-mage... if you can actually get far enough with a DE
> fighter-mage to nab a crossbow, that is.

there's good source material justification for deep elf hunters to start
with a hand crossbow.. you could then graduate to xbow when you find
one/have enough bolts.

--
ru

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

"Erik Piper" <efrniokr@sdky.cz> wrote:

>Crossbows: Due to the darts bug? Feature? there is plenty of ammo to be
>found, but first you have to actually find a crossbow. If hand crossbows are
>the best way to use darts, then for true minimaxing you'll want to wait to
>start your crossbow courses until you find your first hand crossbow, which
>means until the Elven Halls... quite late, unless you enjoy dying.

Not necessarily true; I recently found a hand crossbow on DL 8.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

bork bork bork Paul Arthur bork 5:51:15 AM bork 1/26/2005 bork bork:

> > Crossbows: Due to the darts bug? Feature? there is plenty of ammo to be
> > found, but first you have to actually find a crossbow. If hand crossbows
> > are the best way to use darts, then for true minimaxing you'll want to
> > wait to start your crossbow courses until you find your first hand
> > crossbow, which means until the Elven Halls... quite late, unless you
> > enjoy dying.
>
> Not necessarily true; I recently found a hand crossbow on DL 8.

I once found a +5, +10 randart mace on DL 5... but I wouldn't *count* on it...

Erik

 

[Ru]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Paul Arthur wrote:
> "Erik Piper" <efrniokr@sdky.cz> wrote:
>
>>Crossbows: Due to the darts bug? Feature? there is plenty of ammo to be
>>found, but first you have to actually find a crossbow. If hand crossbows are
>>the best way to use darts, then for true minimaxing you'll want to wait to
>>start your crossbow courses until you find your first hand crossbow, which
>>means until the Elven Halls... quite late, unless you enjoy dying.
>
> Not necessarily true; I recently found a hand crossbow on DL 8.

they're pretty damn rare all the same though: rare enough that you can't
rely on finding one when planning your character.

speaking of arrows, my kenku hunter is starting to come together, having
got down to the lair. i don't think i've ever had a tougher time getting
a character to the temple, though, as 37 of his brethren came a cropper
on the way. unfortunately it's occurred to me that maybe this wasn't
such a smart character choice after all, as once he's permanently flying
milking arrow traps will become tricky :-/


--
ru

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

bork bork bork ru bork 7:11:36 PM bork 1/24/2005 bork bork:

> Erik Piper wrote:
> > bork bork bork ru bork 4:05:37 PM bork 1/24/2005 bork bork:
> >
> > Interestingly, you can fire darts from normal crossbows. Not sure if
> > that's a bug or a feature. So you get:
>
> i don't think so: i think you're just throwing it, and it's an oddity in the
> "find something to fire" code: i just tried a mountain dwarf hunter and
> it definitely says "you throw" not "you shoot".

wpn-misc.cc:

unsigned char launched_by(unsigned char weapon_subtype)
{
switch (weapon_subtype)
{
case WPN_BLOWGUN:
return MI_NEEDLE;
case WPN_SLING:
return MI_STONE;
case WPN_BOW:
return MI_ARROW;
case WPN_CROSSBOW:
return MI_BOLT;
case WPN_HAND_CROSSBOW:
return MI_DART;
default:
return MI_EGGPLANT; // lame debugging code 😛 {dlb}
}
} // end launched_by()

OK, I give. Didn't make sense anyway. I swore I was seeing the action raise
Crossbows skill. Maybe there's a bug where you're throwing darts on the one
hand and exercising crossbows on the other?

Erik