[Crawl] My current Healer could need some advice (long)

Toggle sidebar Toggle sidebar
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

That's Picard, my current Merfolk Healer (it's the one I already mentioned
in the "Strange Dungeon Layout" - thread). Compared to the most char dumps
here he's surely not that special, but for me he is. He's going to beat my
Nr.1 top scorer (a Healer, too) and I never had a char that deep (Lair
10). As you can imagine, I'm already in regions where everything is new to
me, no monster knowledge. I dipped a toe into the Elven Halls (scary!)
which leaves me with a strong feeling to ask for some advice (where to go
next, what equipment etc.).

Here's the dump, currently in the Orcish Mines (keep in mind my problems
with the Dungeon Layout, I have to think twice before leaving the mines
again).
Own comments in {..}

Dungeon Crawl version 4.0.0 beta 26 character file.

an orc skeleton
a robe
an orcish dagger
You see here an orcish flail.

##....# ####.##.##
##..## ####.#......#
#...######.#.....##.##
##...#..#.......#####
##........#...##
##........###.##
##....#.).......##
#......#%>.......###
#..)..#....%..@....##
#...<...............#
##...[...#...<...#.## ###
#...............#### ##.##
##...........#.).# #...#
#....#..#.......###### ##.##
##...............##..## #...#
##...[%......#.#.....####..##
##...................##...#

Picard the Cruncher (Merfolk)
(Level 13 Healer)

Play time: 06:40:26 Number of turns: 34889

Experience : 13/57511
Strength 19 Dexterity 11 Intelligence 15
Hit Points : 109 Magic Points : 18
AC : 18 Evasion : 9 Shield : 0
GP : 1085

You are in the Mines.
You worship Elyvilon.
Elyvilon is greatly pleased with you.
You are not hungry.

Inventory:
Hand weapons
a - a +4,+7 quarterstaff of speed (weapon)
{found this staff very early at +3,+5. None of my former Healers ever had
such a nice weapon, that's probably why I play this char so carefully!}

b - the +0 glaive of Udov
It emits flame when wielded, causing extra injury to most foes and up
to double damage against particularly susceptible opponents. It affects
your AC (+4).
It greatly protects you from fire.
It lets you teleport.
It lets you sense your surroundings.
{seems that it's not possible to enchant this glaive (cause it's an
artifact?). Still useful against fire dragons for instance. Apropos fire
dragons: do you drop your scrolls and potions when you see one?}

i - a runed dagger
R - a +2,+2 short sword of holy wrath
Missiles
y - 15 +0 orcish darts of ice
K - 10 dwarven darts
Armour
j - a +1 pair of gloves (worn)
p - a +1 helmet
q - the +2 ring mail of Nonsense (worn)
It protects you from cold.
{ego or artifact armor?}

s - the -5 cloak "Fxkmnaaa"
It affects your accuracy (+2).
It affects your damage-dealing abilities (+2). It protects you from
poison.
It protects you from magic.
{Too bad it's an artifact, the -5 heavily spoil it. It's more useful
together with the glaive which compensates with +4 AC, but the staff
is so much better...}

H - a glowing robe
{I even don't have a ?ofDC, otherwise I would know what it is}

J - a +1 cloak (worn)
S - a +1 plumed helmet (worn)
Magical devices
k - a wand of teleportation (1)
n - a wand of confusion (12)
t - a short copper wand {tried}
v - a wand of draining (6)
A - a wand of fire
B - a wand of disintegration
G - a wand of disintegration (11)
N - a wand of frost
T - a wand of digging (4)
Comestibles
c - 5 honeycombs
D - 4 bread rations
Q - 3 meat rations
Scrolls
g - a scroll of teleportation
o - 4 scrolls of magic mapping
C - a scroll of blinking

{Lost most of my scrolls by the last encounter with a fire dragen}

Jewellery
d - a cursed ring of teleportation
e - an amulet of warding
h - a +5 ring of protection (left hand)
l - an amulet of controlled flight
m - a ring of life protection
I - a +4 ring of intelligence (right hand)
L - an amulet of resist slowing (around neck)
P - an amulet of resist mutation
{Don't know, what to put on best or even should drop. He's still very bad
with spellcasting, which I slowly try to change, but it's only possible
with the staff of wizardry. That's also the reason for the =ofIntelligence}

Potions
f - 4 potions of restore abilities
r - a potion of levitation
u - 4 potions of healing
z - a potion of poison
{I've just learned Evaporate, that's why I start collecting otherwise
useless potions}

O - 2 potions of might
V - a potion of speed
Books
U - a book of Clouds
Magical staves
w - a staff of wizardry
Miscellaneous
x - a disc of storms
{should I keep this? I'm not very impressed from my few experiments...}

E - a crystal ball
{Are there other crystal balls than "of Seeing"? If so, are there any
dangerous ones, which I better don't try w/o IDing?}

F - a deck of tricks
{meanwhile identified, disappointing though: I expected to see the number
of cards left}

You have 1133 experience left.

Skills:
+ Level 11 Fighting
- Level 1 Short Blades
+ Level 11 Polearms
+ Level 14 Staves
+ Level 8 Darts
+ Level 4 Throwing
+ Level 5 Armour
+ Level 4 Dodging
- Level 1 Shields
+ Level 1 Spellcasting
+ Level 1 Conjurations
+ Level 3 Invocations
+ Level 3 Evocations


You have 4 spell levels left.
You know the following spells:

Your Spells Type Success Level
a - Magic Dart Conjuration Fair 1
b - Throw Flame Fire/Conjuration Poor 2
c - Blink Translocation Very Poor 2
d - Flame Tongue Fire/Conjuration Fair 1
e - Detect Creatures Divination Very Poor 2
f - Evaporate Fire/Transmigration Very Poor 2

Mutations & Other Weirdness
You are clumsy (Dex -1).

{
Before you skip the more or less uninteresting Creatures list, here's one
last question. There is a weapon shop on Lair 7 which offers an
interesting sling: the +4,+10 sling of Quick Death (630 gold). I've
collected enough money now, so I could buy it. Is it worth the efford,
even with zero sling skill? Or should I better invest in some wands, as in
Level 7 of the Lair
Plog's Magical Wand Shop
a wand of paralysis (6) (126 gold)
a wand of magic darts (10) (54 gold)
a wand of cold (9) (176 gold)
a wand of cold (8) (163 gold)
a wand of confusion (13) (151 gold)
a wand of confusion (10) (126 gold)
a wand of fireball (8) (252 gold)
}

Vanquished Creatures
A stone giant (Orc:4)
{unexpectedly dangerous! My first encounter with a stone giant with one of
my former Healers was less scary, IIRC. This time I was going through
several low HP warnings and needed about 5 godly healings. Maybe I
confused him with hill giants, which are harmless compared to this one}

7 hydras
{not too bad if I'm careful}

A deep elf knight (Orc:4)
{from my first toe-dipping into the Elvish Halls!}

3 hill giants
The ghost of DeParalat the Cruncher, an experienced SE He (D:10) An oklob
plant (Lair:8)
5 black snakes
{pretty tough}

A mimic (D:12)
Actually my first Mimic in Crawl! At first I was thinking of a bug when I
was fighting a !ofHealWounds ;-)}

A pile of gold coins (D:13)
{a Mimic, too?}

15 giant brown frogs
2 cyclopes
3 giant snails
The ghost of DrFritz the Twirler, an experienced GE He (D:6) 5 komodo
dragons
4 trolls
A queen bee (D:9)
5 hippogriffs
7 blink frogs
10 spiny frogs
29 yaks
3 giant slugs
A wood golem (D:11)
2 firedrakes
A wraith (D:11)
Edmund (D:9)
A manticore (D:12)
3 ice beasts
A wyvern (D:12)
5 ogres
10 big kobolds (D:11)
A phantom (D:12)
6 centaurs
A naga (Snake:1)
17 giant lizards
7 gila monsters
A yellow wasp (D:8)
18 giant frogs
2 necrophages
14 war dogs
Sigmund (D:5)
10 brown snakes
A warg (Orc:3)
Blork the orc (D:9)
13 orc warriors
37 killer bees
11 imps
11 orc priests
2 giant beetles
A wight (D:12)
17 orc wizards
A deep elf soldier (Orc:4)
6 giant ants
12 hounds
6 orange rats
2 scorpions
7 sheep (Lair:6)
11 giant iguanas
6 jellies
5 worms
A wyvern zombie (D:8)
4 gnolls (D:6)
2 giant centipedes
81 green rats
29 snakes
2 giant mites
A giant frog zombie (D:11)
Terence (D:3)
[snip the rest]
863 creatures vanquished.

Thanks in advance for any advice, hint, suggestion, comment...
Rubinstein
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Rubinstein <picommander@t-online.de> wrote:

> That's Picard, my current Merfolk Healer (it's the one I already
> mentioned in the "Strange Dungeon Layout" - thread). Compared to
> the most char dumps here he's surely not that special, but for me
> he is.

I start getting really interested when a character crosses level
12, so this guy is up there.

Otoh, I have to admit that most of my level 13 characters
(something like 99%) have died horribly.

> I dipped a toe into the Elven Halls (scary!) which leaves me with
> a strong feeling to ask for some advice (where to go next, what
> equipment etc.).

The Elven Halls are difficult if you don't have a strong ranged
attack. This character doesn't appear to have a good ranged attack,
so it's a good idea to postpone the Halls until you can handle the
odd type 1 demon and the random dunking into the Abyss, and be able
to take a few crystal spear hits without croaking.

> b - the +0 glaive of Udov
[...]
> {seems that it's not possible to enchant this glaive (cause it's
> an artifact?).

Yes, artifacts can't be enchanted.

> Still useful against fire dragons for instance. Apropos fire
> dragons: do you drop your scrolls and potions when you see one?}

When I see the first dragon of the game, I'm far more worried about
my survival than the survival of my scrolls, so I don't muck around
dropping stuff.

If you're talking about firedrakes and you have sufficient fire
resistance, you can certainly take a turn off to drop those scrolls
of acquirement and enchant weapon III before wading into battle.

It's probably worth asking yourself why you're gallivanting about
the dungeon with valuable scrolls on your person, though. 🙂

> q - the +2 ring mail of Nonsense (worn)
> It protects you from cold.
> {ego or artifact armor?}

A randart.

> H - a glowing robe
> {I even don't have a ?ofDC, otherwise I would know what it is}

No scrolls of remove curse stashed away? By the time I'm level 13 I
usually have one or two stashes of those.

> Scrolls
> g - a scroll of teleportation
> o - 4 scrolls of magic mapping
> C - a scroll of blinking

> {Lost most of my scrolls by the last encounter with a fire dragen}

You should never be carrying too many scrolls - 4 of magic mapping,
for instance - stash them.

The only scroll where I carry more than 3 at a time is teleport.

> Jewellery
> e - an amulet of warding
> h - a +5 ring of protection (left hand)
[...]
> L - an amulet of resist slowing (around neck)
> P - an amulet of resist mutation
> {Don't know, what to put on best or even should drop.

If you're in the Elven Halls, the amulet of warding could come in
handy. Otherwise, I'd stick with the resist slowing.

> He's still very bad with spellcasting, which I slowly try to
> change, but it's only possible with the staff of wizardry. That's
> also the reason for the =ofIntelligence}

I'd be more tempted to go the fighting/invocation/evocation route
with a healer than play with spellcasting. Up to you, of course,
but if you happen to find a rod of destruction soon (from a scroll
of acquirement, perhaps), I'd urge you to forget about spellcasting
and work on those evocations.

> x - a disc of storms
> {should I keep this? I'm not very impressed from my few
> experiments...}

Ditch it. It's an excellent way to bump yourself off.

> E - a crystal ball
> {Are there other crystal balls than "of Seeing"? If so, are there
> any dangerous ones, which I better don't try w/o IDing?}

Crystal balls are useless. Throw 'em away. And yep, there are some
nasty crystal balls around.

> There is a weapon shop on Lair 7 which
> offers an interesting sling: the +4,+10 sling of Quick Death (630
> gold). I've collected enough money now, so I could buy it. Is it
> worth the efford,

No.

> Or should I better invest in some wands, as in Level 7 of the
> Lair
[...]

I'd suggest you hang on to the cash. There'll be more shops, with
better stuff.

> 5 black snakes
> {pretty tough}

Wait till you meet the grey snakes. Ooh, those things are nasty.

> A pile of gold coins (D:13)
> {a Mimic, too?}

Yes.

Darshan
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Darshan Shaligram wrote:

> Rubinstein <picommander@t-online.de> wrote:
>
>> That's Picard, my current Merfolk Healer (it's the one I already
>> mentioned in the "Strange Dungeon Layout" - thread). Compared to
>> the most char dumps here he's surely not that special, but for me
>> he is.
>
> I start getting really interested when a character crosses level
> 12, so this guy is up there.
>
> Otoh, I have to admit that most of my level 13 characters
> (something like 99%) have died horribly.

Same here, besides L13 seems to be a hardlimit for my characters (yet).

>> I dipped a toe into the Elven Halls (scary!) which leaves me with
>> a strong feeling to ask for some advice (where to go next, what
>> equipment etc.).
>
> The Elven Halls are difficult if you don't have a strong ranged
> attack.

An inner voice already told me not to stay here. Good to know why now.

>> b - the +0 glaive of Udov
> [...]
>> Still useful against fire dragons for instance. Apropos fire
>> dragons: do you drop your scrolls and potions when you see one?}

I meant firedrakes (don't know anything about fire drakes, are there any
in Crawl?)

> When I see the first dragon of the game, I'm far more worried about my
> survival than the survival of my scrolls, so I don't muck around
> dropping stuff.

The 2 firedrakes in this game are my first encounter at all. Seems I was
*very* lucky to have that glaive already, with it's greatly protection
from fire. They couldn't do any harm to me, other than to my scrolls...

> If you're talking about firedrakes and you have sufficient fire
> resistance, you can certainly take a turn off to drop those scrolls of
> acquirement and enchant weapon III before wading into battle.

The question is: are they also safe on the floor when in line of a fire
breeze?

> It's probably worth asking yourself why you're gallivanting about the
> dungeon with valuable scrolls on your person, though. 🙂

Generally I didn't have too much trouble with losing scrolls yet and so I
didn't care. This may (should) be change in the future. IIRC one of your
patches seems a great help in stack management, time to have a look at
it... Anyway, I don't want to leave stashes in the Orcish Mines, due to my
problem with the actual dungeon Layout.

>> q - the +2 ring mail of Nonsense (worn)
>> It protects you from cold.
>> {ego or artifact armor?}
>
> A randart.

Do randarts have the same abilities like "real" artifacts (acid
resistance, not enchantable)?

>> H - a glowing robe
>> {I even don't have a ?ofDC, otherwise I would know what it is}
>
> No scrolls of remove curse stashed away? By the time I'm level 13 I
> usually have one or two stashes of those.

Actually I had many, ask the firedrake what happened to them. ;-)

>> Scrolls
>> g - a scroll of teleportation
>> o - 4 scrolls of magic mapping
>> C - a scroll of blinking
>
>> {Lost most of my scrolls by the last encounter with a fire dragen}
>
> You should never be carrying too many scrolls - 4 of magic mapping, for
> instance - stash them.

Meanwhile I should have learned the lesson! ;-)

> The only scroll where I carry more than 3 at a time is teleport.

Make sense. But why no blink?

>> He's still very bad with spellcasting, which I slowly try to change,
>> but it's only possible with the staff of wizardry. That's also the
>> reason for the =ofIntelligence}
>
> I'd be more tempted to go the fighting/invocation/evocation route with a
> healer than play with spellcasting. Up to you, of course, but if you
> happen to find a rod of destruction soon (from a scroll of acquirement,
> perhaps), I'd urge you to forget about spellcasting and work on those
> evocations.

Those were my thoughts, too. I was just unsure whether it's possible to
stay w/o (book-)magic for the entire game. I take your comment as a "yes,
it is".

>> x - a disc of storms
>> {should I keep this? I'm not very impressed from my few experiments...}
>
> Ditch it. It's an excellent way to bump yourself off.

I thought, it probably could be a cheap way to train Evocations (against
low monsters). But yes, that training lessons would be painful...

>> E - a crystal ball
>> {Are there other crystal balls than "of Seeing"? If so, are there any
>> dangerous ones, which I better don't try w/o IDing?}
>
> Crystal balls are useless. Throw 'em away. And yep, there are some nasty
> crystal balls around.

I found this ball somewhere on the floor. And I saw a crystal ball of
seeing in a general store for 800gp. My (somewhat naive) thoughts were
"What is such expensive, can't be too bad". <stupid grin>

>> There is a weapon shop on Lair 7 which offers an interesting sling: the
>> +4,+10 sling of Quick Death (630 gold). I've collected enough money
>> now, so I could buy it. Is it worth the effort,
>
> No.

But that was a (somewhat disappointing) surprise to me! That sling
actually was the main reason for my current step into the Orcish Mines
(to grab the gold for it).

>> Or should I better invest in some wands, as in Level 7 of the Lair
> [...]
>
> I'd suggest you hang on to the cash. There'll be more shops, with better
> stuff. stache

Ok, so it shall be then. Looks like you're becoming my private Investment
consultant... *g*

Thanks a lot
Rubinstein
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Rubinstein <picommander@t-online.de> shouted:
> Darshan Shaligram wrote:

> I meant firedrakes (don't know anything about fire drakes, are
> there any in Crawl?)

You mean little d (firedrakes) as opposed to big D (the plain ones
of which are technically fire dragons)?

I don't bother dropping stuff, but I stash the really valuable
destroyable items, more so when I don't have an amulet of
conservation (lowers possibility of destruction of potions and
scrolls) or a cloak of preservation■ (which is conservation and
resist corrosion in one, at least from the description, don't know
whether the effect is really 100% of both, but it's definitely my
most favorite cloak).

■ Note that it's not a capital 'P'; there's also an artifact name
'Preservation'.

>> If you're talking about firedrakes and you have sufficient fire
>> resistance, you can certainly take a turn off to drop those
>> scrolls of acquirement and enchant weapon III before wading into
>> battle.

> The question is: are they also safe on the floor when in line of
> a fire breeze?

I seem to recall something like a 'puff of smoke', destroying some
scrolls either on the same spot as I was, or in the near vicinity,
due to some fire effect, which is why I start arranging my junk in
the Temple some squares away from the stairs - incase I test-read a
scroll of immolation, which I'd likely do on the stairs.

[...]
> Anyway, I don't want to leave stashes in the Orcish Mines, due to
> my problem with the actual dungeon Layout.

How did you get into the separate caves anyway? (Without a definite
way to get out and back, I'd not be in the separate areas if I could
help it.)

> Do randarts have the same abilities like "real" artifacts (acid
> resistance, not enchantable)?

Randarts _are_ real artifacts. And since the pre-defined artifacts
have no place where they definitely appear (with maybe the exception
of some demons' weapons), but just appear randomly, one might as
well consider them random, too.

>>> H - a glowing robe
>>> {I even don't have a ?ofDC, otherwise I would know what it is}
>>
>> No scrolls of remove curse stashed away? By the time I'm level
>> 13 I usually have one or two stashes of those.

> Actually I had many, ask the firedrake what happened to them. ;-)

Don't carry them all with you. Take two or so, stash the rest. You
rarely need scrolls of remove curse while exploring, maybe one if
you accidentally literally run into a mummy (and can't wait until
you get back to your stash), and (or rather 'or', as both is
unlikely) one when you're really really curious about some found
item, and can't possibly wait until you get back to your stash and
your scrolls of detect curse (with the collected piles of soon to be
curse-detected items). If you're paranoid, take one extra incase one
burns.

>> The only scroll where I carry more than 3 at a time is teleport.

> Make sense. But why no blink?

<speculating> Maybe because Blink is controlled, so you can Blink
into a specific place and then run away, while teleport is more
often uncontrolled early in the game?

>> I'd be more tempted to go the fighting/invocation/evocation
>> route with a healer than play with spellcasting. Up to you, of
>> course, but if you happen to find a rod of destruction soon
>> (from a scroll of acquirement, perhaps), I'd urge you to forget
>> about spellcasting and work on those evocations.

"AOL!"

> Those were my thoughts, too. I was just unsure whether it's
> possible to stay w/o (book-)magic for the entire game. I take
> your comment as a "yes, it is".

Me too: Yes, it is. :)

You don't _have_ to do Evocations, either, but it can help.

Mixed types are really not the standard way to go in Crawl, Crawl
favours specialization.

For a sightseeing tour through the dungeon, trying to grab the
'standard' runes with no major detours to gain the neccessariy
experience to spread on many skills, I strongly recommend
specialization. Combat (with god-powers or Evocations) _or_ Spells.

The more you wish to divert Exp from your main offense, the more
places you have to visit to gain the Exp for this. I have no idea
what effect Invocations has on the abilities granted by Elyvilon, or
Evocations on the use of rods, just a feeling that you'd better
decide on either.

Roughly (trying to put this into some sort of useful formula - if
someone has a better one, please say so), your primary weapon should
have at worst the second-highest level of all your skills (if not
the highest, for example Polearms plus either Evocations,
Invocations), with two secondary skills (like Fighting and Armour)
somewhat behind, two more at about half the highest (Traps&Doors and
the other of Evocations/Invocations for example) and a couple
tagging along at level 1 or 2.

If for example you'd like Crossbows, you'd have to replace one of
the examples here for it (perhaps move an example skill further down
the list to replace something else), not add it somewhere, otherwise
you'd actually make your life more difficult, not more easy, on the
long run.

A good example of what happens when you get it wrong is my MfMo, who
spread out not enough Exp on too many skills, which killed him in
Zot.

Of course the more places you go, the more Exp you get, the more
skills (or levels of the skills you like) you can add.

My current character (KoVM) is doing that, but it took time to keep
the skills I need to survive (spells) while playing around with what
I actually wanted (get the Fighting skill to 27 before any others,
among other 'playing around' nonsense), and it helped that I had
some idea of what to expect where. (I hadn't seen all of the
branches of Hell before this character, but by that time he was
already pretty tough and versatile. And it was still very exiting.)

So it's possible to have lots of skills, but the strategy to get
them might not match your goal for the game.

I don't know what your plan is, whether a 'quick' trip while only
exploring whatever new regions you need to to get the Orb, or
exploring as much as possible while you're there, or something in
between. I'm just pointing out the options.

>>> x - a disc of storms
>>> {should I keep this? I'm not very impressed from my few
>>> experiments...}
>>
>> Ditch it. It's an excellent way to bump yourself off.

> I thought, it probably could be a cheap way to train Evocations
> (against low monsters). But yes, that training lessons would be
> painful...

To train Evocations, you can use wands that you'd otherwise not use,
or a rod when you find one. If you've got enough food and no other
way, Evoking Levitation with some item trains this, too, but wands
are my favorite, as sooner or later there are lots of spares that
are no longer useful (frost, flame, random effects - beware of
'random effect:lightning' when you aim, magic dart, confusion, and
similar). I don't use them on monsters, but just zap them at empty
air when I've got some Exp to burn, empty them, dump them, grab the
next one.

I'm not sure that these one-purpose spell-substitute items train
Evocations at all (I vaguely remember some item turning out as no
good for this, though that could have been the Replacable Nether
Generator having fun with me).

>>> E - a crystal ball
>>> {Are there other crystal balls than "of Seeing"? If so, are
>>> there any dangerous ones, which I better don't try w/o IDing?}
>>
>> Crystal balls are useless. Throw 'em away. And yep, there are
>> some nasty crystal balls around.

Plural 'nasty'? I've seen three so far, seeing, fixation and energy,
which are 'can be useful', 'nasty', and 'useless', respectively. Are
there any others?

> I found this ball somewhere on the floor. And I saw a crystal
> ball of seeing in a general store for 800gp. My (somewhat naive)
> thoughts were "What is such expensive, can't be too bad". <stupid
> grin>

I don't fully agree with Darshan that they're all useless. A crystal
ball of seeing can be useful, but isn't necessary. I'd not test-ID
them if I wasn't in a safe place and well-fed, because of
'fixation'.

>>> There is a weapon shop on Lair 7 which offers an interesting
>>> sling: the +4,+10 sling of Quick Death (630 gold). I've
>>> collected enough money now, so I could buy it. Is it worth the
>>> effort,
>>
>> No.

> But that was a (somewhat disappointing) surprise to me! That
> sling actually was the main reason for my current step into the
> Orcish Mines (to grab the gold for it).

What would you do with the sling? Does it have any special
properties? Just throwing rocks, you have to consider that you have
no Sling skill (as opposed to the weapon skills you already have),
and would have to drag the ammo around, too.

>> I'd suggest you hang on to the cash. There'll be more shops,
>> with better stuff. stache

> Ok, so it shall be then. Looks like you're becoming my private
> Investment consultant... *g*

Oh, I hope I don't interfere. :)

--
Tina the Invulnerable - the Champion of the Rebuffing Neon Gem
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Rubinstein <picommander@t-online.de> wrote:
> Darshan Shaligram wrote:
>> Rubinstein <picommander@t-online.de> wrote:

> I meant firedrakes (don't know anything about fire drakes, are
> there any in Crawl?)

Yes, there are firedrakes and dragons in Crawl. Dragons can be a
serious pain when they first start showing up.

> The question is: are they also safe on the floor when in line of a
> fire breeze?

Ordinary fire breath doesn't affect stuff lying on the floor.
Explosions are a different story.

> Do randarts have the same abilities like "real" artifacts (acid
> resistance, not enchantable)?

Yes.

>> The only scroll where I carry more than 3 at a time is teleport.

> Make sense. But why no blink?

I've never needed more than 3 blinks in a row.

> Those were my thoughts, too. I was just unsure whether it's
> possible to stay w/o (book-)magic for the entire game. I take your
> comment as a "yes, it is".

Oh, of course it is.

>>> E - a crystal ball
>>> {Are there other crystal balls than "of Seeing"? If so, are
>>> there any dangerous ones, which I better don't try w/o IDing?}

>> Crystal balls are useless. Throw 'em away. And yep, there are
>> some nasty crystal balls around.

> I found this ball somewhere on the floor. And I saw a crystal ball
> of seeing in a general store for 800gp. My (somewhat naive)
> thoughts were "What is such expensive, can't be too bad". <stupid
> grin>

Well, crystal balls of seeing are not entirely useless. 🙂 Not
worth the $$$, though.

>>> There is a weapon shop on Lair 7 which offers an interesting
>>> sling: the +4,+10 sling of Quick Death (630 gold). I've
>>> collected enough money now, so I could buy it. Is it worth the
>>> effort,

>> No.

> But that was a (somewhat disappointing) surprise to me! That sling
> actually was the main reason for my current step into the Orcish
> Mines (to grab the gold for it).

Slings are very weak. If that had been a +4,+10 crossbow, I might
have been tempted.

Darshan
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Tina_Hall@kruemel.org (Tina Hall) wrote:
> Rubinstein <picommander@t-online.de> shouted:
>> Darshan Shaligram wrote:

[...]
> The more you wish to divert Exp from your main offense, the more
> places you have to visit to gain the Exp for this. I have no idea
> what effect Invocations has on the abilities granted by Elyvilon,
> or Evocations on the use of rods, just a feeling that you'd
> better decide on either.

Actually, for a simple fighter, doing both Invocations and
Evocations is perfectly easy. I like to turn off Invocations around
the 12-15 zone and keep going with Evocations. Then again, I've
never seriously played a Healer. Maybe Elyvilon does better healing
with lots of Invocation skill?

> Roughly (trying to put this into some sort of useful formula - if
> someone has a better one, please say so), your primary weapon
> should have at worst the second-highest level of all your skills

I've a better system! I just dump experience into whatever skills
look good to me and don't give a hang for the arithmetic behind it.

Well, it may not be a better system, but it has to be an easier
system.

>>>> E - a crystal ball
>>>> {Are there other crystal balls than "of Seeing"? If so, are
>>>> there any dangerous ones, which I better don't try w/o IDing?}

>>> Crystal balls are useless. Throw 'em away. And yep, there are
>>> some nasty crystal balls around.

> Plural 'nasty'?

I consider crystal balls of energy a nasty waste of time; they're
right up there with staves of channeling. 🙂

> I don't fully agree with Darshan that they're all useless. A
> crystal ball of seeing can be useful,

Mildly useful, just as scrolls of torment and immolation can be
useful. 🙂

> What would you do with the sling? Does it have any special
> properties? Just throwing rocks, you have to consider that you
> have no Sling skill (as opposed to the weapon skills you already
> have), and would have to drag the ammo around, too.

And even when you have some sling skill, the sling would still be
useless against anything big and mean.

Darshan
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Darshan Shaligram <scintilla@gmail.com> barked:
> Tina_Hall@kruemel.org (Tina Hall) wrote:

> [...]
>> The more you wish to divert Exp from your main offense, the more
>> places you have to visit to gain the Exp for this. I have no
>> idea what effect Invocations has on the abilities granted by
>> Elyvilon, or Evocations on the use of rods, just a feeling that
>> you'd better decide on either.

> Actually, for a simple fighter, doing both Invocations and
> Evocations is perfectly easy. I like to turn off Invocations
> around the 12-15 zone and keep going with Evocations. Then again,
> I've never seriously played a Healer. Maybe Elyvilon does better
> healing with lots of Invocation skill?

What other skills do you have, and where do you go to get the Exp?

Besides, at the end of the game the '12-15 zone' should be the 'half
max' skill level partition (whatever you call that part of the rough
formula I tried to do) anyway.

>> Roughly (trying to put this into some sort of useful formula -
>> if someone has a better one, please say so), your primary weapon
>> should have at worst the second-highest level of all your
>> skills

> I've a better system! I just dump experience into whatever skills
> look good to me and don't give a hang for the arithmetic behind
> it.

:) That's what killed my MfMo.

> Well, it may not be a better system, but it has to be an easier
> system.

I'm just trying to provide a rough guideline for newer players who
might wonder about what to do with skills, for best survival
probability. 2 * 100% + 2 * ~75% + 2 * ~50% + ~2 * <25% isn't hard
to remember, either, and certainly no strict must-do with punishment
lurking for whoever deviates from this by half a point. <g>

Whoever doesn't like it, or doesn't want to think about this, can
ignore it. But what about those who would like some vague idea of
what to do? That's the reason for the question for a better
formular. This one is just what I've come to by considering some of
my games, trying to help.

>> Plural 'nasty'?

> I consider crystal balls of energy a nasty waste of time; they're
> right up there with staves of channeling. 🙂

<g>

Waste of time alone makes something nasty?

>> I don't fully agree with Darshan that they're all useless. A
>> crystal ball of seeing can be useful,

> Mildly useful, just as scrolls of torment and immolation can be
> useful. 🙂

<g>

Well, I'd say crystal balls of seeing are slightly more useful than
scrolls of torment and immolation. The latter have actually no use,
because in an emergency you can't afford to get the damage from them
yourself. The crystal ball can be used right after entering the
level, if nothing is in sight (slightly risky for negative effects I
think), or better, when you wonder where some other parts of a so-
far cleared level might be hidden, and you don't want to dig
randomly (like in the Orcish Mines).

>> What would you do with the sling? Does it have any special
>> properties? Just throwing rocks, you have to consider that you
>> have no Sling skill (as opposed to the weapon skills you
>> already have), and would have to drag the ammo around, too.

> And even when you have some sling skill, the sling would still be
> useless against anything big and mean.

What if you've gotten Sling:27 somehow? <g>

That'd be an interesting title to get, anyway. :)

--
Tina the Portalist - a High Priest of the Reasonable Numeric Grave
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Rubinstein wrote:
>
> The 2 firedrakes in this game are my first encounter at all. Seems I was
> *very* lucky to have that glaive already, with it's greatly protection
> from fire.

Unfortunately luck is a very flimsy thing in Crawl, as I'm sure you've
discovered. 🙂 As far as I can intuit, any time luck in Crawl arrives in the
form of an item, you should make full use of that precious materialized luck :0)

> The question is: are they also safe on the floor when in line of a fire
> breeze?

IME yes.

> > It's probably worth asking yourself why you're gallivanting about the
> > dungeon with valuable scrolls on your person, though. 🙂
>
> Generally I didn't have too much trouble with losing scrolls yet and so I
> didn't care.

Having spent a very long time learning how to reach the Mines in more than one
game in ten, I understand you completely. At first it just doesn't seem worthh
the bother. However, having finally gotten further in several games in the past
week, I agree with Darshan. Fire attacks and cold attacks (which harm potions
instead of scrolls) become more and more common as you go on, with the
exception of the Lair.

> This may (should) be change in the future. IIRC one of your
> patches seems a great help in stack management, time to have a look at
> it... Anyway, I don't want to leave stashes in the Orcish Mines, due to my
> problem with the actual dungeon Layout.

AFAII, any place where
- you won't tend to be killed because you are focused on item management
instead of monsters
- your stuff won't be destroyed/manipulated while you are moving towards it
- you won't have to go unnecessarily far to reach it

....is a fine central stash. (Keep in mind that I have never won, and that I
spent lots of energy arguing against a central stash a few days back... but am
now using one. ;-)) That means the Temple and (once they're cleared) Orc 1
(which, if separated into parts like in your game, can be used even if only its
entry room is cleared), Lair 1, and Hive 1 all come to mind as good spots,
though the Temple would mean either having your stash very high up, needing to
move all/part of your stash, or founding a second stash later on.

> Do randarts have the same abilities like "real" artifacts (acid
> resistance, not enchantable)?

Yes. (Note that you can still uncurse them by enchanting them... of course, you
may not yet have even known that you can uncurse things at all by enchanting
them.)

> >> H - a glowing robe
> >> {I even don't have a ?ofDC, otherwise I would know what it is}
> >
> > No scrolls of remove curse stashed away? By the time I'm level 13 I
> > usually have one or two stashes of those.
>
> Actually I had many, ask the firedrake what happened to them. ;-)

The chance that it's better than your current armor is low. "Runed" (weapons
only AFAIU), "embroidered" (robes only AFAIU), and "glowing" items are almost
always {good} or {excellent}, not {special}. ;-) (The remaining adjectives
AFAICT are all created equal.) Now, there *are* some very nice armor egos,
especially the "of resistance" ego (fire/cold combined), but... all in all, you
shouldn't be sad when you have to wait to ID "glowing" armor.

Of course, even {special} items can be like my great find, the amulet "Ab":

the amulet "Ab"
This amulet makes its wearer less accurate in hand combat.
It weighs around 1.0 aum.

Abfall! 🙂


Erik
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Tina Hall wrote:
> Rubinstein <picommander@t-online.de> shouted:
>
>> Darshan Shaligram wrote:
>
>> I meant firedrakes (don't know anything about fire drakes, are
>> there any in Crawl?)
>
> You mean little d (firedrakes) as opposed to big D (the plain ones of
> which are technically fire dragons)?

Yes.

> I don't bother dropping stuff, but I stash the really valuable
> destroyable items, more so when I don't have an amulet of
> conservation (lowers possibility of destruction of potions and
> scrolls) or a cloak of preservation■ (which is conservation and
> resist corrosion in one, at least from the description, don't know
> whether the effect is really 100% of both, but it's definitely my
> most favorite cloak).

Doesn't the corrosion come from the cloak sharing this ability with all
cloaks? Recently I've read some spoilers about (plain) cloaks providing
some acid resistance...

My thoughts and problems with leaving staches are generally a problem of
balance: If I don't have my ?DC or ?RC handy, I have to carry too much
unID'ed stuff around until I finally can risk to check them out (by
wearing/wielding). I just like to ditch useless stuff as soon as
possible. OTOH if I have to travel, say, 7 or 8 levels to get to my
scrolls would mean I have to travel through 7 or 8 more or less empty
levels. The simple problem here is food consumption w/o gaining new
food. Sometimes I have to burn lots of food (as a result of godly
healing) and so I'm not in the position to waste anything. Thus I have
to find a balance between the risk of losing scrolls and sufficient food
supply. I'm under the impression that many players use the temple as
their main camp. I guess I'ld have to spread my stashes much closer to me...

> [...]
>
>> Anyway, I don't want to leave stashes in the Orcish Mines, due to
>> my problem with the actual dungeon Layout.
>
>
> How did you get into the separate caves anyway? (Without a definite
> way to get out and back, I'd not be in the separate areas if I could
> help it.)

Just by ?oTeleport. It turned out that almost every bubble of the first
floor both had up and donstairs, only the "entry-bubble" has no
downstairs. I didn't check the other bubbles' upstairs, but I assume
they all would lead to the one downstairs in the main dungeon, from
where I only have access to the "closed" entry bubble again. Thus
the 'get out' is not the problem, the get back (once I left the mines) is.

>>> The only scroll where I carry more than 3 at a time is teleport.
>
>> Make sense. But why no blink?
>
> <speculating> Maybe because Blink is controlled, so you can Blink
> into a specific place and then run away, while teleport is more often
> uncontrolled early in the game?

Maybe I got you wrong (or you got me wrong), but wouldn't that be even
more reason to carry ?oBlink around? In emergency situations, in
particular hard hitting melee monsters, I would first read a ?oBlink and
then a ?oTeleport to gain the needed time for the delay of the latter...

>>> I'd be more tempted to go the fighting/invocation/evocation route
>>> with a healer than play with spellcasting. Up to you, of course,
>>> but if you happen to find a rod of destruction soon (from a
>>> scroll of acquirement, perhaps), I'd urge you to forget about
>>> spellcasting and work on those evocations.
>
>
> "AOL!"

Ah, that again! ;-) Unfortunately I forgot the meaning of it (it's
surely not the internet provider, I guess). Though I'm sure, in one of
your older posts in an other group you explained it. So I've tried to
google for that post, but no chance: "aol" appears just too often in the
from headers of the other posters. I vaguely recall some kind of an
insider joke...

>> Those were my thoughts, too. I was just unsure whether it's
>> possible to stay w/o (book-)magic for the entire game. I take your
>> comment as a "yes, it is".
>
> Me too: Yes, it is. :)

That's very good news! Not that I wanted to learn magic, I just thought
I had to.

> You don't _have_ to do Evocations, either, but it can help.
>
> Mixed types are really not the standard way to go in Crawl, Crawl
> favours specialization.

Another good news, I like that concept! 🙂
Though I'm still unsure what to do with my 2 other weapons. The glaive
really impressed me not at least with it's fire resistance and bonus to AC:

b - the +0 glaive of Udov
It emits flame when wielded, causing extra injury to most foes and up to
double damage against particularly susceptible opponents.
It affects your AC (+4).
It greatly protects you from fire.
It lets you teleport.
It lets you sense your surroundings.

and this one:

R - a +2,+2 short sword of holy wrath

I'm always paranoid about ghosts and other unholy creatures (not knowing
what unknown horror I'll see in the future).

Wouldn't this be a good reason to also train polearms and shord swords?
Or should I still conentrate on staves skill?
Currently staves are at 14, polearms at 11 and shord blades only at 1.
Of course I would immediately ditch them, if I only could find some
quarterstaves with similar abilities. But are there any?

> Of course the more places you go, the more Exp you get, the more
> skills (or levels of the skills you like) you can add.

Is there something like a high cap, from where further development
doesn't make sense any longer or even is impossible?

> My current character (KoVM) is doing that, but it took time to keep
> the skills I need to survive (spells) while playing around with what
> I actually wanted (get the Fighting skill to 27 before any others,

As I understand the fighting skill so far, it only determines your max
HP and not how successful you are with weapons, right?

> among other 'playing around' nonsense), and it helped that I had
> some idea of what to expect where.

I don't have this knowledge, besides my own experience from already
known regions. Though I'm usually don't mind using minor spoilers, I try
to prevent reading too much spoilers about this (particularly unknown
monsters) as far as possible. It slows down a possible win a lot, but
otherwise adds much thrill to the game.

>>> Crystal balls are useless. Throw 'em away. And yep, there are
>>> some nasty crystal balls around.
>
> Plural 'nasty'? I've seen three so far, seeing, fixation and energy,
> which are 'can be useful', 'nasty', and 'useless', respectively. Are
> there any others?

Does the 'crystal ball of seeing' the same as the Divination spell
Detect Creatures? What does fixation and energy?

>>>> There is a weapon shop on Lair 7 which offers an interesting
>>>> sling: the +4,+10 sling of Quick Death (630 gold). I've
>>>> collected enough money now, so I could buy it. Is it worth the
>>>> effort,
>>>
>>> No.
>
>
>> But that was a (somewhat disappointing) surprise to me! That sling
>> actually was the main reason for my current step into the Orcish
>> Mines (to grab the gold for it).
>
>
> What would you do with the sling? Does it have any special
> properties? Just throwing rocks, you have to consider that you have
> no Sling skill (as opposed to the weapon skills you already have),
> and would have to drag the ammo around, too.

So far I never was particularly impressed by slings, but with this one I
was just curious about what the high enchantment could do... So, when
you say it's still useless, I take it as in "high skill generally
overrules high enchantment"(?).

>>> I'd suggest you hang on to the cash. There'll be more shops, with
>>> better stuff. stache
>
>> Ok, so it shall be then. Looks like you're becoming my private
>> Investment consultant... *g*
>
> Oh, I hope I don't interfere. :)

No, why do you ask? You want his job? Surely not. Ask Darshan: I'm a
lousy Employer (I never pay).

Rubinstein
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Tina_Hall@kruemel.org (Tina Hall) wrote:
> Darshan Shaligram <scintilla@gmail.com> barked:
>> Tina_Hall@kruemel.org (Tina Hall) wrote:

>> [...]
>> Actually, for a simple fighter, doing both Invocations and
>> Evocations is perfectly easy. I like to turn off Invocations
>> around the 12-15 zone and keep going with Evocations. Then again,
>> I've never seriously played a Healer. Maybe Elyvilon does better
>> healing with lots of Invocation skill?

> What other skills do you have, and where do you go to get the Exp?

Fighting, one or two weapon skills, Armour, not much else.

As for the experience, playing a standard 3 rune game, there's
plenty of experience to go around.

> Besides, at the end of the game the '12-15 zone' should be the
> 'half max' skill level partition (whatever you call that part of
> the rough formula I tried to do) anyway.

I heed Xom's voice and religiously avoid all formulae in Crawl. 🙂

>> I've a better system! I just dump experience into whatever skills
>> look good to me and don't give a hang for the arithmetic behind
>> it.

>:) That's what killed my MfMo.

Really? I thought a monster killed that MfMo.

>> I consider crystal balls of energy a nasty waste of time; they're
>> right up there with staves of channeling. 🙂

> <g>

> Waste of time alone makes something nasty?

Absolutely. They cause brain damage.

> Well, I'd say crystal balls of seeing are slightly more useful
> than scrolls of torment and immolation.

'Slightly' is the mot juste.

> The crystal ball can be used right after entering the level, if
> nothing is in sight (slightly risky for negative effects I think),
> or better, when you wonder where some other parts of a so- far
> cleared level might be hidden, and you don't want to dig randomly
> (like in the Orcish Mines).

Personally, I always seem to have more scrolls of magic mapping than
I know what to do with.

>>> What would you do with the sling? Does it have any special
>>> properties? Just throwing rocks, you have to consider that you
>>> have no Sling skill (as opposed to the weapon skills you
>>> already have), and would have to drag the ammo around, too.

>> And even when you have some sling skill, the sling would still be
>> useless against anything big and mean.

> What if you've gotten Sling:27 somehow? <g>

Well, you'd have to be certifiably insane to get Slings to 27. 🙂

Even with Slings 27, slings wouldn't be much good against the big
guys, so you're left using the +10 sling against the popcorn.

Darshan
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Darshan Shaligram wrote:
> Rubinstein <picommander@t-online.de> wrote:
>
>> That's Picard, my current Merfolk Healer...
>
>> 5 black snakes {pretty tough}
>
> Wait till you meet the grey snakes. Ooh, those things are nasty.

That was a precious warning, thanks. Unfortunately a wasted one...
I didn't have to wait long and met my first grey snake on Snake Pit 1.
I was already in a state where I could snip away the black ones w/o
taking (almost) any damage. This one got me down to about 45HP and I
thought, "he, they *are* dangerous, but I'm actually be able to survive
them!".

Then I got my second one on Snake Pit 3. This one was deadly (and seemed
to be a lot harder than the first one).

Anyway, this char did a giant step compared to my former best chars:
He died as a clvl 14 Healer and clearly beat my former best char, a clvl
11 Healer. Before I had 6 chars dying at level 10 and lots of clvl 9
chars...

One last question: Do grey snakes have poison attacks?
I swapped to my res_poison equipment for the Snake Pit at the cost of -2
AC and a slightly less effective weapon (to compensate the -5 AC from
the res_poison cloak). Was that a mistake?

Thanks a lot for hints and suggestions,
Rubinstein
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Darshan Shaligram <scintilla@gmail.com> buzzed:
> (long) Tina_Hall@kruemel.org (Tina Hall) wrote:
>> Darshan Shaligram <scintilla@gmail.com> barked:

>>> [...]
>>> Actually, for a simple fighter, doing both Invocations and
>>> Evocations is perfectly easy. I like to turn off Invocations
>>> around the 12-15 zone and keep going with Evocations. Then
>>> again, I've never seriously played a Healer. Maybe Elyvilon
>>> does better healing with lots of Invocation skill?

>> What other skills do you have, and where do you go to get the
>> Exp?

> Fighting, one or two weapon skills, Armour, not much else.

Matches my 'formula' pretty well, no?

> As for the experience, playing a standard 3 rune game, there's
> plenty of experience to go around.

For so few skills. If you do more, you end up lacking something.

>>> I've a better system! I just dump experience into whatever
>>> skills look good to me and don't give a hang for the arithmetic
>>> behind it.

>> :) That's what killed my MfMo.

> Really? I thought a monster killed that MfMo.

I thought you'd be familiar with the concept of 'cause and effect'.

>> Well, I'd say crystal balls of seeing are slightly more useful
>> than scrolls of torment and immolation.

> 'Slightly' is the mot juste.

Eh?

>> The crystal ball can be used right after entering the level, if
>> nothing is in sight (slightly risky for negative effects I
>> think), or better, when you wonder where some other parts of a
>> so- far cleared level might be hidden, and you don't want to dig
>> randomly (like in the Orcish Mines).

> Personally, I always seem to have more scrolls of magic mapping
> than I know what to do with.

I didn't.

--
Tina the Storm Mage - a High Priest of the Raucous Notable Gander
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Rubinstein <picommander@t-online.de> buzzed:
> Tina Hall wrote:

>> I don't bother dropping stuff, but I stash the really valuable
>> destroyable items, more so when I don't have an amulet of
>> conservation (lowers possibility of destruction of potions and
>> scrolls) or a cloak of preservation■ (which is conservation
>> and resist corrosion in one, at least from the description,
>> don't know whether the effect is really 100% of both, but it's
>> definitely my most favorite cloak).

> Doesn't the corrosion come from the cloak sharing this ability
> with all cloaks? Recently I've read some spoilers about (plain)
> cloaks providing some acid resistance...

Don't know anything about that.

> My thoughts and problems with leaving staches are generally a
> problem of balance: If I don't have my ?DC or ?RC handy, I have
> to carry too much unID'ed stuff around until I finally can risk
> to check them out (by wearing/wielding). [...]

You can leave the valuable scrolls and potions on the previous fully
explored level, and grab and relocate them before going onto the
next.

>> How did you get into the separate caves anyway? (Without a
>> definite way to get out and back, I'd not be in the separate
>> areas if I could help it.)

> [...] Thus the 'get out' is not the problem, the get back (once I
> left the mines) is.

'Get out and back' is my point, though.

>> <speculating> Maybe because Blink is controlled, so you can
>> Blink into a specific place and then run away, while teleport is
>> more often uncontrolled early in the game?

> Maybe I got you wrong (or you got me wrong), but wouldn't that be
> even more reason to carry ?oBlink around?

Why? Once you've escaped you can go and get more from the stash.

>> "AOL!"

> Ah, that again! ;-) Unfortunately I forgot the meaning of it
> (it's surely not the internet provider, I guess).

It means "Me too!", because of the habit of some posters (AoLers
first? others are certainly capable of this misbehaviour) of
fullquotes with nothing but a "Me too!" added.

> Though I'm still unsure what to do with my 2 other weapons.

Another rule for Crawl is (sort of): There's plenty of
nifty-_appearing_ stuff to tempt you, but it isn't really as much of
an advantage as it looks on first glance. Or in short: Lots of
sparkling stuff - usually worthless glass. Whether it's the
temptation of eating mutagenic chunks, or dragging around 3
different weapons (or other items) for special occasions.

> The glaive really impressed me not at least with it's fire
> resistance and bonus to AC:

> b - the +0 glaive of Udov
> It emits flame when wielded, causing extra injury to most foes
> and up to double damage against particularly susceptible
> opponents. It affects your AC (+4).
> It greatly protects you from fire.
> It lets you teleport.
> It lets you sense your surroundings.

This one is worth carrying around for when you really need fire
resistance and have no other convenient source (and optionally to
use the abilities), but not to actually train the weapon skill for.
You'd need something else to actually kill monsters with while
wielding this, something that matches your skills and does damage.

> and this one:

> R - a +2,+2 short sword of holy wrath

Not worth dragging around when you don't concentrate on short sword
skill.

> I'm always paranoid about ghosts and other unholy creatures (not
> knowing what unknown horror I'll see in the future).

The 'holy wrath' brand can appear on other weapons, too. Something
you have no skill in isn't likely to kill ghosts better than a nifty
weapon that you can actually use well.

> Wouldn't this be a good reason to also train polearms and shord
> swords?

No. That'd just waste Exp. The dungeon is full of interesting
looking objects. What do you do when you find a +2/+3 dwarven
battleaxe of freezing? Train axes, too? And then you find a +0 great
mace of disruption and also train maces?

Concentrate on one main weapon skill (from the start of the game),
and look out for nifty objects that match it. Apart from artifacts
conveying needed resistances (or useful abilities) for a quick wield
- but only temporary until you find something that conveys the same
better - anything else is just junk to tempt you.

You can switch between axe and mace, or short/long blades, if you
really want to (because the skills are related and make learning the
other quicker until they're equal), but I'd not recommend that
either, unless the object is really worth it and will be your
ultimate weapon.

> Or should I still conentrate on staves skill?

I don't know. (I don't think staves are much good in the first
place. Could be that I missed/forgot some nifty ones, though.)

> Currently staves are at 14, polearms at 11 and shord blades only
> at 1. Of course I would immediately ditch them, if I only could
> find some quarterstaves with similar abilities. But are there
> any?

There are artifact staves, don't think I've seen one of holy wrath,
but I don't think that's such a necessary brand to have, anyway.
It's too specified, when you normally need something with extra
damage for just the very critters it doesn't specially hurt (they're
a lot more common outside some special branches).

>> Of course the more places you go, the more Exp you get, the more
>> skills (or levels of the skills you like) you can add.

> Is there something like a high cap, from where further
> development doesn't make sense any longer or even is impossible?

In general, I'd turn off Traps&Doors and Divination at around 8, but
for your main weapon, 27 is the goal (27 should be the maximum; if
you train normally it stops increasing there).

>> My current character (KoVM) is doing that, but it took time to
>> keep the skills I need to survive (spells) while playing around
>> with what I actually wanted (get the Fighting skill to 27 before
>> any others,

> As I understand the fighting skill so far, it only determines
> your max HP and not how successful you are with weapons, right?

No idea (though max 237Hp - without the robust mutation - is pretty
nice, especially for a spellcaster), I wanted the title, 'Slayer',
and someone claimed it's difficult to get without having to switch
weapons all the time near the end, which was wrong. I'd gotten the
title vaguely before or after I did the Tomb (don't recall exactly).

I'd started with a Short Blade (naturally), but switched to Long
Blades when I found one (Short Blade skill got no further than 6 in
the game), and alternated that with Unarmed Combat, both skills (and
most others) turned off, with mainly only Fighting, Spellcasting and
Evocations still 'on'. (Long Blades and Unarmed Combat were both at
16 when Fighting reached 27.) I accidentally got a level of staves
(by running into monsters while wielding some staff), but the most
difficult thing was actually getting Dodging below Fighting, so I
wore some 'heavy' armour (swamp dragon) for a time (also read a
manual a few times, because I wasn't sure I'd not switch to some
nifty foo mail later - had nothing else where I had to dump the
Exp). Next skill to hit 27 was Spellcasting, then Necromancy (that
with a manual).

Unfortunately some idiot bug ruined my title by raising Stealth to
28 (by reading a manual).

>> among other 'playing around' nonsense), and it helped that I had
>> some idea of what to expect where.

> I don't have this knowledge, besides my own experience from
> already known regions. Though I'm usually don't mind using minor
> spoilers, I try to prevent reading too much spoilers about this
> (particularly unknown monsters) as far as possible. It slows down
> a possible win a lot, but otherwise adds much thrill to the game.

I don't understand that at all.

> Does the 'crystal ball of seeing' the same as the Divination
> spell Detect Creatures? What does fixation and energy?

Crystal ball of seeing does a Magic Mapping effect, I think only for
a smaller area, though, like the mutation.

The mutation actually works in the Abyss, btw, yet another bug I
assume (can't recall trying there with items). I only applied the
mutation because I thought I was back in Pandemonium (from where I'd
been thrown into the Abyss by a monster) after stepping on a gate
and not being back in the main dungeon after trying to enter it, but
instead finding myself in an unknown area that was even mappable,
which turned out to be still the Abyss, that had moved me from the
gate to somewhere else the moment I wanted to enter the gate.

> So, when you say it's still useless, I take it as in "high skill
> generally overrules high enchantment"(?).

Usually. (There are always exceptions I guess.)

>> Oh, I hope I don't interfere. :)

> No, why do you ask? You want his job? Surely not. Ask Darshan:
> I'm a lousy Employer (I never pay).

It was a joke.

--
Tina the Crazy Crawler - a Priest of the Red Nervous Generator
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Peter Borgmann <picommander@t-online.de> wrote:
> Darshan Shaligram wrote:
>> Rubinstein <picommander@t-online.de> wrote:

>>> That's Picard, my current Merfolk Healer...

>>> 5 black snakes {pretty tough}

>> Wait till you meet the grey snakes. Ooh, those things are nasty.

> That was a precious warning, thanks. Unfortunately a wasted one...

🙂 The next one will go better.

> Anyway, this char did a giant step compared to my former best
> chars: He died as a clvl 14 Healer and clearly beat my former best
> char, a clvl 11 Healer. Before I had 6 chars dying at level 10 and
> lots of clvl 9 chars...

You're just a few steps away from a winner. One of the first steps
I'd suggest is playing an easier class/race. 🙂

> One last question: Do grey snakes have poison attacks?

No. A poison attack is superfluous, considering the ridiculous
amounts of damage they do.

> I swapped to my res_poison equipment for the Snake Pit at the cost
> of -2 AC and a slightly less effective weapon (to compensate the
> -5 AC from the res_poison cloak). Was that a mistake?

It probably was. You don't really need poison resistance in the
Snake Pit if you have halfway decent EV (or a lot of hp and AC).

Darshan
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

bork bork bork Tina Hall bork 3:40:00 AM bork 11/24/2004 bork bork:

> Unfortunately some idiot bug ruined my title by raising Stealth to
> 28 (by reading a manual).

I'm surprised at you, Tina. In most of your writing, you behave more maturely
than this (being more interested in having a particular kewl PC title than in
anything else about the game, being whiny (including your other post) when
your effort doesn't pan out). I mean that seriously -- I've lurked a lot here
and, elsewhere and elsewhen, you seem to act normally. Huh.

Erik
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Tina Hall wrote:
> Rubinstein <picommander@t-online.de> buzzed:
>
>> Tina Hall wrote:
>
>>> I don't bother dropping stuff, but I stash the really valuable
>>> destroyable items, more so when I don't have an amulet of
>>> conservation (lowers possibility of destruction of potions and
>>> scrolls) or a cloak of preservation■ (which is conservation and
>>> resist corrosion in one, at least from the description, don't
>>> know whether the effect is really 100% of both, but it's
>>> definitely my most favorite cloak).
>
>
>> Doesn't the corrosion come from the cloak sharing this ability with
>> all cloaks? Recently I've read some spoilers about (plain) cloaks
>> providing some acid resistance...
>
> Don't know anything about that.

Sorry, I confused player protection from acid with equipment protection
(corrosion).
Got it from here (a spoiler page):
http://koti.mbnet.fi/lava/crawl/tips_a.html
The relevant line is
"Cloaks protect you from splashes of acid."

But it says "you" and not "your equipment".
My fault...

>>> <speculating> Maybe because Blink is controlled, so you can Blink
>>> into a specific place and then run away, while teleport is more
>>> often uncontrolled early in the game?
>
>> Maybe I got you wrong (or you got me wrong), but wouldn't that be
>> even more reason to carry ?oBlink around?
>
> Why? Once you've escaped you can go and get more from the stash.

I understood the original comment (menawhile snipped away) as in "no
?oBlink at all".

>>> "AOL!"
>
>> Ah, that again! ;-) Unfortunately I forgot the meaning of it (it's
>> surely not the internet provider, I guess).
>
> It means "Me too!", because of the habit of some posters (AoLers
> first? others are certainly capable of this misbehaviour) of
> fullquotes with nothing but a "Me too!" added.

Yes, now I recall again ;-)

>> Or should I still conentrate on staves skill?
>
> I don't know. (I don't think staves are much good in the first place.
> Could be that I missed/forgot some nifty ones, though.)

This staff was a staff of speed, not too shabby at all. My char probably
would still be alive, if I'ld only used my staff against that grey
snake. I just didn't know that they don't have a poison attack. And my
only source of res_poison was that insane cloak with AC-5. Since I
swapped it with a cloak+1, that made a total of AC-6. To compensate it,
I used the glaive, which provided AC+4. In the end it was sheer paranoia
what killed my char...
I'm not whining, though. That's just the prize for refusing heavy spoilers.

> Unfortunately some idiot bug ruined my title by raising Stealth to 28
> (by reading a manual).

What's so utterly wrong about this? Is it just losing your title (a
formal issue) or did you lose any functionality? Or do you worry about a
(unintentionally) bug exploid? I just don't understand the problem.

>>> among other 'playing around' nonsense), and it helped that I had
>>> some idea of what to expect where.
>
>> I don't have this knowledge, besides my own experience from already
>> known regions. Though I'm usually don't mind using minor spoilers,
>> I try to prevent reading too much spoilers about this
>> (particularly unknown monsters) as far as possible. It slows down a
>> possible win a lot, but otherwise adds much thrill to the game.
>
> I don't understand that at all.

What don't you understand, my words or my point? If the latter is true,
then it all has to do with my idea of playing games (which is very
different whether it's about playing a game of chess or a roguelike,
btw). It's just a personal preference, not much to understand and hardly
arguable.

>>> Oh, I hope I don't interfere. :)
>
>> No, why do you ask? You want his job? Surely not. Ask Darshan: I'm
>> a lousy Employer (I never pay).
>
> It was a joke.

Be sure I wouldn't have missed it, even w/o the smilie... ;-)
Btw, my comment was deadly serious! *g*

Rubinstein
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Peter Borgmann <picommander@t-online.de> wrote:
> Tina Hall wrote:
>> Rubinstein <picommander@t-online.de> buzzed:

[using scrolls of Blink to escape from immediate danger]
>>> Maybe I got you wrong (or you got me wrong), but wouldn't that
>>> be even more reason to carry ?oBlink around?
>>
>> Why? Once you've escaped you can go and get more from the stash.

> I understood the original comment (menawhile snipped away) as in
> "no ?oBlink at all".

Afair the original comment was something like 'lots of
teleportation' (as opposed to just a few).

>> Unfortunately some idiot bug ruined my title by raising Stealth
>> to 28 (by reading a manual).

> What's so utterly wrong about this?

It just takes out too much fun. The three major goals of the game
were getting the title from Fighting, using Necromutation to clear
out Hell, and get all runes. So far I've not found a single one of
the special Panedmonium runes, and running around forever with a
character that's no longer fun, trying to get those runes, is not
appealing. It's not the character I wanted to finish the game with,
so playing at all is pointless.

> Is it just losing your title (a formal issue) or did you lose any
> functionality?

It's not just a formal issue, this guy deserved the title 'Slayer'.
I don't know whether the game can actually deal with the wrong skill
level, and I'm not interested in trying out.

> Or do you worry about a (unintentionally) bug exploid?

There are bugs that harm characters, and there are bugs that aid
characters. I don't see why I should just accept the former while
avoiding the latter. The latter actually balance the former.

> I just don't understand the problem.

I was enjoying this game, despite it getting rather boring in
Pandemonium, because I wanted to finish it with all runes and this
title. The problem is that that is no longer possible.

>>> Though I'm usually don't mind using minor spoilers, I try to
>>> prevent reading too much spoilers about this (particularly
>>> unknown monsters) as far as possible. It slows down a possible
>>> win a lot, but otherwise adds much thrill to the game.
>>
>> I don't understand that at all.

> What don't you understand, my words or my point?

What could be fun about not knowing the monster you meet.

> If the latter is true, then it all has to do with my idea of
> playing games (which is very different whether it's about playing
> a game of chess or a roguelike, btw). It's just a personal
> preference, not much to understand and hardly arguable.

What makes you think I want to argue it? I just don't understand it.

--
Tina - Living in the Twilight Zone.
Multiple exclamation marks are a sure sign of an insane mind!!!!
(Apologies to Terry Pratchett.)
CrossPoint/FreeXP v3.40 RC3. Usenet/Fidonet gateway, no internet access.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Tina Hall wrote:
> Peter Borgmann <picommander@t-online.de> wrote:
>
>> Tina Hall wrote:
>>
>>> Rubinstein <picommander@t-online.de> buzzed:
>>
>>>> Though I'm usually don't mind using minor spoilers, I try to
>>>> prevent reading too much spoilers about this (particularly
>>>> unknown monsters) as far as possible. It slows down a possible
>>>> win a lot, but otherwise adds much thrill to the game.
>>>
>>> I don't understand that at all.
>
>
>> What don't you understand, my words or my point?
>
>
> What could be fun about not knowing the monster you meet.

Perhaps comparable to reading a criminal story and not knowing who the
murder is before reading the last chapter.
That's what I meant with "thrill". Winning the game is just one of
several possible goals. But what am I telling you? You should know this,
since you already choose several challanges for your own games (aiming
for a title, all runes e.g.). And what I am searching for, is "thrill".
So hard to understand?

>> If the latter is true, then it all has to do with my idea of
>> playing games (which is very different whether it's about playing a
>> game of chess or a roguelike, btw). It's just a personal
>> preference, not much to understand and hardly arguable.
>
> What makes you think I want to argue it? I just don't understand it.

You assume too much. It was a simple if-then clause: "if the latter is
true, then...", otherwise something else (probably misspelling) - or
just forget it.
There was nothing between the lines and nothing important at all...

Rubinstein
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

TRENDING THREADS

Latest posts

Moderators online

Share this page

COMPANY
RESOURCES
FOLLOW
Top Bottom