[crawl] whine/bug

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I had a demonspawn necromancer doing fairly poorly; he had just been
bitten by a snake and poisoned. he killed the snake, gained a level,
then mutated to be immune to poison. Great! except he was still
poisoned, got sick once more, then killed by a goblin. it wouldn't
have saved him, but that mutation should remove the poison
characteristic.


Dungeon Crawl version 4.0.0 beta 26 character file.

Orcus the Grave Robber (Demonspawn)
(Level 3 Necromancer)

Play time: 00:24:34 Number of turns: 2434

Experience : 3/44
Strength 9 Dexterity 11 Intelligence 18
Hit Points : -1/21 (dead) Magic Points : 2/5
AC : 3 Evasion : 9 Shield : 0
GP : 57

You are on level 2.
You are not hungry.

Inventory:
Hand weapons
a - a +0,+2 dwarven mace (weapon)
b - a +0 dagger
i - a +0 dagger
q - a -1,+0 orcish mace
Missiles
e - 48 +0 elven darts
j - a +0 dart
r - 7 poisoned +3 needles
Armour
g - a +0 leather armour (worn)
m - a +0 helmet (worn)
Comestibles
d - a bread ration
h - 2 pears
k - an apple
l - a lemon
s - a choko
Scrolls
f - 2 scrolls of teleportation
o - a scroll of random uselessness
Books
c - a book of Necromancy


You have 13 experience left.

Skills:
- Level 1 Dodging
- Level 2 Stealth
+ Level 1 Spellcasting
- Level 4 Necromancy


You have 2 spell levels left.
You know the following spells:

Your Spells Type Success
Level
a - Pain Necromancy Very Good
1
b - Animate Skeleton Necromancy Very Good
1

Mutations & Other Weirdness
* Your system is immune to poisons.

 

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Jason Northrup <jasonnorthrup@yahoo.com> screeched:

> I had a demonspawn necromancer doing fairly poorly; he had just
> been bitten by a snake and poisoned. he killed the snake, gained
> a level, then mutated to be immune to poison. Great! except he
> was still poisoned, got sick once more, then killed by a goblin.
> it wouldn't have saved him, but that mutation should remove the
> poison characteristic.

Works the same if you put on a ring of poison resistance while
poisoned; it won't remove the poisoning.

Maybe it only works against the poison getting into your body, and
once the poison is there it does its work anyway. Pretty much like
building a wall with barbed wire on top around the garden once the
masked serial killer is already in your house. It'll keep out
others, but not the one who's currently after your hide. 😉

In that case, the phrasing of the mutation is wrong.

<snip most of DsNe dump>

> Mutations & Other Weirdness
> * Your system is immune to poisons.

Something like 'Poisons can't get into your system.' sounds odd, but
would actually agree with the behaviour.

Unless of course the behaviour is not as intended. (Changing the
behaviour would get my vote, too.)

--
Tina the Disarmer - an Elder of the Really Noisome Grease

 

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On Sat, 18 Sep 2004 05:46:00 GMT+1, Tina_Hall@kruemel.org (Tina Hall)
wrote:

>Jason Northrup <jasonnorthrup@yahoo.com> screeched:
>
>> I had a demonspawn necromancer doing fairly poorly; he had just
>> been bitten by a snake and poisoned. he killed the snake, gained
>> a level, then mutated to be immune to poison. Great! except he
>> was still poisoned, got sick once more, then killed by a goblin.
>> it wouldn't have saved him, but that mutation should remove the
>> poison characteristic.
>
>Works the same if you put on a ring of poison resistance while
>poisoned; it won't remove the poisoning.

Rings *should* work this way. Nevermind the realism aspect (and rings
may plausibly work by "poison barrier" effect, so it isn't a realism
problem anyway), for game balance reasons, this would make it too
easy, since you could slip on that ring to negate poisoning any time.
The mutation can't be produced at will and does not need to be so
limited.

>> Mutations & Other Weirdness
>> * Your system is immune to poisons.
>
>Something like 'Poisons can't get into your system.' sounds odd, but
>would actually agree with the behaviour.

>Unless of course the behaviour is not as intended. (Changing the
>behaviour would get my vote, too.)

It would make more sense as a biologically-based mutation to actually
resist poisons rather than work through a magic "poison barrier", so I
think the behavior of the mutation should be changed to eliminate any
existing poisoning.

Richard Daniel Henry
danhenry@inreach.com

 

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R. Dan Henry <danhenry@inreach.com> bellowed:
> Tina_Hall@kruemel.org (Tina Hall) wrote:
>> Jason Northrup <jasonnorthrup@yahoo.com> screeched:

>>> I had a demonspawn necromancer doing fairly poorly; he had just
>>> been bitten by a snake and poisoned. he killed the snake,
>>> gained a level, then mutated to be immune to poison. Great!
>>> except he was still poisoned, got sick once more, then killed
>>> by a goblin. it wouldn't have saved him, but that mutation
>>> should remove the poison characteristic.
>>
>> Works the same if you put on a ring of poison resistance while
>> poisoned; it won't remove the poisoning.

> Rings *should* work this way. Nevermind the realism aspect (and
> rings may plausibly work by "poison barrier" effect, so it isn't
> a realism problem anyway), for game balance reasons, this would
> make it too easy, since you could slip on that ring to negate
> poisoning any time. The mutation can't be produced at will and
> does not need to be so limited.

While in theory that might be a way to abuse it, in practice,
'slipping something on when I need it' doesn't work in Crawl. By the
time you need it, it's too late and you're in the middle of a
battle.

In the case of poison resistance, you're being beaten on (and
alternately confused) in the Swamp, surrounded by nagas who cut you
into pieces in the Snake Pit, have various demons beat on you when
you run into a green death, are already paralyzed and dying when you
run into a yellow wasp, and have lots of killer bees beat on you in
the Hive, for example.

In the cases where you (any individual player) can do without poison
resistance, you do that, and when you can't, you need to put the
ring on before you run into the danger.

If I find a ring of poison resistance, I mean to wear it (at all
times, or at least where I do need it), and if it removes any active
poisoning, it'd actually give poison resistance.

>>> Mutations & Other Weirdness
>>> * Your system is immune to poisons.
>>
>> Something like 'Poisons can't get into your system.' sounds odd,
>> but would actually agree with the behaviour.

>> Unless of course the behaviour is not as intended. (Changing the
>> behaviour would get my vote, too.)

> It would make more sense as a biologically-based mutation to
> actually resist poisons rather than work through a magic "poison
> barrier", so I think the behavior of the mutation should be
> changed to eliminate any existing poisoning.

Who says it is biologically-based, rather than magic-based?

--
Tina the Spry - an Elder of the Raw Number Gesture

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

A more realistic solution would be that neither the ring nor mutation
should keep you from innoculation of poison, but instead, simply keeps
you from damage by poison. hence, take the ring off while still
poisoned and get sick again.
it's harder to code though; character needs a "poison in system"
switch, and a second switch for "poison damage"
also, how would it be displayed?
now, whether this should shorten, prolong, or not affect at all the
duration of the poison in system is another question.

In fact, the most realistic solution would be that immunity just
greatly increases the chance per turn of losing the poisoned stat ( or
shortens the average sick time, however it's calculated), including a
chance to lose a level of poisoning within the turn it's gained.

I understand from spoilers that there is a random chance per turn to
lose a level for monsters.
If it's the same for characters, then you still might have to wear the
ring for a few turns before it cures you. If you take the ring off
before you're cured, it won't really have done any good at all.

 

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Jason Northrup <jasonnorthrup@yahoo.com> buzzed:

> A more realistic solution would be that neither the ring nor
> mutation should keep you from innoculation of poison, but
> instead, simply keeps you from damage by poison. hence, take the
> ring off while still poisoned and get sick again.

I like that.

> also, how would it be displayed?

Why any difference in display? It can all stay as it is and make
sense. (Meaning the mentioning of 'poison' on the stat side of the
screen, as well as the phrasing of mutations/abilities.)

> now, whether this should shorten, prolong, or not affect at all
> the duration of the poison in system is another question.

No difference, I'd say.

> In fact, the most realistic solution would be that immunity just
> greatly increases the chance per turn of losing the poisoned stat
> ( or shortens the average sick time, however it's calculated),
> including a chance to lose a level of poisoning within the turn
> it's gained.

Don't know whether I'd like that, but in that case different levels
of poison resistance could gain some value; the first level could
prevent damage (but you stay poisoned), a second level could
prevent/end poisoning upon aquiring it. Or something.

--
Tina the Crawling Darts Champion - a Believer of the Riotous Nipping Gatherer

 

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jasonnorthrup@yahoo.com (Jason Northrup) wrote in message news:<27e1b836.0409191126.741c2efd@posting.google.com>...
> A more realistic solution would be that neither the ring nor mutation
> should keep you from innoculation of poison, but instead, simply keeps
> you from damage by poison. hence, take the ring off while still
> poisoned and get sick again.
> it's harder to code though; character needs a "poison in system"
> switch, and a second switch for "poison damage"
> also, how would it be displayed?
> now, whether this should shorten, prolong, or not affect at all the
> duration of the poison in system is another question.
>
> In fact, the most realistic solution would be that immunity just
> greatly increases the chance per turn of losing the poisoned stat ( or
> shortens the average sick time, however it's calculated), including a
> chance to lose a level of poisoning within the turn it's gained.
>
> I understand from spoilers that there is a random chance per turn to
> lose a level for monsters.
> If it's the same for characters, then you still might have to wear the
> ring for a few turns before it cures you. If you take the ring off
> before you're cured, it won't really have done any good at all.

Most fun I think would be having the immunity naturally cure posioning
quickly (as your char's system adapts to it) and having the ring
prevent poison damage.

one of these days, I'm going to have to find a compiler and make my
own crawl to my liking (assuming I learn the programming language).