[Crawl] YASD (literally)

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Drink which item?
There was something very wrong with that liquid!
You feel dopey.
You die...

That was my current (and promizing) char of a series of berserkers who
was doing well at the bottom of the Hive (first time there!). He was
very low on Int, typical for a berserker, but also mutated (Int -1),
with a current Int of 3. Then I quaffed that unId'd potion... I was
aware that a !oDegeneration could kill me, but I also was pretty sure
this potion was already identified. But this *must* have been such a
potion (unless there is another one with a similar stat-draining effect
I'm not knowing yet)!

But then I recalled the triggered amnesia trap before. The obvious
conclusion now would be, that Amnesia, other then Forgetfulness, cancels
the memory of already Id'ed items. If this is true(?), I've learned
something new again...

On a sidenote, I was pretty surprised that Trog seems to respect my
current focus on axes. I already got my 4th gift, and all were axes!
I wonder how it is calculated... Does it depend on birth- or current
skills? I can't conclude it from these char, since he never opened any
other (melee-) skill than for axes. And as a Hill Dwarf he also had no
other birth skill (other than for instance Minotaurs, which start with 2
skills, axes and polearms). Or were those 4 gifts nothing more than a
lucky strike?

Rubinstein

 

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bork bork bork Rubinstein bork 2:54:19 PM bork 12/6/2004 bork bork:

> Drink which item?
> There was something very wrong with that liquid!
> You feel dopey.
> You die...
>
> That was my current (and promizing) char of a series of berserkers who
> was doing well at the bottom of the Hive (first time there!). He was
> very low on Int, typical for a berserker, but also mutated (Int -1),
> with a current Int of 3. Then I quaffed that unId'd potion... I was
> aware that a !oDegeneration could kill me, but I also was pretty sure
> this potion was already identified. But this must have been such a
> potion (unless there is another one with a similar stat-draining effect
> I'm not knowing yet)!
>
> But then I recalled the triggered amnesia trap before. The obvious
> conclusion now would be, that Amnesia, other then Forgetfulness, cancels
> the memory of already Id'ed items. If this is true(?), I've learned
> something new again...

Just in case -- you do know about the "\" command, right?

> On a sidenote, I was pretty surprised that Trog seems to respect my
> current focus on axes. I already got my 4th gift, and all were axes!
> I wonder how it is calculated... Does it depend on birth- or current
> skills? I can't conclude it from these char, since he never opened any
> other (melee-) skill than for axes. And as a Hill Dwarf he also had no
> other birth skill (other than for instance Minotaurs, which start with 2
> skills, axes and polearms). Or were those 4 gifts nothing more than a
> lucky strike?
>
> Rubinstein

Fortunately I don't know enough to give you a source-code-based spoiler; let
me just give you my intuition, influenced however by some posts on the topic.
And let me start with ?oAcq.

Reading a ?oAcq gives you an item in the requested category, while taking
into account:
- what you have already seen in the current game
- current skill levels that affect what items in the category are and are not
attractive

Wishing for a rod/staff seems to illustrate this really well -- you'll tend
to get a rod of destruction if your Evocations dominates over spellcasting,
otherwise e.g. a rod of conjuration if your Conjurations skill is dominant,
etc. (Actually, I took advantage of this to get a \oConj early in my current
game -- definitely the best use a conjurer can make of these scrolls.)

So my guess is: yes, Trog and Harakiri ;-) do hand out ) and ] that respect
your skills, not perfectly so, but at least more so than they would if they
were entirely random.

Erik

 

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Erik Piper wrote:
> bork bork bork Rubinstein bork 2:54:19 PM bork 12/6/2004 bork bork:
>
>> [snip YAsuperSD]
>> But then I recalled the triggered amnesia trap before. The obvious
>> conclusion now would be, that Amnesia, other then Forgetfulness,
>> cancels the memory of already Id'ed items. If this is true(?), I've
>> learned something new again...
>
> Just in case -- you do know about the "\" command, right?

Of course I do. Strange enough, I never realized the effect of amnesia
before. I even didn't think about the possibility of losing memory of
items! Now that I think of it, it seems so obvious to me that I can't
understand myself. It's even not such a rare 'feature' in roguelikes...
Maybe I thought (err: dreamed of) forgetfulness might be a replacement
for the nastier amnesia effect and Crawl would be a nice game, oh well!

Anyway, that YASD was just for your amusement.
Hope you all had some fun out there ;-)

>> On a sidenote, I was pretty surprised that Trog seems to respect my
>> current focus on axes.
>> [...]
>
> Fortunately I don't know enough to give you a source-code-based
> spoiler; let me just give you my intuition, influenced however by some
> posts on the topic. And let me start with ?oAcq.

Interesting, I also had an older post in mind where someone was
complaining about the gifts of his god, which made me think I had to
expect...

> [...] So my guess is: yes, Trog and Harakiri ;-) do hand out ) and ]
> that respect your skills, not perfectly so, but at least more so than
> they would if they were entirely random.

....exactly that: pure random!
The way it is is much more fun of course. 🙂

Rubinstein

 

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bork bork bork Rubinstein bork 4:53:09 PM bork 12/6/2004 bork bork:

> Erik Piper wrote:
> > bork bork bork Rubinstein bork 2:54:19 PM bork 12/6/2004 bork bork:
> >
> >> [snip YAsuperSD]
> >> But then I recalled the triggered amnesia trap before. The obvious
> >> conclusion now would be, that Amnesia, other then Forgetfulness,
> >> cancels the memory of already Id'ed items. If this is true(?), I've
> >> learned something new again...
> >
> > Just in case -- you do know about the "\" command, right?
>
> Of course I do. Strange enough, I never realized the effect of amnesia
> before. I even didn't think about the possibility of losing memory of
> items!

I always suspected something like this, but never tried to confirm it,
especially since I tend to suffer from amnesia outside the @... 🙂

That probably explains some of the surprisingly late un-ID'd early-type
potions I've sometimes found. I wonder if it's biased towards the detrimental
types, since I believe if my @ sometimes forgot something like !oHW, I'd have
noticed it by now.

(A small serving of spoiler on the side: I recently discovered that
divinations miscasts can make you forget randomly selected spells. Could be
an interesting way of cleaning up your spell list if you don't worship SM and
can't find Selective Amnesia for a long time, although since I don't know a
full list of divinations miscast effects, I'd hardly recommend it as
guaranteed safe... ;-) )

[...]

> > Fortunately I don't know enough to give you a source-code-based
> > spoiler; let me just give you my intuition, influenced however by some
> > posts on the topic. And let me start with ?oAcq.
>
> Interesting, I also had an older post in mind where someone was
> complaining about the gifts of his god, which made me think I had to
> expect...

I thought that for some time too. And my judgement is heavily biased by
Vehumet's gift-giving. So OT*O*H...

....

....Vehumet IS a stuffy (if ultra-violent) learne'd spellcaster god, after
all. Perhaps you just got lucky, and perhaps most of the time Trog really is
too busy getting drunk on potions of Jack Daniel's ^W ^W beserk rage to pay
attention to your skill foci. 🙂

[...]

OK, enough NG-spamming for this short winter day...

Erik

 

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Erik Piper wrote:
> bork bork bork Rubinstein bork 4:53:09 PM bork 12/6/2004 bork bork:
>
>> Erik Piper wrote:
>> > bork bork bork Rubinstein bork 2:54:19 PM bork 12/6/2004 bork bork:
>> >
>> >> [snip YAsuperSD]
>> >
> [...] (A small serving of spoiler on the side: I recently discovered
> that divinations miscasts can make you forget randomly selected
> spells. Could be an interesting way of cleaning up your spell list if
> you don't worship SM and can't find Selective Amnesia for a long time,
> although since I don't know a full list of divinations miscast
> effects, I'd hardly recommend it as guaranteed safe... ;-) )

Randomly? Deliberately?? Seriously???
That would be <cough> *interesting*! ;-)

Where we are at spoilers and the effects of forgetfulness and amnesia...
Today I found, or better (a little more carefully), it _seems_ that an
"oClarity protects (always? sometimes?) from forgetfulness.
Could you or someone else confirm this?
And if true, does it also protect from amnesia?

Rubinstein

 

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bork bork bork Rubinstein bork 12:39:54 AM bork 12/7/2004 bork bork:

> Erik Piper wrote:
> > bork bork bork Rubinstein bork 4:53:09 PM bork 12/6/2004 bork bork:
> >
> >> Erik Piper wrote:
> >> > bork bork bork Rubinstein bork 2:54:19 PM bork 12/6/2004 bork bork:
> >> >
> >> >> [snip YAsuperSD]
> >> >
> > [...] (A small serving of spoiler on the side: I recently discovered
> > that divinations miscasts can make you forget randomly selected
> > spells. Could be an interesting way of cleaning up your spell list if
> > you don't worship SM and can't find Selective Amnesia for a long time,
> > although since I don't know a full list of divinations miscast
> > effects, I'd hardly recommend it as guaranteed safe... ;-) )
>
> Randomly? Deliberately?? Seriously???
> That would be <cough> interesting! ;-)

Sure, why not? You only learn spells from books, and books are AFAIK
indestructable. So if you forget a spell you didn't want to forget, you just
go back and learn it again. Of course, only a fool would carry every book
around, but a player who maintains a central stash of books can simply
perform this exercise in the vicinity of that stash.

But it's possible that other divinations miscast effects make this
inadvisable (perhaps you can also forget item IDs), and above all, if nothing
else, any miscast can contaminate you, and too much contamination in a short
time (like through fishing for a Forget Spell miscast) is a Bad Thing...

Unless, of course, you're wearing an Amulet of Resist Mutation, which reduces
the mutation chance to 10% of normal. Hmmm.... HMMMM..... (How do you make a
"devil face" emoticon in ASCII?) 🙂

> Where we are at spoilers and the effects of forgetfulness and amnesia...
> Today I found, or better (a little more carefully), it seems that an
> "oClarity protects (always? sometimes?) from forgetfulness.
> Could you or someone else confirm this?

I just checked a scrolls spoiler which confirms your statement.

> And if true, does it also protect from amnesia?

Well, I've stepped onto amnesia traps while wearing an "oClarity and gotten
the "You feel foo for a moment" message, sure.

Crawl is pretty consistent IME as regards protective items -- if you're
wearing protection from malady foo, then *every* foo attack (whether from a
monster, trap, or item) fails, usually (always?) with a message. With
mutation and corrosion not being considered "maladies" for the above.

Erik

 

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>But then I recalled the triggered amnesia trap before. The obvious
>conclusion now would be, that Amnesia, other then Forgetfulness,
cancels
>the memory of already Id'ed items. If this is true(?), I've learned
>something new again...

Yes, this would make sense, especially if this were NH, but I've never
noticed that happen in crawl before (at least not with scrolls of I've
forgotten what)

 

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jasonnorthrup@yahoo.com wrote:
>>But then I recalled the triggered amnesia trap before. The obvious
>>conclusion now would be, that Amnesia, other then Forgetfulness,
>>cancels the memory of already Id'ed items. If this is true(?), I've
>>learned something new again...
>
> Yes, this would make sense, especially if this were NH, but I've never
> noticed that happen in crawl before (at least not with scrolls of I've
> forgotten what)

In my current game I triggered 2 times an amnesia trap. Obviously they
acted like a scroll of Forgetfulness this (?) time. Now I'm really
confused about what these traps actually do. Is their functionality
probably randomized?
Btw, what do you mean with "NH"? Nethack?

Rubinstein

 

[Ru]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

In article <cpk6gb$uqn$01$1@news.t-online.com>, Rubinstein wrote:

> In my current game I triggered 2 times an amnesia trap. Obviously they
> acted like a scroll of Forgetfulness this (?) time. Now I'm really
> confused about what these traps actually do. Is their functionality
> probably randomized?

amnesia traps affect the current level map and nothing else, so far as i can
see from the source.


--
ru

 

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ru wrote:
> In article <cpk6gb$uqn$01$1@news.t-online.com>, Rubinstein wrote:
>
>> In my current game I triggered 2 times an amnesia trap. Obviously
>> they acted like a scroll of Forgetfulness this (?) time. Now I'm
>> really confused about what these traps actually do. Is their
>> functionality probably randomized?
>
> amnesia traps affect the current level map and nothing else, so far as
> i can see from the source.

But then I wonder what else could cause the occasional forgetting of
id'ed items? And I'm pretty sure that it happens, not just from my own
experience, an earlier note from Erik seems to second this (sudden loss
of knowledge of low level scrolls in the late game).

Rubinstein