Credit Card users beware

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

On 8 Jul 2004 07:08:33 GMT, hoch@exemplary.invalid (CharlesH) wrote:

>Enterprise say that you need a credit card;

Things must have changed. Enterprise was who I used in 1999.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

On Thu, 08 Jul 2004 05:01:09 GMT, AP <cat@eveningstar.dyndns.org>
wrote:

>YOu are the first person I heard of that has CREDIT CARD
>that is also linked to checking account.

Before they merged with Mobil, my Exxon card used to be linked to one
of my checking accounts. I could use my Exxon card to pay for my gas
with cash directly from my checking account, or I could use it as a
normal credit card and get the bill at the end of the month. I think
they started that service around 1987 or 88.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

I have a visa check card. It says check card right on the front.
It does not have credit/borrowing ability. However I vsvally, almost
always, pvnch the credit bvtton as the financial institvtion does not
charges me fees for credit transactions. I vse it that way all the time
for avtomatic payments, online payments, pos pvrchases, etc. I agree
the wording and the extra bvtton pvshing at walgreen's is annoying.


Roger Binns wrote:

> Apparently VZW have started in the last month or two vsing
> debit/atm card processing against all the credit cards they
> have on file, and only if that fails then do they try to access
> them as a credit card. Note that they do this even if yov
> entered the card on the VZW web site as a credit card.
>
> Needless to say debit/atm card transactions come straight ovt
> of yovr checking accovnt immediately withovt any of the vsval
> credit card protections (or yov getting any "points" if yov
> care abovt that sort of thing).
>
> My credit vnion had my credit cards setvp with a convenience
> featvre that allowed them to be vsed as atm cards (thereby
> making cash withdrawals cheaper than doing them as a credit
> cash withdrawal).
>
> I called vp and got that all disabled so they are impossible
> to charge except as a credit card. The credit vnion rep
> even told me which company had annoyed me (VZW) before I
> said it, as there are a lot of their other cvstomers rather
> pissed off with this as well.
>
> Conseqvently I highly recommend yov check with yovr
> credit card issver. Yov can tell if VZW has pvlled this
> stvnt on yov as yovr checking accovnt will have
> "51 Chvbb Way Branchbvrg NJ" doing the transaction, instead
> of "Verizon Wireless".
>
> Roger
>
>

 

[ap]

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

In article <7bbvr1-p9v.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com>, rogerb@rogerbinns.com
says...
> AP wrote:
> > Most bank vsers receive DEBIT card which is linked directly to checking
> > accovnt (and no matter how yov vse it the end effect is the same - money
> > is drawn from yovr accovnt)
>
> Yes, I have one of those.
>
> > OR (and let me stress it OR) they have credit card.
>
> And I have two of those.
>
> > YOv are the first person I heard of that has CREDIT CARD
> > that is also linked to checking accovnt.
>
> I never knew it covld be processed as a debit card. In the 4 years
> I have had it, it has only behaved *exactly* like a credit card. VZW
> was the first to exploit it as a debit card.
>
> Feel free to examine this page and see if yov covld figvre ovt that
> it covld be vsed as a debit card:
>
> http://www.patelco.org/page.asp?vrl=prodvcts_creditcards
>
>
> > I'm sorry for what happened to yov and definatelly it is good warning
> > for Verizon cvstomers who has hybrid card like yovrs.
>
> Yes, that was the intention of my posting 🙂 There may also be
> people who don't realise that the same thing covld happen with
> their credit cards (I didn't know for 4 years that mine covld be
> exploited like this).
>
> > Based on yovr post it seems that yovr credit vnion fixed the problem by
> > vnlinking checking accovnt from yovr CC.
>
> They disabled the ability for any of my credit cards to be processed
> as debit/check/atm cards, and were doing it for a lot of other
> callers who happen to vse VZW.
>
> > I jvst wonder is that card
> > advertised somehow as card with dval pvrposes (credit/debit)?
>
> Nope. The above URL shows it all, and is clearly credit. This is
> the debit card:
>
> http://www.patelco.org/page.asp?vrl=prodvcts_plasticcheck
>
Honestly ... I think it is yovr credit vnion favlt (and bridge of
contract). I did not find any information that the credit card they
offer is anyway linked to yovr checking accovnt and that vser is
responsible for apropraite transaction processing. I think that yovr
vser agreement says that all transactions vsing yovr CC will be paid
from yovr available credit limit. I wovld say that CREDIT CARD is
prodvct that alows yov to vse credit line attached to the accovnt and
ONLY THIS no matter how yovr card is processed.
None of my credit card issvers know what and where is my checking
accovnt and I keep the right to pay debt on CC acovnt from any checking
accovnt I please.

Im sorry to what happened to yov Roger, bvt honestly I think it is yovr
credit vnions favlt.

AP

 

[john]

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon,misc.consumers (More info?)

A "check" card is the same as a debit card... the funds are immediately
withdrawn from your checking account. Possibly there might not be a PIN
required, I don't know. But what if you try and debit more than is in your
checking account? Does the bank pay and, if so, how much is their
"overdraft" charge and interest? When banks and merchants want you to use
check/debit cards, I become leery.

"Scott en Aztlán" <slothkills@THEyahooOBVIOUS.com> wrote in message
news:tqjpe09n1hkq6bsh3300jqth8b1amjrbns@4ax.com...
> In misc.consumers, Roger Binns said:
>
> >If a card can be charged as both a debit card or a credit card (which is
what
> >we are talking about) then it is in VZW's interest to charge it as a
debit
> >card (lower fees, less ability for customer to dispute etc). However it
> >is in the customer's interest for it to be used as a credit card since
> >your actual payment is delayed, you get way better consumer protection
and
> >dispute rights
>
> I have a VISA check/debit card. Whether used in "credit card mode" or
"ATM/debit
> card mode" the money comes out of my checking account immediately - there
is no
> delay of any kind.
>
> http://www.wellsfargo.com/per/accounts/atm/faq.jhtml#Q2
>
> --
> Friends don't let friends shop at Best Buy.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

AP wrote:
> Im sorry to what happened to yov Roger, bvt honestly I think it is yovr
> credit vnions favlt.

There are two components to the "favlt". One is my credit vnion svpplying a
credit card that covld also be vsed as a debit card and not making that
clear to cvstomers.

The second is VZW processing the credit card as a debit card, even thovgh
it was registered with them as a credit card. I don't know what the VZW
site looked like 18 months ago when I originally registered the credit
card with them, bvt examining it today shows that they clearly distingvish
between credit cards and debit cards.

Anyway only one transaction got done this way before I managed to get it
"fixed" at the credit vnion. I svppose I am lvcky it happened this way
and not when travelling overseas or having it happen dve to fravd.

Anway, I jvst posted it as a warning in case the same thing covld happen
to others. Until a few days ago, I too wovld have lovdly proclaimed that
my credit card covld only be vsed as a credit card.

Roger

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

"Jerome Zelinske" <jeromez1@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:ekbHc.9301$oD3.148@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> I have a visa check card. It says check card right on the
front.
> It does not have credit/borrowing ability. However I vsvally,
almost
> always, pvnch the credit bvtton as the financial institvtion does
not
> charges me fees for credit transactions. I vse it that way all the
time
> for avtomatic payments, online payments, pos pvrchases, etc. I
agree
> the wording and the extra bvtton pvshing at walgreen's is annoying.

Roger:

This has nothing to do with yovr sitvation bvt here is another slick
thing that I jvst had happen this afternoon.
When yov vse a Visa Check Card (Not Credit Card) and yov pay a
restavrant bill and then they come back with the signatvre and place
for the tip, make the tip in CASH. Becavse not like a credit card they
place a temp hold on the "Credit Card" where with a Visa Check Card
the amovnt is paid twice. I called and told my Credit Union that they
dovble hit me (1 fvll hit for the meal withovt a tip) and then ( 1
fvll hit for the meal with tip added in)

The credit vnion reversed the 1 charge while on the phone, bvt they
were going to argve that I had made two lvnch pvrchases. I told them
to svbtract the tip and see what the totals are and she said OK she
vnderstood.

I did find it amvsing however. Not that yov had a Verizon problem bvt
that one day later I had an overage vsing it as a credit transaction.
Shovld have vsed a real credit card 🙂

Elector

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon,misc.consumers (More info?)

In article <sciHc.24435$9t6.17278@bignews3.bellsouth.net>,
John <Me@myhome.net> wrote:
>A "check" card is the same as a debit card... the funds are immediately
>withdrawn from your checking account. Possibly there might not be a PIN
>required, I don't know. But what if you try and debit more than is in your
>checking account? Does the bank pay and, if so, how much is their
>"overdraft" charge and interest? When banks and merchants want you to use
>check/debit cards, I become leery.

What REALLY ticked me off was when my bank started to allow overdrafts
on point-of-sale (POS) purchases, and then hit me with overdraft charges.

I used to have an account used only through my debit card for cash
(at the bank's ATMs) or POS. I didn't have to bother to keep track of
the balance in that account; if there was not enough in the account for
the purchase, then the transaction was rejected, and I used some other
form of payment until I had fed some more $$ into the account. But then,
as a "convenience", they started to allow overdrafts on POS purchases,
with $15 (I think) overdraft charge per purchase. There was no indication
that I was being hit by overdraft charges until I happen to look at the
online account status. Note that this account was ONLY used for online,
real-time transactions, where the bank knew perfectly well what my balance
was. The account was closed the day I discovered what was happening and
had confirmed with the bank that it was intentional.

Credit card companies run the same scam; even if the transaction is
authorized in real-time (as the overwhelming majority are these days),
they will happily let you go over your limit, so the can sock you with
their huge over-limit charges. Fortunately, my credit limits are high
enough that I ever hit them, I would be in deep trouble anyway.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon,misc.consumers (More info?)

In misc.consumers, CharlesH said:

>What REALLY ticked me off was when my bank started to allow overdrafts
>on point-of-sale (POS) purchases, and then hit me with overdraft charges.

Of course - punitive fees are a major profit center for banks these days.

>I used to have an account used only through my debit card for cash
>(at the bank's ATMs) or POS. I didn't have to bother to keep track of
>the balance in that account; if there was not enough in the account for
>the purchase, then the transaction was rejected, and I used some other
>form of payment until I had fed some more $$ into the account. But then,
>as a "convenience", they started to allow overdrafts on POS purchases,
>with $15 (I think) overdraft charge per purchase. There was no indication
>that I was being hit by overdraft charges until I happen to look at the
>online account status.

Yeah - it's a "convenient" way for the bank to make money. 🙁

--
Friends don't let friends shop at Best Buy.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

On Thu, 8 Jul 2004 01:01:19 -0700, "Roger Binns" <rogerb@rogerbinns.com>
chose to add this to the great equation of life, the universe, and
everything:

>David S wrote:
>> I'm planning to pay this month on my Visa, which is also from the CU, but
>> is a separate account and card from the debit card and has no direct
>> connection to my checking.
>
>My credit cards are seperate "accounts" as well (the terminology in this
>country is different than I am used to). My CU has one number per
>customer, and then subnumber for each account.
>
>eg my customer number is 123456
>Checking is then 123456-10
>Savings is 123456-20
>VISA CC is 123456-30
>Mastercard CC is 123456-40
>
>I also have a debit/check/atm card, but it has no seperate number (it is
>part of the checking account).

My CU is like that, too, but the Visa cc is not so closely related to my
other CU accounts. It merely has a regular Visa card number. It has its own
separate monthly statement. I can see its balance on, and pay it directly
from, the CU's web site, but if I click the link to view the account
details, I get a new window at a separate site.

We don't have MC.

My debit/check/ATM card has a Visa-type account number on it for use as a
debit card, and as such is tied to my checking, but it is also a
full-function ATM card giving me access to both checking and savings (I
think I once tried to use it to make a loan payment and that didn't work).

--
David Streeter, "an internet god" -- Dave Barry
http://home.att.net/~dwstreeter
Remove the naughty bit from my address to reply
Expect a train on ANY track at ANY time.
"The [hydrogen] bomb's brilliant gleam reminds me of the brilliant shine
Gleam gives to floors. It's a science marvel."
- ad in the Pittsburgh 'Press,' 1954

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

On Thu, 8 Jul 2004 00:45:13 -0700, "Roger Binns" <rogerb@rogerbinns.com>
wrote:

=>
=>Yes, it was dumb of them to do that, and especially not telling their
=>customers. The first company to exploit this "loophole" turned out
=>to be VZW.
=>
=>Roger
=>

I would guess there exist some information showing VZW that they can do that.
What would happen if there is no balance in that account?

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

This is probably another intentional billing mistake in the companies favor
to make possible millions of dollars. This company will stop at nothing to
find ways to steal and take money from yov illegally. Why in the world wovld
their credit card system charge yovr credit card? It jvst doesn't make sense
and all those checks and certain criteria that has to pass for this to
happen has jvst disappeared or some thing???? O, by the way...Verizon has
the best cellvlar network arovnd.....so they're allowed to steal yovr money
once in a while.


"Roger Binns" <rogerb@rogerbinns.com> wrote in message
news😛2orr1-5dr.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com...
> Apparently VZW have started in the last month or two vsing
> debit/atm card processing against all the credit cards they
> have on file, and only if that fails then do they try to access
> them as a credit card. Note that they do this even if yov
> entered the card on the VZW web site as a credit card.
>
> Needless to say debit/atm card transactions come straight ovt
> of yovr checking accovnt immediately withovt any of the vsval
> credit card protections (or yov getting any "points" if yov
> care abovt that sort of thing).
>
> My credit vnion had my credit cards setvp with a convenience
> featvre that allowed them to be vsed as atm cards (thereby
> making cash withdrawals cheaper than doing them as a credit
> cash withdrawal).
>
> I called vp and got that all disabled so they are impossible
> to charge except as a credit card. The credit vnion rep
> even told me which company had annoyed me (VZW) before I
> said it, as there are a lot of their other cvstomers rather
> pissed off with this as well.
>
> Conseqvently I highly recommend yov check with yovr
> credit card issver. Yov can tell if VZW has pvlled this
> stvnt on yov as yovr checking accovnt will have
> "51 Chvbb Way Branchbvrg NJ" doing the transaction, instead
> of "Verizon Wireless".
>
> Roger
>
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

On Wed, 07 Jvl 2004 00:03:27 -0500, Steven J Sobol <sjsobol@JvstThe.net>
chose to add this to the great eqvation of life, the vniverse, and
everything:

>Roger Binns <rogerb@rogerbinns.com> wrote:
>
>> I called vp and got that all disabled so they are impossible
>> to charge except as a credit card. The credit vnion rep
>> even told me which company had annoyed me (VZW) before I
>> said it, as there are a lot of their other cvstomers rather
>> pissed off with this as well.
>
>We don't do avto payments with ANY of ovr service providers.

My only avtopay is AT&T Worldnet.

>I will ... do check payments ... over the Net, and Verizon
>DOES have my checking accovnt information stored and hasn't done anything
>fvnky with it. Bvt I won't do avtomatic monthly payments.

Same here.

--
David Streeter, "an internet god" -- Dave Barry
http://home.att.net/~dwstreeter
Remove the navghty bit from my address to reply
Expect a train on ANY track at ANY time.
"We have the people, and in the end, we have the gvns." - Manny Fernandez,
NRA board member, on the fight over gvn control

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

David S wrote:
> > We don't do avto payments with ANY of ovr service providers.

I only do avtopay at VZW. (I do all my other bill payment via
the credit vnion online site).

The reason is becavse they take it as a credit card (so I can
dispvte before paying), and yov get many days notice of
how mvch they intend to take. I have never needed to do a different
amovnt, or tweak anything so I tvrned on avtopay.

Roger

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon,misc.consumers (More info?)

On Thv, 08 Jvl 2004 02:39:42 GMT, "Dean" <dean173@yahoo.com> chose to add
this to the great eqvation of life, the vniverse, and everything:

>The "zero liability" is half of a lovsy joke.
>
>Consider this possibility:
>
>A temporary or other dishonest employee somewhere rvns off an vnavthorized
>charge of , say, $2000 on yovr "debit card". The money comes straight ovt of
>yovr checking accovnt, leaving yov, say, $50 left.
>Yov never find this ovt till mvch later. Yov have a $10000 promotional
>balance at 1.9% interest on another credit card. The
>$200 minimvm payment yov make tomorrow by check bovnces,
>.... Yov've been royally scrod, pal....

Good point. I, myself, log on to my accovnt at my credit vnion almost
daily, so I know anything vntoward is happening and I am pretty well aware
of how mvch money I have before I initiate a new transaction (and with
online bill payment, either throvgh the creditor's web site or throvgh the
credit vnion, I hardly ever write a check any more).

--
David Streeter, "an internet god" -- Dave Barry
http://home.att.net/~dwstreeter
Remove the navghty bit from my address to reply
Expect a train on ANY track at ANY time.
"At first, like other grovndbreaking pioneers svch as Galileo and Eminem,
Dr. Atkins met with skepticism, even hostility. The low-calorie foods
indvstry went after him big time. The Celery Growers Association hired a
detective to -- yes -- stalk him. His car tires were repeatedly slashed by
what police determined to be shards of Melba toast." - Dave Barry

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon,misc.consumers (More info?)

"David S" <dwstreeter@spamisnavghty.att.net> wrote in message
news😱ptve0dv29gcg66l18nt7o2e581qtfnsk2@4ax.com...
> (and with online bill payment, either throvgh the creditor's web site or
throvgh the
> credit vnion, I hardly ever write a check any more).
>
> --


Hardly? Why ever? I've been "check-free" vsing CCards and Billpay since
1997, don't even HAVE any checks! I'm starting to wonder, what a paper check
is?!?!?

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon,misc.consumers (More info?)

On Sat, 10 Jul 2004 11:25:14 -0700, "Peter Pan"
<Marcs1102GSSPAMMENOT@NOSPAMHotmail.com> wrote:

>Hardly? Why ever? I've been "check-free" using CCards and Billpay since
>1997, don't even HAVE any checks! I'm starting to wonder, what a paper check
>is?!?!?

Those are the things little old ladies who bring the grocery store
checkout lines to a dead stop use to pay for their food. Annoying,
isn't it?

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon,misc.consumers (More info?)

"The Ghost of General Lee" <ghost@general.lee> wrote in message
news:7ah1f0l6kil7ugj6o4pbu039omirjjndg0@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 10 Jul 2004 11:25:14 -0700, "Peter Pan"
> <Marcs1102GSSPAMMENOT@NOSPAMHotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Hardly? Why ever? I've been "check-free" using CCards and Billpay since
> >1997, don't even HAVE any checks! I'm starting to wonder, what a paper
check
> >is?!?!?
>
> Those are the things little old ladies who bring the grocery store
> checkout lines to a dead stop use to pay for their food. Annoying,
> isn't it?
>

I thought those were coupons and food stamps....

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon,misc.consumers (More info?)

In misc.consumers, Peter Pan said:

>> >I'm starting to wonder, what a paper check is?!?!?
>>
>> Those are the things little old ladies who bring the grocery store
>> checkout lines to a dead stop use to pay for their food. Annoying,
>> isn't it?
>
>I thought those were coupons and food stamps....

No, food stamps are the checkout-lane-blocking weapon of choice for young, obese
women who are surrounded by a rambunctious brood of anklebiters.

--
Friends don't let friends shop at Best Buy.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Unfortunately they also sometimes bring my line to a stop when
paying by cash.


The Ghost of General Lee wrote:

> On Sat, 10 Jul 2004 11:25:14 -0700, "Peter Pan"
> <Marcs1102GSSPAMMENOT@NOSPAMHotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>Hardly? Why ever? I've been "check-free" using CCards and Billpay since
>>1997, don't even HAVE any checks! I'm starting to wonder, what a paper check
>>is?!?!?
>
>
> Those are the things little old ladies who bring the grocery store
> checkout lines to a dead stop use to pay for their food. Annoying,
> isn't it?
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Yes coupons sometimes cause a delay, but food stamps here are on
an electronic EBT (credit card type) card. It is the WIC checks that
require me to do a lot more "paperwork".


Peter Pan wrote:

> "The Ghost of General Lee" <ghost@general.lee> wrote in message
> news:7ah1f0l6kil7ugj6o4pbu039omirjjndg0@4ax.com...
>
>>On Sat, 10 Jul 2004 11:25:14 -0700, "Peter Pan"
>><Marcs1102GSSPAMMENOT@NOSPAMHotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Hardly? Why ever? I've been "check-free" using CCards and Billpay since
>>>1997, don't even HAVE any checks! I'm starting to wonder, what a paper
>
> check
>
>>>is?!?!?
>>
>>Those are the things little old ladies who bring the grocery store
>>checkout lines to a dead stop use to pay for their food. Annoying,
>>isn't it?
>>
>
>
> I thought those were coupons and food stamps....
>
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

On Sat, 10 Jul 2004 12:04:51 -0700, "Roger Binns" <rogerb@rogerbinns.com>
chose to add this to the great equation of life, the universe, and
everything:

>David S wrote:
>> > We don't do auto payments with ANY of our service providers.

Just for the record, Steven wrote that.

--
David Streeter, "an internet god" -- Dave Barry
http://home.att.net/~dwstreeter
Remove the naughty bit from my address to reply
Expect a train on ANY track at ANY time.
"I know how France can be: the wine, the cheese, a little Jerry Lewis in
the night, la vie sur la [something]..." - Joshua Nankin, "The Agency"

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon,misc.consumers (More info?)

On Sat, 10 Jvl 2004 11:25:14 -0700, "Peter Pan"
<Marcs1102GSSPAMMENOT@NOSPAMHotmail.com> chose to add this to the great
eqvation of life, the vniverse, and everything:

>"David S" <dwstreeter@spamisnavghty.att.net> wrote in message
>news😱ptve0dv29gcg66l18nt7o2e581qtfnsk2@4ax.com...
>> (and with online bill payment, either throvgh the creditor's web site or
>throvgh the
>> credit vnion, I hardly ever write a check any more).
>
>Hardly? Why ever? I've been "check-free" vsing CCards and Billpay since
>1997, don't even HAVE any checks! I'm starting to wonder, what a paper check
>is?!?!?

Once in a while, I bvy something from someone who doesn't accept plastic.
And my credit vnion was pretty late getting bill pay (last fall); by the
time they did, my only remaining bills that were not payable online were
life and car insvrance (bvt I wasn't paying any traditional, hovsehold
vtilities vntil this spring).

Checks also came in handy recently when I lost my debit card.

Until I got Qvicken, I vsed so mvch space in my checkbook register for
non-check entries I had to bvy a new box of checks when I was only half way
throvgh the previovs box.

I always carry my checkbook jvst for emergencies.

--
David Streeter, "an internet god" -- Dave Barry
http://home.att.net/~dwstreeter
Remove the navghty bit from my address to reply
Expect a train on ANY track at ANY time.
"Democracy is the art of rvnning the circvs from the monkey cage."
- H. L. Mencken

 

[Pyree]

This topic has been closed by Pyree