Question Custom water block on my GPU, or Upgrade with a new GPU?

[spencer.cleaves2]

Here is my current build:
CPU: Ryzen 7 2700 (OC'd to 4.0GHz)
GPU: MSI RX Vega 64 Air boost (OC'd to 1657Mhz)
MoBo: ASUS Prime X-470 Pro
CPU Cooler: Cryorig H5 Ultimate
RAM:2x8GB G.Skill Tridentz DDR4 3200MHz
PSU: 850W
Storage: 1TB SSD (SATA), 2TB Seagate HDD

So I'm looking for some other peoples input on what I should do for an upgrade. I'm either thinking of putting a custom water-block on my OC'd Vega 64 so I can overclock it to 1700+MHz, or just buy a completely new card. If I buy a new card, I'm going to get the new Ryzen VII because it basically covers all the areas I need as far as performance plus it has 16 juicy GB of VRAM. Obviously the water-block would be the cheaper option, it would also be a little bit more risky but I think i should be able to get some high clock speeds with the water block, and it would also be kinda fun to take apart my GPU.

I'm basically just looking to start a discussion and get some other peoples inputs, or any other ideas you might have. I'm also not in any rush for the upgrade, my PC still runs everything pretty easily for what I need but I always like starting new projects lol

 

[WildCard999]

If you don't own Division 2 (Gold Edition) or World War Z then getting the 50th Anniversary Bundle (same price as the GPU itself) is a really tempting offer.

 

[spencer.cleaves2]

I do have Word War Z but it is still very tempting for that Red Radeon VII, plus the merch. It is a pretty solid deal, I'm actually pretty content with the price they put on the Radeon VII, you get a good balance of performance. Thanks for the reply, I didn't know there was a bundle for it, I thought it was just for the chip-sets. Definitely keeping this in mind.

 

[WildCard999]

I do have Word War Z but it is still very tempting for that Red Radeon VII, plus the merch. It is a pretty solid deal, I'm actually pretty content with the price they put on the Radeon VII, you get a good balance of performance. Thanks for the reply, I didn't know there was a bundle for it, I thought it was just for the chip-sets. Definitely keeping this in mind.

Just wondering, for your Vega 64 were you going to do a custom loop or just use a bracket and add a AIO?

 

[spencer.cleaves2]

Just wondering, for your Vega 64 were you going to do a custom loop or just use a bracket and add a AIO?

I wanted to go all out and get a custom EK loop for it. I've been kind of on the fence about it for a while but I figured it would be a pretty fun project and it would definitely give me some higher clock speeds.

 

[WildCard999]

I wanted to go all out and get a custom EK loop for it. I've been kind of on the fence about it for a while but I figured it would be a pretty fun project and it would definitely give me some higher clock speeds.

That actually could be a fun project, I'm new to custom loops and have been tempted do one myself but it would be a waste on my current system (R5 2600/RX 580) especially when I could use the extra cash to upgrade the memory or drop a Intel 660P 1 or 2TB M.2 SSD into it as I currently only have a 500gb SSD.

 

[spencer.cleaves2]

Yea I haven't done any Custom loops either because I wasn't confident enough to tear apart my GPU, but I think I have the knowledge now to do it. I've actually heard people getting some pretty crazy clocks on water-blocked 580s. Those 580s are great cards for the price. I'm really liking where AMD is taking things as far as hardware. Their drivers over the last few months have been pretty solid too. Im going to price the water block kit out and see how much it will cost. I'm thinking of going all out with the stiff tubing that you mold with a heat gun.

 

[spencer.cleaves2]

This isn't related to the discussion that much but it is a pretty interesting quick article. AMD is making moves. If Nvidia doesn't start lowering their prices, and if Intel doesn't lower their prices and fix their Hyper Threading issue (also huge security issue), then I think AMD is going to have a really good year. They need to start thinking more about the consumers, and a lot of consumers are getting tired of it.

Article: https://seekingalpha.com/article/4264896-amd-may-eating-nvidias-lunch

 

[1LiquidPC]

You may be able to get some higher clocks from watercooled GPUs with OCing, but an added benefit, if loop done correctly, is higher sustained clocks from lower overall temps. Be aware it is an expensive hobby when it comes to custom loop watercooling.

 

[WildCard999]

I'm pumped to see 3rd Gen Ryzen but will probably wait for 4th gen to upgrade my 2600. I think the Navi GPU's will be good for the price but I don't know if they'll be able to compete with the RTX series, maybe.

Starting with hard tubing will be interesting.

 

[geofelt]

Seems silly to me to buy an expensive cooler on speculation that you can OC from 1657 to 1700.

If you need a more competent graphics card, buy a stronger card.

 

[spencer.cleaves2]

Seems silly to me to buy an expensive cooler on speculation that you can OC from 1657 to 1700.

If you need a more competent graphics card, buy a stronger card.

Yea it is a bit pricey, and could cause some catastrophic damage to my PC if I screw up, but I the card I have came OC'd out of the box because it was a custom card. I under-volted it because it was throttling out of the box, but once I undervolted it and got it stable, I was still able to get really high clocks out of the Vega 64. I've seen other people water cool Vega 64s and get the overclock over 1700MHz. I guess for me, it would be to see how lucky I got with the silicon lottery and see how high I can clock my GPU with a water block. The water block would also be able to sustain higher clocks for a longer period because the difference in heat dissipation compared to air. The other reason I was considering a water block was because if you know the model of GPU I'm using, it is a blower card, which has been actually pretty good for my Case temperatures because most of the GPU heat is shot out of the back, but with blower cards comes loud fan curves. So it would also help quiet done that power hungry GPU, because with the OC I have on it needs a pretty gross fan curve (not a huge deal while playing with headphones).

 

[1LiquidPC]

It's more what you are looking to achieve overall. Performance wise, I'm doubtful the boost in FPS from gain in frequency headroom would be more than a few FPS best case. You could get better averages and 1% lows depending on sustained clock. I'm not sure how AMDs boost works compared to Nvidia though. It could greatly lower noise levels as well. The thing is, if you start a custom loop from scratch, by the time you factor in all component costs, the Radeon VII is likely cheaper.

 

[spencer.cleaves2]

I'm pumped to see 3rd Gen Ryzen but will probably wait for 4th gen to upgrade my 2600. I think the Navi GPU's will be good for the price but I don't know if they'll be able to compete with the RTX series, maybe.

Starting with hard tubing will be interesting.

Yea I think I should be okay, if I do it, I'll be doing it at my parents house in my dad's garage. He is a robotics engineer and a inventor so I'll use him as a resource if I need a hand molding the plastic tubes or any other things that might need a second set of eyes. He also has a lot of tools that I don't have which will be a big help.

I'm also very excited to see the new CPU's coming out from AMD. It will be interesting to see what this year brings as far as hardware. The Navi will be interesting, but at the end of the day if you want to build the best of the best PC, Nvidia will still be the top dog. But just because they are the top dog for performance, doesn't mean they are the top dog for the consumers. I like both companies but Nvidia needs to lower the card prices, and stop releasing these budget cards like the 1660 because they have been getting beat by 580s at cheaper prices.

 

[spencer.cleaves2]

It's more what you are looking to achieve overall. Performance wise, I'm doubtful the boost in FPS from gain in frequency headroom would be more than a few FPS best case. You could get better averages and 1% lows depending on sustained clock. I'm not sure how AMDs boost works compared to Nvidia though. It could greatly lower noise levels as well. The thing is, if you start a custom loop from scratch, by the time you factor in all component costs, the Radeon VII is likely cheaper.

I priced it out, it would be about 620$CND to waterblock my GPU so it would be a about 300$ cheaper, but i see what your saying with not seeing drastic changes in performance with the increased clock speeds. Maybe I'll custom cool my GPU so I can push it to 4.3Ghz on the cores because it would be around 430$ to do that, then just save up some money and get the Radeon VII at a later date.At the end of the day, I do want to make a custom loop because it would be so much fun and satisfying to do, but I also really want to have that 16GB VRAM too. Thanks for the input

 

[1LiquidPC]

I see some of your points. Thanks for added info. Regarding VRAM, what are you planning to utilize it with? Gaming itself will be limited by the VII's GPU before using that VRAM capacity. This is why the card is more a hybrid for semi-professional who also game. Applications outside of gaming realm is where the 16GB comes into play.

 

[spencer.cleaves2]

I see some of your points. Thanks for added info. Regarding VRAM, what are you planning to utilize it with? Gaming itself will be limited by the VII's GPU before using that VRAM capacity. This is why the card is more a hybrid for semi-professional who also game. Applications outside of gaming realm is where the 16GB comes into play.

Yea I'm trying to get my build closer to a hybrid PC because I do do some streaming, video rendering and light editing but I also game a lot so I'm trying to find that sweet spot. That's why I want the 16GB of VRAM. The Radeon VII is actually pretty comparable in games to the Vega 64 (obviously the VII has higher stock clocks and is a bit better for gaming but not much). I'm just throwing some ideas around and seeing what some of you guys think. I'm trying to make a somewhat high-end "Jack of all Trades" PC

 

[1LiquidPC]

OK. Some valid points there for the VII, at least if you decide that route at some point. Regarding your original question though, I don't think I would go full custom on GPU only given the costs and labor involved, even for Vega 64. If you are truly hyped about it, you always can just because you like the idea. Nothing wrong with that I figure if you decide to go all out custom, might as well do CPU and GPU together in my opinion. There are tons of options though, you technically watercool the GPU now and design the layout in such a way that CPU could be added later. With your usage plans and mentioned looking for upgrades, you could look at the 16C/32T rumored Ryzen 3000 series CPU said to launch in a few months.

 

[WildCard999]

Yea I think I should be okay, if I do it, I'll be doing it at my parents house in my dad's garage. He is a robotics engineer and a inventor so I'll use him as a resource if I need a hand molding the plastic tubes or any other things that might need a second set of eyes. He also has a lot of tools that I don't have which will be a big help.

I'm also very excited to see the new CPU's coming out from AMD. It will be interesting to see what this year brings as far as hardware. The Navi will be interesting, but at the end of the day if you want to build the best of the best PC, Nvidia will still be the top dog. But just because they are the top dog for performance, doesn't mean they are the top dog for the consumers. I like both companies but Nvidia needs to lower the card prices, and stop releasing these budget cards like the 1660 because they have been getting beat by 580s at cheaper prices.

I think the 1660 (& Ti variant) are decent GPU's for the price. If I didn't get my 580 for $170 then my next choice would of been the 1660 but at the time it wasn't even released. Nvidia's mid range cards are decent it's the lower end cards such as the 1050/1050 ti & 1650 which are way overpriced and get beat out by the RX 570.

While I think the watercooling project could be quite fun if you do have the space have you considered VR? I had the Oculus for awhile and have to say modded Skyrim VR is freaking awesome!

 

[spencer.cleaves2]

I think the 1660 (& Ti variant) are decent GPU's for the price. If I didn't get my 580 for $170 then my next choice would of been the 1660 but at the time it wasn't even released. Nvidia's mid range cards are decent it's the lower end cards such as the 1050/1050 ti & 1650 which are way overpriced and get beat out by the RX 570.

While I think the watercooling project could be quite fun if you do have the space have you considered VR? I had the Oculus for awhile and have to say modded Skyrim VR is freaking awesome!

I definitely have the room for VR but it isn't something I have really thought about yet. I will probably invest in VR eventually but I just want to wait a bit. Most of my gaming time is spent playing FPS games like CS, PUBG, Apex Legends, ect. VR is more of a novelty to me rn. I'm going to wait until VR has been optimized better and all the hardware and software bugs are completely ironed out.

 

[spencer.cleaves2]

OK. Some valid points there for the VII, at least if you decide that route at some point. Regarding your original question though, I don't think I would go full custom on GPU only given the costs and labor involved, even for Vega 64. If you are truly hyped about it, you always can just because you like the idea. Nothing wrong with that I figure if you decide to go all out custom, might as well do CPU and GPU together in my opinion. There are tons of options though, you technically watercool the GPU now and design the layout in such a way that CPU could be added later. With your usage plans and mentioned looking for upgrades, you could look at the 16C/32T rumored Ryzen 3000 series CPU said to launch in a few months.

16C/32T is going to be awesome if the put a good price tag on them. I'm pumped for the release of those chips. As far as the custom liquid cooling loop, if i do make one, I am going to plan ahead and make sure I can add my CPU to the loop if I want too. I have to keep my options open lol I already drew up some blueprints for a couple different ways I could configure the tubes to implement the CPU. I might do an Autocad diagram if I get bored

 

[1LiquidPC]

Good idea. Better to plan out all in advance as much as possible(tubing, fittings, layout, ect.) if you decide to proceed. Saves costs on parts and headaches.

 

[spencer.cleaves2]

Good idea. Better to plan out all in advance as much as possible(tubing, fittings, layout, ect.) if you decide to proceed. Saves costs on parts and headaches.

From the looks of your name and picture for your profile, you are the person I should be talking to for custom loops. I might be getting some tips from you when I actually bite the bullet and do it. Thanks again for the input.

 

[cryoburner]

I think the 1660 (& Ti variant) are decent GPU's for the price.

I kind of agree, though I must say I did find them be a pretty mediocre upgrade over the previous generation. The 1660 only performs about 20% faster than a 1060 6GB on average, which is much less of a performance increase than I would expect over what is now an almost 3 year old card. It's not a bad card compared to what else is out there now, but it's not exactly impressive by any means, and only brings the bare minimum to the table in terms of performance gains at a given price level. Hopefully Navi will do better on that front.

The Radeon VII is actually pretty comparable in games to the Vega 64 (obviously the VII has higher stock clocks and is a bit better for gaming but not much).

It's around 20% faster from what I've seen, which isn't exactly a huge improvement, but that is a notably larger performance increase than one would get from watercooling a Vega 64. Moving from 1657 to 1700Mhz would be a less-than 3% increase in clock rates, after all. Perhaps it could maintain those boost clocks better, but it's still not going to meet the VII's level of performance.

Also, while I don't expect to see AMD release a card that outperforms the Radeon VII until at least early next year, I suspect that this summer's Navi lineup may include a card with gaming performance similar to or better than a Vega 64, probably at a notably lower price point, and with notably lower power and cooling demands. It might be worth seeing what they have to announced about Navi in the coming weeks.

 

[1LiquidPC]

Glad to help. If you decide to try the custom loop path, feel free to PM on here. I'll try and offer up some ideas if I can.