News Cyan's New Steampunk Game Needs 32GB RAM for Max Graphics and VR

[Admin]

A new steampunk puzzle game was recently announced that features an unusually high recommended system requirement of 32GB of memory.

Cyan's New Steampunk Game Needs 32GB RAM for Max Graphics and VR : Read more

 

[Giroro]

This reminds me of the lecture on code optimization from my CS102 course, which was verbatim:
"If your code runs poorly, buy a bigger computer. RAM is cheap."
That was the same professor who's entire explanation of pointers is that they "points at things". This was confusing as my previous CS101 professor had taught us that a memory address is "don't know; don't care" (that was his answer to most questions).

You can't expect somebody with Bachelor's Degree in Computer Science to know how to optimize code, or even to know how a computer works. If you want that, you need to hire either an electronics engineer, or somebody who is self-taught.

 

[Makaveli]

This reminds me of the lecture on code optimization from my CS102 course, which was verbatim:
"If your code runs poorly, buy a bigger computer. RAM is cheap."
That was the same professor who's entire explanation of pointers is that they "points at things". This was confusing as my previous CS101 professor had taught us that a memory address is "don't know; don't care" (that was his answer to most questions).

You can't expect somebody with Bachelor's Degree in Computer Science to know how to optimize code, or even to know how a computer works. If you want that, you need to hire either an electronics engineer, or somebody who is self-taught.

lol i like your prof.

32GB of DDR4 memory is like $100 USD.

 

[emike09]

RAM is so cheap these days, everybody should be consider running 32GB if they actually want to use computers for doing modern computer things that aren't web browsing or Office apps. That said, I agree with the above comments on optimizing code, it's easier for developers to harness massive compute resources and not optimize their code. I continually was maxing out my 32GB with various applications and multi-tasking, and finally made the jump to 64GB. I rarely utilize all 64GB now, usually around 40-45GB, but I'm future-proof for the next 4-5 years now RAM-wise.

If you want a gorgeous high-res and smooth VR experience like I do, you probably don't mind spending extra on good hardware.

 

[10tacle]

RAM is so cheap these days, everybody should be consider running 32GB if they actually want to use computers for doing modern computer things that aren't web browsing or Office apps.

Exactly! I've been building PCs since the late 1990s and from my chair, about every 4 years the typical RAM requirements for a well balanced system (gaming and productivity) doubles. People whining about RAM requirements for the latest game is of course nothing new - not anymore than whining about drive space that was recently posted about here for a game.

 

[digitalgriffin]

This reminds me of the lecture on code optimization from my CS102 course, which was verbatim:
"If your code runs poorly, buy a bigger computer. RAM is cheap."
That was the same professor who's entire explanation of pointers is that they "points at things". This was confusing as my previous CS101 professor had taught us that a memory address is "don't know; don't care" (that was his answer to most questions).

You can't expect somebody with Bachelor's Degree in Computer Science to know how to optimize code, or even to know how a computer works. If you want that, you need to hire either an electronics engineer, or somebody who is self-taught.

You're joking right? Have things got that bad in the cs world?

In cs330 we were hard wiring and or xor nor not chips to make a machine that sorted punch cards. Punch cards were 99% dead but it was to make sure we understand how the CPU worked internally. (1995) We had to hard wire up a plate stack too, creating sram circuits for tournament sorts.

 

[newtechldtech]

This reminds me of the lecture on code optimization from my CS102 course, which was verbatim:
"If your code runs poorly, buy a bigger computer. RAM is cheap."
That was the same professor who's entire explanation of pointers is that they "points at things". This was confusing as my previous CS101 professor had taught us that a memory address is "don't know; don't care" (that was his answer to most questions).

You can't expect somebody with Bachelor's Degree in Computer Science to know how to optimize code, or even to know how a computer works. If you want that, you need to hire either an electronics engineer, or somebody who is self-taught.

Which university exactly ? try graduating from MIT or Stanford or Berkeley then talk.

 

[bit_user]

This reminds me of the lecture on code optimization from my CS102 course, which was verbatim:
"If your code runs poorly, buy a bigger computer. RAM is cheap."
That was the same professor who's entire explanation of pointers is that they "points at things". This was confusing as my previous CS101 professor had taught us that a memory address is "don't know; don't care" (that was his answer to most questions).

Sounds like a school not known for its Computer Science program.

You can't expect somebody with Bachelor's Degree in Computer Science to know how to optimize code, or even to know how a computer works.

I'd wager the majority do.

If you want that, you need to hire either an electronics engineer,

I've met more than one EE who wrote horrible code, due to an almost complete lack of appreciation for abstraction.

 

[bit_user]

RAM is so cheap these days, everybody should be consider running 32GB if they actually want to use computers for doing modern computer things that aren't web browsing or Office apps.

Web browsing is probably the thing most people do (other than games) that uses the most RAM. All the ad networks and scripting on modern websites chews up gobs of memory. Fortunately, browsers have gotten pretty good at garbage collecting inactive tabs, but still... web browsing is no longer the sort of cheap activity it used to be.

 

[emike09]

web browsing is no longer the sort of cheap activity it used to be.

True, and a lot of complex apps are running in-browser these days. Simple example - Google abandoned Google Earth, but they continue to develop it on earth.google.com.

 

[PBme]

The word "requirement" seems to be being misused. Recommendation for best visual fidelity settings maybe. Though that brief demo they video certainly doesn't reveal any reason why as that doesn't show anything impressive or demanding looking by today' AAA game standards.

 

[edzieba]

Short version: 'rather than letting those with large system RAM capacities sit idle whilst we read from a SSD (or worse, HDD) we opportunistically load data into RAM so it's ready to go in advance'.

 

[sam buddy]

Which university exactly ? try graduating from MIT or Stanford or Berkeley then talk.

Those are top notch institutions, especially in scientific disciplines, but you don't really have to graduate from a top uni to learn how to optimize code, even today.
Probably a very lazy or frustrated professor, or, as bit_user put it, "sounds like a school not known for its Computer Science program." His students are there to learn programming, not try to play a badly ported PS5 game on PC. And so the vicious circle of poorly optimized ports continues...

Web browsing is probably the thing most people do (other than games) that uses the most RAM. All the ad networks and scripting on modern websites chews up gobs of memory. Fortunately, browsers have gotten pretty good at garbage collecting inactive tabs, but still... web browsing is no longer the sort of cheap activity it used to be.

Sad but true.

The word "requirement" seems to be being misused. Recommendation for best visual fidelity settings maybe. Thought that brief demo they video certainly doesn't reveal any reason why as that doesn't show anything impressive or demanding looking by today' AAA game standards.

As the article points out, there needs to be some fragmentation to system requirements. I like what CD Project Red did with Cyberpunk 2077 (link), but it's not reflected on Steam, or even GOG.
The title, though, is a bit misleading, as the author later in the article states that "According to a dev response by PCGamer, the developers wanted to ensure Firmamenent [sic] runs as smoothly as possible, especially in VR. As a result, they decided to increase the memory requirements to 32GB so users better understand what the game requires to achieve the game's maximum possible graphics fidelity." and that "The devs go on to say that the game will run perfectly fine on 16GB of memory and even supports M1 Macbook Airs with just 8GB of RAM.
So, the game does not need neither requires. Recommendation, as you said, would be more appropriate in this context.

 

[Deleted member 14196]

Writing code has nothing to do with going to a University. It is an art form not a science. You do have to understand the electronics to a certain point in order to optimize your code properly but you don’t have to have a degree to do so.

I’ve known people with English majors who are excellent programmers, and I’ve known people with CIS degrees who can’t code their way out of a wet paper sack. Don’t get hung up on University names. Education is like making soup. You only get out of it what you put into it and I don’t care where you go

you could go to the best University, and if you don’t put forth the effort, your education won’t be worth spit in other words

 

[Dr3ams]

On my rig Hogwart's Legacy uses around 18GBs of RAM. I upgraded from 16GB to 32GB about three months ago, and now I'm thinking of upgrading again to 64GB. I think this is going to be the future of gaming. RAM is cheap, might as well take advantage of it now before the prices go back up.

 

[Colif]

It doesn't need 32gb, it is recommended you have it but the minimum requirements are 16gb - link
I won't be playing it as it needs an 8core CPU and I only have 6 (I assume hyperthreading doesn't count) at the moment.
It also just looks like a new version of Myst, and that is hardly new.

 

[bit_user]

Writing code has nothing to do with going to a University. It is an art form not a science.

Depends on what you mean by "code". If it's just slapping web front-ends atop legacy mainframe or server programs, that's easy enough to train someone to do. More involved tasks benefit from a good grounding in algorithms & data structures and computational complexity. Going to the next level, you'll want familiarity with concurrency and functional programming concepts. Beyond that, there are analytical problems involving graph theory and numerical optimization. There's also systems programming topics, security, realtime control, networking concepts, etc. And we still haven't gotten into specific application domains, like signal processing, computer vision, graphics, etc.

So, plenty to learn. And plenty of potential for damage to be done by the ignorant and overconfident.

You do have to understand the electronics to a certain point in order to optimize your code properly but you don’t have to have a degree to do so.

A common mistake I see is people trying to code-optimize something using a fundamentally inferior algorithm. At best, code optimization can deliver an order of magnitude improvement, but you're often lucky to get even a factor of 2. Using a better algorithm has the potential to yield improvements of several orders of magnitude.

In fact, you can usually do quite well by simply making sure you're using scalable algorithms and data structures. If/when performance problems occur, use a profiler to find the hot spots and do a few targeted code optimizations. Another common mistake I see is people trying to optimize some piece of code that has no relevant impact on performance. It's not only a waste of development time, but can introduce bugs and usually makes the code harder to maintain.

I’ve known people with English majors who are excellent programmers,

It definitely depends more on personality than anything. Traits that IMO make for a good programmer are creativity, diligence, and clear thinking. Those traits will also serve one well in writing prose. Indeed, some excellent programmers have written really good books on programming.

Conversely, I often hold that someone who can't explain to me how something works probably doesn't understand it, themselves. In some cases, it might be more that they simply lack or have underdeveloped tools for expressing it.

Don’t get hung up on University names. Education is like making soup. You only get out of it what you put into it and I don’t care where you go

Yes and no. Certain schools have a really good CS program, and you can safely assume anyone who made it through has a decent foundation for a successful career in the field.

 

[Dr3ams]

It doesn't need 32gb, it is recommended you have it but the minimum requirements are 16gb - link
I won't be playing it as it needs an 8core CPU and I only have 6 (I assume hyperthreading doesn't count) at the moment.
It also just looks like a new version of Myst, and that is hardly new.

Are you referring to Hogwart's Legacy?

If you use 16GB playing Hogwart's Legacy on Ultra, you will experience stuttering in the gameplay. Happened to me. There's also a YouTube video demonstrating this.

 

[sam buddy]

I won't be playing it as it needs an 8core CPU and I only have 6 (I assume hyperthreading doesn't count) at the moment.

That alone wouldn't stop me from trying to play it...

It also just looks like a new version of Myst, and that is hardly new.

...but this definitely would!

 

[Colif]

Are you referring to Hogwart's Legacy?

If you use 16GB playing Hogwart's Legacy on Ultra, you will experience stuttering in the gameplay. Happened to me. There's also a YouTube video demonstrating this.

no, i was referring to the topic of thread. Its possible you might need 32gb to play it on max graphics. I won't be testing it to find out.

 

[rluker5]

There is the whole DDR5 can't run at it's full potential on 16GB so 32GB is the new standard capacity for DDR5. https://www.msi.com/blog/a-closer-look-at-ddr5-benchmarks-with-intels-Alder-lake-cpus

I've been running 32GB since 2013 and haven't NEEDED it yet. I used to check a bunch but the performance gain was always pretty minimal from my plebian use case.

This likely will finally change with 32GB becoming the new norm for the new ram standard.

 

[Deleted member 14196]

Depends on what you mean by "code". If it's just slapping web front-ends atop legacy mainframe or server programs, that's easy enough to train someone to do. More involved tasks benefit from a good grounding in algorithms & data structures and computational complexity. Going to the next level, you'll want familiarity with concurrency and functional programming concepts. Beyond that, there are analytical problems involving graph theory and numerical optimization. There's also systems programming topics, security, realtime control, networking concepts, etc. And we still haven't gotten into specific application domains, like signal processing, computer vision, graphics, etc.

So, plenty to learn. And plenty of potential for damage to be done by the ignorant and overconfident.


A common mistake I see is people trying to code-optimize something using a fundamentally inferior algorithm. At best, code optimization can deliver an order of magnitude improvement, but you're often lucky to get even a factor of 2. Using a better algorithm has the potential to yield improvements of several orders of magnitude.

In fact, you can usually do quite well by simply making sure you're using scalable algorithms and data structures. If/when performance problems occur, use a profiler to find the hot spots and do a few targeted code optimizations. Another common mistake I see is people trying to optimize some piece of code that has no relevant impact on performance. It's not only a waste of development time, but can introduce bugs and usually makes the code harder to maintain.


It definitely depends more on personality than anything. Traits that IMO make for a good programmer are creativity, diligence, and clear thinking. Those traits will also serve one well in writing prose. Indeed, some excellent programmers have written really good books on programming.

Conversely, I often hold that someone who can't explain to me how something works probably doesn't understand it, themselves. In some cases, it might be more that they simply lack or have underdeveloped tools for expressing it.


Yes and no. Certain schools have a really good CS program, and you can safely assume anyone who made it through has a decent foundation for a successful career in the field.

You can easily get all that on your own as I did, and many others before me. You start by walking through the code in a debugger learning, the language syntax and you move forward there’s nothing magic here. I have always done all the things you mentioned from the very start and learn how to write modular and portable code.

School had nothing to do with my progranting skills. I put high performance, scalable systems in factories—still do. The skill has to be learned and it’s not all in school. I did learn to chart from college though. Loved D-charting all my algorithms

In college I bought a TRS 80 color computer and I taught myself assembly for the 6809e. Then I taught myself structured basic and then on pc C. Etc… now I do just about anything

Junior developers should never be in charge of writing drivers. and if they are there work needs to be checked

I think learning Assember was key to my efficiency in coding. C made it way easier to get that level of performance with elegant code as the compilers could match efficient assember

 

[bit_user]

You can easily get all that on your own as I did, and many others before me.

Yeah, but it's not a given that people will. When we interview candidates, we've long given them simple programming problems, and it's pretty surprising how many flail.

In college I bought a TRS 80 color computer and I taught myself assembly for the 6809e.

Junior year in high school, I found a book on assembly language at my local library and experimented with it on my 386. I wrote some accelerated graphics routines that I could call from Pascal, as I hadn't even learned C yet.

I also dabbled with Linux, but this was pre-1.0 and I had no real idea what to do with it. I was mostly a DOS kid. Direct3D didn't exist and MS Windows generally got in the way of the hardware, so I did all my VGA fiddling in DOS.

 

[SyCoREAPER]

Just like people said back in the day "you'll never need more than a few MB HDD".

Same with RAM, 16Gb is plenty. Here I am watching as this is the second title that will need 32GB. Matter of time before that becomes the norm. (second title being hogwarts legacy maxed out)

 

[bit_user]

Same with RAM, 16Gb is plenty.

I still remember getting a work PC with 512 MB and wondering what it could even use so much RAM for. It was a 2.53 GHz Northwood Pentium 4 (single-threaded).

Going multi-core, it makes sense that RAM needs to scale somewhat in line with core counts. That's not hard to understand.