Danger Den vs other setups

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netops07

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Jun 2, 2006
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I do realize...
- DD DIY setups cost less
- The kits I mention below are pricey
- DIY is fun and makes for some cool pics 8)
- I realize that all of my reported temps below are well within safe spec and acceptable for liquid cooling....even if DD is warmer ;o)

I was wondering if I could get the feedback of some users who have used Danger Den as well as other liquid cooling solutions. The reason for the this post is becasue I am getting better results with my Koolance Exos 2 and Asetek Waterchill external than with my Danger Den.

I am not gonna post each component used on the systems and liquid cooling setups becasue that would take a while, this is just a high level inquery.

On my AMD x2 4400 oc'ed to 2600 I get
Danger Den Maze 4 (I know the TDX is better) I get idle 30c and load 45c
Asetek Anarctica I get idle 20c and load 38c or so
Koolance 300 performs pretty much the same as the Asetek

This trend continues with my 805d oc'ed to 3600 and stock FX60.

Sure the 2 external systems I have cost more, but they are outperforming Danger Den and it's a much easier setup and allows for better air flow when you free up the space taken by the 2 rads and the huge 1/2" id tubing. Not to mention the massive 7800gtx sli blocks. Thank god they released the new slim line blocks.
 
Sure

I am using a CM Stacker case STC-01 and I have a shroud in the bottom of the case for a black ice rad with a single 120 mm fan. The other rad, same kind, is on the back of the case with a single 120mm fan.

Pump - DD CSP Mag
CPU block - maze 4
VGA blocks - 2 Koolance V200's (I got the same results when I used the DD 7800GTX blocks)

Flow

pump -> rad1 -> cpu block -> rad 2 -> gpu blocks -> pump

there are obviously 2 hose adapters to make up for the tubing size difference as well as an F fitting on each side of the GPU's so they both get coolant straight from the rad.

As you can see, it can be a monster moving all of this stuff around. I can move the other two systems around in no time.
 
One of the differences may be that you only have a single 120mm fan rad right before the cpu and if it's the one inside the case you are at a double disadvantage. Plus you don't have a reservoir, while it won't make a huge difference it can make some. I also don't know the specs of the water flow capabilities of the pump for the three systems but obviously more flow is better. Also everytime you change the diameter of the area of water flow you create turbulance and can create bubbles (these don't conduct heat as well as water).

I think that if you had a 2 x 120mm rad outside the case, proper hose fittings for all the components and a better pump you might see more comparable results. I'm not saying that these are the reasons just possible ones.

With the ambient temperature at 30C right now, jumps to 35C in my room with 2 computers running, I think that my set up with 35C idle and 45C load is fine. Keep in mind the high ambient temperature and the fact that my 2 x 120mm rad is inside my case (45 is still very good compared to 65 air cooled in this weather).
 
Good thoughts, I did however fail to mention that I am runnign a fill line with a T fitting going into the pump. Sorry for the ommision. I was using a DD bay res but I pulled it when I took the DD 7800GTX blocks out....same results after making the move except the GPU's are a couple of degrees cooler with the Koolance 200's.

I do not think that there is any benefit from having the 1/2" id tubing, just seen to many things that contradict that.

The system is checked frequently for air bubbles and circulation noise.

I would almost bet the results would be better if DD used smaller fittings and tubing.
 
The issue with the 1/2 tubing is that you need a pump that can handle the volume and weight of water being pushed through the system.

Remember that speed (or velocity if you prefer) is not the same as water flow. Two systems with the same water velocity but one with bigger tubing, the one with bigger tubing has much better water flow and should cool better. This comes down to the amount of water passing through the water blocks.

Due to my psu I am not running everything in my water cooling set up to full capacity, my pump is turned down to just over mid, only have 2 out of 4 fans going on my radiator. I will let you know how it goes when I get my new psu this week.

But one thing I don't understand is this.... if your ambient room temperature is in the 30C range then I can't see how you are getting 20C idle with just water cooling. The air that you are using to cool the radiator is 30C so the coolest the water can be is 30C therefore the coolest the cpu could be is 30C?.?.?
 
Your pump has the following spec:

max flow - 150 GPH
Max head - 2.5 M ( 3.5 psi )
power 8 watts


swiftech MCP655 - same as Danger Den D5

max flow 317 GPH
Max Head - 3.1m - has to do with pressure
power 24 watts

The above pump - is recommended for 1/2 tubing - Because it can
provide high pressure for the larger diameter tubing.

If you have a low pressure pump - which you have - 1/2 tubing
is bad because with CPU blocks that restrict water flow - are made
to work with high pressure. If you reduce the diameter - it increases
the pressure.

I've been researching this topic, no practical experience, because
I'm putting together a new water cool conroe system.

I've heard good things about the koolance.

Hope this helps.
 
Hey Waylander

How do you submit images? I can't paste a pic and do not see anything that allows me to upload a file, I can send you screen shots of the temp readings from my asetek and dd setups.

I maintain good airflow and the inside of my PC is cooler than the air in the room so the cpu gets that benefit.

Also remember that the asetek system is external with 4 12mm fans surrounding a black ice rad. The unit is very cool to the touch.

The Koolance system is nice but the Asetek, same price as Exos 2, comes with cpu, vga and chipset blocks. You can also buy another block cover and convert the chipset cooler to vga. SLI Ready.
 
Sorry dude but that still doesn't make any sense... You cannot have the inside of the computer case cooler than ambient. Other devices than the cpu and gpu give off heat, hard drives, optical drives... etc basically if you have power running to it, it will give off heat. In that sort of environment there is no way that the inside of the case could be cooler than the ambient air temperature...

I'm not calling you a liar but you say you have good air flow... but that air is coming from the air in the computer room therefore the air inside the case has to be at least as warm as the air in the room....

Also, since your external systems are working better that would indicate, among other things, that the air outside the case is cooler than inside.

Does anyone else think that this is fishy when his temps for the cpu are cooler than ambient? This would only make sense in a peltier or phase system.
 
Dude, think about that. Have you ever been outside on a hot day and used one of those little hand held fans? The air that hits you is cooler than the air if you were not using the fan.

Why do people use fans for assisting in room cooling if the air on the output side is not cooler?

So back to the Asetek, there are 4 fans 2 on each side of a metal rad. The rad is always hit by the air from the fans.

Sit a small metal object on your desk and turn a fan on it.....I will bet in a minute or so that small metal object will be cool to the touch. Based on your theory the object would never have a temp change.

Also, if your theory was correct then all liquid cooling systems would be passive. If we cant lower the temp by using fans then why use fans at all.

There are multiple factors. Ambient temp, block material, where the rad is housed, how much air hits the rad...

As I said, tell me how to post picks and I will show you the asetek and dd temps.
 
You also read my original post where the 20c from the Asetek is external right?

Thus the reason for my original post to compare DD to other cooling solutions. The two in question being the Asetek Waterchill external and The Koolance Exos 2.

The DD turns in the higher temps and it's an iternal setup. All of those things were mentioned in the original post.
 
First of all I don't want to call you stupid but.....

The reason we use fans is because when the air blown by fans hit the moisture on our bodies we feel a subjective "coolness" this has nothing to do with whether we are actually cooler in a temperature sense.... try having two thermometers in a room and run a fan on one.... it will not be any cooler than the other.

The reason that we run fans to pull air from the room into the computer is because the room is typically cooler than the air in the computer. Room temperature is usually around 20-23C which is cooler than the inside of the computer.. typically 30-40C.

And go ahead and run the test with the fan and the small metal object... it WON'T feel cooler... christ learn some simple thermodynamics.

People feel cooler from a fan because of a PHYSIOLOGICAL response NOT a PHYSICAL one. The last time I checked metal does not have a physiology.

God I hate arguing with people about science when they think they are right.... Kind of like the "I feel good" argument.
 
There is no arguing.

I see that you have made over 400 posts here, perhaps in one of those you attached a pic.

Simply tell me how to post a pic and I will be glad to show you the temp reading from the DD system and the Asetek system

You also stated that the ambient temp of your room is 30c, which is 86 f, how can you work in that kinda heat?

The top 2 fan grills on the Asetek are cool to the touch, but to make you feel better, you are right. We shall agree to disagree until someone can tell me how to post pics.

Take it easy man.
 
Sorry i don't like to get into arguments online either... your room must be significantly cooler than mine for sure.

I don't like the temps but when it's 32C outside and I have to keep the door closed (my wife doesn't like it when I yell while playing CS) it gets hot in here.

I still don't think that anything can be cooler than ambient temperatures, and lets face it, unless you have a temp probe attached directly to the processor most utilities are way off.

So we got off topic anyway... regardless of what temperature it is there is a big difference and I think we covered all the bases.

120mm rad w/ 1 fan vs. 2 x 120mm rad w/ 4 fans (this is right before the cpu not what is in the system total)
Internal vs. external
crappy pump vs. good pump


You can post pics by using an image hosting site like

http://www.quickload.hostingvision.com/

Once you've uploaded the pictures, copy the direct link here and highlight it, then press the "Img" button at the top.
 
First of all I don't want to call you stupid but.....

The reason we use fans is because when the air blown by fans hit the moisture on our bodies we feel a subjective "coolness" this has nothing to do with whether we are actually cooler in a temperature sense.... try having two thermometers in a room and run a fan on one.... it will not be any cooler than the other.

The reason that we run fans to pull air from the room into the computer is because the room is typically cooler than the air in the computer. Room temperature is usually around 20-23C which is cooler than the inside of the computer.. typically 30-40C.

And go ahead and run the test with the fan and the small metal object... it WON'T feel cooler... christ learn some simple thermodynamics.

People feel cooler from a fan because of a PHYSIOLOGICAL response NOT a PHYSICAL one. The last time I checked metal does not have a physiology.

God I hate arguing with people about science when they think they are right.... Kind of like the "I feel good" argument.
Click to expand...

You're almost right - it's not PHYSIOLOGICAL - it is physical - at least
for people:


Wind chill is the apparent temperature felt on exposed skin due to the combination of air temperature and wind speed. Except at higher temperatures, where wind chill is considered less important, the wind chill temperature (often incorrectly called the "wind chill factor") is always lower than the air temperature, because any wind increases the rate at which moisture evaporates from the skin and carries heat away from the body. The phase change of water (in sweat) from liquid to vapor requires that the molecules reach a higher energy state. That energy is acquired by absorbing heat from surrounding tissue by conduction (see heat transfer).

Air movement increases the rate at which the temperature of an object reaches the temperature of the ambient air. Humans feel this increased rate of heat transfer as wind chill.

- The whole reason why overclockers - move up to peltier devices -
is because they want to get colder than room temperature.

Water-cooling will never get below room temperature.
 
WTF why is everyone arguing with me... we are not talking about wind chill, that usually only occurs when it is already cold... believe me I live in an area where it can get to -40C (also -40F).

The process we are talking about here is when it is hot outside and your body sweats (that's the moisture) a wind will quicken the evaporation process and that is why you feel cooler... this is physiological. As in your physiology.

Main Entry: phys·i·ol·o·gy
Pronunciation: "fiz-E-'äl-&-jE
Function: noun
Inflected Form: plural -gies
1 : a branch of biology that deals with the functions and activities of life or of living matter (as organs, tissues, or cells) and of the physical and chemical phenomena involved —compare ANATOMY 1, MORPHOLOGY 1
2 : the organic processes and phenomena of an organism or any of its parts or of a particular bodily process <the physiology of the thyroid gland>
3 : a treatise on physiology

but at least you agree that water cooling will never get below room temperature.
 
WTF why is everyone arguing with me... we are not talking about wind chill, that usually only occurs when it is already cold... believe me I live in an area where it can get to -40C (also -40F).

The process we are talking about here is when it is hot outside and your body sweats (that's the moisture) a wind will quicken the evaporation process and that is why you feel cooler... this is physiological. As in your physiology.

Main Entry: phys·i·ol·o·gy
Pronunciation: "fiz-E-'äl-&-jE
Function: noun
Inflected Form: plural -gies
1 : a branch of biology that deals with the functions and activities of life or of living matter (as organs, tissues, or cells) and of the physical and chemical phenomena involved —compare ANATOMY 1, MORPHOLOGY 1
2 : the organic processes and phenomena of an organism or any of its parts or of a particular bodily process <the physiology of the thyroid gland>
3 : a treatise on physiology

but at least you agree that water cooling will never get below room temperature.
Click to expand...

My mistake about the meaning of physiological - I do agree with you
100%. I was trying to find an article that gave you the formulae that
rated different radiators - you plug in the ambient temperature - and
it tells you what to expect.
 
The best air cooling system can beat the worst water cooled systems......

Danger den make water cooling products for a lot of people including swiftec. Infact some swiftec products are re-badged danger den products!
 
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