DDR motherboard !!

[Guest]

I am getting a GIGABYTE GA 7DX AMD® 761 AGPset ATX board with the DDR PC2100. I know it supports the FBS of 266Mhz for the T-Bird's with FBS 266Mhz however since these processors have not come out yet. I was wondering if it would be possible to use the regular T-Bird with 200Mhz FBS and change it to 266 Mhz. I know that Tom said something about it on his site but I am still unclear about it.

Is it worth doing it if it is possible???

Any input will be appreciated.
Thanks

 

[yoda271828]

The 200Mhz Athlons and 266Mhz Athlons are exactly the same except for the multiplier setting. If you unlock a 200Mhz Athlon and reduce the multiplier then voila!, you have a 266Mhz Athlon.

 

[IntelConvert]

"The 200Mhz Athlons and 266Mhz Athlons are exactly the same except for the multiplier setting. If you unlock a 200Mhz Athlon and reduce the multiplier then voila!, you have a 266Mhz Athlon" ...Yoda

Yoda, I'm not too sure about that. I believe the pin-timing of the 100MHz DDR (200MHz FSB) and the 133MHz DDR (266MHz FSB) is probably different. I would think the 266MHz cpu requires tighter pin-timing than the 200MHz cpu.

AMD identifies the 266MHz FSB cpu with a "C" part number (whereas the 200MHz FSB cpu has a "B" part number). There are good reasons for this, and I'm pretty sure one of those reasons is because their new 266MHz "C" parts are QC-tested to operate RELIABLY at 133MHz DDR (266MHz FSB).

Although I've not yet seen any pricing on the 266MHz FSB cpu, for these reasons I would bet the farm that it will sell at a premium to the 200MHz FSB cpu.

Just my $.02 - I welcome other opinions...

 

[yoda271828]

Two respected hardware sites have both published that 200Mhz Athlons and 266Mhz Athlons are exactly the same except for their multiplier:

<i>The BIOS-setup allows the alteration of the processor bus clock in small steps and it also lets you overclock the SocketA processors once you closed the L1-bridges on the CPU. Unfortunately MSI forgot to include an option to lower the CPU-multiplier, which would be very useful for owners of 100 MHz FSB Athlon or Duron processors that want to run their CPUs at 133 MHz FSB.</i>
<A HREF="http://www.tomshardware.com/mainboard/01q1/010104/amd-133fsb-03.html" target="_new">http://www.tomshardware.com/mainboard/01q1/010104/amd-133fsb-03.html</A>

<i>You can immediately tell that two of these CPUs, the 1GHz and 1.2GHz parts, overlap with 100MHz FSB parts while the 1.13GHz Athlon is a 133MHz FSB-only chip. The only thing that sets the 1GHz and 1.2GHz CPUs apart from their 100MHz FSB counterparts is their clock multiplier. While the 100MHz FSB Athlon running at 1.2GHz has a 12.0x clock multiplier (12 x 100 = 1200MHz), the 133MHz FSB version only has a 9.0x multiplier (9 x 133 = 1200MHz). Obviously if you have a motherboard that can get around the clock multiplier lock this won’t pose a problem to you, but if not, then you will want to make sure that you only use a 133MHz FSB CPU on an AMD 760 board.</i>
<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.html?i=1344&p=3" target="_new">http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.html?i=1344&p=3</A>

 

[pvsurfer]

Hey Yoda:

I read those reviews as well, and while I also respect those sites, IntelConvert's point does seem logical. It seems to me that only AMD can confirm what those reviewers reported as being totally factual!

 

[novice]

------------------------------------------------------------
While the 100MHz FSB Athlon running at 1.2GHz has a 12.0x clock multiplier (12 x 100 = 1200MHz), the 133MHz FSB version only has a 9.0x multiplier (9 x 133 = 1200MHz).
------------------------------------------------------------

I thought the 1.2GHz Athlon has 200MHz FSB. Maybe I'm confused but I'd rather ask.

 

[pvsurfer]

Novice~

You got it right! All current T-Birds are 200MHz FSB (the "B" part). They are the only ones available for purchase. The 266MHz FSB T-Birds (the "C" part) are the new versions which are presently in short supply - to only one OEM manufacturer that I know of - Micron PC (used in their "XP" PC).

 

[yoda271828]

Wouldn't they have tested it before printing such a claim? I respect Tom's and Anandtech because they do their homework and their reviews are top notch. And I will take their word for it until someone can prove them wrong. Does anyone here have a good quality 133Mhz Athlon board that can verify whether or not the 100Mhz DDR Athlons run at 133Mhz DDR?

 

[yoda271828]

AMD's claim to have a 200Mhz FSB can be misleading (which is exactly what their marketing department meant to do). The FSB is actually 100Mhz DDR, meaning that the actual clock speed is 100 million cycles per second, but it transfers two bits of data per clock cycle instead of one. So the amount of data transferred is equivalent to 200Mhz.

AMD recently released <i>official</i> processors designed for a 133Mhz DDR FSB (or 266Mhz effectively), but unofficially the old 100Mhz DDR processors will run at 133Mhz DDR by unlocking the multiplier.

The new Pentium 4 uses the same marketing gimick. Its FSB is 100Mhz QDR (100Mhz with four bits transferred per clock cycle), not 400Mhz.

Beware marketing gimicks, they run rampant in the computer industry.

 

[pvsurfer]

Yoda:

I don't argue that referring to a 200MHz or 266MHz bus is in fact incorrect. The "B" and "C" parts are actually a double-data rate 100 or 133MHz bus, respectively. But in my last reply to Novice, I didn't want to get into those technicalities and confuse him/her any more. That wasn't the point of his/her confusion.

Responding to your comment... "Wouldn't they have tested it before printing such a claim? I respect Tom's and Anandtech because they do their homework and their reviews are top notch. And I will take their word for it until someone can prove them wrong." Of course they tested it. I'm not suggesting that Tom, Anand, or any T-Bird reviewer/tester aren't telling us exactly what they did and experienced. What I am suggesting is that EACH AMD's 266MHz "C" part is QC-TESTED to operate RELIABLY at 133MHz DDR (266MHz FSB), whereas EACH 200MHz "B" part is QC-TESTED to operate reliably at just 100MHz DDR (200MHz FSB). That doesn't mean that the "B" part won't operate at the speed of the "C" part. I'm implying that the "B" part isn't subjected to 133MHZ QUALITY CONTROL, so chances are that some percentage of those parts will not operate reliably at that higher clock rate.

Peace!

 

[pvsurfer]

BTW, that's how I interpreted IntelConvert's earlier post. I'm just agreeing with his belief about AMD's TESTING of the respective T-Bird parts!

 

[IntelConvert]

Well, I guess that's what these forums are all about. Differences of opinion, without disrespect for one another's right to express them.

I need to say that in no way did I intend to impune the integrity of TomsHardware or the AnandTech staffs. While at times they may not address issues that some of us would have liked discussed, overall they really do a great job - even if they do favor AMD over Intel (just joking)!

 

[Guest]

Do any of you know if the DDR gigabyte motherboard will allow the multplier to be but to 9.0??
The board supports the 133mhz FBS but am not sure if It will allow you to change the FSB of the T-Bird to 133Mhz

 

[yoda271828]

I interpreted novices' question differently then you, so I responded to the question as I understood it.

Your right the new 266Mhz Athlons will be tested at the new FSB setting, but the FSB of the processor is very rarely the limiting factor in overclocking the FSB as a whole. It's usually the memory, PCI, AGP, nothbridge chip, or in the case of Athlon mobos, the clock generator. I would imagine only a <i>very, very</i> small number of 200Mhz Athlons couldn't run at 266Mhz. Well, we'll see within the next few months.

 

[yoda271828]

Sorry, the Gigabyte board has no voltage or multiplier adjustments and a very limited FSB setting selection. You can still adjust the multiplier directly via the CPU's L1 bridges though.

 

[Guest]

Is there anywhere I can go to read on how to do this.

 

[yoda271828]

Here you go: <A HREF="http://www4.tomshardware.com/cpu/00q3/000711/index.html" target="_new">http://www4.tomshardware.com/cpu/00q3/000711/index.html</A>

 

[pvsurfer]

As to your last queston, I fully agree with Yoda's reply.

Unless you already purchased the GA-7DX, I would suggest that you consider MSI's MS-6341, a more feature-rich board. BTW, where are you buying the DDR PC2100 SDRAM and how much are you paying for it?

 

[Guest]

Is MSI MS-6341 out yet. And if it is where could I get one.

 

[mpjesse]

I paid $111 for 128 megs of PC2100 from Crucial- however those were engineering samples and I bought them a long time ago. They work fine. I'm glad I did too because as soon as DDR memory hit the market- it skyrocketed.

-MP Jesse

 

[pvsurfer]

calfroper55~
I suggested the MS-6341 after reviewing the features/specs on all "announced" DDR mobos (most of which are scarce at best). The problem is that most of them (like the PC2100 sticks) are tough to find. After you asked the where question, I checked out several on-line stores but to no avail; so I called the MSI distributor here in CA, who told me "they expect product from MSI Feb." It's possible that some other distributors have the board, so you may want to canvas them (see www.msicomputer.com).


Even if you have to wait a month or so, IMHO the MS-6341 is a lot more board than the GA-7DX. And by that time, PC2100 sticks will probably also be more abundant.

Good luck!

 

[Guest]

I'm in a similar boat. i bought PC-2100 DDR memory and a DDR capable SocketA board before realizing that I needed a version of the Thunderbird that no one seems to have.

So my question is, if I get a 200Mhz FSB version of the Thunderbird, and don't want to risk overclocking it to 266, can I still use my pc-2100 ddr ram? I'm pretty sure the motherboard supports both fsb clock rates.

 

[Tempus]

No, although the motherboard does support both clock rates. DDR is arranged syncronously (or is ir asyncronously) so that it needs PC1600 DDR SDRAM for a 200Mhz T-Bird, and PC2100 for the 266Mhz chip. It may work, but with severe performance loss.

- "I forgot my shirt, but I had body glitter."

 

[Guest]

Just to clarify, the "severe" performance loss means that your PC2100 memory will be running at PC1600 instead.

I just mention this because the way Tempus made it sound, was that you needed PC1600 memory or you'd get worse performance (with the PC2100 memory) which wouldn't be the case.

Of course I very likely misinterpreted what Tempus said.

 

[Tempus]

Sorry if I was unclear, Allan has it right.

- "I forgot my shirt, but I had body glitter."