Dear Bethesda...

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Dear Bethesda,

When you make Elder Scrolls IV, please make sure that the inhabitants
of the virtual land have names that are easy to remember. Please try
to refrain from making your loyal customers try to remember the names
of hundreds of names that are seemingly composed of 25+ strange
letters seemingly arranged at random, often including four or five
consonants in a row.

Here's a hint: If the name is unpronounceable by an adult American,
then you should probably choose a simpler name. Frodo. Gandalf.
Kulgan. Arthur. I'd even settle for a John Smith. But enough with
all the "Deaxythol Arsthruoxal".

Thank you for listening.
 
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Opticreep wrote:
> Here's a hint: If the name is unpronounceable by an adult American,
> then you should probably choose a simpler name. Frodo. Gandalf.
> Kulgan. Arthur. I'd even settle for a John Smith. But enough with
> all the "Deaxythol Arsthruoxal".
>
> Thank you for listening.

Heh. Likewise I'm sure.

--
chainbreaker

If you need to email, then chainbreaker (naturally) at comcast dot
net--that's "net" not "com"--should do it.
 

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Opticreep wrote:
> Dear Bethesda,
>
> When you make Elder Scrolls IV, please make sure that the inhabitants
> of the virtual land have names that are easy to remember. Please try
> to refrain from making your loyal customers try to remember the names
> of hundreds of names that are seemingly composed of 25+ strange
> letters seemingly arranged at random, often including four or five
> consonants in a row.
>
> Here's a hint: If the name is unpronounceable by an adult American,
> then you should probably choose a simpler name. Frodo. Gandalf.
> Kulgan. Arthur. I'd even settle for a John Smith. But enough with
> all the "Deaxythol Arsthruoxal".
>
> Thank you for listening.

Dear Valued Customer,

Thank you for your recent feedback. We will be taking your advice and
renaming all of our NPC's "Leslie" - this will eliminate the need to
remember any names at all. Additionally, so as to minimize the need to
remember what they look like, we will make them all identical.

We're also pleased to announce that, with our new FontBlaster2005
rendering engine, we will be able to take advantage of both ATi and
nVidia's latest graphics technology when we render the letters of those
Leslies. Each letter will be lovingly hand-crafted and then traced by
Ray, our in-house letterer before being placed into the exciting new
game that is Elder Scrolls: IV.

Thank you, and please continue purchasing Bethesda products.
 
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I agree with you Opticreep, I complained about this years ago.
I dislike all these long assed names that very few can pronounce
in games too. Especially when you have so many NPCs as
morrowind did. There are tons of easy to remember, easy to
pronounce names out there, but no, Bethesda has to have a
random name generator running to get some of those names
they used... Fatretzulata Kortintuquaipz
lol........


"Opticreep" <opticreep@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:9e1f277e.0410280336.31d84096@posting.google.com...
> Dear Bethesda,
>
> When you make Elder Scrolls IV, please make sure that the inhabitants
> of the virtual land have names that are easy to remember. Please try
> to refrain from making your loyal customers try to remember the names
> of hundreds of names that are seemingly composed of 25+ strange
> letters seemingly arranged at random, often including four or five
> consonants in a row.
>
> Here's a hint: If the name is unpronounceable by an adult American,
> then you should probably choose a simpler name. Frodo. Gandalf.
> Kulgan. Arthur. I'd even settle for a John Smith. But enough with
> all the "Deaxythol Arsthruoxal".
>
> Thank you for listening.
 
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"Opticreep" <opticreep@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:9e1f277e.0410280336.31d84096@posting.google.com...
> Dear Bethesda,

> Here's a hint: If the name is unpronounceable by an adult American,
> then you should probably choose a simpler name. Frodo. Gandalf.
> Kulgan. Arthur. I'd even settle for a John Smith. But enough with
> all the "Deaxythol Arsthruoxal".
>
p'ah, just because you Americans don't like learning new languages. Take an
evening class learning Welsh and you'll be fine with the names and they'll
be easy to remember because they all sound like nearby villages, or that's
what I've found at least.
 
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mark foster wrote:
> p'ah, just because you Americans don't like learning new languages.
> Take an evening class learning Welsh and you'll be fine with the
> names and they'll be easy to remember because they all sound like
> nearby villages, or that's what I've found at least.

OMG, you sound just like a linguistics prof I once had, who was convinced
that the only way you could *ever* really understand English language
history was to actually live in Wales for at least a couple of years.

--
chainbreaker

If you need to email, then chainbreaker (naturally) at comcast dot
net--that's "net" not "com"--should do it.
 
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"mark foster" <marknospam@jjmotors.co.uk> writes:

> Take an evening class learning Welsh and you'll be fine with the
> names and they'll be easy to remember because they all sound like
> nearby villages,

And by the time you've finished saying the name of the village, we'll
have arrived there.

Nick, with apologies to Black Adder

--
# sigmask || 0.2 || 20030107 || public domain || feed this to a python
print reduce(lambda x,y:x+chr(ord(y)-1),' Ojdl!Wbshjti!=obwAcboefstobudi/psh?')
 
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"sandtiger" <sandtiger01@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:itmdnUNWHPE4aR3cRVn-rw@comcast.com...
>
> We're also pleased to announce that, with our new FontBlaster2005
> rendering engine, we will be able to take advantage of both ATi and
> nVidia's latest graphics technology when we render the letters of those
> Leslies. Each letter will be lovingly hand-crafted and then traced by
> Ray, our in-house letterer before being placed into the exciting new
> game that is Elder Scrolls: IV.

Ah, I always wondered what ray-traced meant. He must be a busy guy.

Rich
 
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"chainbreaker" <noone@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:clqp2u02fb4@news2.newsguy.com...
> mark foster wrote:
>
> OMG, you sound just like a linguistics prof I once had, who was convinced
> that the only way you could *ever* really understand English language
> history was to actually live in Wales for at least a couple of years.
>
god no, you'll never understand the English language from living in Wales.
Less than half the population now actually speak Welsh fluently but we use
Welsh grammer when speaking in English e.g "town I'm off to now, isn't it".
Maybe if you got a map and started learning Welsh place names it would help,
Llanelli, Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch,
Bethesda etc.
 
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mark foster wrote:
> god no, you'll never understand the English language from living in
> Wales. Less than half the population now actually speak Welsh
> fluently but we use Welsh grammer when speaking in English e.g "town
> I'm off to now, isn't it". Maybe if you got a map and started
> learning Welsh place names it would help, Llanelli,
> Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch, Bethesda
> etc.

Heh, it was the prof's notion, not mine.

*My* notion was that if I wanted to learn English etymology what I needed to
do was *study* English etymology--not waste two years trying to decipher
Welsh in Wales. :)

What I *really* think she was doing was laying the groundwork for a
university-financed extended vacation. :D
--
chainbreaker

If you need to email, then chainbreaker (naturally) at comcast dot
net--that's "net" not "com"--should do it.
 
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Opticreep wrote:
>
> Dear Bethesda,
>
> When you make Elder Scrolls IV, please make sure that the inhabitants
> of the virtual land have names that are easy to remember. Please try
> to refrain from making your loyal customers try to remember the names
> of hundreds of names that are seemingly composed of 25+ strange
> letters seemingly arranged at random, often including four or five
> consonants in a row.
>
> Here's a hint: If the name is unpronounceable by an adult American,
> then you should probably choose a simpler name. Frodo. Gandalf.
> Kulgan. Arthur. I'd even settle for a John Smith. But enough with
> all the "Deaxythol Arsthruoxal".

Dear Bethesda,

Just give us a journal that keeps track of all the individual NPCs
that we've spoken with, what they said and where they're located.
If you do that, we won't need to remember much, it'll all be there
in the journal. You've done a good job with the present journal,
just increase it's capabilities a bit and make it easier to use.
Thanks.
 
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Opticreep wrote:
>
> Here's a hint: If the name is unpronounceable by an adult American,
> then you should probably choose a simpler name. Frodo. Gandalf.
> Kulgan. Arthur. I'd even settle for a John Smith. But enough with
> all the "Deaxythol Arsthruoxal".

What's unpronouncable about Hasphat Antabolis or Divayth Fyr? Is it
possible that you're overstating the issue?

Also, isn't it a bit strange to expect they'd use Vvardenfell naming
conventions in Cyrodiil?

--
Elizabeth D. Brooks | kali.magdalene@comcast.net | US2002021724
Listowner: Aberrants_Worldwide, Fading_Suns_Games, TrinityRPG
AeonAdventure | "Dobby likes us!" -- Smeagol
-- http://www.theonering.net/scrapbook/view/6856
 

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Julie d'Aubigny wrote:
> Opticreep wrote:
>
>>
>>Here's a hint: If the name is unpronounceable by an adult American,
>>then you should probably choose a simpler name. Frodo. Gandalf.
>>Kulgan. Arthur. I'd even settle for a John Smith. But enough with
>>all the "Deaxythol Arsthruoxal".
>
>
> What's unpronouncable about Hasphat Antabolis or Divayth Fyr? Is it
> possible that you're overstating the issue?
>
> Also, isn't it a bit strange to expect they'd use Vvardenfell naming
> conventions in Cyrodiil?
>

Anything "foreign" is going to be more difficult to remember, certainly,
but not at all unpronounceable in my opinion.

I imagine someone used to names English speakers might consider exotic
would have a hell of a time remembering the bizarre collection of sounds
that is "Samuel" or "Jonathan" etc.
 
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"Opticreep" <opticreep@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:9e1f277e.0410280336.31d84096@posting.google.com...
>
> Here's a hint: If the name is unpronounceable by an adult American,
> then you should probably choose a simpler name. Frodo. Gandalf.
> Kulgan. Arthur. I'd even settle for a John Smith. But enough with
> all the "Deaxythol Arsthruoxal".
>

The people I had no problem with, but the Daedric shrines
were/are a nightmare.

Ahhh, I've found aaalllleeeggghhh shrine, but I've been sent to
aaallleeejjjjhhh shrine........... arghhhhhhh :)



--
Edward Cowling - London - UK
 
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sandtiger wrote:
>
> Anything "foreign" is going to be more difficult to remember, certainly,
> but not at all unpronounceable in my opinion.

Possibly. I admit, I didn't really have that much trouble with the names
in terms of pronunciation or recollection.

> I imagine someone used to names English speakers might consider exotic
> would have a hell of a time remembering the bizarre collection of sounds
> that is "Samuel" or "Jonathan" etc.

Very possibly.

--
Elizabeth D. Brooks | kali.magdalene@comcast.net | US2002021724
Listowner: Aberrants_Worldwide, Fading_Suns_Games, TrinityRPG
AeonAdventure | "Dobby likes us!" -- Smeagol
-- http://www.theonering.net/scrapbook/view/6856
 
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Julie d'Aubigny <kali.magdalene@comcast.net> wrote in message news:<4181797A.F12B582B@comcast.net>...
>
> Possibly. I admit, I didn't really have that much trouble with the names
> in terms of pronunciation or recollection.
>


I'm glad you didn't have problems with name recollections. But for
the rest of us mere mortals, it can be a problem.

As I remember it, when Morrowind dominated newsgroup discussion,
people hardly ever used the proper names for people and shrines.
There were exceptions, of course, especially when it came to main
characters and important places. But the vast majority of the side
quests, people simply said "the guy who (blah) (blah)" or the shrine
where (blah) (blah)".

For most games, I'd usually google the name of an NPC to get some
quest info. For Morrowind, it was a bit more difficult. Most people
have a hard enough time remembering "dysxthwoel vvranfzdyll" without
having to memorize its spelling. Hell, I find myself having to write
down the name of the NPC on a piece of paper so I can google it 30
seconds later.

I do see why Behesda opted for the strange names, but I do not agree
with them. They feel that by giving these NPCs strange names, we'll
find ourselves more immersed in an exotic, unique environment.
However, I think these names have become so ridiculously
irrememberable, that it takes away from the game's immersion. Instead
of simply thinking "Minsc wants to visit Humility Shrine" or "Shamino
wants to go to Trinisc", I find myself thinking "The NPC with a
screwed up name that starts with "vv" and ends with "yxl" wants me to
go to a shrine whose name is somewhere along the lines of dsyraxola or
dsyrxoltt or somesuch.
 
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Edward Cowling wrote:
>
> "Opticreep" <opticreep@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:9e1f277e.0410280336.31d84096@posting.google.com...
> >
> > Here's a hint: If the name is unpronounceable by an adult American,
> > then you should probably choose a simpler name. Frodo. Gandalf.
> > Kulgan. Arthur. I'd even settle for a John Smith. But enough with
> > all the "Deaxythol Arsthruoxal".
> >
>
> The people I had no problem with, but the Daedric shrines
> were/are a nightmare.
>
> Ahhh, I've found aaalllleeeggghhh shrine, but I've been sent to
> aaallleeejjjjhhh shrine........... arghhhhhhh :)

The Daedric ruins had names that almost have a rhythmic quality to them.
Now, the Dwemer ruins...those were a pain. Mzahnch was one of the easier
ones. :)

--
Elizabeth D. Brooks | kali.magdalene@comcast.net | US2002021724
Listowner: Aberrants_Worldwide, Fading_Suns_Games, TrinityRPG
AeonAdventure | "Dobby likes us!" -- Smeagol
-- http://www.theonering.net/scrapbook/view/6856
 
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Julie d'Aubigny <kali.magdalene@comcast.net> wrote:

>Opticreep wrote:
>>
>> Here's a hint: If the name is unpronounceable by an adult American,
>> then you should probably choose a simpler name. Frodo. Gandalf.
>> Kulgan. Arthur. I'd even settle for a John Smith. But enough with
>> all the "Deaxythol Arsthruoxal".
>
>What's unpronouncable about Hasphat Antabolis or Divayth Fyr? Is it
>possible that you're overstating the issue?
>

More importantly, even if they were unpronouncable, what does it matter?
Morrowind has no speech recognition capability that I'm aware of. :)
 
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Opticreep wrote:

> Dear Bethesda,
>
> When you make Elder Scrolls IV, please make sure that the inhabitants
> of the virtual land have names that are easy to remember. Please try
> to refrain from making your loyal customers try to remember the names
> of hundreds of names that are seemingly composed of 25+ strange
> letters seemingly arranged at random, often including four or five
> consonants in a row.
>
> Here's a hint: If the name is unpronounceable by an adult American,
> then you should probably choose a simpler name. Frodo. Gandalf.
> Kulgan. Arthur. I'd even settle for a John Smith. But enough with
> all the "Deaxythol Arsthruoxal".
>
> Thank you for listening.

Of course! It would add so much to the atmosphere of a game to cross
swords with the dreaded fighter-mage Mike Johnson, or the Goblin King
Bill Hancock....

Why must all things be dumbed down to accomodate the dimmest amongst us?
(On a similar note, I'm sure that all the Lefavres way back in Brett
Favre's family tree would be appalled to learn that their family name
has morphed into being pronounced "Farve").
 
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Opticreep wrote:
>
> Julie d'Aubigny <kali.magdalene@comcast.net> wrote in message news:<4181797A.F12B582B@comcast.net>...
> >
> > Possibly. I admit, I didn't really have that much trouble with the names
> > in terms of pronunciation or recollection.
> >
>
> I'm glad you didn't have problems with name recollections. But for
> the rest of us mere mortals, it can be a problem.

Yeah, 'cause names like Caius Cosades, Nibani Maesa, Ra'Virr, and the
like are so impossible to recall.

> As I remember it, when Morrowind dominated newsgroup discussion,
> people hardly ever used the proper names for people and shrines.
> There were exceptions, of course, especially when it came to main
> characters and important places. But the vast majority of the side
> quests, people simply said "the guy who (blah) (blah)" or the shrine
> where (blah) (blah)".

Like, no one ever remembered the name Addamasartus? Or places like
Falasmaryon?

> For most games, I'd usually google the name of an NPC to get some
> quest info. For Morrowind, it was a bit more difficult. Most people
> have a hard enough time remembering "dysxthwoel vvranfzdyll" without
> having to memorize its spelling. Hell, I find myself having to write
> down the name of the NPC on a piece of paper so I can google it 30
> seconds later.

That's fine, because there aren't any NPCs named like that in Morrowind.

And those that come within a few football fields of being named like
that are named in the Dunmer language. Since the new game will be taking
place in Cyrodiil, you're most likely to see names that more closely
resemble Latin (like Caius Cosades) and not what you see as gibberish.

> I do see why Behesda opted for the strange names, but I do not agree
> with them. They feel that by giving these NPCs strange names, we'll
> find ourselves more immersed in an exotic, unique environment.
> However, I think these names have become so ridiculously
> irrememberable, that it takes away from the game's immersion. Instead
> of simply thinking "Minsc wants to visit Humility Shrine" or "Shamino
> wants to go to Trinisc", I find myself thinking "The NPC with a
> screwed up name that starts with "vv" and ends with "yxl" wants me to
> go to a shrine whose name is somewhere along the lines of dsyraxola or
> dsyrxoltt or somesuch.

I never had this problem, but while I played Morrowind twice, I
apparently didn't play the same game you did.

--
Elizabeth D. Brooks | kali.magdalene@comcast.net | US2002021724
Listowner: Aberrants_Worldwide, Fading_Suns_Games, TrinityRPG
AeonAdventure | "Dobby likes us!" -- Smeagol
-- http://www.theonering.net/scrapbook/view/6856
 
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On 28 Oct 2004 04:36:53 -0700, opticreep@yahoo.com (Opticreep) wrote:

>Dear Bethesda,

I'd like to break in with a different theory:

In my opinion, the character names in Morrowind aren't that difficult
to pronounce and remember (with the exception of the Daedra, but hey,
they're Daedra...) The problem is just that there's so many NPCs that
its impossible to keep them all straight. It wouldn't matter if they
all had 'boring' American (or whatever your culture is) names. John
Smith is easy to remember, until you put him in with Joe Smith, John
Brown, Joe Brown, Greg Smith, Joe Benson, Jane Smith, Jenny Brown, Tom
Jones, etc, etc.

Basically, no matter what names they pick, they're not going to be
easy to remember. The problem isn't the names - its the fact that the
human brain can't keep track of that many 'people' being met all at
once. The best solution would be one already mentioned, make sure
that the game has a good journal and map function so we don't need to
remember all those names, because no matter what they are, we're not
going to remember them anyway...
 

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Opticreep wrote:

>
>
> I'm glad you didn't have problems with name recollections. But for
> the rest of us mere mortals, it can be a problem.
>
> As I remember it, when Morrowind dominated newsgroup discussion,
> people hardly ever used the proper names for people and shrines.
> There were exceptions, of course, especially when it came to main
> characters and important places. But the vast majority of the side
> quests, people simply said "the guy who (blah) (blah)" or the shrine
> where (blah) (blah)".
>
> For most games, I'd usually google the name of an NPC to get some
> quest info. For Morrowind, it was a bit more difficult. Most people
> have a hard enough time remembering "dysxthwoel vvranfzdyll" without
> having to memorize its spelling. Hell, I find myself having to write
> down the name of the NPC on a piece of paper so I can google it 30
> seconds later.
>
> I do see why Behesda opted for the strange names, but I do not agree
> with them. They feel that by giving these NPCs strange names, we'll
> find ourselves more immersed in an exotic, unique environment.
> However, I think these names have become so ridiculously
> irrememberable, that it takes away from the game's immersion. Instead
> of simply thinking "Minsc wants to visit Humility Shrine" or "Shamino
> wants to go to Trinisc", I find myself thinking "The NPC with a
> screwed up name that starts with "vv" and ends with "yxl" wants me to
> go to a shrine whose name is somewhere along the lines of dsyraxola or
> dsyrxoltt or somesuch.


Doesn't the game itself, when talking to npc's about
daedric shrines, describe the names as being those long
unpronouncable names? 'You'll recognize a deadric shrine by
the fact that is a long unpronouncable name'. Or some such.
I don't think they are unpronouncable, but hard to
remember, definitely, especially if you play for a long time
in one sitting and end up w/a bunch of new ones to remember
at once, or if ya come back after a long time away only to
find it hard to remember which was which.
Leo
 
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Julie d'Aubigny <kali.magdalene@comcast.net> wrote in message news:<4181D09E.7F826A36@comcast.net>...
>
> Yeah, 'cause names like Caius Cosades, Nibani Maesa, Ra'Virr, and the
> like are so impossible to recall.
>
> > There were exceptions, of course, especially when it came to main
> > characters and important places. But the vast majority of the side


Exactly what part of the sentence "there are exceptions, of course,
especially when it came to main characters" do you *not* understand?
Your logic is utterly flawed. I never claimed that every single
Morrowind NPCs have names that are impossible to remember. So there's
little point in you flaunting the names of a few famous main
characters.


> > quests, people simply said "the guy who (blah) (blah)" or the shrine
> > where (blah) (blah)".
>
> Like, no one ever remembered the name Addamasartus? Or places like
> Falasmaryon?
>

Again, your simple-minded interpretation of my message is
dumbfounding. I never said, nor implied, that no single person has
ever remembered these names. The point was that the names were simply
hard to remember for most people, not IMPOSSIBLE to remember by
everyone. Any person with half a brain could understand what I was
saying, I suspect even *you*.


>
> I never had this problem, but while I played Morrowind twice, I
> apparently didn't play the same game you did.
>

No, apparently you did not. The game plays quite differently when
you're sitting in that high and mighty chair of yours.
 
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Troll <newstroll@shaw.ca> wrote in message news:<a1jgd.47447$%k.46848@pd7tw2no>...
>
> Of course! It would add so much to the atmosphere of a game to cross
> swords with the dreaded fighter-mage Mike Johnson, or the Goblin King
> Bill Hancock....
>


Well, you *could* give them names like that if you were a moron.

Alternatively, you could use names that are no less exotic, but still
easy to remember. Names like Dupre, Shamino, Iolo, Minsc, Tarzak,
Frodo, Kulgan, Gandalf, Milamber, and so forth. Too many names that
are too difficult to remember, like those in the Elder Scrolls games,
tend to take away from the immersion factor. IMHO, of course.
 
G

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"Julie d'Aubigny" <kali.magdalene@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:41817A21.D53298B7@comcast.net...
> Edward Cowling wrote:
> >
> > "Opticreep" <opticreep@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:9e1f277e.0410280336.31d84096@posting.google.com...
> > >
> > > Here's a hint: If the name is unpronounceable by an adult
American,
> > > then you should probably choose a simpler name. Frodo. Gandalf.
> > > Kulgan. Arthur. I'd even settle for a John Smith. But enough
with
> > > all the "Deaxythol Arsthruoxal".
> > >
> >
> > The people I had no problem with, but the Daedric shrines
> > were/are a nightmare.
> >
> > Ahhh, I've found aaalllleeeggghhh shrine, but I've been sent to
> > aaallleeejjjjhhh shrine........... arghhhhhhh :)
>
> The Daedric ruins had names that almost have a rhythmic quality to
them.

I found that also with the names of quite a lot of Ashlander Dunmer -
tending to have long and complicated but eminently pronounceable names.

> Now, the Dwemer ruins...those were a pain. Mzahnch was one of the
easier
> ones. :)

Well, ever since Tolkien, Dwarvish language has been extremely difficult
to pronounce, even harder to decipher, filled with far too many
consonants, and kept pretty secret among the Dwarves (who are also
invariably good at metalwork), in god only knows how many different
universes. Was there ever any reason to suppose Tamriel might be
different?

Jonathan.