Decisions: mid-range, intel, gaming, low noise Mk II

[varis]

Planning to put together a system that is nice and quiet, and looking for suggestions/pointers. Usage/performance considerations are something like:
-60% gaming
-10% video editing/workstation
-30% browsing/general (browsers always seem to max my RAM)

Parts I've listed so far (final!):

Fractal Design Define R5 White, windowed
Corsair RM550x
(re-use) Gigabyte Windforce Radeon 6850 <will be upgraded, low-end AMD Vega ? or ??>
i5-7600K
Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo
Corsair Vengeance LED DDR4 3000 MHz 16 Gt (2 x 8 Gt) 15-17-17-35 1.35V
(or ? Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 2400 MHz 16 Gt (2 x 8 Gt)
14-16-16-31 1.2V (or 2800 MHz CL 14-16-16-36))
Asus Prime Z270-K
(re-use) Samsung SH-S223L/BEBE DVD-RW
(re-use) Samsung 840 EVO 256GB
AND Samsung 960 EVO SSD 250 Gt M.2
<HDD, see below> (re-use)
(re-use) Soundblaster 2 Audigy ZS
(re-use) Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium Edition UK Retail <update to win10>
<Linux>

Threads for my previous system. I'm today building with a similar mentality, but want to get more performance. I'm on a more flexible budget nowadays and also due to the high success of the previous build I'm less concerned about noise and especially TDP. Bot were very low for the previous system and since I did quite little overclocking I even removed the CPU fan and the second case fan (it actually brought a bit of noise), and the system ran fine for more than 6 years! Also I have a fairly new laptop I can use for the days when I'm more into sitting in an arm chair, casual browsing and forum carpet bombing.

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/298615-31-decisions-range-intel-gaming
http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/300498-31-building-range-gaming-quiet-intel

Case: Want a quiet, quality case and Antec has been the market leader there. Minimalistic functional design is good and I don't need transparent windows and flashing LEDs. (I might be able to live with them though 🙂) I recall there was a brand named Lian-Li or something like that which also made good cases. I probably don't want a ton of fans so a rather basic cookie cutter case might do (was using Sonata previously) but also I'd like a functional case that is enjoyable to build with and upgrade. It's very unlikely I'll do much upgrading but at least there are some plans below.

PSU: A top tier PSU was the obvious choice back then and I doubt things are any different now. Has to be quiet and deliver enough power - most probably I don't need tons of watts, will have to calculate how much I get when I have the list of parts. Could possibly just continue using the Enermax Pro87+ 500W.

CPU: 7400 or 7500 from Intel would obviously fit the bill. Ryzen might be an option but not sure what I'd gain/lose, I understand they won't be available in quantity for a while though. Might go with a stock fan just for simplicity, if they are nowadays quiet enough?

Mobo: Something good quality and fairly mid-range, previously it's seemed I often end up with Asus boards.

Video: Will transfer this from the old PC for now and get a new one possibly in the autumn. TDP/noise vs performance is the key consideration here. Even more than price, though I'm shooting for mid-range parts. I will be running 2-3 monitors.

RAM: Would like 16GB but the prices are high currently. I take DDR4 is the option today and CAS latency must still be a consideration, otherwise I'm not sure what's the role of MHz nowadays.

SSD: Already bought this Samsung a while back, will use it for fast data/game installations. Will need to buy a new SSD up to today's performance standards to be the system drive.

HDD: There is an old HDD in the previous system which I could transfer and that one still has plenty of storage space. However it might already be too slow nowadays, any idea? I could just buy a new one when I run out of space.

Other: Alread have Windows 7 for the old system (on its old SSD) which I will need to transfer/reinstall. Will also install Linux to dual boot. And there is a nice but old Creative sound card which I can transfer over as well.

 

[Isokolon]

Quiet case -- I suggest Fractal Design, Thermaltake Suppressor or BeQuiet. Antecs are alright as well, not as good imo.
PSU -- if silence is important, go for a semi-passive one. Corsair RMx would be a fine choice, if the money is right. Would avoid the lower priced Seasonics, they tend to be noisy.
Usually 450-550W are enough for a modern system
CPU -- compared to an i5-7500/7400 I'd always go for a Ryzen. The 1500X is about the same price but you get twice as many threads.
The 1600 comes with 6 physical cores and 12 threads and isn't much more expensive than the 4c4t i5s
RAM: doubt prices will drop. In fact they just increased recently.

 

[1LiquidPC]

Built a system in a Fractal R5, H270 board, and i5 7400 for a relative a few months back. It's nearly inaudible with stock cooling for both case and CPU. Plenty of power for everyday use. Still, if you do encoding a decent amount of the time, a Ryzen based system is an excellent choice in same price range.

 

[varis]

Cases from FD seem nice! Would Fractal Design Define R5 Blackout Edition then be the one to go for or is there some advantage with the S model for example (hard to spot any significant difference)? The noise dampening material is a nice plus, I take it also comes with covers for all the unnecessary holes (fan slots) that don't have fans out of the box? (Doubt I'll need to add any fans to it.)

Guess mobo chipset should be H270 or Z270? Asus boards don't seem to have overly many PCI/e slots, up to a total of 4? Looks like my Soundblaster 2 Audigy ZS dating back 8 years is PCIe and still probably better than integrated sound, and another will be taken by an extra ethernet card if I transfer that, but that's probably all.

Might have to shell out the money (EDIT: maybe it's possible to do a free upgrade?) for win10 as well which is a bummer:

Microsoft won't end security updates for your Windows 7 PC until Jan. 14, 2020. By that time, Microsoft hopes you will have upgraded to a new version of its OS, whether that is Windows 8, 10, or beyond.

Wish everyone was on SteamOS already

 

[1LiquidPC]

Define R5 and S series should be similar, just no optical drive on the S, plus some others I'm sure. I got a great deal on mine from Newegg, $79.99 shipped back in January. Not blackout version though, and it has side window. Sound dampening and overall quality is excellent for the money at what I paid.

If going Intel route, H270 is fine if you don't plan to OC, which requires a K series CPU anyways. Z270 is needed for OC or using RAM over 2400 Mhz. These are the latest Intel chipsets. Ryzen B350 and X370 have basically same features minus Optane support if looking at AMD. Integrated audio has come a long way unless you are an audiophile and do a lot with it. I had to leave out my X-Fi Titanium HD when I went to X99 to fit cards in SLI. Now, I'm back to single card, but didn't feel it necessary to put X-Fi back in. Onboard NICs are great as well.

 

[varis]

Thanks guys! Looks like we've got a suggested set already, at least this is a very good starting point!

One key point is the choice of CPU platform, Intel has lower TDP and better game performance today, AMD better game performance in future (I hope) and an edge in heavily parallel workstation loads (movie editing? several Chrome windows?).

Also I'm a bit doubtful on adding the extra Samsung 960 EVO SSD 250 Gt M.2 - that would free the older EVO for data (video editing again, or game installations more likely) but this is an expensive add-on and I have to check if it's that much faster to justify the price. But lots of high-speed storage could be nice.

But eg. upgrading i5 7500->7600 would give up to 1/8 more CPU power and the cost would be less than a half of that extra SSD... So it's probably best to concentrate the moneys on CPU + GPU.

I think I definitely need to invest in upgraded storage (SSD or HDD) for storing my games - already have the old EVO SSD which is probably quite fine for the system disk anyway. But there is the choice of either or, and I can get the 3rd storage unit as a future upgrade.

A suggested plan could be:

860 EVO : system disk as that is hard to upgrade (new purchase)
840 EVO : data, game installs (pre-existing)
old HDD : have to put it somewhere, so all the old data or what doesn't fit anywhere (pre-existing)
new HDD : when all the above starts filling up, could take a bit (future upgrade)

 

[1LiquidPC]

I had a similar situation with SSD. My HTPC/casual 1080P gaming build is a Z170 based system, GTX 970, 16GB DDR4, with recently added 7600k. Also, I went from 850 EVO 250GB to 960 EVO M.2 250GB as primary drive and 850 moved to 2nd. For general use, browsing, ect. 960 is not really faster. It needs specific software loads to show the full potential.

I would also consider using money towards better CPU or GPU. A larger HDD would be helpful for storing more games as 250GB goes quick, but SSD decreases load times considerably, that said.

 

[Isokolon]

Honestly I'd go with AMD
If you were to get an i7, things are different
But i5s with 4threads and clocks at similar levels of the Ryzen 5s are Just overpriced imo and don't offer much benefits.
Also I highly doubt that a locked i5 really has an edge in games due to it's limitations in modern games, that usually scale well over 6-8 threads.
In editing you're looking at a massive time boost. Like really massive. The 6core AMDs manage according to some people who got one to save up to 40% time compared to an i7, this difference only gets bigger to an i5. It's something to consider when talking about tpd, although thb at today's energy prices the differences are minimal.
If a kWh is 0.2$, a 100W CPU needs 10h to reach that, a 50W 20h
So if you were running the CPU at full speed for 10h a day you'd save 36$\year compared to a 50W CPU.
Realistically I'd be surprised if an i5 would actually save you more than 10$\year

As for the R5: the blackout edition uses black screws. That's the difference.
It doesn't come with dust filters for the too vents, if you open them. The Thermaltake Suppressor does. But they aren't really necessary unless you go liquid cooling.
The Define S/C cases by Fractal Design come without a 5'25 optical drive bay.
The stock fans are sufficient, all holes are covered by default. Adding one extra fan depending on your GPU or pressure preference might be worth it but isn't necessary.

I'm unsure why you'd need a 2nd Ethernet card?

 

[varis]

2nd NIC - always be prepared, I guess! Had it on the old one because I thought I might route some traffic (eg. at LAN parties) - but I could easily get a separate router/firewall box for that. Also some mobos have 2 interfaces out of the box I think. Also you could use it for troubleshooting if/when you have problems with the primary interface.

I didn't realize today's games can already utilize 6-8 cores. Many seem to run a monolithic process still and I doubt that the average game at Steam sales scales too well. Depends on what kind of technology the prominent game engines proliferate etc. For parallel applications the 12 vs 4 cores is obviously a massive benefit. Will have to research the issue deeper!

Thanks for bringing up the financial side of TDP. I previously calculated that the Gold PSU has saved me a good bunch of money although we're talking apparently minimal differences.

My marginal cost per kWh is 12.29 cents and if we assume a difference in actual TDP of 20W and the CPU is typically run at 50% power (so boiling down to 10W), 4 hours per 5 days per week, netting annually about 10 kWh (taking a 2 week break just for the convenience of calculation 😉), or 1.22 euros saved. When you calculate that over a period of 5 years and discount years 2 to 5 at 10% rate, the Net Present Value of total savings is a whopping 5.09 euros! And that is only taking the first 5 years into account, though arguably it is likely that I'm already looking for an upgrade by that time.

Yeah - not really a lot in the bigger scheme of things although it's a small factor still. My main concern with TDP is easiness of cooling, and consequently noise and stability.

All quality comments so far, thanks! I'll need to research a bit the RAM performance and mobo options. Blackout was interesting as the case since it's also 15 euros cheaper in the store that I'm using as the first reference. Dust filters are strongly preferred, but as said I'll probably only need the default vents/fans.

 

[varis]

I've updated the list of parts. Feeling that it makes sense to go with a fairly beefy setup right now. 512GB of SSD + what I have left on the old HDD should last me a while.

The Ryzen CPUs sound great and apparently the stock cooler is good. However it seems the two brands are tied for gaming CPUs. My diet goes quite a bit beyond GTA & Battlefield so there is not so much benefit from Ryzen. Still waiting to get more feedback/opinions on the gaming subforum.

I'm thinking 7600K for the CPU now. Overclocking is not a pressing consideration, only a remote future possibility for me. I value low TDP and system stability. However 7600K would be well suited for that - how much benefit would Z270 bring and I suppose H270 is also well suited for overclocking?

Also I'll need to find a good CPU cooler for the i5 since it apparently doesn't even have a stock one. Is the Hyper 212 still a popular contender?

A guide linked on the forums here says that you can just do a clean Win10 install with the Win7 key, just have to find that one then 🙂

Any opinion on the RAM options? (Was looking for something suitable for i5, will have to cross-check with the mobo compatibility.)

 

[1LiquidPC]

The H270 doesn't have OC support, only Z270 or Z170(if UEFI is updated for Kaby Lake support) for 1151 CPUs. Cooler depends on if you intend to OC in the future. I have a Cryorig C7 on my 7600k now in a small Silverstone FT03-Mini ITX case. Its ok for stock, but a bit noisy. I have an Ncase M1 on order for case upgrade. Also bought a Be Quiet! Dark Rock TF based on reviews. Plan on OCing when everything comes in.

A Win7 key did work for Win10 clean install before, but not sure now since the upgrade offer ended. Regarding Ryzen, features are quite similar and you are getting more cores and threads for same $. AMD 1600x is 6 core/12 thread and cost about the same as 7600k(4 core/4 thread). For RAM, always some sales somewhere. I'm running GSkill TridentZ 3200 Mhz CL16 with my i5. 16GB kit cost me $105.

 

[varis]

Z270-P seems to have nice features, only 3.1 USB is missing, but in terms of expansion slots and the M.2 slots - not sure if I'll ever upgrade with Optane or 3rd SSD though 😛

https://www.asus.com/Motherboards/PRIME-Z270-P/

3.1 looks interesting though, not just for being 5 Gbps faster:

"When used with the Type-C connection, things get really interesting for 3.1. The 100W of PD v2.0 is enough to power and charge full sized notebooks, which means the proprietary AC port may soon be replaced by this universal alternative. With 4 data lanes, USB 3.1 Type-C can even carry DisplayPort and HDMI video signals, further adding to its ubiquity. Again, one port to rule them all."

H270-PRO has no OC and the 2nd M.2 slot is slower. Z270-K has everything but is pricier. And these two for some weird reason replace PCIe slots with 2x PCI slots... not even my old 'puter has any PCI cards I think!

On OC boards the memory is locked down to 2133MHz unless you OC...

Z270-K should leave one PCIe slot free with all my planned hardware now, sounds like a deal. Unless those various "gaming" boards offer something? Besides adding 3D printed parts... some of them are just slightly more pricey.

 

[varis]

RAM may be the tricky part... my 'regular' store quotes +2 weeks delivery time for RAM and not every exact module is certified by Asus (often different sets / sizes are found in the table)

 

[varis]

Final parts list! Please check in case of last minute ... things.

Still focusing on the actual RAM option; will go with what is quickly available from my local store (everything else is off the shelf same day stuff). RAM not certified by Asus in exact same model is not even worth considering.

Might end up trying overclocking 2-3 years down the road, did this only with the ATI GPU slider on the old box. Need to balance against system stability, noise, potential for data loss and even component damage. Bottleneck is maybe the board's VRM which I take doesn't have a real heatsink unlike more upmarket boards of the same set.

Think the 212 Evo should fit easily - previous box has an older generation of this cooler, and it was quite nice. This board is not specialized gaming/OC board but there seems to be some room to the condensators on the side. And layout doesn't seem too tight for components.

I suppose I need to buy silver paste for the cooler? I'd have one tube that is lying around, I think, but it's 6-7 years old, not safe any more?

 

[Isokolon]

The hyper 212 will only let you oc the CPU mildly
The included thermal.is good enough though

 

[varis]

Thanks. The 212 has a great reputation, installs fairly easily and is very popular. Great entry-level cooler as far as I see, but I hear there are cheaper options nowadays. Some easy and conservative overclocks without much noise is what I'm after so it should fit the bill.

According to this graph you can win about 2 degrees with silver paste. Quite a minimal difference but then again the cost is equally minimal and there are no hidden costs such as difficult installation or noise added, so it's a bit of a no-brainer to go with Arctic MX-4.

https://img.purch.com/o/aHR0cDovL21lZGlhLmJlc3RvZm1pY3JvLmNvbS82L0gvMzk2ODA5L29yaWdpbmFsLzAzLUFpci1Db29saW5nLUxvdy1QcmVzc3VyZS5wbmc=