News Delidded Ryzen 7 5800X3D CPU Runs 10 Degrees Celsius Cooler

[Admin]

The Ryzen 7 5800X3D looks very tricky to delid, but the benefits of 10 degrees Celcius, lower max temps, and lower power consumption are enticing.

Delidded Ryzen 7 5800X3D CPU Runs 10 Degrees Celsius Cooler : Read more

 

[Alvar "Miles" Udell]

Madness has followed up to say that they added Conductonaut compound to the dies and replaced the IHS.

So does this serve as confirmation that AMD is now using lesser quality solder on their chips?

 

[rluker5]

AMD is enabling PCIe5 on their upcoming products. I'm guessing they will use it as a selling point.
How long before the 5800X3d falls slightly behind the 12600k in GPU bound gaming scenarios just like my Haswell/H97 setup with a mining bust RX 6800 has because Z97 only has PCIe3 and doesn't support rebar due to not being named on some driver checklist, or not getting the code in a bios update?

And isn't the cache held on the CPU by the same forces that hold layers of clay together that can be loosened by water? If I had one that thing would stay glued/soldered just to eliminate the chance of contamination and shifting.

 

[helper800]

AMD is enabling PCIe5 on their upcoming products. I'm guessing they will use it as a selling point.
How long before the 5800X3d falls slightly behind the 12600k in GPU bound gaming scenarios

You can run a 3090 ti on pcie3 x16 and its the same performance as on pcie5 x16 give or take 2%.

 

[rluker5]

You can run a 3090 ti on pcie3 x16 and its the same performance as on pcie5 x16 give or take 2%.

You are just mentioning what is necessary.
And is true only in many games so long as they don't benefit from rebar/sam or you are framerate limited: AMD Smart Access Memory Tested, Benchmarked | TechSpot Sam and rebar should both also work on PCIe3, but they don't and won't just like whatever new thing won't work on gen4.
But even 2-5% will be larger than the benefit of a faster, yet still 100% GPU bound CPU.
You know they have to compare these things on 1080p low, 720p to see which is faster they are so GPU bound.

PCIe4 has been made a selling point. I'm just saying PCIe5 will as well. Or else why would anybody buy a Zen4 that isn't a Threadripper or Epyc?

 

[helper800]

You are just mentioning what is necessary.
And is true only in many games so long as they don't benefit from rebar/sam or you are framerate limited: AMD Smart Access Memory Tested, Benchmarked | TechSpot Sam and rebar should both also work on PCIe3, but they don't and won't just like whatever new thing won't work on gen4.
But even 2-5% will be larger than the benefit of a faster, yet still 100% GPU bound CPU.
You know they have to compare these things on 1080p low, 720p to see which is faster they are so GPU bound.

PCIe4 has been made a selling point. I'm just saying PCIe5 will as well. Or else why would anybody buy a Zen4 that isn't a Threadripper or Epyc?

PCIe 4 or higher is not relevant to GPU performance. Unless you have a very limited GPU, as far as, memory bandwidth goes there is little (less than 2% which is run to run variance) to no benefit above PCIe gen 3 speed.

 

[rluker5]

PCIe 4 or higher is not relevant to GPU performance. Unless you have a very limited GPU, as far as, memory bandwidth goes there is little (less than 2% which is run to run variance) to no benefit above PCIe gen 3 speed.

In terms of theoretical bandwidth saturation limitations I agree with you, as I agreed with the last guy on this topic.
But there is valid practical proof in the real world that many games the performance difference is 5% and more because of other features that have been attached exclusively to the newer PCIe standard. I referenced some of that in the link in my last post.
And in regards to my original point: how much improvement does a slightly faster CPU see over a slightly slower one in a completely GPU bound gaming scenario as most would encounter when dealing with current or next gen AMD or Intel? would it be 5%?
My original point is that there will likely be some feature that improves GPU bound gaming performance (maybe direct storage?) that will come out shortly after AMD introduces their next gen CPUs and GPUs that will both have PCIe5. And even if the 5800X3D were 1000x as fast as the 12600k in games, because it will be run GPU bound, it will be slower by however much that feature speeds the GPU. Just like it will be slower than every CPU that can outpace the next gen GPUs at next gen game settings while also running PCIe5.

But I could be wrong. Question is whether or not AMD, Intel or Nvidia will come up with a reason to upgrade to PCIe5 hardware. So far AMD has come up with 2 to upgrade to gen4 in regards to GPU communication.

 

[Globespy]

What exactly were the "impressive results" in terms of performance gains? Running a bit cooler is expected with delidded/LM, but not worth it unless the FPS performance improvements are in line with the risk involved. If we're talking a handful of extra frames, why bother?

 

[Ogotai]

Or else why would anybody buy a Zen4 that isn't a Threadripper or Epyc?

um probably the obvious reason, cost. i was looking at picking up Threadripper a while ago, i could use the PCIe lanes that it had, but due to cost, i didnt. instead i kept my 5900x, and just shuffled some hardware around. one of the reasons i kind of miss the X99 system i upgraded from, the pci e lanes it had.

 

[helper800]

In terms of theoretical bandwidth saturation limitations I agree with you, as I agreed with the last guy on this topic.
But there is valid practical proof in the real world that many games the performance difference is 5% and more because of other features that have been attached exclusively to the newer PCIe standard. I referenced some of that in the link in my last post.
And in regards to my original point: how much improvement does a slightly faster CPU see over a slightly slower one in a completely GPU bound gaming scenario as most would encounter when dealing with current or next gen AMD or Intel? would it be 5%?
My original point is that there will likely be some feature that improves GPU bound gaming performance (maybe direct storage?) that will come out shortly after AMD introduces their next gen CPUs and GPUs that will both have PCIe5. And even if the 5800X3D were 1000x as fast as the 12600k in games, because it will be run GPU bound, it will be slower by however much that feature speeds the GPU. Just like it will be slower than every CPU that can outpace the next gen GPUs at next gen game settings while also running PCIe5.

But I could be wrong. Question is whether or not AMD, Intel or Nvidia will come up with a reason to upgrade to PCIe5 hardware. So far AMD has come up with 2 to upgrade to gen4 in regards to GPU communication.

I agree that there is a lot of PCIe bus speed that is not being utilized and that it would be prudent of AMD, Intel, and Nvidia to make use of it in some way to pull ahead. In terms of resizable bar and SAM there are more than a few cases where they cause FPS regression instead of small gains. That is not to say that they are not overall useful features to have turned on as they have an aggregate benefit to FPS across many games. I was trying to point out that PCIe being more fast has little to no benefit that is sizable enough to drive a purchasing decision, not to say it wont in the future.

 

[-Fran-]

But I could be wrong. Question is whether or not AMD, Intel or Nvidia will come up with a reason to upgrade to PCIe5 hardware. So far AMD has come up with 2 to upgrade to gen4 in regards to GPU communication.

Well, you are most likely wrong as nVidia kept PCIe4 for their next lineup, same as Intel, and AMD is the only one reportedly going to use PCIe5 in their next gen of GPUs.

The jump from PCIe3 to PCIe4 may be worth it (big IF), but it looks like PCIe5 is completely not justified yet. It's really expensive to certificate them for PCIe5 and later PCIe6 when you're not really going to use neither the features nor bandwidth.

Regards.

 

[wifiburger]

lol all of that for 10C ? what a waste

 

[helper800]

lol all of that for 10C ? what a waste

One man's trash is another man's treasure.

 

[-Fran-]

lol all of that for 10C ? what a waste

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ysb25vsNBQI




Regards.

 

[edzieba]

So does this serve as confirmation that AMD is now using lesser quality solder on their chips?

Or just that "Solder > TIM" is more an oversimplified meme than a universal truism reflected in actual testing. But selling memes is easier than selling reality (see: every single stick of ram sold with a cosmetic heatsink) so "our CPUs have solder!" sell better than CPUs with TIM regardless of actual performance.

 

[d0x360]

Well, you are most likely wrong as nVidia kept PCIe4 for their next lineup, same as Intel, and AMD is the only one reportedly going to use PCIe5 in their next gen of GPUs.

The jump from PCIe3 to PCIe4 may be worth it (big IF), but it looks like PCIe5 is completely not justified yet. It's really expensive to certificate them for PCIe5 and later PCIe6 when you're not really going to use neither the features nor bandwidth.

Regards.

I have to disagree here...

I upgraded to a 7900x although I haven't built it yet, I'm waiting on more info about delidding or at least for derbauer's thing that covers the exposed pieces of the die (noctua is also making one, both for December release)

Anyways the reason I wanted PCIE Gen 5 is because I can run a GPU on an x8 link instead of x16 but still not have an issue with bandwidth.

The reason for running at x8 is because I bought the Asus ROG Crosshair x670e extreme motherboard which has 2 m.2 slots on the motherboard then a card to add 1 more and another card to add another 2.

So I plan on having all 5 m.2 slots filled and I'm going to use 2 4TB drives and run those in Raid for gaming (if I can add the 1 other addon card to that array I will) then I'll have Windows on a 500 gig m.2 drive and that would leave me with 1 more drive that I would add to the array if possible and if not possible it would be a 2nd drive for less demanding games when it comes loading or asset streaming.

I don't technically need it today but with direct storage 1.1 and on GPU decompression of assets... It should be a nice performance boost along with absurdly fast loading speeds even on mid range m.2 drives.

On my 5800x system I used a gen4 WB Black m.2 for games because it was the fastest up until recently.

So basically it's all about speed and being able to take lanes from the GPU without sacrifice.

 

[-Fran-]

I have to disagree here...

I upgraded to a 7900x although I haven't built it yet, I'm waiting on more info about delidding or at least for derbauer's thing that covers the exposed pieces of the die (noctua is also making one, both for December release)

Anyways the reason I wanted PCIE Gen 5 is because I can run a GPU on an x8 link instead of x16 but still not have an issue with bandwidth.

The reason for running at x8 is because I bought the Asus ROG Crosshair x670e extreme motherboard which has 2 m.2 slots on the motherboard then a card to add 1 more and another card to add another 2.

So I plan on having all 5 m.2 slots filled and I'm going to use 2 4TB drives and run those in Raid for gaming (if I can add the 1 other addon card to that array I will) then I'll have Windows on a 500 gig m.2 drive and that would leave me with 1 more drive that I would add to the array if possible and if not possible it would be a 2nd drive for less demanding games when it comes loading or asset streaming.

I don't technically need it today but with direct storage 1.1 and on GPU decompression of assets... It should be a nice performance boost along with absurdly fast loading speeds even on mid range m.2 drives.

On my 5800x system I used a gen4 WB Black m.2 for games because it was the fastest up until recently.

So basically it's all about speed and being able to take lanes from the GPU without sacrifice.

https://www.techpowerup.com/review/nvidia-geforce-rtx-4090-pci-express-scaling/28.html

Regards.