Dell precision workstation upgrade with i7?

TwinDenis

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Hello, I have a dell precision t3600 desktop workstation with an xeon e-1620, 8gb ram that came with it and upgraded to gtx980 from quadro 600, I was looking into upgrading the pc to a gaming pc gradually, I get lower fps in some games and I have heard that it is caused by the game being cpu dependant so I was hoping if I could upgrade to a i7 cpu from my xeon on this motherboard. If you ask about what motherboard I have, well it is obviously manufactured by dell so it is the same as my pc model and came with it.
so my main question is if it is compatible with the i7 4ghz+ models that come out on the market right now.
 


TwinDenis,

While it seems an i7 should work in a Precision T3600- the E5-1620 (LGA2011, 4-core@ 3.5 /3.8GHz)

http://ark.intel.com/products/64621/Intel-Xeon-Processor-E5-1620-10M-Cache-3_60-GHz-0_0-GTs-Intel-QPI

> is more or less the equivalent to an i7-4820K:

http://ark.intel.com/products/77781/Intel-Core-i7-4820K-Processor-10M-Cache-up-to-3_90-GHz?q=i7-4820K

> I'm not entirely sure. Looking at Passmark baselines, all 203 tested fsystems have Xeon E5's. One of the specification I notice is that the i7 can use 1866 RAM whereas the E5 uses 1600 ECC, so there may be a motherboard incompatibility.

In any event if it were possible you would gain +200MHz- at this level probably at or below the minimum that makes a noticeable difference and certainly it can't be overclocked. Also, as your system has ECC RAM that would have to be changed.

My suggestion is to keep the E5-1620- and put the upgrade into a really good GPU. Xeons are very good at games because they are calculation oriented- moving polygons- and don't have integrated graphics. They are also slightly understressed for stability in long slogs. I've had an HP z420 with an E5-1620 for two years and never a single BSOD even during long rendering sessions. There are T3600 on Passmark with excellent graphics scores using high end gaming cards:

High graphics scores for Precision T3600:

1. GTX Titan > 2D=815 and 3D=8423
2. GTX 970 > 2D=538 and 3D=7250
3. Radeon HD 7970 / R9 280X > 2D=507 and 3D=5434
4. GTX 760 > 2D=761 and 3D=4997
5. GTX 760 > 2D=822 and 3D=4913

For contrast, the best graphics score for a T3600 with a Quadro 600 is 2D=552 and 3D=1975. The 1975 score is actually better than I'd thought, but it's not going to be a screamer in any game.

I'll bet a GTX 980ti would light up some pixels!

Cheers,

BambiBoom

HP z420 (2015) > Xeon E5-1660 v2 six-core @ 3.7 / 4.0GHz > 32GB DDR3 ECC 1866 RAM > Quadro K4200 (4GB) > Intel 730 480GB (9SSDSC2BP480G4R5) > Western Digital Black WD1003FZEX 1TB> M-Audio 192 sound card > 600W PSU> Logitech z2300 > Linksys AE3000 USB WiFi > 2X Dell Ultrasharp U2715H (2560 X 1440) > Windows 7 Professional 64 >
[ Passmark Rating = 5064 > CPU= 13989 / 2D= 819 / 3D= 4596 / Mem= 2772 / Disk= 4555] [Cinebench R15 > CPU = 1014 OpenGL= 126.59 FPS] 7.8.15

HP z420 (2013) > Xeon E5-1620 four core @ 3.6 /3.8GHz > 24GB DDR3 ECC 1600 RAM > AMD V4900 (1GB) > Seagate 500GB > Linksys WMP600N WiFi
[Passmark system rating = 2372 / CPU = 9001 / 2D= 712 / 3D= 1353/ Mem= 2261 / Disk= 712]








 


TwinDenis,

While it seems an i7 should work in a Precision T3600- the E5-1620 (LGA2011, 4-core@ 3.5 /3.8GHz)

http://ark.intel.com/products/64621/Intel-Xeon-Processor-E5-1620-10M-Cache-3_60-GHz-0_0-GTs-Intel-QPI

> is more or less the equivalent to an i7-4820K:

http://ark.intel.com/products/77781/Intel-Core-i7-4820K-Processor-10M-Cache-up-to-3_90-GHz?q=i7-4820K

> I'm not entirely sure. Looking at Passmark baselines, all 203 tested fsystems have Xeon E5's. One of the specification I notice is that the i7 can use 1866 RAM whereas the E5 uses 1600 ECC, so there may be a motherboard incompatibility.

In any event if it were possible you would gain +200MHz- at this level probably at or below the minimum that makes a noticeable difference and certainly it can't be overclocked. Also, as your system has ECC RAM that would have to be changed.

My suggestion is to keep the E5-1620- and put the upgrade into a really good GPU. Xeons are very good at games because they are calculation oriented- moving polygons- and don't have integrated graphics. They are also slightly understressed for stability in long slogs. I've had an HP z420 with an E5-1620 for two years and never a single BSOD even during long rendering sessions. There are T3600 on Passmark with excellent graphics scores using high end gaming cards:

High graphics scores for Precision T3600:

1. GTX Titan > 2D=815 and 3D=8423
2. GTX 970 > 2D=538 and 3D=7250
3. Radeon HD 7970 / R9 280X > 2D=507 and 3D=5434
4. GTX 760 > 2D=761 and 3D=4997
5. GTX 760 > 2D=822 and 3D=4913

For contrast, the best graphics score for a T3600 with a Quadro 600 is 2D=552 and 3D=1975. The 1975 score is actually better than I'd thought, but it's not going to be a screamer in any game.

I'll bet a GTX 980ti would light up some pixels!

Cheers,

BambiBoom

HP z420 (2015) > Xeon E5-1660 v2 six-core @ 3.7 / 4.0GHz > 32GB DDR3 ECC 1866 RAM > Quadro K4200 (4GB) > Intel 730 480GB (9SSDSC2BP480G4R5) > Western Digital Black WD1003FZEX 1TB> M-Audio 192 sound card > 600W PSU> Logitech z2300 > Linksys AE3000 USB WiFi > 2X Dell Ultrasharp U2715H (2560 X 1440) > Windows 7 Professional 64 >
[ Passmark Rating = 5064 > CPU= 13989 / 2D= 819 / 3D= 4596 / Mem= 2772 / Disk= 4555] [Cinebench R15 > CPU = 1014 OpenGL= 126.59 FPS] 7.8.15

HP z420 (2013) > Xeon E5-1620 four core @ 3.6 /3.8GHz > 24GB DDR3 ECC 1600 RAM > AMD V4900 (1GB) > Seagate 500GB > Linksys WMP600N WiFi
[Passmark system rating = 2372 / CPU = 9001 / 2D= 712 / 3D= 1353/ Mem= 2261 / Disk= 712]








 

TwinDenis

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I already got an gtx980, the simple edition for single display, will this do for high end games?
 


TwinDenis,

I think a GTX 980 running on the E5-1620 (the first two cores run at 3.8GHz) should do very nicely. There are no E5-1620 /GTX 980 systems tested on Passmark, but there is an E5-1620 / GTX 780 system:

Lenovo S30> E5-1620 / GTX 780 / 16GB / Seagate ST480 SSD "

Rating = 3708 / CPU = 7138 / 2D = 683 / 3D = 7916 /Mem = 2284 / Disk= 2545

> and that 3D score is a very good sign. An E5-1620 v3 (3.5 / 3.9GHz) with a GTX 980 (HP z444) scored 3D= 10055- which is getting close to a Titan score. so your 980 on the T3600 should be somewhere in bettween.

A couple of performance suggestions: If you're using Win 7, my suggestion is to first try using only the Basic Theme- it's ugly but I found Aero /transparency robs about 20% of the 3D performance. Also, set Power Options in Control Panel to "Performance" and set the system for no hibernation- the monitor , HD, and system never "sleep". Run Passmark Performance Test and record the figures: Rating, CPU, 2D, 3D, Mem, Disk, then if you want to check if these items improve the performance, rerun with a theme, power option, hibernation, and etc.

Cheers,

BambiBoom
 

TwinDenis

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when I do change power options to performance mode my fans make a noise, not from the speed but from the fans contact when rapidly turning, I mean it is like a bzzz. I think it fixes it when I do performance mode and inside it I configure the fans on passive state instead of active. But overall I wish to run witcher 3 without any problems and in some cases I do, in cutscenes it lags but I found out it is because of the ingame settings of a config file that setted it by default to 30 fps when on movies. So in general it runs smoothly but games like tera which is online it lags sometimes, I mean it loses fps because it is cpu heavy. In an beta game called landmark I get lower fps and the counter says it is because of the cpu but overall I think it is the game that was not optimized. I have done every basic think about optimization on the level of fragmentation and such.

Thanks
 

TwinDenis

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After all this time of testing, trial and error, I have to say even with numerous installations, bios config experiments and New/Old drivers/OS, it stutters very much in games, even on lol or heroes of the storm, where in lol it is getting choppy fps when a character enters the screen by itself from the sides, and not by me moving the camera over them, but this is the small fraction of the problem so yeah... what should I do?
 
"After all this time of testing, trial and error, I have to say even with numerous installations, bios config experiments and New/Old drivers/OS, it stutters very much in games, even on lol or heroes of the storm, where in lol it is getting choppy fps when a character enters the screen by itself from the sides, and not by me moving the camera over them, but this is the small fraction of the problem so yeah... what should I do?"

TwinDenis,

Sorry you're having the troubles.

A. Can you list the complete current specification?

B. Latest BIOS?

C. How full is the OS application psrtition / drive?

In the meantime,

1. In Control Panel, check under Power Options that the setting is not "Balanced", but set to "High Performance"
2. Turn off Aero and transparency and run on Basic Theme.
3. Disable CPU and monitor hibernation.
4. Try gaming with hyperthreading disabled in BIOS.
5. Download (free 30 -day trial) and run Passmark Performance Test. If one of the scores is strangely low, this can narrow the problem down.
6. Do you have another GPU you can substitute? Even if you have to make the game settings low this might tell us somthing.

Are you seeing any image shearing?

Very odd, we'll hope it's the single magic setting. The last time I had a really serious performance drop - the CPU score dropped by 50%, the solution was item 1. in the list above. It was the results of an evil 3AM Tuesday Windows update. ever since that time I update and select manually.
 

TwinDenis

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I tried everything you said already, the only issue/report I encountered was crashing in passmark the first 3 seconds or less with the error "pagefault_in_nonpaged_area" or something like that. It restarted afterwards. Here are some more tests I have done excluding SSD because its brand new.
Using speccy:
http://s12.postimg.org/5aql84dt9/MA_Specs.png
HDD info: http://s29.postimg.org/oa6h7937r/burdeelllalallo.png
HDD benchmark 1: http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/attachments/hddddddddddddeeeeeeeejiiiiiin-png.71358/
HDD benchmark 2: http://s27.postimg.org/r5q03fu4z/pppppppppppppppppppppppppipi.png
Gpu test GPU-Z 1: http://img.techpowerup.org/160123/gpuu-uuu-uu-uuuuu-2.png
Gpu test GPU-Z 2: http://img.techpowerup.org/160123/scaaaaaaaaaaaaaaamjbb.png
GPU Afterburner Graph with vsync: http://img.techpowerup.org/160123/1111111111.png
Gpu Afterburner Graph without vsync:
part1: http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/attachments/one-png.71354/
part2: http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/attachments/two-png.71355/
part3: http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/attachments/three-png.71356/
part4: http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/attachments/four-png.71357/


Tried both default Bios Settings and Custom optimized for gaming, for example disabled: speedstep, hyperthread, turboboost and similar things (Like dell reliable memory or ECC).
 
TwinDenis,

You've been admirably methodical and may well have identified the problem.

It's useful that Passmark delivered the error message PAGE_FAULT_IN_NONPAGED_AREA

That error refers to a block of system memory that Windows reserves exclusively. There are paged and nonpaged pool files. The error means that memory in the nonpaged pool is beginning to fail.

Run memtest to identify the failing RAM or try running the system on one module at a time.

The behavior did make me think of memory errors, but in the GPU.

Let me know what happens.

Cheers,

BambiBoom

PS> A little light entertainment. Since the original thread, I bought and upgraded a T3500 to be my backup system. I'm thinking of selling the T5500 as I only use it for rendering binges.

The T3500 cost $53 + $24 shipping:

Precision T3500 (2011) (Original) Xeon W3530 4-core @ 2.8 /3.06GHz > 4GB (2X 2GB) DDR3-1333 ECC > GeForce 9800 GT (1GB)> WD Black 500GB
[[Passmark system rating = 1963, CPU = 4482 / 2D= 609 / 3D=805 / Mem= 1409 / Disk=1048]

The performance is actually quite good, but I always have to fuss so I made a game of the most improvement at the least cost:

CPU: $60
RAM: $43
GPU, RAID controller, Drives left over from upgrading the T5500
______________________
Total = $185

Results were very good:

Precision T3500 (2011) (Rev 2) Xeon X5677 4-core @ 3.47 /3.73GHz > 12GB (6X 2GB) DDR3-1333 ECC > Quadro 4000 (2GB) > PERC 6/i +Seagate 300GB 15K SAS ST3300657SS + WD Black 500GB > 525W PSU> Windows 7 Professional 64-bit > 2X Dell 19" LCD
[Passmark system rating = 2751, CPU = 7236 / 2D= 658 / 3D=2020 / Mem= 1875 / Disk=1221]

Plus I can sell the original CPU and GPU for about $50, so the expenditure is about $140.





 

TwinDenis

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Actually I own a t3600, anyway how can I run a memtest?
I have tried 2 diffrent gpus, it cant be it.
Is it possible that the ram is to blame?
I ran dell diagnostics through test as well as windows mem test, all passed.
I also have SSD and the system is clean installed. Tested both ssd and hdd.
 


TwinDenis,

I'm a bit confused as you write: "Actually I own a t3600, anyway how can I run a memtest?" Well, I suppose properly this is called "MemTest" but it is for Windows systems and will test ECC on a Dell Precision. Also: "I ran dell diagnostics through test as well as windows mem test, all passed." and then, "Is it possible that the ram is to blame?"

As mentioned in the last post, the Passmark running error = the only specific fault indicator thus far- suggests a fault in the nonpaged pool files, so yes, I think the problem is with the system RAM.

The next step is to run the system on one RAM module at a time. If that test seems to provoke a lot of disk swapping, try running in Safe Mode to minimize the disk loading as that latency may be confused with memory lag.

It's possible:

1. That the memory is failing intermittently under certain kinds of stress.
2. That the games don't like the ECC parity checking as that introduces a latency. Do you have any non-ECC RAM that you can try? Don't mix them though - try either /or exclusively.

Do you get the display problems anywhere other than games?

Curioser and curiouser.

Cheers,

BambiBoom



 

TwinDenis

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I cannot try another, the only option is to buy but if I do , I would do a memory upgrade instead with the best qualities for a ram for this system to use as gaming more, since I dont do cad but some 3d. For us cad is architectural and 3d modeling is something more complicated than that. But besides that, is it because it is a workstation that I cannot play games properly?... some people say so, or is it because of some hardware issue? I take you are directed towards the ram modules being the culprit, if one of them is faulty then all of them should be swapped to a new kit with lower latency if possible, since it is an upgrade I am willing to buy a better one that is best for games and compatible with my system. I use this pc for home mostly, so no ECC should be used for me, but this is for you since you know better.
Is there any test you could recommend me to by the way in order to know if it is worth buying a new ram kit?
anyway as you understand I get choppy framerates, usually when something enters my screen lets say in league of legends, when I dont pan but instead something enters my screen either it could be player/character or ai/bot. Everything related to the character that is entering the screen stutters/has low framerates.
 
" I cannot try another, the only option is to buy but if I do , I would do a memory upgrade instead with the best qualities for a ram for this system to use as gaming more, since I dont do cad but some 3d. For us cad is architectural and 3d modeling is something more complicated than that. But besides that, is it because it is a workstation that I cannot play games properly?... some people say so, or is it because of some hardware issue? I take you are directed towards the ram modules being the culprit, if one of them is faulty then all of them should be swapped to a new kit with lower latency if possible, since it is an upgrade I am willing to buy a better one that is best for games and compatible with my system. I use this pc for home mostly, so no ECC should be used for me, but this is for you since you know better.
Is there any test you could recommend me to by the way in order to know if it is worth buying a new ram kit?
anyway as you understand I get choppy framerates, usually when something enters my screen lets say in league of legends, when I dont pan but instead something enters my screen either it could be player/character or ai/bot. Everything related to the character that is entering the screen stutters/has low framerates."


TwinDenis,

The only basis for diagnosing the trouble is the error message from Passmark. That message still makes me believe that there is a problem with one of the RAM modules. Did you try running the system with only one module? I would do that before anything else. That test will eliminate an impending RAM failure as the cause.

However, the situation is a bit different than I imagined. If the stuttering is related to only one action in one game, after testing with each single RAM module, perhaps you can remove LoL (if that's the one), make a clean reinstallation of the game, and any updates possible. Also, if the characters are stored in a remote library on a disk, also renew those libraries and defragment all the systems disks (but not of course an SSD).

My thinking with the RAM is that the ECC parity check is slowing down the CPU to RAM swaps, so changing the memory from ECC to non-ECC will reduce that lag. But, this returns me to the error message of a possible failure.


Cheers,

BambiBoom






 

TwinDenis

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it happens in all games but in diffrent but similar forms, for instance in heroes of the storm it happens as constant choppy fps when the ai/minions start spawning and battle in lane, especially when people battle in team fights, so basically its happens in almost all games, even on starcraft2 offline mode when I hover over a character either ai or player.
I run on ssd now, I did clean install and everything (no point in repeating myself) drivers etc.
I would buy a non-ecc memory
Questions:
1) Adding a non-ecc memory would cause problems in my system?
2) Can ram affect that much in the flow of internal framerates? (the counter does not show fps drop but framerates do not show smoothly at all)
3) Can I use 2 sticks of 8gb each for further upgrade in the future to 2 more sticks if necessary?
4) How much CAS latency and how much mhz(up to 1600 for my xeon) is necessary for gaming?

ps: I blocked the reliable memory feature in bios and had no effect on my performance.
I also tried using this but did not work: http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/must-read-setfsb-o-c-game-problems-fixed.569893/

note that my system is not for OC. So everything is at stock and working properly even with the stick speeds.
 
" it happens in all games but in diffrent but similar forms, for instance in heroes of the storm it happens as constant choppy fps when the ai/minions start spawning and battle in lane, especially when people battle in team fights, so basically its happens in almost all games, even on starcraft2 offline mode when I hover over a character either ai or player.
I run on ssd now, I did clean install and everything (no point in repeating myself) drivers etc.
I would buy a non-ecc memory
Questions:
1) Adding a non-ecc memory would cause problems in my system?
2) Can ram affect that much in the flow of internal framerates? (the counter does not show fps drop but framerates do not show smoothly at all)
3) Can I use 2 sticks of 8gb each for further upgrade in the future to 2 more sticks if necessary?
4) How much CAS latency and how much mhz(up to 1600 for my xeon) is necessary for gaming?

ps: I blocked the reliable memory feature in bios and had no effect on my performance.
I also tried using this but did not work: http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/must-read-setfsb-o-c-game-problems-fixed.569893/

note that my system is not for OC. So everything is at stock and working properly even with the stick speeds."


TwinDenis,

A little change of direction.

It occurred to me that the problem may be lag of the LoL server. Try speedtest.net and see what the ping is running. If the ping is too high, fetching the new characters from the library is lagging. If the ping turns out to be over about 150ms, look into any background upload or download activity that be turned off- especially torrents which are uploading and downloading at the same time. Upload and download speeds should also be at least 500kb/s.

It would be great to find a solution that doesn't involve buying all new RAM.

Cheers,

BambiBoom


 

TwinDenis

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its no use to blame their servers because as told before, its offline mode sc2 and heroes of the storm along with other games too, its not a bad game, everyone can play those games except me properly.
So please let us resume.
I am not sure about passmark, lets test memory with another software as well.
I need answers for those questions above in case I have to search for ram kits to not make mistakes.
 

TwinDenis

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I tried running passmark again, it was removed and I cannot reinstall it whatsoever. Anyway, I deleted anything related to it and registry but it wont open. So anyway I used older versions and they had no issues with my pc, it is very weird to say the least.
 

TwinDenis

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Okay so I got the error again when trying to run burnintest by passmark.
Here is a screeshot with the error I get when starting up the software, without clicking anything, just by opening BurnInTest(same happened with performance test) all by passmark:
http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/attachments/img_20160201_124803-jpg.71792/
 


TwinDenis,

Please: Try running the system by trying one RAM module at a time.

Cheers,

BambiBoom
 

TwinDenis

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this is confusing, do you refer to the ram sticks?

ps: the motherboard is swapped , it had the same issue in the past.
So could it be the sticks? I dont mind buying more ram, thats why I asked the questions above.

"1) Adding a non-ecc memory would cause problems in my system?
2) Can ram affect that much in the flow of internal framerates? (the counter does not show fps drop but framerates do not show smoothly at all)
3) Can I use 2 sticks of 8gb each for further upgrade in the future to 2 more sticks if necessary?
4) How much CAS latency and how much mhz(up to 1600 for my xeon) is necessary for gaming?"
 


TwinDenis,

The PAGE_FAULT_IN_NONPAGED_AREA message means that there is RAM that is failing.

Take out all the RAM and put one stick in the first slot and start the system. If it doesn't start, try the next stick- always only one at a time. If it doesn't run on any one of the sticks, you only have to replace that one or two sticks. As the system runs in general, we know that you do not have to buy all new RAM.

If you don't have any result, then at least we know that the RAM is not the problem.

Looking around, there are a lot of reports of momentary stuttering and frame rate drops in LoL and these appear to happen on systems with very fast GPU's. The game is not keeping up with the GPU which may be a sync problem.

Suggestions from the Web:

1. Change from vsync to adaptive sync.
2. That the problem is the result of having two sound drivers active at the same time. If you are using a sound card, make sure that the integrated sound is disabled in BIOS.

Cheers,

BambiBoom


 

TwinDenis

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I did that one memory at a time thing and managed to break one of them, or at least it fell down, so basically its no use, I knew I shouldnt touch anything in there.
So when I managed to plug it back in I had my pc not loading, and popping diffrent errors, anyway it ends up that I wil buy new ram so please answer the questions above, should I get a g.skill trident kit of 2x8gb pack? I need to know, I am about to purchase it because it is out of stock.
My system sees 6gb now. So I now plugged it out to be safe.
Anyway I could buy this: G.Skill TridentX 16GB (2x8GB) DDR3-1600MHz Dual Kit (103$)
 


TwinDenis,

The T3600 can use non-ECC DDR3-1600 up to 16GB each. I have not used G. Skill so can't comment on it specifically. Is this the one you mean?:

G.SKILL TridentX Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model F3-1600C7D-16GTX > $89.99

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231628&cm_re=G.Skill_TridentX_16GB-_-20-231-628-_-Product

I think a latency of 7 is about as low as I've ever seen.

When you say you "managed to break" RAM, and ",..knew I shouldnt touch anything in there", are you confident in changing to the new RAM modules?

The system will run just fine on 6GB- you might not even notice the difference. I'm running my system with the browser, WordPerfect, Win Explorer, AutoCad 2014, Sketchup 2015, and YouTube music going and it's using only 4.93GB total.

Cheers,

BambiBoom

 

TwinDenis

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Also remember that I use my pc for both 3D work, Montage and gaming so I would need at least 8gb ram.
and I think I am clear on saying that I managed to breake it, it is not recognized by the os, sometimes it boots my os as standalone module and sometimes it doesnt.
I am concerned both for speed and size.
I can use more than 6gb of ram in a video editing project,
Anyway, is it okay that it is 2 instead of 4 modules?
I thought about buying it in case I want to buy more modules int he future as well as I heard it is better to have 2 modules for 16gb rather 4 for 16gb, meaning 8gb each one.
yes latency7 is the lowest I can find, in the market and this ramkit is for gaming I think.
And non-ecc
 

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