Design Workstation: XFX R9 390 vs. FirePro W4300? CPU Clock?

[Nikolaj_2]

Hi there.

I am putting together a workstation for my girlfriend as she needs something to work on projects on, while she is finishing her master in design. I am trying to cut some costs here and there because it's quite an expensive setup as it is.

To clarify, the software she will be using:
Rhino3d
vRay for Rhino
Cinema 4d Studio
PTC Creo
Adobe package (Photoshop and InDesign)

There might come some more software over time, as she starts working, but these should be the main ones for a long period of time.

Question 1:
I've done quite a lot of research and I actually already had my sights set on the FirePro W4300 which came out recently. I've read a lot of articles with different opinions as to what GFX options are the best, but the questions are mostly targeted at i.e. rendering, which is not the only thing she will be doing. Long story short, I found an amazing article that had in-depth specifics for GPU usage when rendering etc. and understood that it has something to do with OpenCL, which uses the GPU memory for rendering...

Anyway, I came across the XFX AMD Radeon R9 390, which states to have support for OpenCL, and comparing the W4300 to the R9 390 - I actually see nothing of the R9 390 that shouldn't make me go for this. Would be happy to hear from anyone who could be helpful.

Question 2:
The system I am putting together will be:
MOBO: MSI C236A Workstation
CPU: Intel Xeon E3-1230 V5 @ 3,4 Ghz
RAM: 64GB Kingston DDR4 2133MHz ECC Reg
SSD: Samsung 950 PRO 512GB M.2 PCIe SSD
GPU: Sapphire AMD FirePro W4300 4GB GDDR5

My question is related to the CPU. As I am not that familiar with the processes involved in the above mentioned software, I was wondering if there will be any significantly noticeable performance boost/lack between the XEON E3-1230 V5 @ 3,4 GHZ and the (around 100€ more expensive) XEON E3-1270 V5 @ 3,6 GHZ - I mean - it's 200Mhz?

Also, how big of a power supply will I need for this bad boy?

 

[imsqam]

The difference between consumer cards and workstation cards lies mainly in compatibility, error control and resolution. From a hardware perspective there is not much difference, what you pay the premium for is the software/driver development (and what a premium it is). They work with just about any program and have a much finer resolution (>> number of polygons).

The last difference is that despite what many people think computers make mistakes. They tend to be quite good at dealing with these mistakes but with video editing/CAD/3D animation these mistakes can be an issue. Does all this matter to you? If you are working at a professional level chances are odds on that they will. If your girlfriend is working on a master's I think it will matter. An opinion, go for the Firepro.

Now for the CPU, for a workstation number of cores/theads is of much greater concern than single core speed. Here the Xeon has 4 cores/8 threads which places it in the same class as an i7-6700. I think there is a better way here. Yes, lots of ram is good but I really don't think you need 64GB's of ram. This system is more in-line with a "better" system as defined by this document.

http://www.intel.com/content/dam/www/public/us/en/documents/guides/workstation-adobe-4k-guide.pdf

I think the better thing to do here is to drop the RAM quantity to 32GB and put that money toward a higher core count CPU. Assume that we save about 275€. Next, I notice that you have gone with a C236 chipset mobo. Again, I am not sure that you require this. Absolutely if it were a server application running night and day with critical fault control. Graphics processing might not be worth the premium. And I suspect it is a big premium, the only price I could find was 358 USD.

So here is my suggestion. Move to an LGA 2011-3 build, I believe that it will improve your performance and lower your costs. I don't believe that your application requires the reliability and longevity that the C236 chipset offers, the technology will advance long before you wear anything out. And I don't believe fault control will be an issue, you still have workstation graphics, Xeon CPU and ECC memory. What I would suggest is this

UPDATE: One thing I did not look at was the instruction set for the CPU, you will have to look at this. If it is not good enough then you might consider a 5820K CPU.

PCPartPicker part list: http://uk.pcpartpicker.com/p/mLdYnQ
Price breakdown by merchant: http://uk.pcpartpicker.com/p/mLdYnQ/by_merchant/

CPU: Intel Xeon E5-1650 V3 3.5GHz 6-Core Processor (£473.99 @ Amazon UK)
CPU Cooler: Intel BXTS13A CPU Cooler (£15.92 @ Amazon UK)
Motherboard: ASRock X99 Extreme4 ATX LGA2011-3 Motherboard (£169.16 @ More Computers)
Memory: Kingston 32GB (4 x 8GB) Registered DDR4-2133 Memory (£195.46 @ More Computers)
Storage: Samsung SM951 512GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive (£202.98 @ Ebuyer)
Other: Sapphire AMD FirePro W4300 (£250.00)
Total: £1307.51
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2016-02-02 20:31 GMT+0000

 

[frapport]

In North America best bang for the buck would be a EVGA 750W G2 model. Headroom and good PSU. YMMV.

 

[imsqam]

Oops, missed that question. Yep, good PSU.

 

[frapport]

Nikolaj_2 - the other thing you should watch for is what the programs being used call for
in the way of graphics support. I see no CUDA specific needs like what the NVidia Quadro
cards provide but you want a fairly heavy duty enterprise card like those or the FirePro for
the speed of the viewing ports. The consumer level cards do not deal with double precision
maths while the commercial cards do. It's also a speed thing while modeling.

A slight misconception about GPU memory is that the GPU handles the calculation for
OpenCL or OpenGL and the memory is the enabling capacity for the size of the model
that can be held onto without slowdowns as things are switched in an out.

The RAM question, well ECC RAM is error correcting but you are not designing bridges or
100 story Towers nor are you running an architectural firm so you should be able to go
with a 2011 socket and DDR4 RAM. I am a big RAM person and while 64GB seems large
it is the ability to keep going on several things at once without exhausting resources. The
second thing is that while a 5820K 6 core has been tossed into the mix it only gives you
28 Lanes in total which is up from the 20 of a 1155 class CPU or the 16 of older Xeons
and 1150 chips but I'd look higher at the 5830K.

At some point in time there will be a need for upgraded, very fast storage. Right now an
m.2 is a great option for a boot drive. Dual 2TB's in a raid config makes for a fast storage
container. An SSD for a scratch drive will pay for itself in saved time over dual spinners
when working. In the future something like a 5830K will give you 40 pci-e lanes for extra
high speed NVMe offerings on the horizon. If you doubled up on FirePro or Quadro cards
those extra lanes would come in handy and the machine would stay relevant for several
more years.

Of course all of this is a budget matter. Most bang for the buck and all that. I always ask
what you are using now and what its limitations are. At least then you will see a good boost
which I call 'wow' over just a mere 'bump' in capability. If you were to be going from a laptop
to your proposed system then that would be a 'wow' most likely. But if you have a half decent
desktop it may turn out to be little more than a bump.

And, while it is wonderful to custom build I wonder if there is an institutional package you
could get for the same price that would be as or more powerful.

 

[imsqam]

I think the big question here is budget. When I spec'ed the component I took what was proposed and tried to come up with a cost, then tried to use that same dollar/euro/pound amount to control the build. Many of your suggestion would increase the price of the system and the poster has asked to reduce costs. Yes, 64GB would be optimal but my point was not at the expense of the CPU. But all your points about system configuration and performance are well considered.

 

[frapport]

imsqam - I saw how you approached it and I don't disagree. I think we are working in an information
shortage which is why I extended the conversation. Most likely the OP's could get by with a tricked out
4790K or a 6700K rig as well as the fast 4 core Xeon. Most modelers I know are using much less in
the way of hardware and it just takes time. The pro's have their Dell's and HP's with a workstation
spec.

The speed of the machine and its capacity allow for iterations to be done very quickly, rapid prototyping
if you will, followed by speedy rendering is a key concept. Or is it. The OP's appeared to be leaning
towards a workstation. Fair enough. I think it would be a disservice to not test that premise and ask a
few more questions about the work/study/plans and so on.

A fast 6700K/DDR4/64GB RAM/FirePro system could provide enough horsepower for a course of study
which is not the same class of need as a working designer in a firm with projects on the go and deadlines
to meet. I wouldn't think the purpose built university computer would follow on to be expanded to its
full capacity but it might and then some of the considerations I raised would be relevant.

There's a lot to be said for having a familiar expandable and upgradeable tool to hand and another
equally valuable position of getting new tech every two cycles. So I see 'workstation', 'projects' and
'cost' and would like to delineate between actual need and opinions about how it should be done.

Design, where learning to use the tools is the main thrust. But I don't know the starting point. Is it
a laptop? An ancient desktop? It's nice to spec a workstation if you have a resident builder handy.
Is that what is needed? Technology changes so fast. Employers have their own solutions. If you
go freelance you would certainly want a system that could continue to grow until you have a few
paying customers.

Essentially then, a case of what you actually need and what you think you need.

 

[imsqam]

You are correct to extend the conversation, better to ask a few questions now than complain about an inappropriate build after the purchase. I saw how the original design had all sorts of error control and tried to keep that. But it didn't seem right for what I saw as the use. The C236 is so new on the market that it is hard to get any information and I bet that it will cost a pretty penny. But as you say, I don't understand what the application of the system will be.