In my opinion is not a contact as I have moved and even punched the case but it did not hang or displayed any error message!
Pyrostemplar
Commendable
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Ok, if the UPS is working that rules out electrical source issues.
Humidity causing an electrical issue seems to me the most obvious possibility. Have you tried using an hair drier, just as a test?
Correction. I tried the hair drier for about 5 minutes and the PC powered on. The first time I only tried for two to three minutes.
- Oct 11, 2014
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Update your post to include full system hardware specs and OS information.
Include PSU: make, model, wattage, age, condition (original to build, new, refurbished, used)?
Disk drive(s): make model, capacity, how full?
= = = =
How close is the air conditioner to the PC? Does the air conditioner blow directly on the PC or just near by?
Consider that there could be two problems: the first problem when PC is "too warm" and the second problem when the PC is "too cool".
And the end result being a matter of expansion or contraction. Something loose tightens (expansion) and regains connectivity. Something tight connected (contracts) and looses connectivity.
All being intermittment and a function of temperature. Vibrations and case air flows may be involved.
Sort of a perfect storm scenerio. Or Gremlins....
Worth a look into Reliability History and Event Viewer for error codes, warnings, and informational events that may be associated with the failures.
= = = =
Power down the PC, unplug, open the case.
Clean out dust and debris.
Verify by sight and feel that all connections, cards, RAM, jumpers, and case connectors are fully and firmly in place.
Use a bright flashlight to inspect for any signs of damage: bare conductor showing, melting, kinked or pinched wires, loose or missing screws, browned or blackened components/areas. GPU sagging, fan blades - dirty, cracked, blocked. Corrosion. Swollen components, scratches, solder joints, any physical damage at all.
= = = =
Revert to a bare bones build with the objective of achieving a reliable pc power on that is independent of air conditioning.
Take your time, be methodical, double check everything (User Guides/Manuals), keep notes. Change only one thing at a time allowing time between changes.
Key is to discover patterns and/or results that can be duplicated at will: If X then pc consistently powers on. If not X then pc fails to consistently power on.
Doing so is going to take some time and effort.
Include PSU: make, model, wattage, age, condition (original to build, new, refurbished, used)?
Disk drive(s): make model, capacity, how full?
= = = =
How close is the air conditioner to the PC? Does the air conditioner blow directly on the PC or just near by?
Consider that there could be two problems: the first problem when PC is "too warm" and the second problem when the PC is "too cool".
And the end result being a matter of expansion or contraction. Something loose tightens (expansion) and regains connectivity. Something tight connected (contracts) and looses connectivity.
All being intermittment and a function of temperature. Vibrations and case air flows may be involved.
Sort of a perfect storm scenerio. Or Gremlins....
Worth a look into Reliability History and Event Viewer for error codes, warnings, and informational events that may be associated with the failures.
= = = =
Power down the PC, unplug, open the case.
Clean out dust and debris.
Verify by sight and feel that all connections, cards, RAM, jumpers, and case connectors are fully and firmly in place.
Use a bright flashlight to inspect for any signs of damage: bare conductor showing, melting, kinked or pinched wires, loose or missing screws, browned or blackened components/areas. GPU sagging, fan blades - dirty, cracked, blocked. Corrosion. Swollen components, scratches, solder joints, any physical damage at all.
= = = =
Revert to a bare bones build with the objective of achieving a reliable pc power on that is independent of air conditioning.
Take your time, be methodical, double check everything (User Guides/Manuals), keep notes. Change only one thing at a time allowing time between changes.
Key is to discover patterns and/or results that can be duplicated at will: If X then pc consistently powers on. If not X then pc fails to consistently power on.
Doing so is going to take some time and effort.
Update your post to include full system hardware specs and OS information.Update your post to include full system hardware specs and OS information.
Include PSU: make, model, wattage, age, condition (original to build, new, refurbished, used)?
Disk drive(s): make model, capacity, how full?
= = = =
How close is the air conditioner to the PC? Does the air conditioner blow directly on the PC or just near by?
Consider that there could be two problems: the first problem when PC is "too warm" and the second problem when the PC is "too cool".
And the end result being a matter of expansion or contraction. Something loose tightens (expansion) and regains connectivity. Something tight connected (contracts) and looses connectivity.
All being intermittment and a function of temperature. Vibrations and case air flows may be involved.
Sort of a perfect storm scenerio. Or Gremlins....
Worth a look into Reliability History and Event Viewer for error codes, warnings, and informational events that may be associated with the failures.
= = = =
Power down the PC, unplug, open the case.
Clean out dust and debris.
Verify by sight and feel that all connections, cards, RAM, jumpers, and case connectors are fully and firmly in place.
Use a bright flashlight to inspect for any signs of damage: bare conductor showing, melting, kinked or pinched wires, loose or missing screws, browned or blackened components/areas. GPU sagging, fan blades - dirty, cracked, blocked. Corrosion. Swollen components, scratches, solder joints, any physical damage at all.
= = = =
Revert to a bare bones build with the objective of achieving a reliable pc power on that is independent of air conditioning.
Take your time, be methodical, double check everything (User Guides/Manuals), keep notes. Change only one thing at a time allowing time between changes.
Key is to discover patterns and/or results that can be duplicated at will: If X then pc consistently powers on. If not X then pc fails to consistently power on.
Doing so is going to take some time and effort.
The link below have most of information you asked and then some...
Include PSU: make, model, wattage, age, condition (original to build, new, refurbished, used)?
Maker: MyMax
Model: ATX 500W 80+ Bronze
Wattage: 500W
Age: 1 year and 3 months
Condition: New
Disk drive(s): make model, capacity, how full?Disk drivers: Maker: Acclamator SS 512GB
Seagate ST1000DM010-2EP102 (1TB)
Link with more details: DiskDrives
= = = =How close is the air conditioner to the PC? Does the air conditioner blow directly on the PC or just near by?
Air conditioner: About three meters away from computer
Does not blow directly on the PC
The air conditioner is a 220V unit and the PC is 110V
Consider that there could be two problems: the first problem when PC is "too warm" and the second problem when the PC is "too cool".I live in Rio de Janeiro. I don'nt think there is a "too cool" weather around here. However, "too hot and damp" is , sometimes the case.
And the end result being a matter of expansion or contraction. Something loose tightens (expansion) and regains connectivity. Something tight connected (contracts) and looses connectivity.All being intermittment and a function of temperature. Vibrations and case air flows may be involved.
Sort of a perfect storm scenerio. Or Gremlins....
Worth a look into Reliability History and Event Viewer for error codes, warnings, and informational events that may be associated with the failures.
Looked into reliability history but could not get any clue from there.
Event viewer has quite a few Event 41, Kernel-Power. General description: The system has rebooted without cleanly shutting down first. This error could be caused if the system stopped responding, crashed, or lost power unexpectedly.
Below are list of EventData. I am unable to interpret them.
- EventData
BugcheckCode 209
BugcheckParameter1 0x28
BugcheckParameter2 0x0
BugcheckParameter3 0x0
BugcheckParameter4 0x0
SleepInProgress 0
PowerButtonTimestamp 0
BootAppStatus 0
Checkpoint 16
ConnectedStandbyInProgress true
SystemSleepTransitionsToOn 1
CsEntryScenarioInstanceId 13
BugcheckInfoFromEFI true
CheckpointStatus 0
CsEntryScenarioInstanceIdV2 13
LongPowerButtonPressDetected false
LidReliability false
InputSuppressionState 0
PowerButtonSuppressionState 0
LidState 3
There are 19,009 administrative events
Most of them are "Event 7, disk" with the general description "The device, \Device\Harddisk1\DR1, has a bad block."
The first instance of the event is dated: 08/10/2022 17:48:05
The second more frequent is:
"Autopilot.dll WIL error was reported.
HRESULT: 0x80070491
File: onecoreuap\admin\moderndeployment\autopilot\dll\dllmain.cpp, line 128
Message: NULL
= = = =Power down the PC, unplug, open the case.
Clean out dust and debris.
Verify by sight and feel that all connections, cards, RAM, jumpers, and case connectors are fully and firmly in place.
Use a bright flashlight to inspect for any signs of damage: bare conductor showing, melting, kinked or pinched wires, loose or missing screws, browned or blackened components/areas. GPU sagging, fan blades - dirty, cracked, blocked. Corrosion. Swollen components, scratches, solder joints, any physical damage at all.I did the above recommendation except by cleaning the dust as there was almost none.
I tighten all screws that hold the motherboard (some of them were almost loose).
I tighten all screws that hold the motherboard (some of them were almost loose).
I did not find any loose connection, card jumpers, case connectors. They all seemed to be firmly in place.
I could not signs of damage, corrosion, swollen components, scratches, solder joint or any other physical damage.
= = = =Revert to a bare bones build with the objective of achieving a reliable pc power on that is independent of air conditioning.
I will do this tomorrow morning before powering on the air conditioner and having the PC in the same situation that the problem happens.
By "Revert to bare bones" I believe you mean disconnecting everything but memory (including the disk drives). Right?
By "Revert to bare bones" I believe you mean disconnecting everything but memory (including the disk drives). Right?
Take your time, be methodical, double check everything (User Guides/Manuals), keep notes. Change only one thing at a time allowing time between changes.
Key is to discover patterns and/or results that can be duplicated at will: If X then pc consistently powers on. If not X then pc fails to consistently power on.
Doing so is going to take some time and effort.
+=+=+=+=+=+
Thanks for your help!
- Oct 11, 2014
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The PandreHardware "specs" link appears to be hosted on OneDrive (?) and opens into HTML text.
Which drive is "The device, \Device\Harddisk1\DR1, has a bad block." per Disk Management?
In Event Viewer delete the logs to get an easier and fresher look at ongoing errors.
The error code description clearly indicates power problems.
- - - -
In Reliability History set the timeline to "Days".
Select a date that is representative of the error codes, warning, and informational events presented. Red, yellow, blue icons.
Expand the Reliability History window so all can be seen. Take a screenshot and post the screenshot here via imgur (www.imgur.com). Use imgur for all images.
Air Conditioner:
In agreement with @COLGeek regarding a potential electrical problem. There should be absolutely no dependency on whether or not the AC is running.
220 volts and 110 volts - how that is being done needs to be professionally checked.
And having a UPS may be adding to the problem(s). The UPS may or may not be respondingly quickly enough to cover power losses or brief voltage drops.
What all else is plugged into the UPS? Any other surge protectors, power strips, extension cords? You may have an electrical ground loop involved.
The UPS's surge protection, if any, may be gone. Surge protection is measured in Joules and is cumulative. Previous power surges may have saved the protected equipment for awhile. Reached max protection. Now, little or no protection. UPS could be damaged as well.
Therefore the PC - and the disk drive in particular is now taking the hits that are physically damaging the drive and/or corrupting data.
Very likely other system components are being stressed.
Summary: Get the electrical system inspected and checked. All circuits, outlets, and connected devices.
Some problem or potentially worsening problem will not end well.
Which drive is "The device, \Device\Harddisk1\DR1, has a bad block." per Disk Management?
In Event Viewer delete the logs to get an easier and fresher look at ongoing errors.
The error code description clearly indicates power problems.
- - - -
In Reliability History set the timeline to "Days".
Select a date that is representative of the error codes, warning, and informational events presented. Red, yellow, blue icons.
Expand the Reliability History window so all can be seen. Take a screenshot and post the screenshot here via imgur (www.imgur.com). Use imgur for all images.
Air Conditioner:
In agreement with @COLGeek regarding a potential electrical problem. There should be absolutely no dependency on whether or not the AC is running.
220 volts and 110 volts - how that is being done needs to be professionally checked.
And having a UPS may be adding to the problem(s). The UPS may or may not be respondingly quickly enough to cover power losses or brief voltage drops.
What all else is plugged into the UPS? Any other surge protectors, power strips, extension cords? You may have an electrical ground loop involved.
The UPS's surge protection, if any, may be gone. Surge protection is measured in Joules and is cumulative. Previous power surges may have saved the protected equipment for awhile. Reached max protection. Now, little or no protection. UPS could be damaged as well.
Therefore the PC - and the disk drive in particular is now taking the hits that are physically damaging the drive and/or corrupting data.
Very likely other system components are being stressed.
Summary: Get the electrical system inspected and checked. All circuits, outlets, and connected devices.
Some problem or potentially worsening problem will not end well.
- Oct 11, 2014
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Okay. Will defer on electrical codes and practices.
= = = =
"As I said before I was able to power on the PC by blowing hot air on the motherboard with a hair drier. "
Something got warmer, expanded, and made fuller contact.
"10 minutes" - again time for something to eventually warm up and make contact.
Another factor being ambient temperature (via AC) that affects/determines warm up and cool down times.
Consider that warm up occurs, pc works, internal fans then cool, stops working.... Back and forth.
Reliability Monitor/History:
Regarding critical events: overall, how many are "stopped working" or "not properly shutdown"?
Look at Weeks as well. In both the "Days" and "Weeks" views use the small black pointers on the end of the graph to scroll in time.
And hopefully the cleaned Event Viewer logs will prove helpful.
If necessary it is possible to do some additional, filtered searching within the logs. TBD.
= = = =
"As I said before I was able to power on the PC by blowing hot air on the motherboard with a hair drier. "
Something got warmer, expanded, and made fuller contact.
"10 minutes" - again time for something to eventually warm up and make contact.
Another factor being ambient temperature (via AC) that affects/determines warm up and cool down times.
Consider that warm up occurs, pc works, internal fans then cool, stops working.... Back and forth.
Reliability Monitor/History:
Regarding critical events: overall, how many are "stopped working" or "not properly shutdown"?
Look at Weeks as well. In both the "Days" and "Weeks" views use the small black pointers on the end of the graph to scroll in time.
And hopefully the cleaned Event Viewer logs will prove helpful.
If necessary it is possible to do some additional, filtered searching within the logs. TBD.
Just to complement the information:
Therefore the PC - and the disk drive in particular is now taking the hits that are physically damaging the drive and/or corrupting data.
Therefore the PC - and the disk drive in particular is now taking the hits that are physically damaging the drive and/or corrupting data.
Just to avoid any doubt about the UPS, I just, once again, bypassed it and connect the PC directly to the power outlet.
Ah! Another piece of information, I checked the voltage on the power outlet and it is at 128.8 V.
I will have to wait till tomorrow morning to power on the PC again in the same situation.
The problem remained after I bypassed the UPS
- Oct 11, 2014
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128.8 volts may not necessarily be a problem. There is usually some tolerance in the actual allowed/acceptable voltages with an A/C circuit.
With some acceptance for minor peaks up to 10%. The specs may be different for your location especially with the 220 air conditioner wiring possibly being involved. Even if commonly done that does not mean that what has been done is correct or otherwise has not failed in some manner.
Then I would also keep in mind the calibration and accuracy of the test the device.
What make and model UPS? Ratings? Does the the UPS have its' own circuit breaker? Surge protection rating? Remember surge protection is cumulative and the UPS may no longer be fully and properly functional.
In any case, I will reverse to go back and to recommend having a certified electrician take a look at everything and do the applicable testing.
That 128 volts may be a hint that 220 volts is soon to follow..... Not going to end well.
No harm in getting a professional on the site to do an inspection and to make recommendations. Just to double check everything.
Arrange to demonstrate the problem(s).
Very strange situation overall and I agree that it does not make sense. I am out of ideas now.
With some acceptance for minor peaks up to 10%. The specs may be different for your location especially with the 220 air conditioner wiring possibly being involved. Even if commonly done that does not mean that what has been done is correct or otherwise has not failed in some manner.
Then I would also keep in mind the calibration and accuracy of the test the device.
What make and model UPS? Ratings? Does the the UPS have its' own circuit breaker? Surge protection rating? Remember surge protection is cumulative and the UPS may no longer be fully and properly functional.
In any case, I will reverse to go back and to recommend having a certified electrician take a look at everything and do the applicable testing.
That 128 volts may be a hint that 220 volts is soon to follow..... Not going to end well.
No harm in getting a professional on the site to do an inspection and to make recommendations. Just to double check everything.
Arrange to demonstrate the problem(s).
Very strange situation overall and I agree that it does not make sense. I am out of ideas now.
Thanks for your recommendations.
128.8 volts may not necessarily be a problem.
It has never been a problem with an older PC. However, it oscillate along the time But, as measure it is always within the range [115 v , 130 v].
With some acceptance for minor peaks up to 10%. The specs may be different for your location especially with the 220 air conditioner wiring possibly being involved. Even if commonly done that does not mean that what has been done is correct or otherwise has not failed in some manner.
Reminding. The air conditioner is powered on just for about 10 minutes (these 10 minutes is the time it takes to the PC is able to start to boot) after the boot starts I power off the air conditioner. Therefore, I believe the air conditioner is not part of the problem. I am also able to boot the PC by blowing on the motherboard with an hot air drier. That makes me als believe that the power circuit is not part of the problem.
Then I would also keep in mind the calibration and accuracy of the test the device.
I used other test device from a friend and the measure was the same. As said above, nothing point to the power circuit to be the problem. However, I will not rule it out and will keep testing it.
What make and model UPS? Ratings? Does the the UPS have its' own circuit breaker? Surge protection rating? Remember surge protection is cumulative and the UPS may no longer be fully and properly functional.I removed the UPS and the PC is now directly connected to the power outlet. But, it was before connected to the UPS and the problem happened!
But just to answer your question: here is the link to the specs:
View: https://imgur.com/rS25uhU
In any case, I will reverse to go back and to recommend having a certified electrician take a look at everything and do the applicable testing.This have been suggested before and I answered that I am an Electronic Engineer and I did check and test all circuitry.
That 128 volts may be a hint that 220 volts is soon to follow..... Not going to end well.OK. Thanks. I will keep my eyes opened.
No harm in getting a professional on the site to do an inspection and to make recommendations. Just to double check everything.
OK. Thanks.
Arrange to demonstrate the problem(s).
How do you suggest I do this demonstration, and to whom?
Very strange situation overall and I agree that it does not make sense. I am out of ideas now.Welcome to the club!
What I expected was someone to get ideas not related to the power circuitry. This was my first idea and besides my own action (with my electricity expertise) i checked everything I could imagine and also everything suggested. All to no avail!
My conclusion is that the problem is not related to the power circuitry, it should be something internal to the PC. Because of that I bought a new power supply for a different brand and with even better specifications, and the problem remained.
I also checked the electrical connections from the power supply to the motherboard (even after replacing the previous PS with a new one). This seems to rule out the PS connections to the motherboard.
I also checked and tightened the screws on the motherboard
My conclusion is that the problem should be on the on the motherboard or on the processor. I was expecting that someone could suggest actions in these two components.
My conclusion is that the problem should be on the on the motherboard or on the processor. I was expecting that someone could suggest actions in these two components.
By the way, I already wrote earlier that the clock does not synchronizes with the internet (and, yes, I bought and changed the CMOS battery, checked its contacts and, just for the sake of it , I cleaned them).
I am asking for help on how to test the set motherboard/processor.
I am asking for help on how to test the set motherboard/processor.
Thanks for all suggestions and help!
- Oct 11, 2014
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By "demonstrate the problem" I meant just show who ever comes to inspect or help what is happening with respect to PC and air conditioner.
And:
" I am also able to boot the PC by blowing on the motherboard with an hot air drier. '
Consider that something is loose or cracked. PC does not work until that "something" heats up, expands, and makes contact.
May well be on the motherboard, CPU, or elsewhere.
The only way to know for sure is to swap in known working components into your computer.
Install your components into some other known working computer.
Test only one item at a time. Be very methodical and careful to keep all other things the same.
Determine if the problem stays with your computer or follows a swapped component.
And:
" I am also able to boot the PC by blowing on the motherboard with an hot air drier. '
Consider that something is loose or cracked. PC does not work until that "something" heats up, expands, and makes contact.
May well be on the motherboard, CPU, or elsewhere.
The only way to know for sure is to swap in known working components into your computer.
Install your components into some other known working computer.
Test only one item at a time. Be very methodical and careful to keep all other things the same.
Determine if the problem stays with your computer or follows a swapped component.
Just some story to enlighten the day!
Many years ago, as an Engineering Manager, in IBM Brazil Sumaré Plant, I was part of a team that reviewed the project of a mainframe that was going to be manufactured in our plant. During the manufacturing technical review meeting in IBM Endicott laboratory (upstate New York) I took issue with the fact that there was no process to electrically test the PCB that would receive the electronic logical cards . My issue, was blocking the manufacturing go ahead decision. The product program manager was forced to come down to Brazil and discuss with me an strategy to solve the problem. I will not go into details here, but with this story I wanted to point out that, testing passive PCBs is a long term problem that is not easily solved.
For me this is very similar to the problem I am facing right now.
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