Despite Six Strikes, US ISPs Disconnecting Repeat Offenders

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Good. People think that getting something for nothing is awesome, but don't realize these "thefts" only drive up prices (or keep prices high) for the rest of us who buy our products. Charge them, disconnect them, and hound them. If you don't like the laws in this country related to copyright/intellectual property - well you know what to do.
 
Bondfc11: It's a nice argument but it just isn't true. These companies will always keeps prices where they want them regardless of downloading piracy. The other point is that as it is all digital there is no physical loss, nor is there actual financial loss in the majority of cases (majority, not all all cases). If a person can't afford to buy a CD or DVD for example and then download it instead, they have the audio and/or the movie but the companies has not 'lost' anything other than what they would see as a potential sale. They haven't actually lost a sale as many of these people can't afford the music of DVDs as it is. So the only difference is that the end user has something that they would not have otherwise had which makes no difference to the owning companies. The only losses they actually suffer are those by people who could, should and would otherwise actually go out and buy the products.
 
Glad I live in the Netherlands fight in court against blocking the pirate bay and actually won instead of blocking their internet users, the worst that happened here is that downloading from an illegal source is in fact not legal anymore and that was just because of EU regulations.
 
It's not terrible to get pirates to pay a $20 fine although that seems a bit steep considering they don't have verification that these people actually have or are playing these files.

Disconnecting their internet is going too far though, especially considering all the services that run on it nowadays.
 


Ahh yes, the bread and butter argument of Generation Entitlement... so ***** lame. You would have to be incredibly ignorant to not realize that property, whether it is physical, digital, or intellectual, is STILL property that belongs to an individual or company. When you take a person's property, it is theft. It's really pretty cut and dry. By no means do I support the MPA, the RIAA, or any of the entertainment industry clowns and their ridiculous lobbying, DRM tactics and so forth... But damn... people like you that have somehow actually justified this in their minds as being absolutely ok just because it is not a tangible object and "you want it but weren't going to buy it"... It is no wonder many people outside of the U.S. look at us and laugh at how stupid people like you make everyone look with your complete lack of even an elementary level of common sense.. I guess I'll just go hack a database and steal your personal info and identity and sell it off to the highest bidder... I can do that right? I mean, I didn't take anything physical from your residents, so it's all good, right? Actually, I'm ENTITLED to take your personal info because, well, I want that money! That makes it all ok, because I want it.. right?..... yeah, that's how stupid you sound.

 
the ISP should have no control of how someone uses the service, pirating, email, porn suffing etc...if you pay for the service then who cares how someone uses it...once they start to disconnet people from the web the ISP will start to lose money...big money...the person that's being disconnected can very easily connect back up with a different service provider
 
You can buy land, but you can't use it to manufacture drugs. You can pay for an ISP, but you can't use it to acquire/distribute stolen goods. Nothing strange about that. Just because you pay money for a service doesn't mean you can use it to do any matter of illegal things.
 
Ahh yes, the bread and butter argument of Generation Entitlement... so <mod edit> lame. You would have to be incredibly ignorant to not realize that property, whether it is physical, digital, or intellectual, is STILL property that belongs to an individual or company. When you take a person's property, it is theft. It's really pretty cut and dry. By no means do I support the MPA, the RIAA, or any of the entertainment industry clowns and their ridiculous lobbying, DRM tactics and so forth... But damn... people like you that have somehow actually justified this in their minds as being absolutely ok just because it is not a tangible object and "you want it but weren't going to buy it"... It is no wonder many people outside of the U.S. look at us and laugh at how stupid people like you make everyone look with your complete lack of even an elementary level of common sense.. I guess I'll just go hack a database and steal your personal info and identity and sell it off to the highest bidder... I can do that right? I mean, I didn't take anything physical from your residents, so it's all good, right? Actually, I'm ENTITLED to take your personal info because, well, I want that money! That makes it all ok, because I want it.. right?..... yeah, that's how stupid you sound.
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Right, because corporations are people, we shouldn't hurt their feelings, and we should all genuflect in front of the new CEOverlords.

As questionable as their argument is, yours is even worse. Their argument stems from a rightly justified rejection of capitalism, and although it may not express itself particularly well, has merit when faced with the failed system we're currently trying to scavenge.

Your argument, aside from bashing its head against the wall of this slowly moving tide of resentment, is trying to defend the worst criminals out there. So you're saying it's theft, clear cut. Fine. What about the countless number of times businesses will arguably steal from millions, be it through over-hyping a product that is an utter POS and not accepting refunds, or through any other means.

Many pirates, certainly the ones I know, use pirating as a ways to keep companies honest. A long time ago, game conglomerates realized they could make a lot more money by selling a <mod edit> game, and not providing a demo, than by producing a quality product and giving a demo showing how good it is. Piracy is a way of stopping this, the worst of "free" market capitalism, by giving them repercussions for producing a horrible product. Instead of everybody buying it and realizing how awful it is and the company getting away entirely, some few of them would try it, dislike it, delete it, and spread the words to others. If it is a good product, they buy it, and still spread the word to others.

You call them the entitlement generation, but ask yourself this: Does it make you feel good being morally superior over those who feel they are entitled to a few games and movies produced by companies with billions in holdings, while defending the executives of the same companies that feel they are entitled to as much money as they can get their hands on by cheating and scamming, at the cost of their workers and their customers?





the ISP should have no control of how someone uses the service, pirating, email, porn suffing etc...if you pay for the service then who cares how someone uses it...once they start to disconnet people from the web the ISP will start to lose money...big money...the person that's being disconnected can very easily connect back up with a different service provider
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No they can't. Sure, if you live in a big city, you have choices, but if you live anywhere outside of that, the majority of the time you only have one offering for your ISP.

What should h ave happened was regulators getting off their collective rear end and realizing that access to the internet is as basic and necessary a commodity as electricity is, and treat it as such, making sure that all parts of the country have access rather than relying on profit-hungry companies to come in and make their decisions based on financial gain alone.
 
File sharing is the same thing as buying a dvd and giving it to your friend to borrow, only difference is you dont have to physically hand it to them...Whats next? If I buy a dvd or game will I be breaking the law if I physically give it to a friend to borrow? In the past couple of years there has been a countless number PC games that have been poorly optimized, "not finished" or have major compatibility issues with high end setups that include dual gpus and triple monitors. This is the main reason why I torrent, to make sure what I potentially might buy works the way I expect it to. I do not play the game past the 1st mission,race, map etc. The last game I bought without testing out via torrent was titanfall. Not only was that game way over hyped but when I finally got around to playing it, it had many issues including artifacting, lag and disconnects to say the least. My main problems was IT WOULDNT WORK WITH DUAL GPU SETUPS!!!..After waiting months for this issue to be fixed I finally gave up..The only solution they could give me was to disable one of my cards. REALLY?!?! Honestly, who wants to disable a video card they just spent $300 on? anyone? didnt think so....And to the genius that said piracy is why the prices keep going up? rofl! Maybe piracy might be a contributing factor but its definitely not the sole reason behind it. Have you ever thought of the free to play scene and how many people are switching over to games like that? Do you realize dota and league of legends are the 2 biggest games right now? and they are both free? And you can get payed to play it? What about game devs wanting more money? After all, they already want your money before the game comes out with all this pre ordering garbage. Seriously people, turn your brain on...The prices will continue to get higher and higher and there are a number of reasons, not just because piracy.
 


No it's not. When you loan the dvd, you don't have it anymore. You can't use it.
File sharing is..I give you a copy and keep a copy for me. 1 purchase, 2 people using it at the same time.

Not defending things either way, but let's get the concepts right.
 


Ahh yes, the bread and butter argument of Generation Entitlement... so ***** lame. You would have to be incredibly ignorant to not realize that property, whether it is physical, digital, or intellectual, is STILL property that belongs to an individual or company. When you take a person's property, it is theft. It's really pretty cut and dry. By no means do I support the MPA, the RIAA, or any of the entertainment industry clowns and their ridiculous lobbying, DRM tactics and so forth... But damn... people like you that have somehow actually justified this in their minds as being absolutely ok just because it is not a tangible object and "you want it but weren't going to buy it"... It is no wonder many people outside of the U.S. look at us and laugh at how stupid people like you make everyone look with your complete lack of even an elementary level of common sense.. I guess I'll just go hack a database and steal your personal info and identity and sell it off to the highest bidder... I can do that right? I mean, I didn't take anything physical from your residents, so it's all good, right? Actually, I'm ENTITLED to take your personal info because, well, I want that money! That makes it all ok, because I want it.. right?..... yeah, that's how stupid you sound.
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That's not the point he was making. He said that the companies are not actually losing as much money as they thought, and being digital has a very large part of this. Let me explain

If a person is homeless and can't buy bread, they can't buy bread, but they can steal the bread. The problem with this is that it costs the company selling the bread the cost to produce that bread.

BUT, with digital property, it costs the company nothing to reproduce the content. Therefore if someone who wouldn't have bought it (homeless person), just pirated it, then the company doesn't lose money so it doesn't hurt them, and the person gets the content.

The difference between this and what you are saying about stealing identity is that it doesn't hurt the company, it only benefits the downloader. Of course there are cases where people who normally would buy it instead pirate it (which bondfc mentioned) and that causes companies to lose money.
 
You would think at the first, second, or third offense, people would sign up for a VPN proxy service that doesn't log your IP like torguard, hide my @#$, or one of the many others.
 
Ahh yes, the bread and butter argument of Generation Entitlement... so <mod edit> lame. You would have to be incredibly ignorant to not realize that property, whether it is physical, digital, or intellectual, is STILL property that belongs to an individual or company. When you take a person's property, it is theft. It's really pretty cut and dry. By no means do I support the MPA, the RIAA, or any of the entertainment industry clowns and their ridiculous lobbying, DRM tactics and so forth... But damn... people like you that have somehow actually justified this in their minds as being absolutely ok just because it is not a tangible object and "you want it but weren't going to buy it"... It is no wonder many people outside of the U.S. look at us and laugh at how stupid people like you make everyone look with your complete lack of even an elementary level of common sense.. I guess I'll just go hack a database and steal your personal info and identity and sell it off to the highest bidder... I can do that right? I mean, I didn't take anything physical from your residents, so it's all good, right? Actually, I'm ENTITLED to take your personal info because, well, I want that money! That makes it all ok, because I want it.. right?..... yeah, that's how stupid you sound.
Click to expand...

Right, because corporations are people, we shouldn't hurt their feelings, and we should all genuflect in front of the new CEOverlords.

As questionable as their argument is, yours is even worse. Their argument stems from a rightly justified rejection of capitalism, and although it may not express itself particularly well, has merit when faced with the failed system we're currently trying to scavenge.

Your argument, aside from bashing its head against the wall of this slowly moving tide of resentment, is trying to defend the worst criminals out there. So you're saying it's theft, clear cut. Fine. What about the countless number of times businesses will arguably steal from millions, be it through over-hyping a product that is an utter POS and not accepting refunds, or through any other means.

Many pirates, certainly the ones I know, use pirating as a ways to keep companies honest. A long time ago, game conglomerates realized they could make a lot more money by selling a shitty game, and not providing a demo, than by producing a quality product and giving a demo showing how good it is. Piracy is a way of stopping this, the worst of "free" market capitalism, by giving them repercussions for producing a horrible product. Instead of everybody buying it and realizing how awful it is and the company getting away entirely, some few of them would try it, dislike it, delete it, and spread the words to others. If it is a good product, they buy it, and still spread the word to others.

You call them the entitlement generation, but ask yourself this: Does it make you feel good being morally superior over those who feel they are entitled to a few games and movies produced by companies with billions in holdings, while defending the executives of the same companies that feel they are entitled to as much money as they can get their hands on by cheating and scamming, at the cost of their workers and their customers?





the ISP should have no control of how someone uses the service, pirating, email, porn suffing etc...if you pay for the service then who cares how someone uses it...once they start to disconnet people from the web the ISP will start to lose money...big money...the person that's being disconnected can very easily connect back up with a different service provider
Click to expand...
No they can't. Sure, if you live in a big city, you have choices, but if you live anywhere outside of that, the majority of the time you only have one offering for your ISP.

What should h ave happened was regulators getting off their collective rear end and realizing that access to the internet is as basic and necessary a commodity as electricity is, and treat it as such, making sure that all parts of the country have access rather than relying on profit-hungry companies to come in and make their decisions based on financial gain alone.
Click to expand...

Word, this is one the better pro-piracy arguments that I've read beyond the standard "they weren't going to buy it anyway," which I would agree doesn't always necessarily lack merit. I'm an anti-capitalist, I'm going to be pirating your shizz and laughing about it when millionaires and billionaires cry about how food isn't being taken off their plates or how they struggle to make ends meet, or when the hackers, crackers and contributors to the piracy community make digital commodities that exist in a virtually infinite abundance to available to everyone as a form of resistance of capitalism (no matter how it's being justified, interpreted or elaborated), even a form of affirmation. The people who participate in these types of activities usually aren't out to harm the average person, so someone hacking me premised upon arguments against piracy fails to differentiate between the wealthy to poor-average person. And besides, your values aren't my values, including those of property relations, and I really don't care about the law.

Capitalism is itself theft and entitlement of the wealthy, corporations and individual capitalists arbitrarily profit through the labor of workers which for the most part they contribute nothing to, and being that most people don't have access to enough capital so as become a capitalist while not being edged out of the market (that's aside from capitalism not being able to function without stratification and inequality) and that class relations are enforced through legal institutions, including the police apparatus, it's not a voluntary relation rather than a power relation entwined through various structures, economic (in both aspects of production and consumption), political and social.

I don't feel the need to apologize about pirating, about crappy games, software, DRM, films, etc, but I'm still more inclined to support indie musicians, developers or whatever as my budget allows me to given that I'm actually interested in their creations considering they're much more vulnerable to market mechanisms than HBO, EA, or whatever large scale corporate record label. They're also most generally not all that financially stable as individuals while not letting their creations being dictated by profit and sales considerations while being bogged down by inflated budgets and a loss of control, which is usually why the quality is, I guess subjectively, superior to a lot of the mass produced crap that's out there, and while they do intend to make a living by doing something they enjoy a lot of them aren't overly concerned about piracy. So for me at least, it's not an issue of being pro-small or independent business as opposed to large business, but what type of affects certain practices will have upon them as people once they start to become too excessive.

And lol, a lot of the people outside of the US don't like the US as a whole because they think that the right-wing and American chauvinism here is representative of everyone who happens to live within the geographical area collectively known as the US (apart from its former colonies). I can't necessarily blame 'em.

Anyway, after wanting to find out if there were any analyses or interpretations of p2p as being a form of digital communism, although I'm not stoked on market socialist ideas I found a pretty interesting article written by Kevin Carson that I'd suggest looking into if it's relevant to your political inclinations. Companies can do whatever they want so as to prevent piracy, including the inevitable demolishing of net neutrality (an intersection between the political and economic that has and always will exist so long as these structures and relations remain intact), there is and always has been a way to outmaneuver them.
 
I used to pirate video games, until STEAM rolled around. excellent games at cheap prices, they sell in volume, we ALL win.

if movies and music were proportionally cheaper, i would buy those too. i would want nothing more than the purest quality of music/movies without the worry of a poor rip. but they don't want to sell in volume because they are still in the 20th century.

and no, i don't buy the "stolen property is stolen" argument. they make plenty of money as it is. im not worried.
 
loved living in Guatemala. Download police?? haha.... as soon as the country started enforcing the homicide laws, I might have worried about it (although there are probably a lot of crimes between homicide and illegal downloads for them to enforce first). All these rules apply to the USA only. America = corporate police state.
 
I find it amazing how many people have no idea what they are talking about. Piracy doesn't cost anything? Really? Every argument on this page that started with that premise is an auto ignore. Start a business and then let's talk about anti-capitalism. To the one dude that cannot quote properly - where would you be without someone else paying your way (a business owner)? Are you self-employed not making a dime off of a capitalist enterprise? Probably not. But you start your whole argument with that premise. Interesting.
 
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