Question Did I Mess Up Again? (my choice)

Jul 20, 2017
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I am building a pc with a 2700x.

I am planning to use 2 nvme ssds.

I paid $121 for a rog strix b450-i instead of paying $165 for a rog strix x470-f.

The one I picked will let both ssds run at pcie 3.0 x4, but gimps the gpu to x8.

The x470 would have left the gpu at x16, but would have gimped the second ssd to 3.0 x2. It also had no built in wireless or bluetooth and of course would have required a bigger case.

I went back and forth for hours until the sale was about to end.

NOTES: I do not game on a pc, so if I ever do it will be infrequent. I do not plan to OC the cpu. I do not plan to upgrade parts later, thus why I thought a max of 32GB RAM was ok, since by the time I need more, I'd likely want an entirely new build.

The x470 one is listed as high end, whereas the one I got is considered middle tier. Also, even though tests show x8 being no big deal for a gpu, I am worried for video editing it may be more difference than in those gaming tests.

This was one stressful decision. Basically chose a bit worse VRM and a gimped GPU over a gimped secondary ssd, lack of wireless, bigger case required, a lot more cost (probably $80 more due to more expensive case and wireless card).

ps yes i'd RATHER have waited for x570 and 3700x, but I don't really need them, anyway, and my pc is freezing up a lot lately.
 
Jul 20, 2017
645
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I haven't built it yet or used any parts from it. I can't really imagine there being a problem on that end for a motherboard ranked in the upper middle tier and me only having 1 gpu and not overclocking, though. It's just a 2 fan gtx 1070 ti, 32gb 3200 RAM, no hdds, no internal optical drives, no overclocking. If that configuration would cause issues, then the board would have to be crap. That said, would have been nice to have the higher end x470-f.

Btw I had already bought the fatal1ty x470, and hadn't opened it yet, and tthis b450 is ranked ahead of that asrock x470 for VRM etc...

So, anyway, I assumed temps wouldn't be the issue. I am just wondering if the gpu at x8 will perform worse than I think, since people's tests are generally for gaming use.
 
Jul 20, 2017
645
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You said:

I assumed you built the pc already and are having issues with it.
oh ok. nah, I just now ordered the mobo and was just worried that I should have chosen the better one, based on specs, not used it yet.

I hope all goes smoothly because I have never built before and if anything goes worng, I'll probably have to take forever to troubleshoot.
 
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The x470 one is listed as high end, whereas the one I got is considered middle tier. Also, even though tests show x8 being no big deal for a gpu, I am worried for video editing it may be more difference than in those gaming tests.
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Why do you think the GPU will be limited to x8? The primary GPU slot connects to the CPU and is PCIe gen 3 x 16 in all boards for a single GPU. You're probably getting confused about Ryzen with Vega APU which feeds the primary GPU slot at x8 but that happens regardless of chipset.

Since you're not overclocking I don't think the X470 would have served you any better than what you got. It's only considered 'high end' for enthusiasts who overclock heavily as it has a better VRM that helps when overclocking an 8 core 2700 heavily.

X570 board will be nice when some Gen 4 devices come available but absent that we've still to see any advantages.

EDIT ADD: I went to Asus web site and I think I see now...

on Strix b450-i the second M.2 slot 'steals' 4 Gen 3 lanes from the GPU leaving it to run at PCIe Gen 3 X 8, effectively wasting 4 CPU provided PCIe Gen 3 lanes. Since you plan on running 2 NVME's that will happen but that's a trade-off you have to make.

On my board the second NVME runs off the B450 chipset at Gen2 x 4 so you could say it's gimped. If data transfer to the second NVME is more important in your use case than data transfers to the GPU you'll have made the right choice.

What I've been able to find out you are right about x8 vs x16 to the GPU for gaming: it's completely undetectable to a user and even benchmarking differences were within in the margin of error. But if you're doing heavy GPU compute tasks it might be different.
 
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Jul 20, 2017
645
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Why do you think the GPU will be limited to x8? The primary GPU slot connects to the CPU and is PCIe gen 3 x 16 in all boards for a single GPU. You're probably getting confused about Ryzen with Vega APU which feeds the primary GPU slot at x8 but that happens regardless of chipset.

Since you're not overclocking I don't think the X470 would have served you any better than what you got. It's only considered 'high end' for enthusiasts who overclock heavily as it has a better VRM that helps when overclocking an 8 core 2700 heavily.

X570 board will be nice when some Gen 4 devices come available but absent that we've still to see any advantages.

EDIT ADD: I went to Asus web site and I think I see now...

on Strix b450-i the second M.2 slot 'steals' 4 Gen 3 lanes from the GPU leaving it to run at PCIe Gen 3 X 8, effectively wasting 4 CPU provided PCIe Gen 3 lanes. Since you plan on running 2 NVME's that will happen but that's a trade-off you have to make.

On my board the second NVME runs off the B450 chipset at Gen2 x 4 so you could say it's gimped. If data transfer to the second NVME is more important in your use case than data transfers to the GPU you'll have made the right choice.

What I've been able to find out you are right about x8 vs x16 to the GPU for gaming: it's completely undetectable to a user and even benchmarking differences were within in the margin of error. But if you're doing heavy GPU compute tasks it might be different.
Nice timing that you mentioned that 4 wasted lanes part... I JUST got through PMing someone on another site saying "isn't that just totally wasting 4 lanes directly from the cpu? why don't they have it somehow run at x12?".

See I have neevr built before, but after people answering me on so many questions I now know that mobos vary greatly in how they handle this.

On this mobo, it takes 4 o the gpu's lanes. On the x470-f it keeps the gpu at x16, but then it limits the second ssd to 3.0x2 (still good enough for a secondary ssd, I'm srue). Like you mentioned, some run the second one at 2.0x4. I don't think ANY current mobo compatible with ryzen 2 allows 2 nvme ones at 3.0x4 AND a gpu at x16. Because then that would be all 24 lanes of the CPU before the chipset is considered.

Anyway, oh well. I decided the gpu at x8 would be worth doing to be able to have an itx board and less cost, mainly.

Also, this mobo can be returned for refund. The x470-f was a replacement only policy. Was a nice price, though.... after paying tax it was only going to be $165, due to various discounts.

Btw, how does precision boost work, or w/e it's called? Since I am not going to add my own cooler or extra case fans, would I need to have that off totally? In other words, would it go overboard on OCing because it assumes I have good cooling?

Also, is it going to be weird that my gpu will be sticking out of the mobo? lol. itx mobos look so tiny. Of course I am not getting a windowed case, so I guess it doesn't matter if it's just looks.
 
Nice timing that you mentioned that 4 wasted lanes part... I JUST got through PMing someone on another site saying "isn't that just totally wasting 4 lanes directly from the cpu? why don't they have it somehow run at x12?".

See I have neevr built before, but after people answering me on so many questions I now know that mobos vary greatly in how they handle this.

On this mobo, it takes 4 o the gpu's lanes. On the x470-f it keeps the gpu at x16, but then it limits the second ssd to 3.0x2 (still good enough for a secondary ssd, I'm srue). Like you mentioned, some run the second one at 2.0x4. I don't think ANY current mobo compatible with ryzen 2 allows 2 nvme ones at 3.0x4 AND a gpu at x16. Because then that would be all 24 lanes of the CPU before the chipset is considered.

Anyway, oh well. I decided the gpu at x8 would be worth doing to be able to have an itx board and less cost, mainly.

Also, this mobo can be returned for refund. The x470-f was a replacement only policy. Was a nice price, though.... after paying tax it was only going to be $165, due to various discounts.

Btw, how does precision boost work, or w/e it's called? Since I am not going to add my own cooler or extra case fans, would I need to have that off totally? In other words, would it go overboard on OCing because it assumes I have good cooling?

Also, is it going to be weird that my gpu will be sticking out of the mobo? lol. itx mobos look so tiny. Of course I am not getting a windowed case, so I guess it doesn't matter if it's just looks.
Do you mean Precision Boost Over-ride, PBO?

Precision boost just boost the processor speed so long as processor is staying within defined limits. XFR boosts it even higher and X CPU's higher and longer. By using PBO...Precision Boost Over-ride and extending thermal, current and power limits...it makes the CPU ignore certain limits and boost higher and longer.

Done right with proper cooling, and little bit of under-volting, it's possible to get two cores to stay boosted at 4.3-4.4Ghz on 2700X CPU's. People can rarely get a true all-core overclock at 4.2Ghz (and that usually requires raising voltage) so that could be a big help in CPU bottle necked games that only heavily load one or two threads.

I guess not many people have a great need for more than one high-speed NVME. Either that or the market is well enough served by add--in cards. Also, a gen3 x 2 would be pretty much the same speed potential as gen2 x 4 so that's a wash.

Even though it's way faster and smoother than the SATA SSD I had as my data drive before I never saturate the bandwidth of my gen2 x 4 NVME---except during benchmarks :) . I suppose there are a few use cases, outside of data centers, that will but I can't imagine what.
 
Jul 20, 2017
645
0
980
Do you mean Precision Boost Over-ride, PBO?

Precision boost just boost the processor speed so long as processor is staying within defined limits. XFR boosts it even higher and X CPU's higher and longer. By using PBO...Precision Boost Over-ride and extending thermal, current and power limits...it makes the CPU ignore certain limits and boost higher and longer.

Done right with proper cooling, and little bit of under-volting, it's possible to get two cores to stay boosted at 4.3-4.4Ghz on 2700X CPU's. People can rarely get a true all-core overclock at 4.2Ghz (and that usually requires raising voltage) so that could be a big help in CPU bottle necked games that only heavily load one or two threads.

I guess not many people have a great need for more than one high-speed NVME. Either that or the market is well enough served by add--in cards. Also, a gen3 x 2 would be pretty much the same speed potential as gen2 x 4 so that's a wash.

Even though it's way faster and smoother than the SATA SSD I had as my data drive before I never saturate the bandwidth of my gen2 x 4 NVME---except during benchmarks :) . I suppose there are a few use cases, outside of data centers, that will but I can't imagine what.
What happened is I bought a 512gb 970 pro and was going to use HDDs, as well. I then randomly decided to get a second ssd and use no HDDs at all, to cut down on potential noise and just thought it would be cool to have every derive I move files between to be ssds, ie very fast. Only going to get a 1tb for the secondary and then if I do need more than that combined 1.5tb I'd just use external ones. I don't game, so wouldn't need a lot of space for games or anything. But yeah... I went overboard getting the 970 pro at all...

I also considered selling the pro and buying a bigger single drive and using only one. But I thought well in case of failure would be good to have a couple drives,s till, to have ever important stuff backed up between the.

As for PBO, my question on that is assuming I'm not adding additional cooling beyond stock 2700x cooler and case fans that already come with the case, could I still use PBO successfully at all or would it go overboard and get the system too hot?

I do not not NOT "need" any OCing. I don't even need the default speeds of 2700x. Many told me I could even get by with an intel i3 most of the time. lol. SO only was going to do any OCing at all if it's a minimal amount.
 
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As for PBO, my question on that is assuming I'm not adding additional cooling beyond stock 2700x cooler and case fans that already come with the case, could I still use PBO successfully at all or would it go overboard and get the system too hot?
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The whole point of PBO is you don't really overclock so the processor's thermal and power control mechanisms (SenseMi i think they call it, which controls Precision Boost and XFR boosting) are still in place and working, just gamed a little bit with PBO. And you definitely don't want to increase voltage, in fact it's desireable to under volt (using an offset) which helps the processor stay a bit cooler. So if you're on stock cooling you can still use PBO with success, it just may not stay boosted as long to higher frequencies.

But do remember this technique only gets twocores to the higher frequencies for longer. The rest of the CPU will boost pretty normally so it won't see the advantage from this. That means the only benefit are to work loads with heavily loaded single or dual threads...which describes games.

Productivity work loads that load down all 8 cores/16 threads will heat the processor up so even the 'gold star' cores won't be able to stay boosted to the high XFR frequency so it won't benefit from this nearly as well, if at all, since you're still on stock cooling. Now here is where really good cooling does pay off as it will help the two cores to stay boosted longer even with all the other cores working hard and kicking heat into the cooler. Some people with good AIO coolers report that the two cores will stay boosted throughout Cinebench runs and other all-core productivity tasks.
 
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Jul 20, 2017
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The whole point of PBO is you don't really overclock so the processor's thermal and power control mechanisms (SenseMi i think they call it) are still in place and working, just gamed a little bit with PBO. And you definitely don't want to increase voltage, in fact it's desireable to under volt (using an offset) which helps the processor stay a bit cooler. So if you're on stock cooling you can still use PBO with success, it just may not stay boosted as long to higher frequencies.
Oh so are you saying absically it bases it on the current system situation at that time, ie temps or something else, so it would just simply not go as all out on a system that isn't currently below certain temps or some other measurement?
 
Oh so are you saying absically it bases it on the current system situation at that time, ie temps or something else, so it would just simply not go as all out on a system that isn't currently below certain temps or some other measurement?
Unlike manual all-core overclocking it leaves the boosting...and throttling...functions in place and working. So it only boosts to higher frequencies when workload demands it.
 
Jul 20, 2017
645
0
980
Unlike manual all-core overclocking it leaves the boosting...and throttling...functions in place and working. So it only boosts to higher frequencies when workload demands it.
Thanks,

This may be a weird question, but if a gpu is running in x8, does it lower power consumption and temps any? I really badly wanted the Nano S case, but backed off of it because the cpu pr psu (I forget) is said to block a fan on a gpu. I had wondered if maybe when in x8 it would be less of an issue with heat buildup there? I doubt it, though… I am probably doomed to either not get the Nano S or have to figure out some solution. And I already have all parts except the case I want and a second ssd.
 
..if a gpu is running in x8, does it lower power consumption and temps any? ....
Normally, I couldn't imagine it having a significant effect on power consumption while gaming. Reason being games execute from local memory (on the card) for maximum performance. So bus transfers are held to a minimum when gaming action is intense.

But if your GPU is memory-constrained, like a 3 GB card, and you're trying to run a high-resolution (1440 or 4K) graphics intense game it might since the GPU will be constantly waiting for PCIe bus transfers to complete. But gaming action suffers immensely and even a full X16 bandwidth won't help a lot.

And, of course, GPU-compute tasking depends entirely on the particular application you're using. I find it curious any GPU compute I've done doesn't heat up my heavily overclocked RX480 very much no matter how intense it gets. But all I've done is Folding@Home and a few BOINC tasks, possibly bit-mining could be different.
 
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Jul 20, 2017
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Normally, I couldn't imagine it having a significant effect on power consumption while gaming. Reason being games execute from local memory (on the card) for maximum performance. So bus transfers are held to a minimum when gaming action is intense.

But if your GPU is memory-constrained, like a 3 GB card, and you're trying to run a high-resolution (1440 or 4K) graphics intense game it might since the GPU will be constantly waiting for PCIe bus transfers to complete. But gaming action suffers immensely and even a full X16 bandwidth won't help a lot.

And, of course, GPU-compute tasking depends entirely on the particular application you're using. I find it curious any GPU compute I've done doesn't heat up my heavily overclocked RX480 very much no matter how intense it gets. But all I've done is Folding@Home and a few BOINC tasks, possibly bit-mining could be different.
I'm not going to game much at all, but could video edit (some programs rely a lot on gpu for it, such as Resolve, I believe). Also, I have an 8gb 1070 ti.

Main thing I am wishing is that the Nano S would work well enough for a case, but people said something blocks a fan on the gpu when using that case... I think the psu. Just sucks I am going to have to have a case several inches taller and 5 pounds heavier solely due to that, when I wonder if it even matters since I'd rarely do anything straining the gpu.
 
I'm not going to game much at all, but could video edit (some programs rely a lot on gpu for it, such as Resolve, I believe). Also, I have an 8gb 1070 ti.

Main thing I am wishing is that the Nano S would work well enough for a case, but people said something blocks a fan on the gpu when using that case... I think the psu. Just sucks I am going to have to have a case several inches taller and 5 pounds heavier solely due to that, when I wonder if it even matters since I'd rarely do anything straining the gpu.
Did you check Toms' review on the Nano S?
https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/fractal-design-define-nano-s-mini-itx-case,4457-2.html

The kit they installed in the case for that review looks to leave plenty of space for the GPU to 'breathe'. Although they used a smaller card it was true double-width: hopefully yours is too? I'd want to keep to a small-form-factor PSU like they used in that review though (Be Quiet SFX Power 2 I think).

These are compromises you have to consider making when you want a clean mini-ITX build.

EDIT add: another thing you could consider is a reference design GPU. They have blower-style cooler fan that picks up air beyond the PSU so it can't interfere and then exhausts the heated air from the case completely.
 
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Jul 20, 2017
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980
Did you check Toms' review on the Nano S?
https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/fractal-design-define-nano-s-mini-itx-case,4457-2.html

The kit they installed in the case for that review looks to leave plenty of space for the GPU to 'breathe'. Although they used a smaller card it was true double-width: hopefully yours is too? I'd want to keep to a small-form-factor PSU like they used in that review though (Be Quiet SFX Power 2 I think).

These are compromises you have to consider making when you want a clean mini-ITX build.

EDIT add: another thing you could consider is a reference design GPU. They have blower-style cooler fan that picks up air beyond the PSU so it can't interfere and then exhausts the heated air from the case completely.
No, this is my first build and as I bought parts a little at a time I didn't realize these things because for one thing my whole build, even with the nano s, shows as no issues on pcpartpicker, but clearly there would be sicne my psu is close to the max size you can fit and the gpu probably is too. And I am already selling so many parts after changing my mind, it's almost like I'm selling off all I bought and wasted money. Then to top that off I am building with a 2700x when the 3700x will be out soon.
 
No, this is my first build and as I bought parts a little at a time I didn't realize these things because for one thing my whole build, even with the nano s, shows as no issues on pcpartpicker, but clearly there would be sicne my psu is close to the max size you can fit and the gpu probably is too. And I am already selling so many parts after changing my mind, it's almost like I'm selling off all I bought and wasted money. Then to top that off I am building with a 2700x when the 3700x will be out soon.
I'm not sure how much compatibility checking PCPartPicker can do. I think it looks for mismatches like an Intel processor and an AMD motherboard...or DDR3 memory in a DDR4 motherboard...or Ryzen processor in AM3 socket motherboard. I'm not sure it will help with something like an optimal sized PSU for a case and GPU combo.

At the outset you said all you've ordered is the motherboard so you should be able to change PSU if you wanted. But what is your total system build list...posting PCPartpicker link would let someone comment on it in total.

Don't fret the 3700x. All we know are rumors...and the current one is it's a 6 core chip while the 2700x is an 8 core chip so it may still be as fast in productivity workloads.
 
Jul 20, 2017
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I'm not sure how much compatibility checking PCPartPicker can do. I think it looks for mismatches like an Intel processor and an AMD motherboard...or DDR3 memory in a DDR4 motherboard...or Ryzen processor in AM3 socket motherboard. I'm not sure it will help with something like an optimal sized PSU for a case and GPU combo.

At the outset you said all you've ordered is the motherboard so you should be able to change PSU if you wanted. But what is your total system build list...posting PCPartpicker link would let someone comment on it in total.

Don't fret the 3700x. All we know are rumors...and the current one is it's a 6 core chip while the 2700x is an 8 core chip so it may still be as fast in productivity workloads.
I said, I've already bought "all" parts, not jus the motherboard. Also, pcpartpicker checks compatibility based on some sizes, as well, I believe. True, it doesn't take into account some details which make a big difference, though. But I already know the sizes work, it's just that for the Nano S case, it would block a gpu fan, so I about have no choice but not get the case I want. :( And then the whole gimped gpu issue.
 

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