Difference between FCPGA and FCPGA2 Socket 370 CPU

[CDBurner]

What's the difference between FCPGA Socket 370 CPUs and FCPGA2 Socket 370 CPUs? Can both of them work in all Socket 370 motherboards?

 

[Crashman]

FC-PGA2 means the CPU has a metal cover, called a heat spreader, on top of the die. Most are Tualatins, but a few were the last of the Coppermines.

Most companies are refering to Tualatins when they say "FC-PGA2" which is not 100% accurate, but it's something to remember.

The progression of the Socket 370 started with early boards which only supported PPGA Celerons. Later boards support FC-PGA (and the less common FC-PGA2) Coppermines. Only the latest support Tualatins (all are FC-PGA2).

In order to use a Tualatin CPU you have to have a compatable board. Intel reassigned a few of the pins on the Tualatin so that they wouldn't be compatable with earlier boards. Adapters are available that can make the transition possible, I'll sell you one for $20! Only if you need it of course.

In order to know if your board supports Tualatins without resorting to an adapter, I'll need more information on the board. Specifically, the manufacturer and model number would be most usefull.

<font color=blue>Watts mean squat if you don't have quality!</font color=blue>

 

[CDBurner]

Thank you, Crashman! That is good to know. My motherboard states that it has a "ZIF Socket PPGA370". The motherboard is a Daewoo CB649M-SI. I got it in 1999. Would that be able to use an FC-PGA processor (Celeron or PIII) without an adapter? My BIOS says "Pentium II/III System" when I start the computer. I know that my motherboard and memory support a 100MHz FSB.

Thanks again!<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by cdburner on 04/02/03 11:33 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[Crashman]

Sure, you should be able to get by with a PIII 850 (or slower). There's a few faster PIII's on a 100MHz bus, but they are EXTREMELY rare. You could also run a faster Celeron, probably up to 850MHz or so. This is assuming the information your board is giving you is correct.

<font color=blue>Watts mean squat if you don't have quality!</font color=blue>

 

[CDBurner]

Thanks again, Crashman! Would my limit be an 850MHz clock, or would a 1.1 GHz Celeron like the one at <A HREF="http://www.motherboards.com/catalog/product_info.php?category_id=5&index_id=9&subcategory_id=&products_id=15655&PHPSESSID=4116e165a08d14be0be0eaf76278628c" target="_new">http://www.motherboards.com/catalog/product_info.php?category_id=5&index_id=9&subcategory_id=&products_id=15655&PHPSESSID=4116e165a08d14be0be0eaf76278628c</A> work, too? Sorry about the long URL. I am assuming that this chip has a 100MHz bus. Thanks for taking the time to explain the intricate details of this to me!

 

[Crashman]

It might, since the 128k version of the Celeron at that speed is a Coppermine. But then again it might not. Some boards don't support multipliers that high in BIOS.

Another thing, the PIII 850 performs just a bit better than the Celeron 1100 Coppermine if I recall correctly.

<font color=blue>Watts mean squat if you don't have quality!</font color=blue>

 

[CDBurner]

After researching this subject some more online, I have become quite confused. I saw an adapter online which allowed FCPGA CPUs to be used in PPGA motherboards. Is this only needed in the circumstance that the motherboard uses a slower FSB than the CPU, or is the pin-out or CPU voltage different on FCPGA CPUS than it is on PPGA CPUs?

On PowerLeap's web site, I did see reports of successes in upgrading motherboards with AWARD BIOS 4.51PG to a 1400MHz Celeron Tualatin CPU. This is the BIOS I have, so I don't think BIOS support is going to be a problem. Now, I am just worried about getting compatible hardware.

Thanks so much for your great help, and I hope I will soon be able to understand all of this information and make a good decision on what to do regarding upgrading this CPU.

 

[CDBurner]

I just took some photos of my old CPU. I am thinking that it may be an FCPGA chip, but I am not sure because I have never entirely built a system that was based on Socket 370. Is there a way I can upload photos to the forum so that you can see them? Thanks!

 

[CDBurner]

I just found that my processor is a PPGA processor. I found some pics on Intel's site that helped me identify my processor.

 

[Crashman]

I believe your board supports FC-PGA Coppermine CPU's without an adapter. As for whether it will support Tualatin CPU's with an adapter, it really depends on the board. I'm selling a Tualatin adapter for $20 plus shipping. I've tested the adapter myself.

<font color=blue>Watts mean squat if you don't have quality!</font color=blue>

 

[Crashman]

Right, which leads us back to this: There were three pinout variations, the original Socket 370 boards only supported PPGA, the second version only supports PPGA and Coppermine, the third only Coppermine and Tualatin. Based on your BIOS message and the age of your board, the second version (supporting Coppermine and PPGA) seems most likely. Tualatins would require an adapter plus a BIOS which isn't totally confused by multipliers above 10x.

<font color=blue>Watts mean squat if you don't have quality!</font color=blue>

 

[CDBurner]

Sounds good! Is there any characteristic of the board I could use to identify for sure if it supports Coppermines, and would it hurt the board or CPU if I put a Coppermine in it and the board really didn't support it? Also, when you say that it depends on the board regarding Tualatin adapter support, is this just a BIOS multiplier issue or is it an issue with the hardware? Thank you so much, and I apologize if I have been asking too many questions. I just don't want to break something!

 

[Crashman]

hmm, well since the BIOS says PII/PIII motherboard I was hoping it would support some kind of PIII, which would mean it has Coppermine core support. And all 128k cache Celerons from 566 up were based on that Coppermine PIII.

I have an MSI board for Gateway that won't support my Celeron 1100 Tualatin on a standard Tualatin adapter, I don't know why, but have seen similar problems on Asus boards caused by BIOS not supporting multipliers higher than 10x. Asus released a beta BIOS last year that fixed the problem.

Oh, and you won't break anything, Intel is smarter about how they reconfigure their sockets than to set you up for that type of failure. It will either work, or not. If you have a close friend that will allow you to test their 100MHz bus socket type PIII on your board, you can find out in a hurry.

<font color=blue>Watts mean squat if you don't have quality!</font color=blue>

 

[CDBurner]

I have AWARD BIOS 4.51PG, and I have read of successes upgrading machines with this BIOS to Celeron-Tualatin 1400 processors. I think that the BIOS won't be a problem. What bios did your board that wouldn't support the Tualatin 1100 use? Thanks again!

 

[Crashman]

I believe the Asus board used Award BIOS 4.51, and the MSI board used Pheonix BIOS.

Asus made a lot of OEM boards, like the ones found in many Hewett Packards and Sony Viaos.

<font color=blue>Watts mean squat if you don't have quality!</font color=blue>