Question Dipping my toes in 11th gen Intel

[punkncat]

Building a little project box and checking out 11th gen Intel at the same time. The main driving factors in the decision revolve around the lack of GPU to purchase and wanting to try the new Xe/Iris graphics. To that end, I selected the CPU specifically for the UHD 750 (against availability and price).

i5 11600K w/ Noctua low profile cooler
MSI Z590I MEG Unify

I have not found/decided on the case I want to use for this build, yet. I had in mind something like the InWin Chopin but they don't offer a PSU strong enough for a build of this draw. I rounded out the rest of the build with some items I already had on hand.
Intel 545(?) M.2 SSD
XPG 2x8GB 2667 C16 DDR 4
..and my test bench PSU for the moment. The couple of above items will be replaced shortly. I want to target 29xx+ low latency and a gen4 NVME.

I built her on the motherboard box last night. Wanted to give a few first off and fresh impressions.
It loaded right away into BIOS. XMP profile 1 was on automatically. It also does something called "Game Mode Boost" for the CPU. I didn't have enough time last night to see exactly what that is/does. It did not initially see the M.2 drive (because I put it in the wrong slot), as it requires slot 1 to be populated before slot 2. This particular board will hold (2) M.2 drives on a "riser", and think they both will do gen4.

Right away a couple of things to note. MAKE SURE that the OS usb is absolutely day zero current. I "messed up" the first install and utilized an older USB I have with the OS version that doesn't require you to come up with (3) questions and all that mess. I chased various issues with the M.2 slot, drivers, BSOD, loss of OS(drive) every driver install restart which would bump to BIOS...it was a super duper hassle. As I was loading in mobo drivers there was one sound driver that boinked the sound entirely. I opted to do a fresh and clean install from a current version and (much of) the issue went away...it makes total sense being the motherboard and CPU haven't been on the market long.

I still ended up having to utilize the Intel Driver tool for a couple of small things, I found out that you MUST install the Thunderbolt manager program or it will leave a "USB Device" with no driver in Device Manager. The SSD had to have a firmware update in order to run properly, which seemed to stop the BSOD/loss of OS issue I was having prior. There was also a new BIOS update out already for improvement on microcode and some things to do with i9 CPU, so got that squared away.

I haven't had much time on it yet. I was able to run a couple of super simple benchmarks last night and have to say that I am SUPER impressed with this 11600K single thread performance. In spite of being a 6/12 CPU it nearly keeps up with my 2700X in multi thread bench in CPU-Z. I ran a Cinebench as a stress test. Temps never broke 90C, even with the small Noctua cooler. The stated boost on this one is 4.9 without doing any OC, and I was seeing 4.85 pop up readily in Task Manager. Idle temps I am not sure on yet, but while it was background downloading and I was surfing audio working at the sound driver(s) it was running mid 40C.
Of note, the VRM on this model are quite robust, and they are warm. Not that you would notice once inside a case but they varied from just hot to bordering on painful under load.
I haven't had enough time to form any manner of opinion on the integrated graphics.

I am excited to see what this thing will do...

 

[Why_Me]

Are you using Gear 1 or Gear 2 for your RAM settings?

 

[punkncat]

Are you using Gear 1 or Gear 2 for your RAM settings?

Lol, I have no idea what you mean. If it's something specific to the chipset I don't recall seeing it....

 

[geofelt]

I had a similar experience with a i7-11700K.
I used a noctua nh-l12 low profile cooler.
Stress testing with CPU-Z bench, top temps were in the 65c. range.
With the new turbo mechanism boosting the best cores when needed, you no longer get any real advantage to overclocking.
For testing, the integrated graphics worked ok.
I splurged on a Samsung 980 PRO and a as ssd benchmark gave it a score of 9385.
The pcie 4.0 really seems to work.

If one needs/wants a cpu upgrade now, I think 11th gen intel is a very good way to go.
Particularly with included integrated graphics that gets you going until graphics cards become reasonable.

Next year, though the story may be different with the advent of DDR5 and new processors and chipsets from both intel and ryzen.

 

[punkncat]

I had a similar experience with a i7-11700K.
I used a noctua nh-l12 low profile cooler.
Stress testing with CPU-Z bench, top temps were in the 65c. range.
With the new turbo mechanism boosting the best cores when needed, you no longer get any real advantage to overclocking.
For testing, the integrated graphics worked ok.
I splurged on a Samsung 980 PRO and a as ssd benchmark gave it a score of 9385.
The pcie 4.0 really seems to work.

If one needs/wants a cpu upgrade now, I think 11th gen intel is a very good way to go.
Particularly with included integrated graphics that gets you going until graphics cards become reasonable.

Next year, though the story may be different with the advent of DDR5 and new processors and chipsets from both intel and ryzen.

I thought really hard about the 11700K and probably would have pulled on the 11900K had it been in stock and available. It likely would have blown the crud out of thermals for it's projected (short term) use.
The integrated graphics along with the performance based against other common (but unavailable) Ryzen G series was the reason it got my nod. I know the Vega graphics are better BUT nothing that even comes close performance wise is available...even the lowly R3 G model was priced with a $50 premium (and not doing the $20 off mobo).

This unit is slated to be my main gaming rig, but in order for me to move it into that spot I really need another mid to high end GPU.

 

[Why_Me]

Lol, I have no idea what you mean. If it's something specific to the chipset I don't recall seeing it....

In your bios you will see an option .. Gear 1 and Gear 2. Gear 1 runs your memory at 1:1 ... which is faster btw.

 

[punkncat]

In your bios you will see an option .. Gear 1 and Gear 2. Gear 1 runs your memory at 1:1 ... which is faster btw.

Thanks, I get an idea of what you are talking about (esp in relation to AM4) and think this targets 29xx RAM speed. The placeholder ones I have in the system now won't run beyond 2667. They were left overs from my first Ryzen build(s) as the motherboards were so picky about it. They were on the QVL for the boards I selected.

 

[punkncat]

I had a similar experience with a i7-11700K.

Have you run across any issues with HDMI sound?

For some reason the adapter keeps stating "Speakers(unknown)" and will not play sound out the monitor speakers I have connected.
The first that this issue arose was when I was installing a Realtek driver and something called Nahimic was included in the package. Ever since installing that driver I cannot get HDMI sound to work reliably. Not only does it not show up, but the device manager doesn't show the display sound device either.

 

[Why_Me]

Have you run across any issues with HDMI sound?

For some reason the adapter keeps stating "Speakers(unknown)" and will not play sound out the monitor speakers I have connected.
The first that this issue arose was when I was installing a Realtek driver and something called Nahimic was included in the package. Ever since installing that driver I cannot get HDMI sound to work reliably. Not only does it not show up, but the device manager doesn't show the display sound device either.

Open search.
Type "System Configuration"
Press the tab "Services"
Search for "Nahimic service" or press 'n' to fast search.
Disable the check mark, to disable it.

 

[punkncat]

Open search.
Type "System Configuration"
Press the tab "Services"
Search for "Nahimic service" or press 'n' to fast search.
Disable the check mark, to disable it.

I did forget to mention that I lost that with the clean install. In spite of it being gone I am having an issue in which if I don't have the monitor with speakers on, at turn on, it does the above. About 50/50 it will not come back to HDMI after using the rear speaker 3.5 plug.
The "fix" appears to be to power down. Unplug the HDMI and wait about 30 seconds. Plug the HDMI back in, power on the monitor, then boot the computer. Sound works.

I figure it's probably just a BIOS update or Windows thing away? Maybe? (lol)

 

[Why_Me]

I did forget to mention that I lost that with the clean install. In spite of it being gone I am having an issue in which if I don't have the monitor with speakers on, at turn on, it does the above. About 50/50 it will not come back to HDMI after using the rear speaker 3.5 plug.
The "fix" appears to be to power down. Unplug the HDMI and wait about 30 seconds. Plug the HDMI back in, power on the monitor, then boot the computer. Sound works.

I figure it's probably just a BIOS update or Windows thing away? Maybe? (lol)

The last bios for those boards was March 31st and that was for 11 gen microcodes update. I'm leaning towards Windows update.

 

[Why_Me]

https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/support/MEG-Z590I-UNIFY

 

[punkncat]

https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/support/MEG-Z590I-UNIFY

Already on 14, but thank you for the link.

 

[punkncat]

A couple of results for those interested in comparing.
Keep in mind that this rig is "hindered" by the 2667 RAM speed and the low profile cooler. It is possibly "helped" by currently being open air. Ambient is 74F/23C

Cinebench R15
Open GL 78.21 CPU 1731 Temps reached 83C before complete

Cinebench R20
CPU 4271 Temps go to 100C fairly quickly. Throttles back to 4.5-6 as temps bounce to 98-100 (This falls right in the middle of 2700X results)

Prime 95
The CPU starts the test at 4.7-ish and quickly settles in at 4.58 as measured by task manager. Temps run to about 86C and stabilize but fan 100%

Sniper Elite 2
I loaded this game in just to check what the iGPU has. It was playable at 720/low. Default 1080/medium stuttered too much not to be distracting. Fans never rose to a notable level as with the above benchmark tests

YouTube streaming
I put on the typical "Costa Rica" 4K demo videos, running at 1080/60. When in default view it runs flawlessly with no notable stutter. Full screen has a super small amount and particularly during camera pan. Other consumption style videos, music video, talking head, etc. runs flawlessly, even full screen.

 

[geofelt]

Have you run across any issues with HDMI sound?

For some reason the adapter keeps stating "Speakers(unknown)" and will not play sound out the monitor speakers I have connected.
The first that this issue arose was when I was installing a Realtek driver and something called Nahimic was included in the package. Ever since installing that driver I cannot get HDMI sound to work reliably. Not only does it not show up, but the device manager doesn't show the display sound device either.

I have had no problems either with the motherboard sound and a 5.1 system, or testing the tv/monitor stereo speakers attached via hdmi.
I installed the sound software that came with the motherboard driver cd, including the Nahimic(new to me).
In testing just now, I discovered that I had not set up 5.1 in speaker properties.
Since doing so, all seems to run perfectly.

 

[punkncat]

I have had no problems either with the motherboard sound and a 5.1 system, or testing the tv/monitor stereo speakers attached via hdmi.
I installed the sound software that came with the motherboard driver cd, including the Nahimic(new to me).
In testing just now, I discovered that I had not set up 5.1 in speaker properties.
Since doing so, all seems to run perfectly.

I am not certain (yet) that this issue isn't localized to the monitor I am utilizing. Headphones work fine in the speaker jack and detects them any time. With the HDMI I have to do the above every time I start the machine. I will find out more when I can get it moved into a case and take to (other) devices in the house that use HDMI sound to see if the issue follows. I have already tried multiple different cables.

I still haven't figured out exactly what that Nahimic thing does...it appears to be some bluetooth speaker thing?

 

[g-unit1111]

I'm building a mini ITX rig and I have been having a hard time deciding whether to get an 11th gen Intel CPU or go with a Ryzen 3600X. I think the deal breaker might be the price / availability of ITX motherboards for Z590 and B560. A B550 right now is about 1/2 the cost of the Z590 equivalent. Right now I'm in no hurry to build but am taking a wait and see approach.

 

[punkncat]

I'm building a mini ITX rig and I have been having a hard time deciding whether to get an 11th gen Intel CPU or go with a Ryzen 3600X. I think the deal breaker might be the price / availability of ITX motherboards for Z590 and B560. A B550 right now is about 1/2 the cost of the Z590 equivalent. Right now I'm in no hurry to build but am taking a wait and see approach.

The Z590 boards just HAVE to be robust, and it costs. According to Steve over at Gamers Nexus the 11600K I am using is actually pulling well into 250+ W range under heavy load.
I had envisioned this build as being in a super small case (Chopin), but am unable to readily find a 'pico' that will provide the wattage I need and an 8 pin CPU connector. After having installed this inside the Rajintek case I previously had my R7 1700 build in (same GTX1080) I find that the concern turns to heat. I can already see that the low profile Noctua I selected is going to be too small for sustained loads.
My other current concern is that the "wattage calculator" sites don't have info for the 11th gen yet. After watching Steve's review I am not certain that 600W along with the GPU is actually giving the overhead I like to have.

While looking I was seeing the B550 boards outfitted with the features I would want (in an ATX) were pricing in the high $2 to low 300.
My other current concern was building with (say) a 5800X and then having a GPU failure....both of my 1080's are getting to be 4+ years old now and have been worked some. The available G series Ryzen are either priced out of the market or simply can't be found.

 

[geofelt]

What is your need for the tiniest of itx cases?
Love those ITX builds, I have done a few, and they are a challenge.

A truly small ITX case is not going to have good airflow for cooling either the graphics card or the cpu.
To some extent this will solve your power problem.
The new turbo modes kick in when there is an abundance of cpu cooling capability.
That allows voltage to increase along with increased power consumption.
Perhaps a case like the thermaltake 100 might do.
https://www.newegg.com/thermaltake-...-_-thermaltake-_-9SIA8EFDTN3776&source=region

 

[g-unit1111]

The Z590 boards just HAVE to be robust, and it costs. According to Steve over at Gamers Nexus the 11600K I am using is actually pulling well into 250+ W range under heavy load.
I had envisioned this build as being in a super small case (Chopin), but am unable to readily find a 'pico' that will provide the wattage I need and an 8 pin CPU connector. After having installed this inside the Rajintek case I previously had my R7 1700 build in (same GTX1080) I find that the concern turns to heat. I can already see that the low profile Noctua I selected is going to be too small for sustained loads.
My other current concern is that the "wattage calculator" sites don't have info for the 11th gen yet. After watching Steve's review I am not certain that 600W along with the GPU is actually giving the overhead I like to have.

While looking I was seeing the B550 boards outfitted with the features I would want (in an ATX) were pricing in the high $2 to low 300.
My other current concern was building with (say) a 5800X and then having a GPU failure....both of my 1080's are getting to be 4+ years old now and have been worked some. The available G series Ryzen are either priced out of the market or simply can't be found.

Yeah one of the hard parts of building a mini ITX rig is finding the right PSU. There's a lot more choices now than when I first built one a few years ago, then rebuilt last year. The other hard part is how insanely expensive ITX motherboards are. That is one incentive for going with AMD over Intel in this regard. Intel CPUs are cheap but the motherboards are expensive.

What is your need for the tiniest of itx cases?
Love those ITX builds, I have done a few, and they are a challenge.

For me this is something that I've wanted to do for a while. They are a challenge and I've done them before. But I've wanted to build a console-size PC forever and now that I have a graphics card from my full upgrade last year I have an excuse to build one.

 

[punkncat]

What is your need for the tiniest of itx cases?
Love those ITX builds, I have done a few, and they are a challenge.

A truly small ITX case is not going to have good airflow for cooling either the graphics card or the cpu.
To some extent this will solve your power problem.
The new turbo modes kick in when there is an abundance of cpu cooling capability.
That allows voltage to increase along with increased power consumption.
Perhaps a case like the thermaltake 100 might do.
https://www.newegg.com/thermaltake-tower-100-black-edition-mini-tower/p/N82E16811133443?item=9SIA8EFDTN3776&nm_mc=knc-googleadwords&cm_mmc=knc-googleadwords-_-cases (computer cases - atx form)--thermaltake--9SIA8EFDTN3776&source=region

That case looks like it would fit the needs of that fellow looking into a fish tank pc, lol.

I like mITX and have utilized various builds with them over the years. The boards are feature packed and with shorter traces (and such) often offer better performance than the ATX counterparts. Even things such as only having (2) RAM slots is helpful with high speed sticks.

I wanted to use this in the small case, on integrated graphics, for the main TV to stream from. The room is large enough that I have some issue with controller lag on the gaming rig that has been at this station. My vision was to use this there for the next few months in hopes that GPU market will correct and then moving it wholesale into a larger and more appropriate case and water cooling it. I would then take the gaming rig (which happens to also be ITX) and outfit it with a G series Ryzen and put it back on streaming duty inside the aforementioned Chopin.

edit- and another poignant aspect of my "upgrade path" is that...if I purchase this here, and that there, I can piece myself together a nice system without getting on wifey radar. If I go out and drop 2 grand on a nice build in one go, she would have me strung up, lol

 

[punkncat]

Yeah one of the hard parts of building a mini ITX rig is finding the right PSU. There's a lot more choices now than when I first built one a few years ago, then rebuilt last year. The other hard part is how insanely expensive ITX motherboards are. That is one incentive for going with AMD over Intel in this regard. Intel CPUs are cheap but the motherboards are expensive.

Yes, the value proposition lies in mATX, but then you start getting into cases that are 15+ inches on a side, and often the mobo that are well priced are nearly featureless. ITX often has built in WiFi/BT and decent connectivity options for A/V due to the prevalent use as HTPC. It is one segment where the manufacturers are paying attention to the market. Lol, hardly anything looks worse with the furniture in your nice living room than a mATX tower sitting next to the EC.

I had considered a case like the Grandia by Silverstone but that thing is BUTT UGLY in person. Air flow is a joke too....

 

[g-unit1111]

Yes, the value proposition lies in mATX, but then you start getting into cases that are 15+ inches on a side, and often the mobo that are well priced are nearly featureless. ITX often has built in WiFi/BT and decent connectivity options for A/V due to the prevalent use as HTPC. It is one segment where the manufacturers are paying attention to the market. Lol, hardly anything looks worse with the furniture in your nice living room than a mATX tower sitting next to the EC.

Yeah that's the best part about mITX. I used to have my tower PC sitting right next to my TV then I built my previous ITX PC and it was so much better.

I had considered a case like the Grandia by Silverstone but that thing is BUTT UGLY in person. Air flow is a joke too....

Yeah for sure. I'm looking at the Fractal Node 202 for this build and it's definitely going to be a challenge to build in, but I'm confident it can be done.

 

[punkncat]

Yeah that's the best part about mITX. I used to have my tower PC sitting right next to my TV then I built my previous ITX PC and it was so much better.



Yeah for sure. I'm looking at the Fractal Node 202 for this build and it's definitely going to be a challenge to build in, but I'm confident it can be done.

That is an enviable choice for a case. They look very nice. Thermals could be fun, as with any ITX build.

Don't overlook cases by the likes of Lian Li. I utilized a case out of their Q series some years back and it was a beauty to look at. I love simple styling and single color, stuff like brushed AL for the living room. Or the ability to hide them somewhere, like behind the TV.

 

[g-unit1111]

That is an enviable choice for a case. They look very nice. Thermals could be fun, as with any ITX build.

Don't overlook cases by the likes of Lian Li. I utilized a case out of their Q series some years back and it was a beauty to look at. I love simple styling and single color, stuff like brushed AL for the living room. Or the ability to hide them somewhere, like behind the TV.

Yeah I like the PC011 and I would actually consider doing a build in one, and maybe I will move all my components over to one if my S340 dies.

But for this particular application I don't know if Lian Li makes a case that would fit my needs.

That case looks like it would fit the needs of that fellow looking into a fish tank pc, lol.

Yeah it does look like my brother's aquarium, LOL.