Direct3D 10/11 Natively Implemented on Linux

[willgart]

[citation][nom]doorspawn[/nom]What we need is more competition, a newcomer 3D API (or many of them), designed from scratch.[/citation]
The cost associated to develop on a different API is too high. OpenGL and DirectX its enough.
Microsoft works hard with the gaming industry and the vendors, the competition come from the consoles. So the evolution is good on this side.
and OpenGL and DirectX are really close, from feature and performance point of view. and both are correctly supported by the GPU and the drivers. So its false to say DirectX is far superior.

 

[Shin-san]

That's insane, if Direct3D 10/11 would be faster than OpenGL on a non-Microsoft platform

 

[-Fran-]

[citation][nom]Shin-san[/nom]That's insane, if Direct3D 10/11 would be faster than OpenGL on a non-Microsoft platform[/citation]

It's actually a very important thing to MS... You could fine tune your PC to a point where you would get monster performance loading exactly what you need from the boot loader. A special kernel with gallium + X (if needed at all) + drivers for networking/pads/etc and a GUI to select the game.

Cheers!

 

[dmuir]

[citation][nom]RicardoK[/nom]Actually, it's not going to be made by Microsoft. Also, it will run through WINE!! So, no, it's not LINUX native.[/citation]

It will run through WINE, so YES, it is running native.

 

[dEAne]

ok very good.

 

[doorspawn]

[citation][nom]willgart[/nom]The cost associated to develop on a different API is too high.[/citation]If so then just pick one. Nobody's forcing you to support all compatible APIs. Most games only support 1 right now.

The only added cost is to the API designer. Game devs etc can only have things either as good (stick with GL and/or D3D) or better (a new API becomes better than those two).

[citation][nom]willgart[/nom]Microsoft works hard with the gaming industry and the vendors, the competition come from the consoles. So the evolution is good on this side.[/citation]
We're talking about API competition. The console manufacturers can't pick anything other than GL or D3D.
While it's better than just having 1, a duopoly is still not very competitive. And for all of us that don't use MS, it's been a monopoly.

[citation][nom]willgart[/nom]OpenGL and DirectX are really close, from feature and performance point of view. and both are correctly supported by the GPU and the drivers. So its false to say DirectX is far superior.[/citation]

Well I don't know much about D3D since I write for linux, but when ID etc switch away from the open software they support there must be a major advantage, and I don't think they're selling out to Microsoft.

OpenGL has had slack periods recently (eg the 3.0 debacle where they dragged on forever then deleted most of the improvements developers were waiting on).


But this might all be moot sometime soon.
Graphics cards are getting flexible enough you can almost program a fast rendering engine yourself instead of using the standard rendering pathway.

 

[randomizer]

[citation][nom]mlopinto2k1[/nom]Hmm.. lose Windows in favor of DirectX 10 and 11 on linux? IT'S MICROSOFT'S API! Microsoft isn't going to just make an API so people can reap it's benefits in Linux.[/citation]
As I understand it, and I may be wrong, but MS doesn't have a choice. APIs can't be patented. The implementation on the other hand may have patentable components. That's why Wine developers have steered clear of re-implementing the same API features and why it's difficult to get many games working through Wine.

[citation][nom]mlopinto2k1[/nom]If EVERYONE is just gonna migrate to Linux, they will stop developing it. It'll never happen.[/citation]

People will not just up and leave Windows. i dare say a number of people here who are saying that they will ditch Windows just as soon as they can run games on Linux will come crying back to Windows within a couple of hours. Linux is not Windows, and requires a different way of thinking and doing things. It is fundamentally different to Windows.

[citation][nom]ohim[/nom]Funny .. the windows guys accept the linux guys with ease and look at them with indifference[/citation]

I beg to differ, and I'm a "windows guy" (actually I use and appreciate both, but use Windows more often at the moment) There are alot of arrogant Windows fanboys who, firstly, don't have much of an understanding about their own operating system, and secondly don't have a clue about Linux either, but pretend that they do. You appear to be one of these people, but it's a very big group so don't feel too bad.

[citation][nom]ohim[/nom] .. but the linux looks so full of itself .. oh gosh how bad windows is, let`s kill the big bad wolf, they charge us money for the OS.. (well shoot the clerk that seels you bread at the local store for charing you money for it).[/citation]

See now this is a very common statement by somebody who doesn't understand the concept of libre software. Not all Linux users have an issue with the price of anything (except that they can fulfil their needs without cost). You can sell Linux distros that are freely downloadable and you are not discouraged from doing so. FOSS is about free as in freedom, not free beer. I'm sure you've heard that said ad nauseum, but you obviously still don't understand it.

[citation][nom]ohim[/nom]there are loads of ppl like me that are very pleased with their windows and will never even look at a linux platform.[/citation]

Then why on earth are you trying to make an argument about Linux or Linux users if you've never even looked at it? Obviously you are pleased with what you have. You've never used anything else to know if you're using the right tool for the job (OSs are just tools after all, and you should always use the best tool for you, not for someone else)

[citation][nom]ohim[/nom]And i find it extremely funny how linux tries to be a windows[/citation]

This is probably the most ignorant statement in your entire post and shows your complete and utter lack of understanding.

[citation][nom]ohim[/nom]i mean ok let`s dump the command line installers[/citation]

Most distributions do not use a pure command line for installing the base system, but many still use a text-based installer. Further configuration is often entirely on the command-line. Ever tried Arch Linux? Debian Testing perhaps? OH no, you haven't even looked at Linux, I forgot.

[citation][nom]ohim[/nom]let`s do it more user friendly like windows has[/citation]

"User friendly" is a term used interchangeably with "what I'm used to" and therefore Windows is only user friendly because it is what you are used to. "User friendly" is probably one of the most meaningless terms ever created to discuss a user interface design. There are billions of potential users. Which user do you refer to when you say "user friendly"? Which user is the interface being friendly to? Me? You? A systems administrator? A 90-year-old woman in a nursing home?

[citation][nom]ohim[/nom]let`s make the menus look more like windows for users to transition with ease[/citation]

I haven't really seen any major distribution that looks like Windows. But even if there was one, how at all does this represent the goals of "Linux" (which is, at its most broad definition, simply the kernel and GNU toolchain). Did Windows copy the X Window System (which Linux distros typically use) which pre-dated it? After all, Windows is a late comer to the GUI arena.

In case you missed the link I posted earlier, I'll provide it again: http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm

That article is 5-6 years old, and yet amazingly the dead horse still gets beaten to a pulp with the same old arguments from the same people who have no idea about anything outside of their Zone of Familiarity.

 

[kronos_cornelius]

I have more faith in Android making Linux a more attractive gaming platform than I do from implementing Direct3D. As many have commented, Microsoft won't let this happen, so some of the time and effort will be wasted to lawyers. Sims and NFS shift are already available on Android phones.

And Steam is already being ported to Linux. Just be patient.

 

[ScoobyJooby-Jew]

[citation][nom]freiheitner[/nom]"not on Linux until this week" -- except that it's still not released and WINE has been trying to run Windows apps on Linux for something like 12 years and, as far as I am aware, they still aren't 100% compatible apps written for the initial Windows 95 release much less DirectX 11.[/citation]
You are correct. My Linksys AE-1000 does work in linux. Ubuntu 10.04 specifically. It's just not supported after a fresh install with generic drivers. In Win7, I didnt install the drivers off the Linksys CD. Windows recognized the device and ran with it.

 

[kronos_cornelius]

[citation][nom]randomizer[/nom]As I understand it, and I may be wrong, but MS doesn't have a choice. APIs can't be patented. The implementation on the other hand may have patentable components. That's why Wine developers have steered clear of re-implementing the same API features and why it's difficult to get many games working through Wine.People will not just up and leave Windows. i dare say a number of people here who are saying that they will ditch Windows just as soon as they can run games on Linux will come crying back to Windows within a couple of hours. Linux is not Windows, and requires a different way of thinking and doing things. It is fundamentally different to Windows.I beg to differ, and I'm a "windows guy" (actually I use and appreciate both, but use Windows more often at the moment) There are alot of arrogant Windows fanboys who, firstly, don't have much of an understanding about their own operating system, and secondly don't have a clue about Linux either, but pretend that they do. You appear to be one of these people, but it's a very big group so don't feel too bad.See now this is a very common statement by somebody who doesn't understand the concept of libre software. Not all Linux users have an issue with the price of anything (except that they can fulfil their needs without cost). You can sell Linux distros that are freely downloadable and you are not discouraged from doing so. FOSS is about free as in freedom, not free beer. I'm sure you've heard that said ad nauseum, but you obviously still don't understand it.Then why on earth are you trying to make an argument about Linux or Linux users if you've never even looked at it? Obviously you are pleased with what you have. You've never used anything else to know if you're using the right tool for the job (OSs are just tools after all, and you should always use the best tool for you, not for someone else)This is probably the most ignorant statement in your entire post and shows your complete and utter lack of understanding.Most distributions do not use a pure command line for installing the base system, but many still use a text-based installer. Further configuration is often entirely on the command-line. Ever tried Arch Linux? Debian Testing perhaps? OH no, you haven't even looked at Linux, I forgot. "User friendly" is a term used interchangeably with "what I'm used to" and therefore Windows is only user friendly because it is what you are used to. "User friendly" is probably one of the most meaningless terms ever created to discuss a user interface design. There are billions of potential users. Which user do you refer to when you say "user friendly"? Which user is the interface being friendly to? Me? You? A systems administrator? A 90-year-old woman in a nursing home?I haven't really seen any major distribution that looks like Windows. But even if there was one, how at all does this represent the goals of "Linux" (which is, at its most broad definition, simply the kernel and GNU toolchain). Did Windows copy the X Window System (which Linux distros typically use) which pre-dated it? After all, Windows is a late comer to the GUI arena.In case you missed the link I posted earlier, I'll provide it again: http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htmThat article is 5-6 years old, and yet amazingly the dead horse still gets beaten to a pulp with the same old arguments from the same people who have no idea about anything outside of their Zone of Familiarity.[/citation]


Thanks for taking the time to answer back. There are so many misinformed statements with that post I did not feel like educating him. So thanks.

 

[ericburnby]

Wait, people use Linux?

Direct 3D 10/11 will make people drop Windows? Really? We're going to see hundreds of millions of Linux users now?

Who cares. All my engineering software and development tools are Windows based. Everyone I know who runs a business has specific software that's Windows only.

I've played with Linux and found it a waste of time as it doesn't do anything I need. When it does, I'll look at it again (if it ever does).

 

[megamanx00]

Open GL is just so far behind now it isn't funny.

 

[pollom]

we demand bench!!!

 

[descendency]

[citation][nom]randomizer[/nom]There are alot of arrogant _______ fanboys who, firstly, don't have much of an understanding about their own _________, and secondly don't have a clue about ________ either, but pretend that they do. [/citation]
Fixed for more general accuracy.

 

[randomizer]

[citation][nom]ScoobyJooby-Jew[/nom]You are correct. My Linksys AE-1000 does work in linux. Ubuntu 10.04 specifically. It's just not supported after a fresh install with generic drivers. In Win7, I didnt install the drivers off the Linksys CD. Windows recognized the device and ran with it.[/citation]
Windows doesn't recognise my Wireless adapter. It doesn't like my scanner unless I use hacked Vista drivers. My printer needs drivers that are buried somewhere in Windows Update that I can't access straight away. I first need to tell Windows to download all printer drivers. Maybe I should go on a rant about how Windows is not ready for the mainstream or how the year of the Windows desktop is not yet here.

Moral of the story: hardware support is not universal for any operating system.

[citation][nom]descendency[/nom]Fixed for more general accuracy.[/citation]

Thanks :lol:

 

[ScoobyJooby-Jew]

[citation][nom]randomizer[/nom]Windows doesn't recognise my Wireless adapter. It doesn't like my scanner unless I use hacked Vista drivers. My printer needs drivers that are buried somewhere in Windows Update that I can't access straight away. I first need to tell Windows to download all printer drivers. Maybe I should go on a rant about how Windows is not ready for the mainstream or how the year of the Windows desktop is not yet here.Moral of the story: hardware support is not universal for any operating system.Thanks[/citation]
valid point.

 

[pocketdrummer]

I don't think anyone appreciates what they have when they use Win7. I've used OSX, Win7, and Ubuntu, and I can firmly say that I've utterly destroyed Ubuntu via simple tasks (like installing applications using the built in application manager) more times than OSX and Win7 combined.

I keep trying to see what everyone is raving about. However, I don't believe I've found it quite yet.

 

[nonoitall]

[citation][nom]mlopinto2k1[/nom]There will always be Windows and there will always be Linux, for now.[/citation]

 

[cliffro]

[citation][nom]randomizer[/nom]Windows doesn't recognise my Wireless adapter. It doesn't like my scanner unless I use hacked Vista drivers. My printer needs drivers that are buried somewhere in Windows Update that I can't access straight away. I first need to tell Windows to download all printer drivers. Maybe I should go on a rant about how Windows is not ready for the mainstream or how the year of the Windows desktop is not yet here.Moral of the story: hardware support is not universal for any operating system.Thanks[/citation]

Honestly I think its a combination of OS and Manufacturer at fault. OR our choice in hardware.

I have an Aopen Wireless NIC, worked spectacular in XP 32bit, moved to Vista 64bit and Aopen did not have 64bit drivers, RaLink(chipmaker) did but it would lock up windows if I had too many connections open. Who is to blame for that? Windows? No, both RaLink/Aopen and my choice of Wireless NIC were to blame. It's no longer used.

 

[N.Broekhuijsen]

[citation][nom]ohim[/nom]Funny .. the windows guys accept the linux guys with ease and look at them with indifference .. but the linux looks so full of itself .. oh gosh how bad windows is, let`s kill the big bad wolf, they charge us money for the OS.. (well shoot the clerk that seels you bread at the local store for charing you money for it). Or look we are bright enough that we can install a program trough command line in linux ... seriously .. me personally i have no use at all of linux and will never be a part of my OS. The thing that Linux users never got to understand is that the market has room for bouth of them, and that there are loads of ppl like me that are very pleased with their windows and will never even look at a linux platform. And i find it extremely funny how linux tries to be a windows, i mean ok let`s dump the command line installers let`s do it more user friendly like windows has, let`s make the menus look more like windows for users to transition with ease, let`s install DX from windows in linux ... what will be next that they`ll take from windows ?[/citation]So the way you describe it... you must be an apple fanboi!!

 

[sonofliberty08]

i ♥ linux

 

[ericburnby]

[citation][nom]randomizer[/nom]Windows doesn't recognise my Wireless adapter. It doesn't like my scanner unless I use hacked Vista drivers. My printer needs drivers that are buried somewhere in Windows Update that I can't access straight away. I first need to tell Windows to download all printer drivers. Maybe I should go on a rant about how Windows is not ready for the mainstream or how the year of the Windows desktop is not yet here.Moral of the story: hardware support is not universal for any operating system.
Thanks[/citation]

Wow. You must be using some really crappy obscure hardware or you simply don't know how to install an OS.

I have Win 7 on 5 of my own PC's (3 desktops and 2 laptops). Every single one of them works perfectly and all my hardware was supported. At work we have over 10 PC's also running Win 7. To make matters worse, a lot of our hardware at work is actually obscure/rare (interfaces to test equipment like scopes, generators and the like). And all our work PC's work great. For example, we use a network printer and only installed the drivers on a single PC - the rest of the PC's simply downloaded the drivers from the first PC we installed the printer to.

If you think Win 7 isn't ready for the masses, then what would you say about Linux?

 

[devious_x]

This is what I've been waiting for for years, I can finally eliminate windows from my system completely.

 

[gogogadgetliver]

It seems like there would be some intellectual property issues here. Can someone explain why there are not?

 

[fromage2323]

whatever, win7 is actually good. all those people saying they only keep it around for games are people that love linux in the first place. i switched to linux and managed to keep using it for about a year, and in that time i realized it just wasnt worth the hassle. if you want an average app thats easy to get on windows you have to search like everywhere, compile, customize, or even code it yourself on linux. linux is a hobby. windows is an OS.