Disappearing contents of Windows Installer folder in Windows XP Pro SP3 OEM

[JarekS]

Hi

Here is my case. I decided to change file system from FAT32 to NTFS of system partition where resides Windows XP Professional SP3 OEM. I also decided to not to use any special tool for this purpose, I simply wanted to do it myself.

First I backed up all the files from system partition including hidden and system files. Next I formatted the system partition to NTFS file system, installed Windows XP boot loader, I also installed Windows 7 Boot Manager, so that the system partition supports now booting to this operating system. But that’s not the case.

I copied back all files from the backup to the system partition and then created an image of this partition.

I run the system and everything worked perfectly.

Then I decided to install a new software. I installed several applications and everything was fine. However when I tried to install one more software, the installer refused to uninstall previous version of this software. I also noticed that some resources, such as icons disappeared and some applications started to work in foreign language.

I’ve spent several days on searching for the reason and a solution for this case, I’ve made tens of experiments. Here is what I’ve found out.

The cause of the issue is a “Windows Installer” application. For some reason it deletes all contents of the "%systemroot%\Installer” folder and it changes all user and group rights to this folder and it removes all file attributes from the folder. It commits this crime only once. After this it works normally and installs new software without deleting the folder contents. Not all software installers are packed as Windows Installer archives, some use non-Microsoft installers, in such case the problem is not present.

The problem arises only when installing software which makes use of “Windows Installer” system service, which executes "%systemroot%\system32\msiexec.exe" file. Files with file name extensions such as “MSI” and “MSP” are self extracting compressed archives which are extracted with Windows Installer "msiexec.exe", indirectly, because this file is used automatically by Windows Installer service, which is run automatically by the system when it’s needed. I carried out a test and found out that if I just manually run the service, for the first time, after the file system change to NTFS, the contents of “Installer” folder are deleted as I’ve described above.

Files from "%systemroot%\Installer” folder are very important. They contain installer files required to uninstall software and update already installed software, of course only software that makes use of Windows Installer. They also contain configuration files and some resources, such as icons.

I’ve found out that this case has nothing to do with user and group rights to files and folders, which is present in NTFS file system only. FAT32 doesn’t have such functionality. I tried all combinations with no positive result.

I’ve found out that this case has nothing to do with Windows registry. I made use of private utility to compare Windows registry entries exported to files of REG type after the crime with entries exported before it was committed. I found minor changes that I consider unimportant after examining them and carrying out some tests. They had no impact on the case occurrence.

I’ve found out that this case has nothing to do with file and folder creation, modification and use dates. I changed them to current date and no positive result was observed.

The only solution I’ve found, which is not satisfying for me, is to rename “Installer” folder, for example to “Installer_old”, let Windows Installer create its new “Installer” folder and then use cut and paste functions to move files from “Installer_old” to new “Installer” folder. These files won’t be deleted any more.

This is not satisfying solution, because I have to run the system to fix the problem. However I don’t want to run the system, because my system is an OEM version and I would want that it won’t detect hardware changes and saved them. I want to preserve an image of a system partition containing original system settings for a long time, where in the meantime many hardware changes will possibly take place. Microsoft permits several significant hardware changes in long time periods between each Windows activation. However I wouldn't rather believe in that.

That’s all. If you have any idea what is the primary reason of this case or know a better solution, please share it.

 

[hang-the-9]

Finding a solution and not wanting to do it won't help you much.

It did not seem like you actually re-installed Windows but rather did some disk tweaking and copied over the files? The issue there is that your original files were in FAT32 format, when copied over to NTFS, the file properties that are new to NTFS are not present in FAT32. So your files have not gotten the right permissions or date settings as you found out. It's like moving engines from car to car where one engine does not have quite all the right hoses and connections. Maybe the engine will start up fine, but then you try to use the AC and it does not work and then you find that you are leaking oil because the hose is the wrong size and leaks.

The fix is to re-install Windows clean on the NTFS partition. Or you should have used a converter tool instead of moving things in and out like you did.

 

[JarekS]

Hi

I applied my solution, but I'd like to find a better solution.

If I'd install the operating system I'd have to activate it, which I would like to avoid. Each activation is registered in Microsoft product activation service servers.

The way I converted the file system is acceptable by the system. Windows XP creates default user and group rights to files and folders that come from partitions having different file system than NTFS during file copying. Third-party tools that convert file system from FAT32 to NTFS do the same, they must apply default rights to files and folders as Windows XP does. I also made sure that the user rights are correct, because I compared them with another Windows XP installation which was created on a partition with NTFS file system.

 

[hang-the-9]

It does not matter at all how many times you activate the system, why would that matter? If the product code belongs to the system, MS does not care if you re-install the thing 20 times. I must have fully re-installed my desktop and laptops 3 times each with no issues.

You can try a repair setup of Windows, I don't think you'll be able to fix things without re-installing.

 

[JarekS]

If you don't change hardware then you are right. But each hardware change is monitored by Windows activation service. Even BIOS configuration change is recognized by Windows as hardware change. If there are too many changes, your system won't be activated and Microsoft will notify you that you might be a victim of computer piracy, that your Windows is already activated in a very different hardware configuration. Product key has only partial impact on Windows activation feature.

I've already changed several devices and I'm going to do it again soon or later. For example, my CPU was damaged and it didn't work correctly. I changed RAM memory modules and several BIOS options. I also noticed personally that each individual change of RAM memory timing settings, number of USB ports, AGP aperture size can force Windows activation and forced me to recover my system from image file. Each change accumulates, and if too many changes are noticed then product activation is started automatically. Now you see why this is so much hated feature of Windows operating systems. OEM system versions are very limited in comparison to BOX versions.

Imagine a situation where you have to change your CPU more than 1 time, or any other device more than 1 time. In such case it is better to preserve original image of the system, so that the system will notice only one hardware change.

Here is a Microsoft article about Windows activation which among others describes weight of hardware type change, which may finally start again Windows activation.

Topic: Technical Details on Microsoft Product Activation for Windows XP
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb457054.aspx

 

[USAFRet]

In such case it is better to preserve original image of the system, so that the system will notice only one hardware change.

Yes, but you're apparently not keeping the original image. You're changing from FAT2 to NTFS.
Upon the reinstall, it may or may not ask to reactivate.

But for that level change, you have to actually do a reinstall.

 

[JarekS]

This is related to hardware change only. File system change is not a hardware change. Each full Windows reinstall require product activation, that is when a partition is formatted. BTW, I seek a solution related to Windows Installer only.

I make as small number of changes as possible. I wait with another product activation as long as possible. The reason of this is explained in the article I mentioned previously.

 

[USAFRet]

Right. A file system change is different than a hardware change.

But if you want to change the underlying file system format, you pretty much need to do a full reinstall.

 

[JarekS]

That is absolutely the last thing I’d want to do.

I applied my solution and it still works correctly. Do you know anybody who changed file system without doing a full reinstall? For example, by using CONVERT.EXE tool present in Windows XP.

 

[USAFRet]

No, I do not know anyone who has changed the underlying file system, and retained everything exactly how it was before.

 

[JarekS]

Thank you for your reply.

 

[hang-the-9]

If you don't change hardware then you are right. But each hardware change is monitored by Windows activation service. Even BIOS configuration change is recognized by Windows as hardware change. If there are too many changes, your system won't be activated and Microsoft will notify you that you might be a victim of computer piracy, that your Windows is already activated in a very different hardware configuration. Product key has only partial impact on Windows activation feature.

I've already changed several devices and I'm going to do it again soon or later. For example, my CPU was damaged and it didn't work correctly. I changed RAM memory modules and several BIOS options. I also noticed personally that each individual change of RAM memory timing settings, number of USB ports, AGP aperture size can force Windows activation and forced me to recover my system from image file. Each change accumulates, and if too many changes are noticed then product activation is started automatically. Now you see why this is so much hated feature of Windows operating systems. OEM system versions are very limited in comparison to BOX versions.

Imagine a situation where you have to change your CPU more than 1 time, or any other device more than 1 time. In such case it is better to preserve original image of the system, so that the system will notice only one hardware change.

Here is a Microsoft article about Windows activation which among others describes weight of hardware type change, which may finally start again Windows activation.

Topic: Technical Details on Microsoft Product Activation for Windows XP
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb457054.aspx

I have never seen a RAM change or a BIOS change make Windows ask to activate again. It takes something like a motherboard swap or several full hardware changes like video cards a hard drive and a sound card all at once to get Windows to say you need to activate it again. But even then, just activate it again and you are set.

If there are issues with it activating, contact MS and they will clear things up. A full clean Windows setup after a major change is always better than working on a cobbled together system with old settings left over from various builds.

The only time you would run into an issue is if you are using an illegal Windows code which they will not activate again if it because inactive.

 

[JarekS]

Maybe you use BOX version. OEM version is much more restricted than BOX version of Windows XP Professional. For example OEM version can only be installed on one computer and the computer cannot be changed, BOX version also can only be installed on one computer, but it allows to change a computer, it means a significant hardware change is allowed.

Microsoft permits several significant hardware changes in long time periods between each Windows activation. However I wouldn't rather believe in that.

I wait as long as possible with next Windows Activation, in case I will have to change motherboard. Motherboard change will cause processor and memory modules change. I don't know whether Microsoft will allow me to such a big hardware change in my OEM version of Windows XP Professional SP3, even if I'd contact MS and ask MS to reset hardware history on MS servers, because it violates the license of OEM version of Windows XP Professional SP3.

I don't use any tool for disabling Windows activation service.

 

[USAFRet]

Maybe you use BOX version. OEM version is much more restricted than BOX version of Windows XP Professional. For example OEM version can only be installed on one computer, BOX version can be installed on 3 computers.

Unless you have some direct documentation stating otherwise, I believe that is incorrect.

MS licensing is a minefield, but unless you specifically bought a 3 license version (which they don't sell anymore), 1 license, 1 PC.

 

[JarekS]

Yes, you are right. I confused MS Office 2007 Home & Student BOX version license with MS Windows XP Professional SP3 BOX version license.

The right answer is that MS Windows XP Professional SP3 BOX version license allow a user to install only one copy of the operating system at a time, and the system is not bound to hardware, it means you can change a computer without violating the license. The OEM license for the operating system binds hardware to the operating system, it means it can't be installed on any other computer, for example you can't upgrade your computer by replacing motherboard, because it violates the license.

 

[JarekS]

Hi again!

I recently tested CONVERT tool present in Windows XP Professional SP3. I used the tool to convert system partition file system from FAT32 to NTFS.

I used following command:

CONVERT L: /FS:NTFS /V /NoSecurity

After the conversion the same case occurs I described in the first message.

CONVERT also changes partition’s serial number which is bad. Partition’s serial number is the only non-hardcoded device parameter which is taken into account by Windows activation service and it is a significant parameter. I personally avoided Windows activation by changing this parameter manually to original serial number. Microsoft named this parameter as “Hard Drive Volume Serial Number”. Hash value for this parameter consists of 10 bits.

See article “Technical Details on Microsoft Product Activation for Windows XP” at http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb457054.aspx.

The only difference is that I don’t get annoying unnecessary file system scanning for file system errors during loading of Windows XP after writing a big file to system partition nor after installing any application in the system. This problem was present after manual file system change from FAT32 to NTFS.

I think this case with Installer folder is a bug of Windows XP Professional SP3 and probably any other Windows XP version. The use of Microsoft CONVERT which is built-in tool doesn’t prevent from deletion of Installer folder.