Discussion Discuss among yourselves

[USAFRet]

 

[NightHawkRMX]

I have heard this too:
Oversteer scares passangers
But
Understeer scares drivers

 

[bit_user]

...

Oh, shirt!

This is great, but I can't help but quibble with the definition of torque. It makes sense in some theoretical scenario, but not practically (for obvious reasons).

I found understeer surprisingly difficult to learn how to control. If you haven't practiced countering it, there's 100% you'll do the wrong thing and dial in more steering. I've found you have to actually drill (e.g. on a skid pad) to train your brain to unwind and find grip. Otherwise, panic sets in and you understeer straight into a tree.

On that note, I've heard that most actual cases of oversteer start out as understeer. Then, I guess the front end hooks up and the rear lets go? I'm not sure if this statement presumes RWD, but I could imagine it also applying to FWD.

Threshold braking is another skill that took me some practice to get.

Anyway, the kids all have traction control, these days, so they can almost get away with ignoring all of this stuff.

 

[mymutter]

Understeer is "safer" then oversteer to the general public. When you under-steer you are shedding speed while doing it, so eventually you will find grip. This coupled with abs when they slam on their brakes due to under-steer does help a new driver alive. Oversteer by surprise leads to more accidents, which is why companies design the cars to oversteer.

Threshold braking is something that everyone should practice. My car tripods on a hard turn so i like braking to get just the wheel that's up to lock. (and yes, ABS is disabled).

If you upgrade the sway bars you can adjust your over and understeer to your liking. if you want fun, remove the front sway bar on your fwd car.....

 

[bit_user]

which is why companies design the cars to oversteer.

I'm pretty sure you meant to say "understeer". Car companies definitely design them to understeer.

So, I run slightly wider-than-spec front tires. That's all I need to dial it out, on my car.

My car tripods on a hard turn so i like braking to get just the wheel that's up to lock. (and yes, ABS is disabled).

OMG, lol. Scary. I hope you only do that in empty parking lots. Overbreaking, in that situation, would send you spinning off the road.

BTW, the only relatively modern car I ever heard of with ABS-defeat was a E39 BMW M5.

On a race track, I imagine it only ever being relevant in rain or other slippery situations. When the track is dry and you're on good tires, it's hard to hit ABS - even if you wanted - because the tires have so much traction that the brakes are the weakest link.

If you upgrade the sway bars you can adjust your over and understeer to your liking. if you want fun, remove the front sway bar on your fwd car.....

Oh, so that's how you get it to tripod.

Yeah, the usual advice is just to upgrade the rear and leave the front alone. That gives better turn-in, without being as unpredictable and dangerous as completely removing the front.

 

[mymutter]

I'm pretty sure you meant to say "understeer". Car companies definitely design them to understeer.

So, I run slightly wider-than-spec front tires. That's all I need to dial it out, on my car.


I most certainly DID mean understeer, good catch!!

as far as tripod, I build most of my cars up, so it's controllable. Currently 98 Mk III VW GLX with full BilStein and eibach suspension and hawk HPS pads front and rear (only lowered 2" )

You can program out the ABS in the computer on a lot of cars (like mine)

if your Brakes are the weakest link at the track, you don't have your car set up right and it's not safe. ON my 2800 lb car (including driver and fuel) the HPS are fine, but for other heavier cars I have had, upgraded rotors, calipers and pads are highly recommended. I mainly run on potenza's so decent but forgiving grip.

For Upgrading the rear first, it depends on the car, fwd, rwd, awd, balance, weight, etc.

the removing the front was mostly a joke, it makes most FWD totally oversteer for fun (like what you see in the Saudi Arabia drifting on highway videos)

 

[bit_user]

You messed up the quoting, BTW.

if your Brakes are the weakest link at the track, you don't have your car set up right and it's not safe.

Awww, I don't buy this. I can practically stand on the brakes, with no ABS or wheel lockup. 6-piston calipers with (I think) 265 mm AP Racing slotted rotors on 270 mm tires (Dunlop Direzza, IIRC). I think the pads were Carbotech XP10 or XP12.

In fact, some have noted that brakes have so much torque that they can rotate the tires on your wheels!