Question Disk Cloning Issues

rrreed

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May 25, 2018
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I have a computer that I've been using for some time now and it still runs pretty good. Recently I wanted to make some upgrades to it since it was still on Windows 7. I went to upgrade it to Windows 10 and I also wanted to upgrade the original 2TB hard drive to an new 2TB SSD. I thought that this process would be relatively easy but every step has been a battle so far.

I initially started with the Windows 10 upgrade and found the old upgrade tool that they had released way back. The upgrade failed multiple times with an error that seemed to be associated with the tool when multiple drives were installed in the machine. At the time I only new about one drive in the computer, which was the 2TB on that I was attempting to replace.

From here, I bought a new copy of Windows 10 and figured that I would install this on the new solid state and then just manually move things over. Whenever I tried to install the fresh copy with only the new solid state drive connected to the motherboard, it only gave me the option to build the OS on a 250GB drive that was available.

After doing some digging inside of the machine, I found out that there was also another memory device hiding under my graphics card that was plugged into one of my PCIe slots. This seemed to be the source of the 250GB showing up in the Windows 10 installer. This device seemed to have memory that included an extra System and Recovery drive on it. I removed this device from it's slot and nothing showed up when I ran the installer. Not the old drive or the new drive. But the old drive would still boot all on it's own.

Going back to plan #1, I replaced the old hard drive into the machine and attempted an upgrade from Windows 7 again and was successful this time around since the PCIe memory device was removed. With this victory under my belt, I decided to press forward and clone the drive to the new SSD. I almost preffered this path since I wanted to keep all of my software installed anyways.

Running Macrium Reflect for the disk cloning, it failed within the first few minutes. Reflect would only give me a few lines before the failure, including: 'Checking File System', 'Gathering Windows Events', 'Clone Failed -- VerifyFileSystem Failed'. I found out that I could clone sector by sector and cloned the Recovery and System drives but the Windows C: drive would fail every time that I tried it by itself.

Trying to get creative, I also had AOMIE Backupper on this machine for taking backups and that has a cloning option as well. I attempted to clone the C: drive using this and it actually went through but the original C: Drive had 378GB of data and the newly cloned version had only 349GB. Also, the new SSD would not boot on its own. I've attempted SFC /SCANNOW and CHKDSK /R on the original drive to make sure everything was clean there and then attempted all of these cloning processes again but to no luck.

I'm unsure if this has something to do with the original PCIe device that I pulled out or if I'm doing something wrong but I really want everything on that new drive if possible. Any insight or advice would be deeply appreciated!
 

USAFRet

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Mar 16, 2013
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Bit confused here.

Are you trying to clone, and from what to what?
Or are you looking for a fresh install on an SSD?

If conditions are perfect, cloning can be great.
If they are not, don't beat your head into the wall trying to get it to work.
 

rrreed

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May 25, 2018
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Bit confused here.

Are you trying to clone, and from what to what?
Or are you looking for a fresh install on an SSD?

If conditions are perfect, cloning can be great.
If they are not, don't beat your head into the wall trying to get it to work.
I would like to clone if it's possible but I would also be willing to do a fresh install on the SSD if that is the only option that I have available. Unfortunately when I use the USB stick that came with the Windows 10 installation package, I'll boot from the USB but it doesn't show any drives available during the install unless I have the 250GB PCIe card in there. If there is a way to make the SSD show up for the installation process then I'd be happy to go that route.
 

rrreed

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full system spec?
I tried posting a screenshot but that doesn't seem to be an option. I'll type up the important information that I have from the system information:

OS: Windows 10 Pro
Version: 10.0.19043 build 19042
System Manufacturer: HP
System Model: HP Z440 Workstation
System Type: x64-based PC
Processor: Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU E5-1620 v3 @ 3.50GHz, 4 cores
BIOS Version/Date: HP M60 v01.65, 11/19/2015
SMBIOS Version: 2.8
BIOS Mode: UEFI
RAM: 16GB
Kernel DMA Protection: Off
Virtualization-Based Security: Off
 

USAFRet

Titan
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Mar 16, 2013
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I would like to clone if it's possible but I would also be willing to do a fresh install on the SSD if that is the only option that I have available. Unfortunately when I use the USB stick that came with the Windows 10 installation package, I'll boot from the USB but it doesn't show any drives available during the install unless I have the 250GB PCIe card in there. If there is a way to make the SSD show up for the installation process then I'd be happy to go that route.
Some detail first.

How much space is consumed on the current drive?
Which OS?
What is the size/make/model of the new SSD?
What motherboard?
 

rrreed

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May 25, 2018
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Some detail first.

How much space is consumed on the current drive?
Which OS?
What is the size/make/model of the new SSD?
What motherboard?
  1. Just over 400GB used on the current drive.
  2. Windows 10 Pro
  3. Crucial BX500 2TB 3D NAND CT2000BX500SSD1
  4. HP Z440 Workstation System Motherboard Intel LGA2011-3 761514-001 710324-002
I'm not really sure what the exact name of the mother board is but I looked up the computer online and found a picture of the motherboard with the description that I posted for answer #4. I hope that works?
 

USAFRet

Titan
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If you return the system back to original config, without the SSD, does it work properly?
If so, then we can try the clone again.

Primary step always missed - At the end of the clone process, power off, disconnect the old HDD, and power up with only the new SSD connected.
This is not optional.
Resist temptation to look around in the new drive to see if everything is there. Unless an error popped up during the clone process, it is. Even if the resulting "size" is a little different.


-----------------------------
Specific steps for a successful clone operation:
-----------------------------
Verify the actual used space on the current drive is significantly below the size of the new SSD
Download and install Macrium Reflect (or Samsung Data Migration, if a Samsung SSD)
If you are cloning from a SATA drive to PCIe/NVMe, install the relevant driver for this new NVMe/PCIe drive.
Power off
Disconnect ALL drives except the current C and the new SSD
Power up
Run the Macrium Reflect (or Samsung Data Migration)
Select ALL the partitions on the existing C drive

If you are going from a smaller drive to a larger, by default, the target partition size will be the same as the Source. You probably don't want that
You can manipulate the size of the partitions on the target (larger)drive
Click on "Cloned Partition Properties", and you can specifiy the resulting partition size, to even include the whole thing

Click the 'Clone' button
Wait until it is done
When it finishes, power off
Disconnect ALL drives except for the new SSD
This is to allow the system to try to boot from ONLY the SSD
Swap the SATA cables around so that the new drive is connected to the same SATA port as the old drive
Power up, and verify the BIOS boot order
If good, continue the power up

It should boot from the new drive, just like the old drive.
Maybe reboot a time or two, just to make sure.

If it works, and it should, all is good.

Later, reconnect the old drive and wipe all partitions on it.
This will probably require the commandline diskpart function, and the clean command.

Ask questions if anything is unclear.
-----------------------------
 

rrreed

Commendable
May 25, 2018
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1,530
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If you return the system back to original config, without the SSD, does it work properly?
If so, then we can try the clone again.

Primary step always missed - At the end of the clone process, power off, disconnect the old HDD, and power up with only the new SSD connected.
This is not optional.
Resist temptation to look around in the new drive to see if everything is there. Unless an error popped up during the clone process, it is. Even if the resulting "size" is a little different.


-----------------------------
Specific steps for a successful clone operation:
-----------------------------
Verify the actual used space on the current drive is significantly below the size of the new SSD
Download and install Macrium Reflect (or Samsung Data Migration, if a Samsung SSD)
If you are cloning from a SATA drive to PCIe/NVMe, install the relevant driver for this new NVMe/PCIe drive.
Power off
Disconnect ALL drives except the current C and the new SSD
Power up
Run the Macrium Reflect (or Samsung Data Migration)
Select ALL the partitions on the existing C drive

If you are going from a smaller drive to a larger, by default, the target partition size will be the same as the Source. You probably don't want that
You can manipulate the size of the partitions on the target (larger)drive
Click on "Cloned Partition Properties", and you can specifiy the resulting partition size, to even include the whole thing

Click the 'Clone' button
Wait until it is done
When it finishes, power off
Disconnect ALL drives except for the new SSD
This is to allow the system to try to boot from ONLY the SSD
Swap the SATA cables around so that the new drive is connected to the same SATA port as the old drive
Power up, and verify the BIOS boot order
If good, continue the power up

It should boot from the new drive, just like the old drive.
Maybe reboot a time or two, just to make sure.

If it works, and it should, all is good.

Later, reconnect the old drive and wipe all partitions on it.
This will probably require the commandline diskpart function, and the clean command.

Ask questions if anything is unclear.
-----------------------------
Okay! I'll attempt to run everything by these instructions and get back with you. I can't remember if I turned off the computer directly after the cloning so it's worth a shot. The only odd part about the process is that Macrium Reflect won't clone the C: drive so I'll need to do that with AOMEI but other than that, I should be able to follow through with these steps.
 

rrreed

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May 25, 2018
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No. For some reason it always fails if I include the C: drive in the cloning process with Reflect. I have the free version of AOMEI Backupper which will let you clone everything except for the system so I used that to clone the C: drive partition over. The new SSD still will not boot with this setup though.

Here is an image of the Disk Management window with both drives in their current forms. Disk0 is the original hard drive and Disk1 is the new SSD.

 

USAFRet

Titan
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Mar 16, 2013
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Disk 0 is the source, and Disk 1 is the target?
Macriums whole deal is to be able to migrate the C partition.

What specific error did Macrium give you?

I don't believe you can do this with 2 different tools, and have a successful outcome.

Delete ALL partitions on Disk 1.
In Macrium, select only the middle 3 partitions. Leave off the first (on the left) and last (on the right).


Try it again.
 

rrreed

Commendable
May 25, 2018
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Correct! Disk0 is the source and Disk1 is the target. When running Macrium, the software gives two status updates including: 'Checking File System' and 'Gathering Windows Events'. And then it will fail with the following error - 'Clone Failed -- VerifyFileSystem Failed'. This is only when the C: drive is in play but obviously that's a pretty deal haha. I've attempted to run SFC /SCANNOW and CHKDSK /R on the C: drive but everything seems to be good.

My gut feeling tells me that you're correct and the using both softwares in the cloning process is an issue. I've just been desperately trying to piece it all together in any way that I can. I greatly appreciate your help so far! Here is an actual clipping of the Macrium failed screen:

 

USAFRet

Titan
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Mar 16, 2013
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"VerifyFileSystem Failed" would tend to indicate an issue with the source drive and its data.

And if that is the case, a clone is just moving the problem to a different physical drive.

Cloning is great when conditions are perfect.
Here, it is not.
 

rrreed

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May 25, 2018
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Okay, so we probably won't be going that direction then. May I ask if you know of any reason for why I can't get either the old or the new disk to show up when I run the Windows 10 installation? I can insert the Windows 10 USB and boot to it but when it gets to the part where it's looking for me to select a disk to install on, there are no options to select from. I can insert the memory card that was plugged into the PCIe slot and that shows up but otherwise there is no luck. I'm wondering if I just need to use that card but I've never seen a system that forces that kind of thing.
 

rrreed

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May 25, 2018
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How did you create the Win 10 USB to install with?

What specific drive(s)?
Which specific motherboard and port?
Is only ONE drive connected when you're doing this install?
I didn't create the bootable USB, I went out and bought Windows 10 and it came on the USB device for installation.

I'm not sure if the motherboard/port question was for the creation or the use of the USB but I've been using it with the same motherboard mentioned above and with the USB ports on the front of the PC.

I have only connected a single drive at a time while attempting to perform the installation but none of the drives seem to appear. I've attempted this with both the new drive and I've done it with the old drive, just to see if I could see it.
 

rrreed

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May 25, 2018
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Motherboard = what board is involved?
Same with the drive(s) and how they are connected.
Motherboard: HP Z440 Workstation System Motherboard Intel LGA2011-3 761514-001 710324-002
Drive: Crucial BX500 2TB 3D NAND CT2000BX500SSD1

The drive is just connected through the single original SATA cable running from the motherboard.
 

rrreed

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May 25, 2018
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Run chkdsk on drive C: . There's some issue with the drive. This will require reboot.
chkdsk c: /f

Check drive health using HDtune health. Post screenshot.
I have run chkdsk a couple of times now but it has hasn't seemed to fix anything for this process yet.
 

rrreed

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May 25, 2018
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Can you show screenshot from HDtune health?
I tried downloading this software and doing a health scan but nothing seemed to happen. It keeps counting down from 5 minutes and then not changing anything on screen. I may be attempting to do something else with this project since it doesn't seem to be going well under current circumstances.
 

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