Does boulder-pushing consume food?

James

Distinguished
Dec 31, 2007
1,388
0
19,280
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Hi,

I'm trying to ascend a foodless (amongst other conducts) Monk. My last
attempt had her prayers fall on deaf ears for some reason that I can't
work out. I'm almost 100% sure I didn't do anything to annoy my god or
hurt my alignment, but I was on the first level of sokoban at the time.
Could it be that pushing boulders burned more nutrition points than
usual and I ended up praying too early?

--
James
 

James

Distinguished
Dec 31, 2007
1,388
0
19,280
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Martin Read wrote:
> james@lab6.com wrote:
> >I'm trying to ascend a foodless (amongst other conducts) Monk. My
last
> >attempt had her prayers fall on deaf ears for some reason that I
can't
> >work out. I'm almost 100% sure I didn't do anything to annoy my god
or
> >hurt my alignment, but I was on the first level of sokoban at the
time.
> >Could it be that pushing boulders burned more nutrition points than
> >usual and I ended up praying too early?
>
> Did you do anything to damage any of the boulders in Sokoban? There
is
> a luck penalty for doing so, and if you have negative luck your God
will
> never be nice to you.

No, no boulders broken. I've read the luck spoiler and can't see that I
did any of the unlucky things.

I understand being burdened uses up food. I guess it's possible that I
spent some turns burdened when I shouldn't have, but I can't remember.

--
James
 

James

Distinguished
Dec 31, 2007
1,388
0
19,280
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

james@lab6.com wrote:
> Martin Read wrote:
> > james@lab6.com wrote:
> > >I'm trying to ascend a foodless (amongst other conducts) Monk. My
> last
> > >attempt had her prayers fall on deaf ears for some reason that I
> can't
> > >work out. I'm almost 100% sure I didn't do anything to annoy my
god
> or
> > >hurt my alignment, but I was on the first level of sokoban at the
> time.
> > >Could it be that pushing boulders burned more nutrition points
than
> > >usual and I ended up praying too early?
> >
> > Did you do anything to damage any of the boulders in Sokoban?
There
> is
> > a luck penalty for doing so, and if you have negative luck your God
> will
> > never be nice to you.
>
> No, no boulders broken. I've read the luck spoiler and can't see that
I
> did any of the unlucky things.
>
> I understand being burdened uses up food. I guess it's possible that
I
> spent some turns burdened when I shouldn't have, but I can't
remember.

OK, *exactly* the same thing happened again. Became Weak while pushing
boulders in sokoban level 1, prayed, "Thou art arrogant, mortal."

Again, no exacerbating factors. It has to be the boulders.

--
James
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

james@lab6.com wrote:
> james@lab6.com wrote:
> > Martin Read wrote:
> > > james@lab6.com wrote:
> > > > I'm trying to ascend a foodless (amongst other conducts) Monk.
My
> > > > last attempt had her prayers fall on deaf ears for some reason
> > > > that I can't work out. I'm almost 100% sure I didn't do
anything
> > > > to annoy my god
> > > > or hurt my alignment, but I was on the first level of sokoban
at
> > > > the time.
> > > > Could it be that pushing boulders burned more nutrition points
> > > > than usual and I ended up praying too early?

> > > Did you do anything to damage any of the boulders in Sokoban?
There
> > > is a luck penalty for doing so, and if you have negative luck
your > > > God will never be nice to you.
> >
> > No, no boulders broken. I've read the luck spoiler and can't see
that
> > I did any of the unlucky things.
> >
> > I understand being burdened uses up food. I guess it's possible
that
> > I spent some turns burdened when I shouldn't have, but I can't
> > remember.
>
> OK, *exactly* the same thing happened again. Became Weak while
pushing
> boulders in sokoban level 1, prayed, "Thou art arrogant, mortal."
>
> Again, no exacerbating factors. It has to be the boulders.
>
> --
> James

I've been wondering about the very same thing in Sokoban, but never got
around to posting about it. Food consumption does seem to be
increased. I always thought that pushing boulders is hard work and
consumes more nutrition.

--
..
 

Manuel

Distinguished
May 6, 2004
97
0
18,630
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

james@lab6.com wrote:
> I'm trying to ascend a foodless (amongst other conducts) Monk. My
last
> attempt had her prayers fall on deaf ears for some reason that I
can't
> work out. I'm almost 100% sure I didn't do anything to annoy my god
or
> hurt my alignment, but I was on the first level of sokoban at the
time.
> Could it be that pushing boulders burned more nutrition points than
> usual and I ended up praying too early?


Maybe you shouldn't #pray until you are _almost_ fainting (turning the
counter on might help).
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

james@lab6.com wrote:
>I'm trying to ascend a foodless (amongst other conducts) Monk. My last
>attempt had her prayers fall on deaf ears for some reason that I can't
>work out. I'm almost 100% sure I didn't do anything to annoy my god or
>hurt my alignment, but I was on the first level of sokoban at the time.
>Could it be that pushing boulders burned more nutrition points than
>usual and I ended up praying too early?

Did you do anything to damage any of the boulders in Sokoban? There is
a luck penalty for doing so, and if you have negative luck your God will
never be nice to you.
--
Martin Read - my opinions are my own. share them if you wish.
My roguelike games page (including my BSD-licenced roguelike) can be found at:
http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~mpread/roguelikes.html
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

james@lab6.com writes:
> Could it be that pushing boulders burned more nutrition points than
> usual and I ended up praying too early?

Pushing boulders in itself doesn't use any more nutrition than you'd
expect for the time elapsed. The activities that increase hunger (as
opposed to the conditions, which are listed in food-343.txt):

jumping (d25)
vomiting (usually 20; 1000 if after stuffing yourself, d20+10 from a
fountain's foul water, d(30-CON)+10 from a sink's water tasting
like sewage)
fountain water being "no good" (d20+10)
Famine's attack (d40+39)
laying an egg (80)
spellcasting (depends on spell level)
teleporting with ^T (100)

--
: Dylan O'Donnell http://www.spod-central.org/~psmith/ :
: "Nothing matters very much, and few things matter at all." :
: -- A.J. Balfour :
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Manuel wrote:
> james@lab6.com wrote:
>
>>I'm trying to ascend a foodless (amongst other conducts) Monk. My
>
> last
>
>>attempt had her prayers fall on deaf ears for some reason that I
>
> can't
>
>>work out. I'm almost 100% sure I didn't do anything to annoy my god
>
> or
>
>>hurt my alignment, but I was on the first level of sokoban at the
>
> time.
>
>>Could it be that pushing boulders burned more nutrition points than
>>usual and I ended up praying too early?
>
>
>
> Maybe you shouldn't #pray until you are _almost_ fainting (turning the
> counter on might help).
>

Even with this, there is a slight chance that your prayer timeout will
be too long. Even if you only pray for food, you're not guaranteed to
never anger your god, unless you have a ring of slow digestion. IIRC the
max prayer timeout goes to 3500 or so, but the probability is very low.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm almost certain about this.
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack,misc.misc (More info?)

Andy Johnson wrote:

> Even with this,

[waiting until fainting]

> there is a slight chance that your prayer timeout
> will be too long. Even if you only pray for food,
> you're not guaranteed to never anger your god,
> unless you have a ring of slow digestion. IIRC the
> max prayer timeout goes to 3500 or so, but the
> probability is very low.

> Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm almost
> certain about this.

Well, you are at least headed in the correct
direction, but even a ring of slow digestion can be
insufficient by a factor of around two.

In the right circumstances, and if you are
incredibly unlucky, a single prayer timeout can be
longer than a usual game of NetHack.

See my:

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/ba910f270c7b5c49?dmode=source

As modified, corrected, and extended by Andrew D.
Hilton, here:

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/3d674a6092e0f0d3?dmode=source

Sorry to be the bearer of bad tidings...

xanthian.
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On Sat, 19 Mar 2005, Kent Paul Dolan wrote:

> Andy Johnson wrote:
>
> > Even with this,
>
> [waiting until fainting]
>
> > there is a slight chance that your prayer timeout
> > will be too long. Even if you only pray for food,
> > you're not guaranteed to never anger your god,
> > unless you have a ring of slow digestion. IIRC the
> > max prayer timeout goes to 3500 or so, but the
> > probability is very low.
>
> > Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm almost
> > certain about this.
>
> Well, you are at least headed in the correct
> direction, but even a ring of slow digestion can be
> insufficient by a factor of around two.
>
> In the right circumstances, and if you are
> incredibly unlucky, a single prayer timeout can be
> longer than a usual game of NetHack.
>
> See my:
>
> http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/ba910f270c7b5c49?dmode=source

> Sorry to be the bearer of bad tidings...

Looks like a prayer timeout of 7000 can still be dealt with food prayers
and ring of slow digestion (or xorn+amulet of unchanging). Because in this
case you will only consume 1 food per 20 turns, so a timeout of 7000 will
makes around 350 nutrition, far less than what you get when praying (900).

Actually, 900 food per praying, and a praying timeout of 7000 allow you to
consume, on average, 2,5 nutrition every 20 turns. Enough for either two
rings or a ring and an amulet. Not enough for two rings and an amulet. And
you'll have to remove one of those when carrying the Amulet.
And of course, you cannot usr conflict or regenration.

See http://www.statslab.cam.ac.uk/~eva/nethack/iaq.html#survive for the
details about praying for food ad vitam aeternam.

Hypocoristiquement,
Jym.
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

psmithnews@spod-central.org (Dylan O'Donnell) wrote:

> Pushing boulders in itself doesn't use any more nutrition than you'd
> expect for the time elapsed. The activities that increase hunger (as
> opposed to the conditions, which are listed in food-343.txt):

> Famine's attack (d40+39)

That little? Sheesh. So basically, if you gorge yourself on K-rations in
Astral's foyer, Famine's special attack is almost completely
ineffective, and he merely hits hard - which, to someone with Planes-
quality armour, is no problem, either. No wonder he's such a wuss.

Richard