[SOLVED] Does PBO degrade the CPU?

[andy0x2a]

Hi,

I have not been able to conclusivley find anything online, so I thought I would ask the experts here.
I want to enable PBO, but I don't want to degrade my CPU. I have read that PBO voids the AMD warranty; is that because it pushes the CPU to unsafe levels?

I have a 3800X with an MSI x57-a-pro motherboard, and EVGA 850W PSU. Cooling it is an h100 Pro XT.

I have tried setting PBO to motherboard settings, with a +300 Mhz, and have noticed that hwinfo shows a few of the cores going up to 4675. Which is nice. Idles at 28-32 (ambient +7), dev tasks are low 50s, compiling brings it up to low 60s.

So my question is: will PBO degrade the CPU, and does scalar value matter for CPU degredation? Is there an optimal/safe value for the scalar?

Thanks

 

[drea.drechsler]

Hi,

I have not been able to conclusivley find anything online, so I thought I would ask the experts here.
I want to enable PBO, but I don't want to degrade my CPU. I have read that PBO voids the AMD warranty; is that because it pushes the CPU to unsafe levels?

I have a 3800X with an MSI x57-a-pro motherboard, and EVGA 850W PSU. Cooling it is an h100 Pro XT.

I have tried setting PBO to motherboard settings, with a +300 Mhz, and have noticed that hwinfo shows a few of the cores going up to 4675. Which is nice. Idles at 28-32 (ambient +7), dev tasks are low 50s, compiling brings it up to low 60s.

So my question is: will PBO degrade the CPU, and does scalar value matter for CPU degredation? Is there an optimal/safe value for the scalar?

Thanks

Keep in mind that any electronics degrades whenever you're using it, it just degrades a lot faster with higher temperature and current.

So long as it's able to reduce clocks and voltage as the cores heat up with a heavy processing load the boost algorithm is going to follow the FIT table values fused in at the factory to keep the processor 'safe'. The way to assure it can do that is to leave voltage and processor multiplier in AUTO, or maybe a very slight negative offset for voltage. Doing PBO right means never putting either of them to fixed values.

I've never seen anything definitive that PBO voids warranty, only that 'overclocking' does. Using that '+300Mhz' setting is a kind of auto-overclocking that may fit the rule, but just enabling PBO and increasing the PPT, EDC and TDC settings shouldn't. The processor is only going to draw the current and power that it's designed to draw for the FIT values the boost algorithm selects. Artificially limiting power and current (and gimping performance) is done to protect a weak VRM against a processor drawing too much and damaging the motherboard.

4675 sound really high even for a 3800x. Have you benched actual performance? With Cinebench 20, both multi-thread and single-thread benches?

 

[andy0x2a]

Hi

Thank you for replying. I am indeed seeing 4675 with 1x scalar in HWinfo. My cinebench results with 10x scalar is 5069pts multi / 519 single. I have absolutely no idea how that compares to other 3800x cpus.

Do you have a recommendation for scalar value?

 

[prophet51]

Scalar above 1x will degrade your cpu faster. PBO is fine though.

 

[CountMike]

PBO is one of main selling points AMD has for Ryzen, don't see how could that void warranty or even have any effect on CPU's longevity.

 

[sizzling]

PBO does not void the warranty. There was another thread recently and it had a table from AMD showing what was covered and using PBO is covered by warranty. Overclocking is not.

 

[zx128k]

See footnotes 3 and 4, at the bottom of the web page.

• Precision Boost Overdrive requires an AMD Ryzen Threadripper, AMD Ryzen 5 3000, AMD Ryzen 7 3000, or AMD Ryzen 9 3000 Series processor and a motherboard compatible with one or more of these processors. Because Precision Boost Overdrive enables operation of the processor outside of specifications and in excess of factory settings, use of the feature invalidates the AMD product warranty and may also void warranties offered by the system manufacturer or retailer.
• AMD’s product warranty does not cover damages caused by overclocking, even when overclocking is enabled via AMD hardware and/or software.

source

 

[drea.drechsler]

Scalar above 1x will degrade your cpu faster. PBO is fine though.

do you have any reference for that?

I've never seen a definitive explanation of precisely what Scalar does. Nor any explanation that substantiates a claim it can increase degradation and why.

 

[drea.drechsler]

See footnotes 3 and 4, at the bottom of the web page.

• Precision Boost Overdrive requires an AMD Ryzen Threadripper, AMD Ryzen 5 3000, AMD Ryzen 7 3000, or AMD Ryzen 9 3000 Series processor and a motherboard compatible with one or more of these processors. Because Precision Boost Overdrive enables operation of the processor outside of specifications and in excess of factory settings, use of the feature invalidates the AMD product warranty and may also void warranties offered by the system manufacturer or retailer.
• AMD’s product warranty does not cover damages caused by overclocking, even when overclocking is enabled via AMD hardware and/or software.

source

That's curious, and like any 'legal-ese' understanding it depends very much on language used. Yes, this is pedantic. That's what lawyers do though, take statements like that apart.

So, second statement concerning overclocking seems the more obvious, if somewhat limited by the necessary condition that damage bringing on the warranty claim was CAUSED by it. I mean, how do they PROVE that you even overclocked in order to show cause? That's another matter though.

But why is the language chosen so different concerning PBO in the first statement? Barracks lawyering as they say but... first flag is the statement of voiding warranty of SYSTEM MANUFACTURER or RETAILER. Why make that distinction for them...while using a much looser term of "invalidate" for themselves? System retailers and Retailers may offer different warranty terms, making a boxed processor worth it's price, but they also may couple a high-end processor with a low-end motherboard leaving them with concern about the motherboard health.

To me, using the term 'invalidate' means they're not providing warranty backing that there are any performance benefits when using PBO. In fact, it may actually kill performance or stability if done wrong, which is something we frequently see. So if you call up complaining about that, don't expect a warranty claim to be honored until you demonstrate a problem with the processor in full stock configuration.

If they wanted to put PBO under the same language as overclocking they could have by simply saying 'PBO is a form of overclocking' within the second statement and be done with it. Why didn't they do that? And why make the distinction for retailers and system mfr's?

 

[zx128k]

That's curious, and like any 'legal-ese' understanding it depends very much on language used. Yes, this is pedantic. That's what lawyers do though, take statements like that apart.

So, second statement concerning overclocking seems the more obvious, if somewhat limited by the necessary condition that damage bringing on the warranty claim was CAUSED by it. I mean, how do they PROVE that you even overclocked in order to show cause? That's another matter though.

But why is the language chosen so different concerning PBO in the first statement? Barracks lawyering as they say but... first flag is the statement of voiding warranty of SYSTEM MANUFACTURER or RETAILER. Why make that distinction for them...while using a much looser term of "invalidate" for themselves? One reason: System retailers and Retailers may offer different warranty terms, making a boxed processor worth it's price.

To me, using the term 'invalidate' means they're not providing warranty backing that there are any performance benefits when using PBO. In fact, it may actually kill performance if done wrong, which is something we frequently see. So if you call up complaining about that, don't expect a warranty claim to be honored.

If they wanted to put PBO under the same language as overclocking they could have by simply saying 'PBO is a form of overclocking' within the second statement and be done with it. Why didn't they do that? And why make the distinction for retailers and system mfr's?

The warranty information is the same. PBO is a form of overclocking.

AMD Processor in a box (PIB) 3 Year Limited Warranty
https://www.amd.com/en/support/kb/warranty-information/rma-03

This limited warranty does not cover damages due to external causes, including improper use, problems with electrical power, accident, neglect, alteration, repair, improper installation, or improper testing.

This Limited Warranty shall be null and void if the AMD microprocessor which is the subject of this Limited Warranty is used with any heatsink/fan (HSF) that does not support operation of the AMD processor in conformance with AMD’s publicly available specifications. Use of HSF solutions determined by AMD as incapable of such performance or which are determined to have contributed to the failure of the processor shall invalidate the warranty.

THESE WARRANTIES REPLACE ALL OTHER WARRANTIES, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.

Warranty Service: Retail CPUs Purchased New in Box
https://www.amd.com/en/support/kb/warranty-information/pib

 

[zx128k]

do you have any reference for that?

I've never seen a definitive explanation of precisely what Scalar does. Nor any explanation that substantiates a claim it can increase degradation and why.

If you choose PBO Scalar 10x, you amplify/disable any limiter the CPU might have.

This brings some secondary effects, such as more generated heat, both in the CPU and the VRM (due to current and higher voltage) and more temperature on the CPU.

Review: GIGABYTE B450 AORUS Pro Wifi

(Última actualización: December 13, 2018) 4). Precision Boost Overdrive PBO Precision Boost Overdrive is somewhat hard to explain, but we will try to explain it the best we can. It is based upon Precision Boost 2/XFR2, thanks to the changes that were brought from the improved 12nm LP fabrication...

www.xanxogaming.com

https://forums.tomshardware.com/threads/pbo-5-3600.3531496/post-21341368

As I've understood it... PBO Scalar relates to how long the VCore should be held elevated when the CPU is boosting; higher scalar values result in a longer hold-up.

If this is correct, I can see that it should be used judiciously. What I think happens is that while it can help the core hold a boost clock longer, it also generates more heat. The result being, as time goes on it should be less likely to boost to as high as the CPU warms more since the boosting algorithm sees less thermal headroom. Of course that's going to happen anyway but it could hasten the time until it starts reducing it's boosts.

But also, if your motherboard's CPU core voltage tends to have a lot of v-droop (poor LLC) then this could help because if voltage isn't high enough it also won't boost as high as needed to sustain the boost. In that case it would lower the boost frequency to maintain stability as the voltage sags some from the initial boost.

This is all conjecture of course. Nobody has solid concrete information on all this as AMD keeps this stuff very close... even theStilt hasn't talked about it that much. And also, so far anything PBO has very limited effect with Ryzen 3000 compared to the effect on Ryzen 2000. So it may actually have no effect.

Also, the CPU boost clock over-ride isn't reliable. On my board it actually makes my CPU boost less when I use it, if I set it to a high value (200Mhz) it will crash when I start any load. So be sure to test with and without to see what it does.

 

[drea.drechsler]

Review: GIGABYTE B450 AORUS Pro Wifi

(Última actualización: December 13, 2018) 4). Precision Boost Overdrive PBO Precision Boost Overdrive is somewhat hard to explain, but we will try to explain it the best we can. It is based upon Precision Boost 2/XFR2, thanks to the changes that were brought from the improved 12nm LP fabrication...

www.xanxogaming.com

....

I'd not seen that article before, but it still leaves it nebulous exactly what Scalar settings actually does.

A couple points being made:

"In high end motherboards, XFR2 is activated by default (I believe this depends on motherboard vendor) while in mobos with a weak VRM, this might be disabled or limited when using a power hungry CPU, such as the Ryzen 7 2700X."

What about those of use NOT using a 'high-end' motherboard, where all that is disabled even though it has capable enough VRM's?

And:
"Within PBO, there is a second variable called Precision Boost Overdrive Scalar (PBO Scalar) and it has a range that starts with 1x up to 10x.
...
This brings some secondary effects, such as more generated heat, both in the CPU and the VRM (due to current and higher voltage) and more temperature on the CPU.
...
The voltage that one can see on a Ryzen 7 2700X en single core such as web browsing, is around 1.44-1.5v. In games, it is around 1.39-1.43v and in heavy productivity workloads is around 1.35-1.38v"

((compared to what? scalar 1? what would it do with scalar disabled? also left unsaid is how it relates to Ryzen 3000, article is too old to do so of course))

"Using PBO Scalar 10x reduces the silicon life of the chip (that is no surprise) but it is impossible to measure how much. I have tested PBO for months and is one of the most appealing features Pinnacle Ridge offers."

I'd agree that using your system harder can reduce silicon life; that's beyond dispute since just using it at all also reduces silicon life. The point he makes, though, is it's impossible to predict how much. Also, previously, that better cooling is important. Ultimately, he very closely comes to the point of recommending using it by the positive tone of the presentation and closure.

And, referencing the post I'd previously made: that was re-told conjecture from someone else and I'm still not sure what it does. shrugs

 

[drea.drechsler]

The warranty information is the same. PBO is a form of overclocking.
....

Says you.

...
AMD Processor in a box (PIB) 3 Year Limited Warranty
https://www.amd.com/en/support/kb/warranty-information/rma-03
....

Nowhere in that warranty document do I see PBO even mentioned. Nor overclocking, for that matter, only on the previously linked web site.

Only relevant statement is 'improper use', which is as nebulous as it gets.

 

[zx128k]

I'd not seen that article before, but it still leaves it nebulous exactly what Scalar settings actually does.

A couple points being made:

"In high end motherboards, XFR2 is activated by default (I believe this depends on motherboard vendor) while in mobos with a weak VRM, this might be disabled or limited when using a power hungry CPU, such as the Ryzen 7 2700X."

What about those of use NOT using a 'high-end' motherboard, where all that is disabled even though it has capable enough VRM's?

And:
"Within PBO, there is a second variable called Precision Boost Overdrive Scalar (PBO Scalar) and it has a range that starts with 1x up to 10x.
...
This brings some secondary effects, such as more generated heat, both in the CPU and the VRM (due to current and higher voltage) and more temperature on the CPU.
...
The voltage that one can see on a Ryzen 7 2700X en single core such as web browsing, is around 1.44-1.5v. In games, it is around 1.39-1.43v and in heavy productivity workloads is around 1.35-1.38v"

((compared to what? scalar 1? what would it do with scalar disabled? also left unsaid is how it relates to Ryzen 3000, article is too old to do so of course))

"Using PBO Scalar 10x reduces the silicon life of the chip (that is no surprise) but it is impossible to measure how much. I have tested PBO for months and is one of the most appealing features Pinnacle Ridge offers."

I'd agree that using your system harder can reduce silicon life; that's beyond dispute since just using it at all also reduces silicon life. The point he makes, though, is it's impossible to predict how much. Also, previously, that better cooling is important. Ultimately, he very closely comes to the point of recommending using it by the positive tone of the presentation and closure.

And, referencing the post I'd previously made: that was re-told conjecture from someone else and I'm still not sure what it does. shrugs

AMD knows how much scalar would reduce lifespan, so would the manufacture of the chips. TSMC AMD ideally should not allow scalar to degrade chips too quickly because those chips could becomes a flood of RMA requests.

 

[drea.drechsler]

AMD knows how much scalar would reduce lifespan, so would the manufacture of the chips. TSMC AMD ideally should not allow scalar to degrade chips too quickly because those chips could becomes a flood of RMA requests.

Robert Halleck lies to us then?

Say it ain't so, Joe!

 

[zx128k]

Says you.

Nowhere in that warranty document do I see PBO even mentioned.

AMD’s product warranty does not cover damages caused by overclocking, even when overclocking is enabled via AMD hardware and/or software.

PBO voids your CPU warranty, but dumping LN2 onto it and leaving it stock technically does not void the warranty.

From an AMD video, "Learn how updates to Precision Boost Overdrive on select AMD Ryzen 3000 Series processors provides an all-new automatic overclocking feature that can give you higher performance. "

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prAaADB9Kck

 

[zx128k]

Robert Halleck lies to us then?

Say it ain't so, Joe!

They are using that information for the normal boosting feature.

 

[drea.drechsler]

AMD’s product warranty does not cover damages caused by overclocking, even when overclocking is enabled via AMD hardware and/or software.

PBO voids your CPU warranty, but dumping LN2 onto it and leaving it stock technically does not void the warranty.
...

Does not say that in AMD literature and just because you're interpreting it that way, doesn't make it so.

As I previously pointed out, AMD PURPOSELY does NOT use the term 'void' with respect to THEIR warranty and PBO.

EDIT add: And yes, I do agree the 'automatic overclocking' feature may be considered overclocking, I said as much above. But you can enable and tweak PBO and even SCALAR without turning on the automatic overclocking. In my case it doesn't work anyway, probably from something MSI did to break it in their BIOS LOL.

 

[drea.drechsler]

Hi

Thank you for replying. Yes, I did misread the hwinfo. I am seeing max frequency of 4600Mhz. My cinebench results with 10x scalar is 5069pts multi / 519 single. I have absolutely no idea how that compares to other 3800x cpus.

Do you have a recommendation for scalar value?

My 3700X, which I've enable PBO and tweaked the settings a little, scores 5135-5155 MT and 511 consistently ST. The 519 score for your CPU shows it's holding a higher clock when lightly loaded. That would be expected of a 3800X but I can't say if it's right for one hitting as high as 4600 on single core boosts.

My higher MT scores suggests mine's not pulling back clock and voltage as much as it holds the load through time, so probably staying a bit cooler. I make 3 runs of CB20 in MT; 5155 is what it will score on the first run of CB20 while 5135 is what it will score on third run.

 

[zx128k]

Does not say that in AMD literature and just because you're interpreting it that way, doesn't make it so.

As I previously pointed out, AMD PURPOSELY does NOT use the term 'void' with respect to THEIR warranty and PBO.

EDIT add: And yes, I do agree the 'automatic overclocking' feature may be considered overclocking, I said as much above. But you can enable and tweak PBO and even SCALAR without turning on the automatic overclocking. In my case it doesn't work anyway, probably from something MSI did to break it in their BIOS LOL.

From AMD's website, "AMD’s product warranty does not cover damages caused by overclocking, even when overclocking is enabled via AMD hardware and/or software."

From an AMD video, "Learn how updates to Precision Boost Overdrive on select AMD Ryzen 3000 Series processors provides an all-new automatic overclocking feature that can give you higher performance. "

View: https://youtu.be/prAaADB9Kck


From AMD's website, "
One Click Overclocking

Making Precision Boost 2 even better
Precision Boost Overdrive (3) uses your motherboard’s robust design to boost clock speeds higher and longer, and lets you overclock (4) at the touch of a button." https://www.amd.com/en/ryzen

(3) Precision Boost Overdrive requires an AMD Ryzen Threadripper, AMD Ryzen 5 3000, AMD Ryzen 7 3000, or AMD Ryzen 9 3000 Series processor and a motherboard compatible with one or more of these processors. Because Precision Boost Overdrive enables operation of the processor outside of specifications and in excess of factory settings, use of the feature invalidates the AMD product warranty and may also void warranties offered by the system manufacturer or retailer. GD-135

(4) AMD’s product warranty does not cover damages caused by overclocking, even when overclocking is enabled via AMD hardware and/or software. GD-26.

AMD consider PBO itself an auto overclocking feature, as stated by AMD above in there video. PBO boosts multi core performance. It is made up of AMD hardware and software. Auto-OC is different from PBO but still appears in the PBO settings. Both features are overclocking the cpu, thus reasons for voiding your warranty.

https://consumer.findlaw.com/consumer-transactions/what-will-void-a-warranty-.html
What Will Void a Warranty?

Therefore, reasons for voiding a limited warranty usually vary with the manufacturer or individual product. If you break a limited warranty its a reason for voiding a limited warranty. Understanding the conditions and limitations of a warranty will usually inform you of when the warranty can and cannot be invalidated.

If you overclock using PBO, its a reason for voiding your limited warranty. Hence, the term void is used correctly. There is no need for AMD is state void, its a legal outcome of breaking your limited warranty and rendering it invalidated.

Void (law) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

In law, void means of no legal effect. An action, document, or transaction which is void is of no legal effect whatsoever: an absolute nullity—the law treats it as if it had never existed or happened.

invalidate. to take away the legal force or effectiveness of; to annul, as a contract.

https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/invalidate
To invalidate means to cancel something or make it void, as if it never happened. In invalidate you see the word valid which means true or correct. When you invalidate something you are making it less true, less official, or less correct.

 

[drea.drechsler]

From AMD's website, "AMD’s product warranty does not cover damages caused by overclocking, even when overclocking is enabled via AMD hardware and/or software."

From an AMD video, "Learn how updates to Precision Boost Overdrive on select AMD Ryzen 3000 Series processors provides an all-new automatic overclocking feature that can give you higher performance. "

View: https://youtu.be/prAaADB9Kck


From AMD's website, "
One Click Overclocking

Making Precision Boost 2 even better
Precision Boost Overdrive (3) uses your motherboard’s robust design to boost clock speeds higher and longer, and lets you overclock (4) at the touch of a button." https://www.amd.com/en/ryzen

(3) Precision Boost Overdrive requires an AMD Ryzen Threadripper, AMD Ryzen 5 3000, AMD Ryzen 7 3000, or AMD Ryzen 9 3000 Series processor and a motherboard compatible with one or more of these processors. Because Precision Boost Overdrive enables operation of the processor outside of specifications and in excess of factory settings, use of the feature invalidates the AMD product warranty and may also void warranties offered by the system manufacturer or retailer. GD-135

(4) AMD’s product warranty does not cover damages caused by overclocking, even when overclocking is enabled via AMD hardware and/or software. GD-26.

AMD consider PBO itself an auto overclocking feature, as stated by AMD above in there video. PBO boosts multi core performance. It is made up of AMD hardware and software. Auto-OC is different from PBO but still appears in the PBO settings. Both features are overclocking the cpu, thus reasons for voiding your warranty.

https://consumer.findlaw.com/consumer-transactions/what-will-void-a-warranty-.html
What Will Void a Warranty?

If you overclock using PBO, its a reason for voiding your limited warranty. Hence, the term void is used correctly. There is no need for AMD is state void, its a legal outcome of breaking your limited warranty and rendering it invalidated.

Void (law) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

In law, void means of no legal effect. An action, document, or transaction which is void is of no legal effect whatsoever: an absolute nullity—the law treats it as if it had never existed or happened.

invalidate. to take away the legal force or effectiveness of; to annul, as a contract.

https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/invalidate
To invalidate means to cancel something or make it void, as if it never happened. In invalidate you see the word valid which means true or correct. When you invalidate something you are making it less true, less official, or less correct.

OK...to void means the warranty is gone, and gone forever. Breaking off the pins of your processor clearly and unequivocally voids warranty, you'll get it denied if you submit a claim for it and it can't be fixed.

To invalidate means it's not valid for how you're using it but doesn't have to mean it's gone forever. So if it persistently locks up and doesn't work when you're PBO'g it the support tech might say 'reset CMOS and what does it do' ans: 'it works fine'. Case closed: there's no warranty coverage for trying to use it in PBO and since it works fine in stock no VALID claim exists, but WARRANTY IS NOT VOIDED! that is a VERY IMPORTANT DISTINCTION.

If it STILL doesn't work stable, even in full-on stock settings, you MIGHT have a warranty claim! I don't know, and you don't know. It would take a lawyer with case experience in this field, and neither of us are that. So arguing it is pretty much pointless.

Invalidating vs. Voiding have real importance in auto warranties. You can put a mod on the vehicle, like an intake mod for instance. If it lights the check engine light and you take it in to get warranty to repair it they will probably invalidate the engine warranty even if the problem is completely unrelated to the intake mod...UNTIL YOU REVERT IT TO STOCK. If it still has the problem, and your return to stock isn't defective, they'll fix it. It wasn't voided.

But if you put antifreeze in the oil instead of oil and then run it till it seizes...the engine warranty is voided. No more warranty, even if you take the antifreeze out and put engine oil back in. It's voided.

I can't say any of that applies to microprocessors. All I do know is that I've never met or heard of anyone who's ever had a warranty claim denied by AMD for any problem processor unless it had broken/bent pins. If you have SPECIFIC knowledge of any who has, in particular someone who ran PBO, what were the circumstances. Share that, not your equally unqualified opinion.

 

[zx128k]

OK...to void means the warranty is gone, and gone forever. Breaking off the pins of your processor clearly and unequivocally voids warranty, you'll get it denied if you submit a claim for it and it can't be fixed.

To invalidate means it's not valid for how you're using it but doesn't have to mean it's gone forever. So if it persistently locks up and doesn't work when you're PBO'g it the support tech might say 'reset CMOS and what does it do' ans: 'it works fine'. Case closed: there's no warranty coverage for trying to use it in PBO and since it works fine in stock no VALID claim exists, but WARRANTY IS NOT VOIDED! that is a VERY IMPORTANT DISTINCTION.

If it STILL doesn't work stable, even in full-on stock settings, you MIGHT have a warranty claim! I don't know, and you don't know. It would take a lawyer with case experience in this field, and neither of us are that. So arguing it is pretty much pointless.

All I do know is that I've never met or heard of anyone who's ever had a warranty claim denied by AMD for any problem processor unless it had broken/bent pins. If you have SPECIFIC knowledge of any who has, in particular someone who ran PBO, what were the circumstances. Share that, not your equally unqualified opinion.

See here,
When Is a Contract Invalid? Everything You Need to Know

https://www.upcounsel.com/when-is-a-contract-invalid

Wondering when is a contract invalid? Contracts are legal documents formed between two or more parties that legally bind the parties. A contract must include all legally required elements to be enforced under state and federal laws and to not be deemed invalid. When elements are not met or are missing, it may make the contract invalid. This should be avoided.

When Does a Contract Become Void?

A void contract means the contract:

• Cannot be enforced under state or federal laws
• Becomes null from the date of origination

Once a contract is void, neither contract is responsible for the terms of the contract.

When Does a Contract Become Voidable?

A contract becomes voidable when the following instances occur:

• A party was threatened or coerced into signing the agreement
• A party was under the influence
• A party is not mentally competent which can mean mentally ill or the party is a minor
• A breach of contract terms occurs
• There are mistakes on the part of both parties
• There is fraudulent information in the form of missing or falsified information or the intent to carry out the contract
• Misrepresentation or false statement of fact has occurred

http://www.businessdictionary.com/definition/voidable-contract.html

A contract that has legal effect and force when it is made, but is liable to be subsequently annulled or set aside by the courts through the process of rescission.

Circumstances or features that make a contract voidable include (1) non-disclosure of one or more material facts, (2) misrepresentation, (3) mutual mistake, (4) lack of free will of a contracting party, or presence of one contracting party's undue influence over the other, and (5) a material breach of the terms of the contract. A contract that is voidable in only one or few parts may be saved by the process of severance. Not to be confused with void contract.

Read more: http://www.businessdictionary.com/definition/voidable-contract.html
Overclocking and not telling AMD via RMA is a Misrepresentation see voidable.

It's heading to far off to the law side of things, can we drop this. I really hate law stuff and don't want a ban for thread hijacking.

 

[drea.drechsler]

....
It's heading to far off to the law side of things, can we drop this. I really hate law stuff and don't want a ban for thread hijacking.

It's way deep into the legal interpretation side of things, especially since just using a term isn't enough as the context is equally important.

And besides: I've never been convinced that even full-on overclocking can automatically void the warranty for AMD's processors. Not when it's obviously going to be covered under an implied warranty of fitness under Magnusson-Moss. When it's marketed, advertised and clearly marked in literature and packaging that it is 'overclockable' it's very hard to say doing so is misuse or abuse. That may be why I've never come across the case of someone who overclocked having a warranty claim denied.

 

[zx128k]

It's way deep into the legal interpretation side of things, especially since just using a term isn't enough as the context is equally important.

And besides: I've never been convinced that even full-on overclocking can automatically void the warranty for AMD's processors. Not when it's obviously going to be covered under an implied warranty of fitness under Magnusson-Moss. When it's marketed, advertised and clearly marked in literature and packaging that it is 'overclockable' it's very hard to say doing so is misuse or abuse. That may be why I've never come across the case of someone who overclocked having a warranty claim denied.

So long as you don't burn the cpu to the ground with a million volts its going to be hard for AMD to state you killed it with PBO.

 

[drea.drechsler]

So long as you don't burn the cpu to the ground with a million volts its going to be hard for AMD to state you killed it with PBO.

Or run it at extremely high temperatures. PBO done right leaves the processor's boosting algorithm in charge of both voltage and clock speed, so it can lower either/both as processing load rises to keep temperature in safe range.

As you suggested... AMD IS obligated to 'show cause' before voiding warranty. You can do that easily enough with bent/broken pins or being improperly packaged when shipped back on the RMA. But showing misuse due to overclocking? wow...maybe you can but the cost to do so would doubtless be way more than just sending them a refurbished processor for replacement.

But as far as degrading your processor goes...well, just using your processor degrades it and using it harder degrades it faster. If you have enabled PBO in order to use your processor harder then yes, it will degrade faster if for no other reason than you use it harder.

And then there's the question of how much faster. Is it enough to matter when most of us live on 5 year upgrade cycles anyway? I seriously doubt it. But if it should degrade just remove the PBO and use it at full-on stock to return to stability, which is what you'd have been doing anyway.