[SOLVED] Does Ryzen 5950X need a cooler in ASUS ROG Crosshair VIII Dark Hero mobo?

[Jack800]

Hello,

I'm in the middle of a new build and could use some advice on the following (still consider myself a newbie):

Case - Corsair 1000D
PSU - Corsair AX1600i
CPU - Ryzen 5950X
Mobo - ASUS ROG Crosshair VIII Dark Hero
RAM - 4x8Gb, 3600
Video Card - TBD

I'll be using my build as a workhorse workstation at home. Some video editing in the future. Gaming will be minimal at best. 3-6 monitor setup
Cooling - I do not want liquid cooling. I MAY consider AIO, but looking at all air cooling right now. Still trying to learn this "radiator" stuff as well.

So, here is my question - The ASUS ROG Crosshair VIII Darker Hero has passive chipset cooling (https://rog.asus.com/us/motherboards/rog-crosshair/rog-crosshair-viii-dark-hero-model/). Does that mean that I really don't need a cooler on this CPU and get away with all air cooling?

Thank you all in advance for any advice you can offer.

Jack800

 

[punkncat]

Yes, you will need to utilize a cooler on the CPU.

Many of the chipsets that came out this last round for AMD had active cooling fans for the VRM because they ran so hot. Likely just relaying that this model has no active fan and is using heatsinks instead.

 

[larkspur]

The motherboard's cooling only applies to the motherboard and not the CPU. You need to buy a CPU cooler for your 5950x. This is what I would get: https://www.amazon.com/Noctua-NH-D1...ocphy=9028841&hvtargid=pla-379102075411&psc=1

 

[drea.drechsler]

...
Cooling - I do not want liquid cooling. I MAY consider AIO, but looking at all air cooling right now. Still trying to learn this "radiator" stuff as well.
....

If you've a proper case for it I'd go with a quality AIO since I've had nothing but great experiences with them.

But for a good air cooler...this seems to be a good NH-D15 alternative that's cheaper:

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/deepcool-ak620-review

I think it would look sharp in a showpiece build. Just be sure your case as good ventilation so the air cooler isn't working at a serious deficit by using hot GPU exhaust.

 

[Jack800]

Wow, thanks all to your quick responses! Well, that was a quick end to that debate whether I need one or not.

Now, I would consider an AIO, but would not understand how to config.
Case front - air intake (fans right?)
Case top - air exhaust (this is where I would place the AIO, correct?
Case rear - air exhaust (fans right?)

Is that how it's done?

 

[drea.drechsler]

...
Case front - air intake (fans right?)
Case top - air exhaust (this is where I would place the AIO, correct?
Case rear - air exhaust (fans right?)

Is that how it's done?

I'd absolutely put the AIO in front, if it will fit. Putting it in top means the hot GPU air will exhaust through the AIO with the same effect on CPU cooling of raising ambient temperature 20 degrees or so. The CPU doesn't put out nearly as much heat as the GPU when gaming so it's effect on GPU heat rise and performance is small to nil.

Top and rear should be exhaust, with front intake through the radiator. Some cases have an option for bottom or side mount and they should be intakes too. You could mount the radiator on the side (if it fits) but never on the bottom even if it can. You always want to mount the radiator so at least one of the tanks is completely above the CPU water block.

 

[larkspur]

If you get an AIO then I would put the rad in the front of the case with the fans blowing into the case (intake). This will get your rad fresh cool air running through it. If you put it in the top with the fans blowing out (exhaust) then the air flowing through the rad is warmer from being inside the case (having cooled the motherboard and GPU).

But for a good air cooler...this seems to be a good NH-D15 alternative that's cheaper:

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/deepcool-ak620-review

I think it would look sharp in a showpiece build. Just be sure your case as good ventilation so the air cooler isn't working at a serious deficit by using hot GPU exhaust.

Personally, the extra $30 for the Noctua is well-worth it for the overall quality. 140mm fans vs 120mm fans and they are Noctua fans. I've been using Noctua fans since 2009 and never ever had a single one die. Still using 3 of them from 2009 in my 2nd system and they are still whisper-quiet and fully functional - and these systems run 24/7...

 

[drea.drechsler]

...
Personally, the extra $30 for the Noctua is well-worth it for the overall quality.
...

Yeah....they're pretty good but don't fit in with my idea of 'value for money'. I've had great luck with name brand fans for a long time so not really worried about that. That includes Scythe, Deep Cool's, beQuiet, Corsair and even Cooler Master's. They may not all be 'as quiet as'...but more than quiet enough since I don't happen to have a sensitive db meter to help me discriminate.

My alternative choice to AK-620 for a monster air cooler would be beQuiet Dark Rock 4.

 

[Jack800]

Aha, so that's how it's done. Cool, thanks!
I think I'm getting confused with terminology here: Is an AIO another term for radiator?

 

[larkspur]

AIO - All in One. AIO coolers are closed-loop coolers - the liquid is completely contained in the loop - in other words - there is no reservoir. They are not user-serviceable - you buy the AIO and it is already filled and sealed with liquid. AIOs have a CPU block that mounts on top of the CPU. There are two hoses that run from the CPU block to the radiator. A pump (usually located in the CPU block) pumps the water through one hose into the radiator and then out of the radiator and back into the CPU block through the 2nd hose in a continuous loop. Fans on the radiator blow through the radiator, thus cooling the liquid and effectively removing the heat from the system.

 

[Jack800]

Oh, ok. So a radiator is part of an AIO. Go it.
Since I went "beast" mode with my case (Corsair 1000D), I have plenty of room and options.

I was interested in sticking with a Corsair AIO, but this is going to be a real "newbie" question (my apologies).

This case showcases two columns of 4 fans each in the front (https://www.corsair.com/us/en/Categ...Series-1000D-Super-Tower-Case/p/CC-9011148-WW), but the choices I have for a Corsair AIO does not show that (https://www.corsair.com/us/en/Categ...ngLighting:RGB&text=&pageSize=12#rotatingText).

What am I missing here?

 

[larkspur]

Yeah your case supports pretty much any rad you want to put in. That case is so massive that you can fit 2 x 480mm radiators on the front! However, to my knowledge AIOs top out at 360mm (at least Corsair's do). Unless you want to do a custom cooling loop you can go with a 360mm AIO. Even that is overkill, a decent 240mm AIO would do fine for you. But if you aren't too worried about the price you might as well get a nice 360mm one. Corsair calls these "triple radiator" coolers on their website. That doesn't mean there are 3 radiators, it just means that the radiator is 3x as big as a standard 120mm radiator.

 

[Jack800]

To take a quote from the movie "Mystery, Alaska" (if memory serves me correctly) - "You paid for the whole stick son, you might as well use it."

As I have the room in this behemoth case, I'd really like to maximize it. I'll go with a nice 360mm as you suggested, but that does mean I have to get two fans to fill the extra space left over? I'd really like to get that look/performance of eight fans in the front.

 

[larkspur]

So I believe the fans are sold separately on your case. There are a total of 8 fan mounts on the front of your case. Each of your fan mounts supports a 120mm fan. A 360mm radiator takes up the space of 3 x 120mm fans plus a little extra space on the 'top' and 'bottom' of the radiator. I'm not 100% sure but it looks to me that if you install one of the Corsair H150i (360mm) radiators you will lose one of the bottom fan mounts because the radiator takes up a little extra space on the bottom. To make an even appearance, you would only install 3 case fans on the other 'side' of the front of your case. This would give you 2 banks of 3 fans visible from the front of your case.

The fans can be installed on either side of the radiator - if you want to see your fans (RGB lighting and all) from the front of your case you would install the fans on the "front" of the radiator "pushing" through the radiator and into the case. Does that make sense?

 

[Jack800]

Thanks, larkspur, you've been a tremendous help!
I think it makes sense. Let me digest it and take a look at a few things and I'll get back later today.

 

[Jack800]

So I believe the fans are sold separately on your case. There are a total of 8 fan mounts on the front of your case. Each of your fan mounts supports a 120mm fan. A 360mm radiator takes up the space of 3 x 120mm fans plus a little extra space on the 'top' and 'bottom' of the radiator. I'm not 100% sure but it looks to me that if you install one of the Corsair H150i (360mm) radiators you will lose one of the bottom fan mounts because the radiator takes up a little extra space on the bottom. To make an even appearance, you would only install 3 case fans on the other 'side' of the front of your case. This would give you 2 banks of 3 fans visible from the front of your case.

The fans can be installed on either side of the radiator - if you want to see your fans (RGB lighting and all) from the front of your case you would install the fans on the "front" of the radiator "pushing" through the radiator and into the case. Does that make sense?

Ok, so let's see if I get this right:

1. I want the biggest Corsair AIO for this case and that will be a 360mm one.
2. I want to see the lighting of the fans so I will place them in front of the radiator (pushing air through radiator into case) But the Corsair H150i series already seems to come with fans. So then I don't choose separate fans, right? Those come with three fans. Do I buy an additional 3 fans to make it look even?
3. Should the radiator be mounted on the left side or right side? Top or bottom?
4. iCue H150i Elite Capellix, iCue H150i RGB Pro XT, or Hydro Series H150i Pro RGB - Which would you consider to be the best? Link

I'm thinking these 8 front fan slots were really meant for custom liquid cooling option.

 

[Jack800]

It looks like Corsair iCUE H150i Elite Capellix is the way to go.

 

[Jack800]

Update - Well, after looking at reviews of this AIO it seems there are design issues with mounting it on AM4 motherboards. Ugh, I don't want to take that chance. It looks like air cooling for me for now until Corsair fixes this.
Now, going back down the rabbit hole again to do more research on which Corsair fan models to pick from...

 

[Jack800]

Thanks again everyone for your advice. I am grasshopper in training.
Hope everyone has a Happy and Safe Holiday Season!

 

[larkspur]

1. Seems to make the most sense with that huge case.
2. Yes, and you would buy the same fans that the AIO cooler uses for the 2nd column of fans to have a consistent appearance.
3. Right or left is your preference and can be determined once you get all your gear and start building inside your case. Whichever side allows your cable and hose routing to be cleaner and allows more airflow. But definitely mount it on the top - you need to make sure that the "top" of the radiator (where the two hoses go into the radiator) is above the CPU block (as in higher elevation). This helps prevent air bubbles from settling in the pump.
4. Probably the Elite Capellix, yes. It has the most RGB if that's what you like.

I seriously doubt there are any major design issues with this cooler mounting on AM4. If you can post a link to what you read then I'll check it out, but AM4 is nothing new (pretty old for a socket actually) and Corsair is a solid company that continually designs and redesigns their products. I'm going to guess that whoever was having an issue mounting to AM4 probably was doing something wrong.

 

[Jack800]

Hello larkspur,

Sure, thanks for taking a look at the following link regarding issues with mounting this AIO on AM4 motherboard. Yes, the AM4 is not new, but I believe the Elite Capelllix is pretty new. I really like Corsair as well and have their case, PSU, and RAM as part of my build.

Here is the link to the reviews. Please let me know your thoughts and as always, much appreciative of your advice!

Jack800

 

[larkspur]

Hmmm, well it doesn't look like the best designed mounting solution for AM4, but if you do it carefully and properly you won't need to worry about it for many years. Of course there are a zillion other AIOs out there that you can pick from. I'm pretty sure Tom's has a roundup of them somewhere.

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/best-cpu-coolers,4181-2.html

 

[Jack800]

Hmmm, well it doesn't look like the best designed mounting solution for AM4, but if you do it carefully and properly you won't need to worry about it for many years. Of course there are a zillion other AIOs out there that you can pick from. I'm pretty sure Tom's has a roundup of them somewhere.

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/best-cpu-coolers,4181-2.html

Thanks for checking it out. I'll check out the other AIOs as well. But I'm leaning on playing it safe initially right now with all air cooling with a passive CPU cooler or one with fans (ex. Noctua N H-D15). Later on, perhaps in a year, I'll cut over to an AIO or perhaps even go to liquid cooling altogether.

 

[Karadjgne]

Ryzens are at heart an efficiency engine. The more efficient you can make them, the better the performance. Thays against all previous accepted policy, as shown and known by Intel use where performance was based on brute force.

With Intel, you jack up the clock speed to gain performance, and jack up the voltages to support that. With the much higher wattage output in heat, you'd need better cooling capacity to tame it. An i9 9900k can put out 250w with nothing more than locking the cores at max turbo and even the NH-D15 is topping capacity at @ 250w, so is barely enough to keep heavy workloads under @ 90°C. A 360mm AIO in comparison has @ 350w capacity, so has headroom to dissipate more heat, which lowers temps.

The Ryzens work differently. The more efficient they work, the higher the performance. Keeping voltages down closer to 60ish °C and keeping voltages lower means they 'think faster', so can output more than if they have higher speeds and higher voltages and higher temps.

The use of a giant cooler whether air or liquid isn't to keep temps in check, but to promote efficiency and allow the Ryzen to do the best it can. Ryzens start lowering boost clocks on a per core basis, generally by 50-100Hz, at 60°C. It's not a thermal throttle like the massive drops seen at Tjunction, but a minor dip that allows the rest of the cores to maintain boosts higher at a lower voltage.

This is important to the VRM's chipset so that voltage and current used doesn't heat the VRM's too high, which lowers their efficiency, causing more heat. Rinse and repeat.

On my Ryzen, my cinebench scores are higher at 62°C, 1.18v and 4.28GHz all core, than they are at 84°C, 1.325v and 4.4GHz all core, almost a 300 point difference (5010 vs 4728 ±).

With your case being as big as it is, airflow is an issue. It's easy to just fill a case with fans and think that should work best, it rarely does. What's more important is how the fans are moving the air. If the air moves in, picks up the heat and moves out in a steady stream, that's best. Having a circulatory pattern is worst, heat just gets recycled throughout.

So fan placement is key. As well as fans that work. The 1000D is massive, so you'll need decent fans on the front mounted AIO, but high cfm airflow fans at exhaust. Think of all fans in one location as 1 fan. Air in from the AIO needs to go out the top/back in a smooth flow.

 

[Jack800]

Wow, thanks Karadjgne, that's a bunch of tech heavy stuff that you just dropped on me. I got the last two paragraphs though.

So, I'm back out of my rabbit hole to get some air after doing additional research on Corsair fans and placement.
Can someone check and see if my logic and understanding is correct and share whatever thoughts you have? Here it goes:

Case - Corsair 1000 D with all air cooling (for now)
Front Fans (intake) - 8x120mm (I chose Corsair QL series)
Top Fans (exhaust) - 3x140mm (I chose Corsair QL series)
Rear Fans (exhaust) - 2x120mm (I chose Corsair QL series)
CPU Fan - Noctua NH-D15
(Corsair fan series - QL for RGB, LL for cooling, ML for silence, HD for radiators, SP for budget)

I was told that for the 13 fans I am buying it would most sense to purchase 3 of Corsair's Commander Core XT items.
..."I would just get 3 Commander Core XT's and ditch the lighting node cores as a whole. Since the XT can control both fan speed and RGB. Otherwise you'd need 6 controllers, 3 lighting node cores and 3 commander pros."

Thoughts? Comments? Suggestions?

As always everyone, thanks!

Jack800