Question Does the GTX 1650 support DXR?

May 5, 2020
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Hi,

Can anybody tell me if GTX 1650 yes or no supports DirectX Raytracing (DXR)? Actual performance does not matter, but DirectX support is vital.

This is important, because we would like to order several of these cards for a school.

The information I can read over the web is not conclusive. It seems only the GTX 1660 and 1660 Ti support raytracing in this family of GPU adapters.
I am specifically interested in the GTX 1650.

Thank you.
 

4745454b

Titan
Moderator
I'm a little confused by your question. There is the nvidia ray tracing out now, and you need an rtx card to use that. The 1650 doesn't support it. There is the (upcoming?) DX ray tracing that any dx card should support. At least as far as i know. They are building it into dx12 so if your card supports dx12 it will handle dx ray tracing. How well depends on the game and card.
 
May 5, 2020
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I'm a little confused by your reply. My question is crystal-clear.
I don't even know you mention RTX if not to complexify the question.

The question lies around DXR, namely DirectX Raytracing. It starts here, and ends here. Forget about RTX/Ray tracing cores or whatever. Only DXR. Only. Things are simple. DXR is an API that exposes raytracing functionality in DirectX.

Some Turing cards are reportedly exposing DXR:

https://www.nvidia.com/content/dam/en-zz/Solutions/geforce/news/geforce-rtx-gtx-dxr/geforce-rtx-gtx-dxr-supported-gpus-march-2019.png

Many, MANY people wonder why the GTX 1650 is left out.
Some sites suggest the 1650 might be compatible:

https://blogs.unity3d.com/2020/03/06/high-definition-render-pipeline-real-time-ray-tracing-is-now-in-preview/

Read: "Turing generation: GTX 1650, GTX 1660 Super, GTX 1660 Ti "

Below is a raytracing-powered Minecraft video. It does NOT state that DXR is being used, though.

View: https://youtu.be/PJhQFc6Xzj4?t=21
 

John Chesterfield

Honorable
Mar 22, 2015
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I'm a little confused by your reply. My question is crystal-clear.
I'm a little confused by your attitude. Here you are, asking for assistance, you get it and are confused and feel the need to point out that your question is crystal clear? Why does the answer you've been given confuse you?

I'd suggest doing a bit of Googling and learning if you didn't understand that answer, because it seems pretty clear to me.
 

4745454b

Titan
Moderator
Easy now guys...

I'm confused because again, as I understand it, DXR as your calling it is built into DX. So any card that supports DX12 should support DXR. Unless it's being built into DX13 which isn't something I've heard about. There is a question about whether or not the 1650 will be powerful enough to handle gaming AND DXR, but without any games to test it with that is pure speculation. And frankly without any games to test with anyone's post in this thread is a pure guess.
 
May 5, 2020
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First, raytracing is not exposed by the Vulkan driver on 1650's:

https://developer.nvidia.com/vulkan-driver

Vulkan Ray Tracing

In addition to Vulkan 1.2, these Vulkan beta developer drivers also support the Khronos provisional VK_KHR_ray_tracing extension. The core ray tracing functionality, as indicated by the VkPhysicalDeviceRayTracingFeaturesKHR.rayTracing feature bit, is available on the following GPUs:

Turing with RT Cores: TITAN RTX, and all Turing GeForce RTX and Quadro RTX GPUs
In addition to supporting high-performance ray tracing, Turing GPUs with RT Cores also support Ray Queries as identified by the VkPhysicalDeviceRayTracingFeaturesKHR.rayQuery feature bit.
Turing without RT Cores: GeForce GTX 1660 Ti, GeForce GTX 1660 Super and GeForce GTX 1660


So how can it be exposed by DXR and not Vulkan on 1650's?

I have no 1650 to test my code with, but what would the following give on 1650's ? That's my question:

Code:
void CheckRaytracingSupport()
{
  D3D12_FEATURE_DATA_D3D12_OPTIONS5 options5 = {};
  ThrowIfFailed(m_device->CheckFeatureSupport(D3D12_FEATURE_D3D12_OPTIONS5,                                                 &options5, sizeof(options5)));
  if (options5.RaytracingTier < D3D12_RAYTRACING_TIER_1_0)
    throw std::runtime_error("Raytracing not supported on device");
}
From what I understand, it is likely that this code will throw on 1650's (and not on 1660's).
 
May 5, 2020
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The following post shows DXR raytracing is supported by the 1660 (which is totally advertised and expected):


If you scroll down the inset, you will find :

RaytracingTier : D3D12_RAYTRACING_TIER_1_0 (10)

However I can't get to information relevant for the 1650.
 

4745454b

Titan
Moderator
Vulkan or DX? I have to be honest here as I'm sure you can already tell, I'm not fully up to speed on this. I'm only going from what I've read or heard about.

Does the chip support it? I'm sure it does. Are the drivers going to allow it? That is trickier. From what you've posted and I know, it seems like SLI to me. Nvidia will allow it on some cards, but not on others. And your trying to figure out if it's going to be allowed on the 1650? To my knowledge there aren't any DX RT games out there yet. And if Nvidia doesn't allow it on the 1650 there is probably a performance reason for it. So I'm going with if it's not allowed you wouldn't want it on that card anyway.
 
May 5, 2020
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I would not speculate around the usefulness of DXR wrt performance.

GT 520 cards are crazy (crazy) slow, only having 48 shader cores, and yet, they've been sold massively and are great to experiment with and develop against for developers with a limited budget.

The fact that we "speculate" about the chip supporting it or not and the driver exposing it (or not) is the very reason why I left a message, basically asking if somebody owning such a card could indeed verify this for me.
 
May 5, 2020
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I'm a little confused by your question. There is the nvidia ray tracing out now, and you need an rtx card to use that. The 1650 doesn't support it. There is the (upcoming?) DX ray tracing that any dx card should support. At least as far as i know. They are building it into dx12 so if your card supports dx12 it will handle dx ray tracing. How well depends on the game and card.
It is not "how well". It's binary : either it is exposed, or it is not exposed by the driver. You can't do anything if it isn't exposed. Some cards implement it through dynamic parallelism (eg. implementations on the GTX 1060/1070/1080/1660 all go this way), some others through more dedicated h/w units (eg. RTX 2xxx). There is no "CPU fallback" here. DXR, through dynamic parallelism, already is quite nice to have and is indeed quite fast already, make no mistake.

DirectX does not emulate hardware features with software (except the WARP renderer, that obviously only sits around for reference output). DirectX exposes device-dependent features in a device-independent way.

For some cards, the driver just does not expose the raytracing functionnality. For instance, GTX 980 cards or 1650 cards. You just won't be able to even test it, for a single minute. This is certainly worth knowing before buying.
 
May 15, 2020
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I think i have a surprising answer for your question about DXR support
*sorry for bad english

Short answer: It was, really.

I brought TUF Gaming Laptop FX505DT with Ryzen 5 and NVIDIA GTX 1650 4GB GDDR5 (i dont know what kind of GTX is this but it was the first laptop featuring that GPU as far as i know).

First time using the laptop, i immediately install CONTROL on it, im sure you guys know it is a Ray tracing game. My old laptop (GT 930M 2GB) was able to play the game smoothly in 720p with lowest setting but there is option thats grayed out: Ray tracing on GI and Reflection.

When i opened the game on the new laptop, it was running extremely well. in 1080p Highest setting it was about 60fps, no vsync on (the display has freesync anyway so i think i prefer vsync to be turned off al the time). And i just notice something strange~

The ray tracing options is all available. me like ??? and yea i tried all.

This is the result:

With ray tracing GI enabled (with also enabling full GI ray traced) the game dont seems to has any performance impact. It was running at 58fps or maybe the same as before, seriously im surprised because i literally see soft shadows and some light bounced from walls and other color sparkling on stuff. it really feels really ray traced (i have experience with 3D rendering and stuff with blender cycles so ... yea it really seems very similar and faking it would be pointless anyway)

With ray tracing reflection enabled. the game went to be a disaster. It was running at about 25fps or even lower at some places. But the raytracing was there and working perfectly with no glitch or wahtever

So. i immediately search does GTX 1650 has ray tracing and i ended up knowing it doesnt have any while still using Turing Architecture. Then i decide to configure all stuff in the laptop to the way i like and see my graphic driver is weirdly outdated

it was game ready version 411. which is very weird considering at that time it was 441 after update. I dont know when the driver is dated for real but the driver info says its even older than a month from the release of the GPU itself (i know its very weird and i think i was taking a wrong info)

Oh yea, after updating everything... i played CONTROL again.
the game runs really smooth, kinda 80fps and more.

i checked the settings and all ray tracing options are grayed out again. WHAT??? then i checked nvidia page and knowing that only GTX 1660 and more that supports ray tracing, at that time i said "LIAR!!!" like seriously i was mad because they took away something the GPU is capable of.

Why? Marketing reason? because its too cheap so everyone will buy more expensive ones? i know it sucks at reflection but the GI ray traced works extremely well.

Till this day i keep searching that very outdated driver and hoping i can use it again in other ray traced game to clarify i was right. And if any of you know about that or where to search on Please i beg you reply me with that info. I would really appreciate it

Note: i am currently using reshade to most of my single player games so i can use Marty McFLy Path Traced Global illuminating on those games that doesnt actually support ray tracing. and i use it because it only cost me about 10% of original framerate but increase visual quality so well. idk if that shader actually take advantage of the Turing architecture or the shader is well optimized already. What i know is if the shader is on my old laptop, a 60+ fps game will be just 3-4 fps.
 

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