Question Don't they say onboard audio is so good that soundcards are not relevant anymore?

[jeremy0118]

I did a little comparison between my onboard audio and the Asus Xonar AE 7.1 and yes even in 2021 it's still worth getting a €70 pci soundcard.
I just put my new PC together with one of the newer Asus Prime B560m-a. You would assume that soundcards are no longer relevant over onboard audio but this is simply not true, i'm not at all statisfied with this onboard realtek chip.. Paired with my HyperX Cloud 2 for gaming the sound is noticably more clear / less muffed and cleaner/more bass on my Xonar. Also the software allows for easy tuning, the "Bass bar" does a great job amplifying the bass without sounding weird . You can even amplify the sound/compression to blow your ears off if the default max volume aint enough for you, overall much better tuning options than onboard.

 

[rgd1101]

for most people don't have highend/good speaker, yes.

 

[lvt]

For Youtube and Netflix, the built-in audio is more than enough for most of folks.

If you are really picky about sound quality, even the costliest PCI sound card won't satisfy you. Go for professional, specialized audio equipment.

 

[hotaru.hino]

I would also argue that audio can be such a convoluted mixture of variables that it's hard to actually say if one thing is "better" than the other. Because at the end of the day, what sounds good to you may not sound good to me.

 

[USAFRet]

Audio is one of those very very personal things.

Your bass may be too muddled for me.
Or too overpowering.
Or not enough.
Or whatever.

What sounds good or bad to you may not be the same for me.

I would postulate that for most people and what they listen with, the onboard audio is just fine.

 

[cryoburner]

Another thing to consider is that not all motherboard audio is created equal. The Asus Prime B560m-a only features a Realtek ALC897 audio chip, which is somewhat lower-end compared to something like the Realtek ALC1220 chip found on some boards. Things like the audio capacitors used by the board and the amount of isolation from electromagnetic interference can also make a notable difference to sound quality, particularly for analog outputs. The audio capacitor setup on that board looks rather sparse compared to some others, and overall it seems like they may have went a bit light on the integrated audio hardware to keep the motherboard's cost down.

However, a dedicated card has a lot more room to work with to minimize the effects of electromagnetic interference, and since outputting audio is the main point of a soundcard, there's likely to be more of a focus on making sure the quality of that audio is good, with better quality components and so on. The differences might be subtle compared to some motherboards, but a card like that is probably going to be at least a little better than just about any integrated audio setup, and definitely has a lot more features and audio ports than your current board, should you ever need them. And you should be able to transfer it to a new desktop system in the future assuming it has a spare PCIe slot, and not have to worry about what the audio quality might be like there.

 

[jeremy0118]

Another thing to consider is that not all motherboard audio is created equal. The Asus Prime B560m-a only features a Realtek ALC897 audio chip, which is somewhat lower-end compared to something like the Realtek ALC1220 chip found on some boards. Things like the audio capacitors used by the board and the amount of isolation from electromagnetic interference can also make a notable difference to sound quality, particularly for analog outputs. The audio capacitor setup on that board looks rather sparse compared to some others, and overall it seems like they may have went a bit light on the integrated audio hardware to keep the motherboard's cost down.

However, a dedicated card has a lot more room to work with to minimize the effects of electromagnetic interference, and since outputting audio is the main point of a soundcard, there's likely to be more of a focus on making sure the quality of that audio is good, with better quality components and so on. The differences might be subtle compared to some motherboards, but a card like that is probably going to be at least a little better than just about any integrated audio setup, and definitely has a lot more features and audio ports than your current board, should you ever need them. And you should be able to transfer it to a new desktop system in the future assuming it has a spare PCIe slot, and not have to worry about what the audio quality might be like there.

Thank you for this insight, did not know the chip my motherboard was using.
I i was expecting better audio quality for a 120 euro board from 2021, i guess i was wrong to assume this.
My gigabyte ga-z68x-ud3h-b3 from 5+ years back had fantastic onboard audio compared to this trash. I dont understand how things got worse.

 

[chetmaster12]

For Youtube and Netflix, the built-in audio is more than enough for most of folks.

If you are really picky about sound quality, even the costliest PCI sound card won't satisfy you. Go for professional, specialized audio equipment.

Some of the best professional equipment is a PCI sound card, the Lynx E22 being a good example.

The big problem is that getting this right is an analog design challenge, and given the budget, not an easy one at all. The really talented analog design engineers, who know how to do audio well, don't want to work for companies like Asus. They get snatched up by companies that need and value their talent, where they get to design things that are actually fun and interesting, where their part of the design is a priority rather than an afterthought.

 

[sizzling]

Let me set out I’m no audio expert but I have been on a journey over the last year. Starting with motherboard audio over a year ago I was using the onboard sound of my MSI B450 Tomahawk Max with a few different gaming headsets including Hyperx Cloud II’s via 3.5mm and Sennheiser DSP 600’s. I then decided to buy a set of AKG 712 Pro’s and giving up on ‘gaming’ headsets. I also bought a Sound Blaster X7 which I picked up 1/2 price. Initially I was impressed with the upgrade to the X7 on my gaming headsets and also the 712’s. However as the months went by and I got used to the X7 and 712’s I began to feel something wasn’t quite as good as it should be, the reviews of the 712’s just seemed to imply they should be better. At the same time I was reading more about external DAC’s and headphone Amps which was also fuelling my doubts that I wasn’t getting the best out of the 712’s. About 2 months ago I picked up secondhand a Schiit Asgard 3 with multibit DAC. The difference was night and day, wow the detail and precision were significantly improved for both music and games and it just raised everything to a new level of enjoyment.

At first I thought I might keep the X7 for it’s features and use the line out of the X7 as a source for the Asgard 3 line in and just use the Asgard 3 as an Amp in this configuration. The X7 had a gaming scout mode and also both USB and Bluetooth connectivity in a convenient device. Trouble is now I have heard just how good the Asgard 3 is with its own multibit DAC using the X7 as a DAC is still a noticeable step down in audio quality. I have finally decided the X7 just does not deserve to keep its desk space and I will be selling it.

What’s the point of my ramble. Even me a non expert has easily seen the difference whereby motherboard < X7 < Asgard 3. Let’s not forget that the X7 is supposed to be one of Sound Blasters top end products but compared to what is still fairly entry audiophile level equipment it was noticeably lacking. I have also had an Asus soundcard in another system a couple of years ago and didn’t seem any better than the X7 but as I haven’t had both side by side it’s hard to be certain. I also know from reviews that the multibit DAC in the Asgard 3 is considered its weakness. Reviews state the Amp section can benefit from being connected to even higher grade DAC’s. I haven’t tried that and I don’t intend to either, if I keep going with something better the price of equipment is going to radically increase and compared to what I had a year ago the Asgard 3 and 712’s are a massive upgrade already. I don’t want to go further down what could be a very expensive rabbit hole of audiophile equipment.

 

[Deleted member 217926]

I don’t want to go further down what could be a very expensive rabbit hole of audiophile equipment.

Person who went down the costly rabbit hole of audiophile equipment here.

As cryoburner was saying above it very much depends on what motherboard and what sound cards you're comparing. A low end board is not better than a discreet card. But some higher end boards have very good DACs and headphone amps integrated. And higher end soundcards can be very, very good.

However, you need headphones or speakers that can take advantage of a higher end source.

I also know from reviews that the multibit DAC in the Asgard 3 is considered its weakness. Reviews state the Amp section can benefit from being connected to even higher grade DAC’s. I haven’t tried that and I don’t intend to either, if I keep going with something better the price of equipment is going to radically increase and compared to what I had a year ago the Asgard 3 and 712’s are a massive upgrade already.

I feel like I've about maxed out what the K712 is capable of with what I've got now. I will still probably side grade from the SMSL SP200 to a Topping A90 at some point but it will only be because the SP200 needs a lower gain setting. I don't expect much of a sound quality difference. I went from using the DAC section of an Aune X1S to this SMSL SU-9 a little over a month ago. It was a huge upgrade. The SU-9 is about as good as you need for headphones. I also looked at the D90 and the M400 and even a Denafrips Ares but the SU-9 is half the price of those and 95%+as good. And the 'better' of the higher end DACs is more of a thing with speakers or Summit-Fi headphones.

SMSL SU-9 Balanced DAC Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the brand new SMSL SU-9 Balanced USB DAC. It was kindly sent to me by one of their distributors, Shenzhenaudio. The SU-9 will be released September 30th and will cost US $439.99. The SU-9 has a simpler but in my opinion more elegant look than...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Also when you're ready to upgrade the K712 Pro......get an Ananda.

 

[sizzling]

Also when you're ready to upgrade the K712 Pro......get an Ananda.

It is funny you should say that, I have spotted those as standing out in the the reviews and seemed like a set I would like. I started to consider them and then reminded myself about that rabbit hole

 

[lvt]

The really talented analog design engineers, who know how to do audio well, don't want to work for companies like Asus.

If you ever saw the motherboard in a professional audio equipment, you'd realize that there is no place on a computer motherboard to put all those parts on.

Even a separate sound card isn't big enough, if you make the sound card too large, few people will buy because of computer case compatibility.

 

[Deleted member 217926]

If you ever saw the motherboard in a professional audio equipment, you'd realize that there is no place on a computer motherboard to put all those parts on.

Even a separate sound card isn't big enough, if you make the sound card too large, few people will buy because of computer case compatibility.

No you couldn't put a speaker amp on a sound card. Not one worth having. But a headphone amp and DAC? Yes. easily. Either integrated on a motherboard or as a discreet soundcard. I have an Asus Xonar STX although I don't use it much anymore. It's easily equal to an entry level desktop stack. Size doesn't equal sound quality.

 

[lvt]

Size doesn't equal sound quality.

Sometime it does, that's why a decade back, many motherboard makes like Asus, AOpen tried to put a full size vacuum tube and huge capacitors on their motherboards to create a powerful audio circuit, kind of pure analog audio.

 

[Deleted member 217926]

Sometime it does, that's why a decade back, many motherboard makes like Asus, AOpen tried to put a full size vacuum tube and huge capacitors on their motherboards to create a powerful audio circuit, kind of pure analog audio.

What? Link to one? Tube amps on a motherboard? I don't believe it.

 

[Deleted member 217926]

Ok they did exist. There's a reason it didn't last. Tube amps are generally Class A and hot. Not to mention electrically noisy. That's the last thing you'd want to integrate into a motherboard.

Also tube amp have a different purpose from solid state. One is for absolute neutrality and the other introduces second order distortion which may sound pleasing but is still distortion.