Down to two different Rigs. Please Help choose.

xsistor

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Hi,

Just when I thought I had finally sorted out my build, I see this video - http://www.viddler.com/explore/pcper/videos/16/529.214/
skip to the 6:00min mark... this 3D vision stuff looks really impressive judging by the reaction.

So now I'm not sure if to go with my original build or get a lower capacity PC and get the 3D Vision system. My primary use is gaming and for programming in .NET/C/C++, etc. (but for programming any old system would do).

ORIGINAL SYSTEM
Intel® Core™2 Duo E8400 (3.00GHz) 1333MHz FSB/6MB L2 Cache
Memory (RAM) 4GB CORSAIR XMS2 800MHz - LIFETIME WARRANTY! (2x2GB)
Motherboard ASUS® P5N-D: DDR2, SATAII, 2 x PCI-e x16, 2 PCI, 2 x PCI-e x1
Operating System Genuine Windows Vista™ Home Premium with SP1, 64-bit, CD & Licence (£75)
USB Options 6 x USB 2.0 PORTS (4 REAR + 2 FRONT) AS STANDARD
Memory - 1st Hard Disk 640GB SERIAL ATA 3-Gb/s HARD DRIVE WITH 16MB CACHE (7,200rpm)
1st CD/DVD Drive 22x DUAL LAYER LIGHTSCRIBE DVD WRITER ±R/±RW/RAM
Graphics Card 896MB PALIT GEFORCE GTX275 PCI EXPRESS
Sound Card Sound Blaster® Audigy™ SE
Case ANTEC 900 BLACK GAMING CASE
Power Supply & Case Cooling 700W FSP Quiet Quad Rail PSU + 120mm Case Fan (£58)
Processor Cooling SUPER QUIET 22dBA TRIPLE COPPER HEATPIPE CPU COOLER (£15)

Monitor: 23" Dell. 2048x1152 resolution
http://accessories.euro.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=uk&l=en&cs=ukdhs1&sku=193757
========================
TOTAL COST: £1050 (approx.)
========================

PC with Geforce 3D Vision
AMD PHENOM™ II X3 720 (2.8GHz) BLACK EDITION (Socket AM3)
Memory (RAM) 4GB CORSAIR XMS2 800MHz - LIFETIME WARRANTY! (2x2GB)
Motherboard ASUS® M4N78: DUAL DDR2, S-ATA II, PCIe x16, 2 x PCIe x1, 3 x PCI
Operating System Genuine Windows Vista™ Home Premium with SP1, 64-bit, CD & Licence (£75)
USB Options 6 x USB 2.0 PORTS (4 REAR + 2 FRONT) AS STANDARD
Memory - 1st Hard Disk 500GB SERIAL ATA 3-Gb/s HARD DRIVE WITH 8MB CACHE (7,200rpm)
1st CD/DVD Drive 22x DUAL LAYER LIGHTSCRIBE DVD WRITER ±R/±RW/RAM
Graphics Card 896MB PALIT GEFORCE GTX260 SONIC 216
Sound Card ONBOARD 8 CHANNEL (7.1) HIGH DEF AUDIO (AS STANDARD)
Network Facilities ONBOARD 10/100/1000 GIGABIT LAN PORT
Case STYLISH PIANO BLACK FUSION CASE inc. 2 FRONT USB
Power Supply & Case Cooling 700W FSP Quiet Quad Rail PSU + 120mm Case Fan (£58)
Processor Cooling STANDARD CPU COOLER

Monitor - GeForce 3D Vision Kit & Samsung SyncMaster 2233RZ 120Hz LCD bundle (£398)
http://www.nvidia.com/object/product_GeForce_3D_VisionBundle_us.html
========================
TOTAL COST: £1080 (approx.)
========================



DIFFERENCES
My first setup has a GTX 275 and a E8400, + an SLI board that can support a second GTX 275 in the future. It also serves a larger 60HZ monitor resolution - 2048x1152 or 1920x1200. It also includes better cooling and Antec 900 case so probably more overclock potential.

The second setup has Phenom II 720 BE and the GTX 260 Core 216SP and a standard Fusion Piano Black case, and a board that has no multi-GPU support. But it will be running on a lower resolution (1680x1050 @120Hz) and comes with 3D Vision glasses.


With either rig, I hope to run most games on max settings at the specified resolution. I mostly play games like Company of Heroes, Age of Conan, etc. and planning to get stuff like Left 4 Dead 2, SC2, Diablo 3 when they release.


Not sure if this 3D vision thing is a flight of fancy .... maybe its not worth compromising on a good rig and a solidly high-res monitor. So please help me decide.

thanks :)
 

fullmetall

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Your setup will be better for gaming.

The E8xxx family cpu's are slightly better than the x3 720 and your gfx card will be mostly what the games will want and your gtx 275 will out perform the gtx 260 with no doubt.

Make sure that 640gb is a good one like the wd black 640gb.
 

xthekidx

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The E8400 is not substantially better for gaming than the X3 720. It will depend on the game you play, but if you play newer games, many of them take advantage of 3 cores (far cry 2, Crysis, GTAIV, UT3, FSX to name a few).
 

techwizard08

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Either way you'll have a processor that will handle your games.

@thekid: UT3=Unreal Tournament 3? Because I didn't think that supported multiple threads (not that it matters when most new rigs can blast 100+ fps on it
 

xsistor

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hi,

thanks for the responses guys.

Are you sure?

this is the price with monitors included

Geforce 3D Vision comes to nearly £400, while the Dell SP2309W comes to £230.
So that basically means that the AMD rig itself costs about £680 while the Intel rig costs about £820


I could also try cutting costs on my E8400 and bring it down to the follow specs given below. The advantage here is also that I can hold on to the SLI capability for a future upgrade wit ha second Palit GTX 260 core 216SP

Intel® Core™2 Duo E8400 (3.00GHz) 1333MHz FSB/6MB L2 Cache
Memory (RAM) 4GB CORSAIR XMS2 800MHz - LIFETIME WARRANTY! (2x2GB)
Motherboard ASUS® P5N-D: DDR2, SATAII, 2 x PCI-e x16, 2 PCI, 2 x PCI-e x1
Operating System Genuine Windows Vista™ Home Premium with SP1, 64-bit, CD & Licence (£75)
USB Options 6 x USB 2.0 PORTS (4 REAR + 2 FRONT) AS STANDARD
Memory - 1st Hard Disk 640GB SERIAL ATA 3-Gb/s HARD DRIVE WITH 16MB CACHE (7,200rpm)
1st CD/DVD Drive 22x DUAL LAYER LIGHTSCRIBE DVD WRITER ±R/±RW/RAM
Graphics Card 896MB NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX260 PCI EXPRESS
Sound Card ONBOARD 8 CHANNEL (7.1) HIGH DEF AUDIO (AS STANDARD)
Network Facilities ONBOARD 10/100/1000 GIGABIT LAN PORT
Case STYLISH PIANO BLACK FUSION CASE inc. 2 FRONT USB
Power Supply & Case Cooling 450W Quiet Dual Rail PSU + 120mm Case Fan (£24)
Processor Cooling STANDARD CPU COOLER
GeForce 3D Vision GeForce 3D Vision Kit & Samsung SyncMaster 2233RZ 120Hz LCD bundle (£398)

This whole rig comes to £1111
 

Helloworld_98

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I have no idea how the intel one reached £820, last time I checked, with using quality components which some of those aren't, it would hit £600 to build, then I'd get the best 24" monitor under £200.

that would leave you £300 to upgrade the CPU, mobo, ram and maybe gfx card.

£70 extra for an i7 920 D0 from OCUK
£40 more for a Gigabyte UD3R mobo
£25 more for a 3x2GB 1333mhz set of OCZ ram
£75 more for a 4870 X2 or £105 more for dual 4890's over a single GTX 275.

that saves you £60 or £90 and you get a far better PC.
 

xaira

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how do you make an intel build cheaper and more powerfull than an amd, i didnt think it was possible, u should get some kind of prize, are you jesus?

dude 3dvision looks really kool but its not worth it u can get a 24 inch monitor
a decent amd, sli/crossfire board
and either a 275 or 2 4870s
 

xsistor

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This this is overpriced at £820

Intel® Core™2 Duo E8400 (3.00GHz) 1333MHz FSB/6MB L2 Cache
Memory (RAM) 4GB CORSAIR XMS2 800MHz - LIFETIME WARRANTY! (2x2GB)
Motherboard ASUS® P5N-D: DDR2, SATAII, 2 x PCI-e x16, 2 PCI, 2 x PCI-e x1
Operating System Genuine Windows Vista™ Home Premium with SP1, 64-bit, CD & Licence (£75)
USB Options 6 x USB 2.0 PORTS (4 REAR + 2 FRONT) AS STANDARD
Memory - 1st Hard Disk 640GB SERIAL ATA 3-Gb/s HARD DRIVE WITH 16MB CACHE (7,200rpm)
1st CD/DVD Drive 22x DUAL LAYER LIGHTSCRIBE DVD WRITER ±R/±RW/RAM
Graphics Card 896MB PALIT GEFORCE GTX275 PCI EXPRESS
Sound Card Sound Blaster® Audigy™ SE
Case ANTEC 900 BLACK GAMING CASE
Power Supply & Case Cooling 700W FSP Quiet Quad Rail PSU + 120mm Case Fan (£58)
Processor Cooling SUPER QUIET 22dBA TRIPLE COPPER HEATPIPE CPU COOLER (£15)

 

stumpystumped

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Very interesting that you are going for a nVidia chipset over an Intel one, are you thinking of of going SLI later on? If not Intel P45 chipset is much better at OC and probably slightly cheaper. Also I'd ditch the Core 2 Dual for a Core 2 Quad 6600 or 8200. Is a sound card really needed these days, as most motherboard provide decent enough audio.
 

xsistor

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well i'm using it for gaming mainly - and Core 2 Quad isnt nearly as good for gaming as the E8400. It performs almost as well as an i7 920 in gaming benchmarks. So i figured i'd get it and overclock to atleast 3.6 GHz.

yeah i considered the P45 but I want to have the option of adding a second card later on if I need better performance.

I suppose I could do without the sound card... I added it to that system because if I'm getting a normal monitor I can afford to throw in a sound card which just costs about £20 anyway...
 

xthekidx

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Do you have to use an Nvidia GPU? ATI GPU's work just as well as Nvidia, they can crossfire on the P45 chipset, and are usually cheaper than the direct Nvidia competitor. Nvidia only makes sense if you are going to use one GPU, or if you have the X58 chipset. Nvidia Chipsets are flaky and should be avoided at all costs.
 

Helloworld_98

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@xsistor, if you're paying £220 for them to build it, I would hardly call it a bargain. I'm guessing you're looking at CCL because the prices are so high.

building a PC isn't that hard, there are a few instructional guides on how to do it as well.

try looking at overclockers.co.uk, look through the components for one's you want (on your budget, an i7 920 D0 processor, ASUS or Gigabyte X58 motherboard, and 3x2GB of ram, try the patriot 1600mhz one's as some run at upto 1900mhz). Or on that site, they have a lot of good pre-built deals at the moment which might only cost £50 than to build it yourself, also the prices are a lot cheaper on OCUK compared to CCL.
 

johnnyq1233

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I like your E8400 rig better as that processor rocks! I also have the 3D vision kit which I love! I think the future of gaming is in 3D as you can't get any better with just screen and card updates...it'll still be 2 D...
These glasses are NOT like the old days!
In the end it all depends on how you want to play....if you can check them out at a local store before buying...
 

xsistor

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Hi guys. Thanks for all the responses.

Afraid hte Nvidia and SLI are fixtures. The games I play, especially Company of Heroes, give much better performance on NVidia cards. Also, I'm really leaning towards Geforce 3D Vision, after having scoured the net and read many people's take on it.

I've been reading a lot of reviews for that particular Asus board and it seems its fine. Apparrently there used to be a problem with the 750i chipset where there was some artifacting, buit NVidia corrected it some time ago with a bios update. and for this particular board I haven't really heard many worries.

Okay now down to the rig. I chose WWW.PCSPECIALIST.CO.UK because most of the reviews for their rigs seeem excellent. And because they are easily the cheapest for custom builds I found. I tried checking overclockers.co.uk. Sadly that particular link wouldn't work for some reason. But I did try other similar builds to what I'm getting and the cost comes very close to anything pcspecialist offer.

PCSPECIALIST BUILD
Intel® Core™2 Duo E8400 (3.00GHz) 1333MHz FSB/6MB L2 Cache
4GB CORSAIR XMS2 800MHz - LIFETIME WARRANTY! (2x2GB)
ASUS® P5N-D: DDR2, SATAII, 2 x PCI-e x16, 2 PCI, 2 x PCI-e x1
Genuine Windows Vista™ Home Premium with SP1, 64-bit, CD & Licence (£75)
640GB SERIAL ATA 3-Gb/s HARD DRIVE WITH 16MB CACHE (7,200rpm)
1st CD/DVD Drive 22x DUAL LAYER LIGHTSCRIBE DVD WRITER ±R/±RW/RAM
Graphics Card 896MB NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX275 PCI EXPRESS
Sound Card ONBOARD 8 CHANNEL (7.1) HIGH DEF AUDIO (AS STANDARD)
Case ANTEC 900 BLACK GAMING CASE
Power Supply & Case Cooling 700W Quiet Quad Rail PSU + 120mm Case Fan (£58)
Processor Cooling STANDARD CPU COOLER
1 YEAR ONSITE COLLECT AND RETURN
TOTAL: £753 (including VAT and delivery)


OVERCLOCKERS BUILD
Intel Core 2 Quad Q8400 LGA775 'Yorkfield' 2.66GHz Overclocked to 3.20GHz!
Gigabyte GA-EP45-DS3P Intel P45 (Socket 775) PCI-Express DDR2 Motherboard
Kingston HyperX 4GB (2x2GB) DDR2 8500C5 1066MHz Dual Channel
VISTA 64 HOME PREMIUM
896MB GTX 275
LG GH22NS30 22x DVD±RW SATA Dual Layer ReWriter (Black)
Seagate Barracuda 7200.12 500GB SATA-II 16MB Cache - OEM
Akasa AK-967 Nero Direct Contact Heatpipe CPU Cooler
OCZ ModXStream Pro 700w Silent SLI Ready ATX2 Modular Power Supply
COOLER MASTER ELITE 335
Arctic Silver 5 Thermal Compound professionally hand installed by our technicians
1yr Onsite Collect & Return Warranty

TOTAL COST: £900 (including VAT)


The overclockrs rig is slightly better (read=expensive... may not be necessarily better)) in some ways. Use of a third-party cooler, the Q9400 which is a bit more expensive and the factory overclock, and the 1066MHz RAM.

The pcspecialist rig also has some relatively more expensive components. Antec 900 casing (costs £30-£40 more than the CM 335), a slightly bigger hard disk, and a board with SLI support (which I want!).

Now the costs I have stated earlier may have been bloated because I included the cost of the monitors in the price of the rig. But looking at this, I still have to say I am strongly leaning towards the PCSpecialist build. the cost of £753 for a decent GTX275/E8400/SLI-SUPPORT build means that I can afford to throw in the £400 Geforce 3D Vision bundle.

So is it still possible to beat this £753 price tag by a large amount ordering from some third-party? ... still haven't found a comparable rig on Overclockers. the thing I like most about pcspecialist is that I can fine tune a rig almost exactly to my needs. I can get a cheaper rig easily with a HD 4890/4870, but Radeon is sadly out of the question. In company of heroes particularly, I'll be getting atleast 20-25FPS less with an HD4890 on high res with AA/AF when compared to a GTX 275 or even a GTX 260 c216.


@Johnnyq1233 - Great to see you have the 3D Vision too. How long have you been using it? ... Would you recommend it over going for a high res monitor? ... that 2309W Dell @2048x1152 is a thing of rare beauty, which is what makes this choice so difficult.

Also, how does your GTS 250 handle the games on that rig? ... From what I've seen you effectively get half the FPS when running games with 3D on cos it has to render twice as many frames (one for each eye). That's why I'm leaning towards the GTX260c216 or the GTX 275 as a minimum for my builds. Lemme know your thoughts and impressions on the 3D Vision. Notihng like hearing it first hand. :)
 

xsistor

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I tried using PCSpecialist to get a rig similar to the overclockers one, for comparison:

COST = £874 (including VAt + Delivery)
Intel® Core™2 Quad Q9400 (2.66GHz) 1333MHz FSB/6MB Cache
4GB CORSAIR DOMINATOR 1066MHz - LIFETIME WARRANTY! (2x2GB)
ASUS® P5N-D: DDR2, SATAII, 2 x PCI-e x16, 2 PCI, 2 x PCI-e x1
Genuine Windows Vista™ Home Premium with SP1, 64-bit, CD & Licence (£75)
USB Options 6 x USB 2.0 PORTS (4 REAR + 2 FRONT) AS STANDARD
500GB SERIAL ATA 3-Gb/s HARD DRIVE WITH 8MB CACHE (7,200rpm)
22x DUAL LAYER LIGHTSCRIBE DVD WRITER ±R/±RW/RAM
896MB NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX275 PCI EXPRESS
Case ANTEC 900 BLACK GAMING CASE
Power Supply & Case Cooling 700W Quiet Quad Rail PSU + 120mm Case Fan (£58)
ASUS TRITON 81 PURE COPPER BASE ULTRA COOLER (£49)


Though of course I'd rather have the E8400 build I mentioned above. This was just for comparison on equal grounds.
 

Helloworld_98

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ok, look at OCUK, it's called the ultima vanquish, but if you want the GTX 285, you'll have to use the win7 beta for now to get it as with the OS, it puts you at £1200.

the reason the PCspecialist build is cheaper is because the components are of lower quality.

also by the time 3D becomes standard (about 2011/12 when microsoft and sony release their 3D consoles) your build will be out of date.
 

fullmetall

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This is why The Sticky was made, for these simple reasons.

If you would have filled out the sticky at the top of home built computers, you would've gotten better help.
 

xsistor

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==================================================
Nvidia GeForce 3D Vision & Samsung SM2233RZ 22" 120Hz 3D Widescreen LCD Monitor Bundle £398.99
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=BU-000-NV

Asus GeForce GTX 285 1024MB GDDR3 TV-Out/Dual DVI (PCI-Express) - Retail (Includes Terminator Salvation PC Game) £239.99
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=GX-190-AS

Intel Core 2 Duo E8500 LGA775 'Wolfdale' 3.16GHz (1333FSB) - Retail £137.99
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=CP-193-IN

OCZ ModXStream Pro 700w Silent SLI Ready ATX2 Modular Power Supply £75.99
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=CA-032-OC

EVGA 750i FTW nForce 750i SLi (Socket 775) PCI-Express DDR2 Motherboard £72.99
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=GX-103-EA

Western Digital Caviar Black 1TB SATA-II 32MB Cache - OEM (WD1001FALS) £70.99
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=HD-226-WD

Sony BDU-X10S Blu-Ray Reader Serial-ATA Drive - Retail £53.99
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=CD-059-SO

Antec 300 Three Hundred Ultimate Gaming Case - Black (No PSU) £44.99
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=CA-101-AN

Kingston HyperX 4GB (2x2GB) DDR2 8500C5 1066MHz Dual Channel (KHX8500D2K2/4G) £37.98
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=MY-039-KS

Akasa AK-967 Nero Direct Contact Heatpipe CPU Cooler (AM2/AM2+/939/LGA775/LGA1366) £23.99
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=HS-052-AK

Arctic Silver Thermal Epoxy (7g) £11.49
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=OA-001-AC
==================================================
COST OF BASE UNIT: £786.21
=====================
Total Cost: £1157.90 (£398.99 for monitor bundle)
====================================



Okay I've made some edits to this build. It now includes a 700w supply and a single 1TB hard disk with 32MB cache, (instead of RAid 0) and a Blu Ray reader ... for CD writing i figured I can always use one of my laptops.
 

xsistor

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Also as for operating system, I have Vista 32 bit DVD (Home Premium) that came with my old Dell laptop. Can I download Vista 64 off some site and install it on my desktop with the license from my laptop? thanks.

Should I just install Windows 7 RC instead? ... How is the gaming support on it? Are there any problems?
 

kronik2k

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buying one of these tomoz, very cheap, very fast.

This i7 920 build

Intel Core i7 920 D0 Stepping (SLBEJ) 2.66Ghz (Nehalem) (Socket LGA1366) - Retail + World In Conflict PC Game
£212.98
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=CP-280-IN

Gigabyte GA-EX58-UD3R Intel X58 (Socket 1366) PCI-Express DDR3 Motherboard
£143.99
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=MB-159-GI

Gainward GeForce GTX 260 Golden Sample "Core 216 55nm" 896MB GDDR3 TV-Out/Dual DVI (PCI-Express) (Includes Terminator Salvation PC Game)
£133.99
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=GX-104-GW

OCZ Gold 6GB (3x2GB) DDR3 2000MHz PC3-16000C10 Low-Voltage Triple Channel (OCZ3G2000LV6GK)
£97.99
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=MY-153-OC

PC Power & Cooling Silencer 750 Quad-Crossfire PCI-E 750W Power Supply
£83.98
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=CA-004-PP

Western Digital Caviar Black 640GB SATA-II 32MB Cache - OEM (WD6401AALS)
£53.99
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=HD-244-WD

Antec 300 Three Hundred Ultimate Gaming Case - Black (No PSU)
£44.99
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=CA-101-AN

Samsung SH-S223Q/BEBE 22x DVD±RW SATA Dual Layer Lightscribe ReWriter (Black) - OEM
£20.99
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=CD-101-SA

TOTAL: £792.90

OR

This Phenom II AM3 955 BE

AMD Phenom II X4 Quad Core 955 Black Edition 3.2GHz (Socket AM3) - Retail
£181.99
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=CP-244-AM

Asus M4A79T Deluxe AMD 790FX (Socket AM3) PCI-Express DDR3 Motherboard
£136.99
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=MB-327-AS

XFX ATI Radeon HD 4890 1GB GDDR5 PCI-Express Graphics Card
£139.99
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=GX-124-XF

OCZ Platinum AMD Edition 4GB (2x2GB) DDR3 PC3-12800C7 1600MHz Dual Channel (OCZ3P1600LVAM4GK)
£54.99
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=MY-165-OC&groupid=701&catid=8&subcat=1387

PC Power & Cooling Silencer 750 Quad-Crossfire PCI-E 750W Power Supply
£83.98
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=CA-004-PP

Western Digital Caviar Black 640GB SATA-II 32MB Cache - OEM (WD6401AALS)
£53.99
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=HD-244-WD

Antec 300 Three Hundred Ultimate Gaming Case - Black (No PSU)
£44.99
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=CA-101-AN

Samsung SH-S223Q/BEBE 22x DVD±RW SATA Dual Layer Lightscribe ReWriter (Black) - OEM
£20.99
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=CD-101-SA

TOTAL: £717.90