Dr Carson, right or wrong?

[JAYDEEJOHN]

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2013/02/15/why-dr-ben-carson-is-my-hero-it-not-what-think/

These are things Ive read for a long time, these responsibilities, and was taught and raised by.
We need to quit kicking our strengths, and start re indorsing them, tho not to leave others behind

 

[jsc]

Dr. Carson is right. However, I disagree with some of Juan Williams' comments.

 

[MU_Engineer]

Dr. Carson is right. However, I disagree with some of Juan Williams' comments.

That is the same impression I got. Dr. Carson had the guts to stand up to the president as an individual and tell him his policies are flawed. The last person who did that was Joe the Plumber and the Obama campaign had him harassed afterwards. Furthermore Dr. Carson made some very good suggestions for how to fix the problems and they got publicized to some degree. I didn't particularly care for Juan Williams' race and class comments. I applaud the physician for his guts in standing up to the president; he could be green and from Neptune and it wouldn't matter.

 

[johnsonma]

He's got some balls but the comments about how you have to be conservative to work hard are just ignorant. I pay my student loans and bills just like everyone else. I put in extra time at work to get that promotion over the other person. Worked two jobs when i was just out of college and couldn't get a job. Does that make me conservative? Nope.

 

[chunkymonster]

Dr. Carson is the latest in a long and distinguished line of black conservatives like Thomas Sowell, JC Watts, Shelby Steele, and Angela McGlowan. I have a great respect the black conservative point of view as it brings a level of diversity that makes most liberals and progressives squirm in their seats.

The fact that Juan Williams makes it a point to let the reader know Dr. Carson is black is insulting. It was almost as if to say that Dr. Carson was some great revelation being toted by conservatives because another black man had the audacity to criticize President Obama. But this form of political correctness should be no surprise as liberals and progressives fly into a tail spin when someone who happens to be black goes against their narrative and world view.

I am also not surprised that Juan Williams opposes a flat tax and medical savings accounts. I personally am on the fence about MSA's as I would need to hear the details but I am for a flat national income tax. I just have to laugh at Juan Williams's statement, "His idea for a ten percent “flat tax”...would ensure that the wealthiest Americans pay considerably less in taxes while the poor and working class would pay considerably more in taxes." The idea that the wealthiest would pay less ignores that there would be no tax deductions or legal loopholes under a flat tax plan. With less loopholes and no deductions it stands to reason the wealthiest would end up paying more and have less incentive to hide their wealth in offshore accounts or create failed businesses to offset their income. As far as the lower income families paying more, Juan is right, they would pay more. But when 47% of total tax payers has zero federal tax liability and they are require to start living the President's mantra of "everyone paying their fair share" of course they will pay more than they are now, but the upside will be a less of a tax burden on the middle class and they will finally have "skin in the game". The liberal and progressive opposition to a flat national income tax only reinforces he corruption and punitive nature of out current progressive tax code.

 

[wanamingo]

Oh the 47% percent again..... You know if Romney were smart enough to drop it maybe you should follow suit.

1/5 of the 47% are elderly, Are in a combat zone, are in college, are a business (They are people too my friend) make an obscene amount of money, and the working poor that still pay payroll taxes (12% or some such) or my favorite part is this little gem:

Nearly 5 million taxpayers will be off the rolls as a result of the tax relief this year.

Thats from Bush in 2004, seems like a real dick move to blame the 47% while not even 10 years ago removing 5 million people from that tax obligation.... and bragging about it.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

Thats from Bush in 2004, seems like a real dick move to blame the 47% while not even 10 years ago removing 5 million people from that tax obligation.... and bragging about it.


Yeah how fair is that?
wait a minute.....

 

[chunkymonster]

Oh the 47% percent again..... You know if Romney were smart enough to drop it maybe you should follow suit.

1/5 of the 47% are elderly, Are in a combat zone, are in college, are a business (They are people too my friend) make an obscene amount of money, and the working poor that still pay payroll taxes (12% or some such) or my favorite part is this little gem:

Nearly 5 million taxpayers will be off the rolls as a result of the tax relief this year.

Thats from Bush in 2004, seems like a real dick move to blame the 47% while not even 10 years ago removing 5 million people from that tax obligation.... and bragging about it.

Blah, blah, blah...typical response when a conservative brings up how corrupt and punitive the current tax code is.

Please note that I said nothing about payroll taxes, state taxes, or other such taxes; I specified federal taxes. Also note that I said of the "total tax payers" and not the 47% of the total population as is the popular liberal narrative to skew the debate on how corrupt an punitive the tax code is.

Lastly, read this from PolitiFact...51 percent of American households pay no income tax. Be sure to not ignore that PolitiFact gave it a "true" rating.

Actually mingo, I'm rather disappointed that you chose to rant on me about my opinion on Dr. Carson's take on the flat tax rather contribute something constructive and meaningful related to the intent and purpose of this post. So, how about it, got any comments on the Juan Williams article or Dr. Carson's speech at the National Prayer Breakfast?

 

[musical marv]

He's got some balls but the comments about how you have to be conservative to work hard are just ignorant. I pay my student loans and bills just like everyone else. I put in extra time at work to get that promotion over the other person. Worked two jobs when i was just out of college and couldn't get a job. Does that make me conservative? Nope.

It is not what you know it is who you know today.You deserve a break like everyone out there.Unfortunately it did not come yet.

 

[wanamingo]

Dr. Carson seems like an interesting fellow but Im with Johnson on this one, there is no need to attach political ideology to work ethic.

There are a lot of negatives to a flat tax plan...let the discussion begin. Im down for a modified flat tax, businesses need to be taxed at a different rate than your average joe (Sorry corporations you arent peoples), there should be a minimum poverty line at which people pay no federal tax is paid. You will undoubtedly shift more of a tax burden to the lower and middle classes which is going to hurt our economy because for some reason conservatives dont understand who is buying all of these American widgets .....

If [strike]Romney [/strike] Mr. Moneybags has 500x the money (Im shooting really low here) as me, does he also have 500x more buying power? Is he going to buy 500x more big screen tvs or cars? Nope.... He will buy slightly more than a handful of families and then send his money off to another country to dodge our taxes. If he wants to make more money he would make sure his employees have as much money as possible to buy American goods.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

Thats simply not realistic.
As the libs attacked his previous ventures, those ventures were?
Investments.
What exactly do these do?
They keep our monies safe, and dont require the government to pick and choose, and lose.
They buy higher valued product, so, the people building yachts, Titans (same folks building all other nVidia product), cars (same folks building Chrysler/GM/Ford etc), guess this doesnt count?
None of it?
So, it just sits in the banks, overseas, or anywheres else and somehow accumulates monies?
Those monies, even if not used directly for investments create investments for others, including you and I.
So, flat tax, would have to do in depth on, havnt really bothered, as I think it will never happen.
The lowest end folk, they obviously need the breaks we can afford them, we are already strangling business here, as many corporations have moved overseas, as has their HQs, and some who left their original countries have left here and went back as well, proof we arent competitive, even for our own businesses here, where we all work.

The demands of Obamacare are only going up, as Ive been saying they would for over a year now, and which many have just ignored, and they will continue to, as well as our taxes, which also will continue to, yet its all about somehow getting more money instead of spending less, and spending wiser.
We were told that having tons of money thrown at schooling would help us, it hasnt, as weve fallen further world wide, we were also told, after throwing tons of money, that social programs would lift people out of poverty, it hasnt, and this attitude hasnt changed, yet some only give this guy a pass, when hes been there n done that.
He was poor, he wasnt looked at easier because of his color of his skin, yet somehow, hes just OK?
Yet we have similar people/leaders getting all the attention, power, recognition etc, as their children gain elected official status and become even greater, known crooks.

Yet, hes just OK?

Dont care for Al, nor Jesse either, but this man, I would like to know, and bridge the gap with, and not to feel better either, but because I would not only be honored to do so, but because I know I could learn alot from him, as we all could, if he was just more than OK that is

 

[wanamingo]

Applying the same tax code (Flat tax) to corporations as you would a person doesnt make sense.

Remember there is no such thing as corporate social responsibility. They are designed to make money. Period. Would a corporation make their products cheaper if they had to pay less taxes? Nope their shareholders and management would see the money, not the consumer or hourly employee.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

Business thrives and survives on competition, nothing else, and is why we have monopoly laws, so they dont do what youre implying mingo.
Now, since at least the government recognizes this, explain why these companies leave here? Yet they still sell their product here?
Isnt this in itself job loss? Revenue loss?

So, lowering taxes still leaves competition in place here, but also gives our local/national businesses an edge, and also attracts other businesses from elsewheres, which brings more commerce, manufacturing, jobs, revenues etc etc.
All Im saying is, we arent very competitive world wide currently with our tax structures the way they are

 

[johnsonma]

How are we not competitive? Given all the loopholes in our corporate tax code we are below the world wide average. In fact if you compare corporate taxes as a fraction of GDP we are one of the lowest countries on the planet.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

Better to just look at imports vs exports?
GDP means alot of things, and the corporate situation in this country isnt all business in this country.
Compare our exports to other top tier countries, then lets talk

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

Besides, just look at a liberal talking point, the military.
How much actually goes overseas compared to our R&D, usage of actual product?
That right there I would guess is a large part of GDP and very little exports, which tilts the numbers even further

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures


Our exports far exceed our imports here, and yet it is the single largest part of the gdp that actually makes things, period.
And those other countries GDPs?
You can bet theyre buying our military goods, adding again, huge sums to our exports, and adding huge sums to their imports.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

If people arbitrarily throw numbers around, you can bet they mean something.
Follow the trail, then make sense to what you know.
GE makes alot of military product, yet theyve paid no taxes.

 

[johnsonma]

Better to just look at imports vs exports?
GDP means alot of things, and the corporate situation in this country isnt all business in this country.
Compare our exports to other top tier countries, then lets talk

Our total exports are worth more than the entire GDP of Norway and Sweden combined. Our exports have continually grown and are projected to in the near future as well. We had the 2nd most exports of any country in 2012.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

Our military spending is greater than the top umpteen combined.
Looking at my link, those countries (the top 15 listed) with higher GPD to military spending than us buy from us, or, we export our goods to them.
Many on that list buy from us.

My point here is, if you just throw out a number without breaking it down, then also not even try to understand why we do what we do, as far as taxation goes, and come to a complete political answer without doing the above, you cant have any of the answers to start with.
It takes a long look and understanding of where the monies come from, what they do, and how they fit in order of importance to us, or value to us, tho not always, but mostly so, and this is how many corporations are taxed.
This is a simple way of showing why investments are often tax break scenarios, and should be.
The strength of our military, as well as our allies are of great importance to us.
Look at my link, and notice that many of the "better" Arab countries military spending compared to their GDPs are extremely high, higher than ours, and its us who are selling them their military goods.

 

[musical marv]

How are we not competitive? Given all the loopholes in our corporate tax code we are below the world wide average. In fact if you compare corporate taxes as a fraction of GDP we are one of the lowest countries on the planet.

So why are we always struggling with our economy?

 

[MU_Engineer]

So why are we always struggling with our economy?

Regulations.

 

[chunkymonster]

^ I would like to add failed stimulus packages, failed economic policy, and failed energy policy.

 

[johnsonma]

We have a pretty robust energy policy, I'm guessing your still upset about that pipeline.......

 

[johnsonma]

So why are we always struggling with our economy?

You mean besides the decrease in regulations that lead to the financial and housing industries collapsing?

 

[MU_Engineer]

Didn't you mean to say increase in regulations?

http://www.businessinsider.com/how-the-government-caused-the-mortgage-crisis-2009-10

As I've said before, what banker do you know who would lend money to someone they know CAN NOT pay it back unless they were forced to do so?

Ger out of your ideology on this one johnson, because you are weaving a false narrative, and you're wrong.

Like you said, banks won't lend if they believe they will have a loss in doing so. They either won't lend to people who can't pay it back or charge them exorbitant rates on small amounts of principal so that the ones that do pay can make up for all of the losses for those that don't pay. The government can't simply force banks to make loans to people who can't pay them back at regular-ish rates as the banks would lose money and close. (Take a good note of that last sentence as it very much applies to the healthcare debate.) So the government stepped in and created Sallie Mae and Freddie Mac to back these high-risk mortgages and absolve the banks of most of the risk. The banks predictably went bonkers with the lending because anything they made on sketchy loans they got to keep and the government ate most of the losses. That created a vast supply of easy money for buyers. Home values got bid way up because money was so cheap to get and created a situation where housing prices were bid up too high too quickly. All bubbles go pop and so did this one.