Dreamhold red herrings(?)

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

SPOILERS:




























The following things seem to have no purpose in the game, and I wondered
what other people made of them:

The black marble pedestal. Is this one of those things in a memory
palace that has lost its referent? That is, "the owner just shoved it
against a wall one day, and never bothered to move it." It meant
something once, but doesn't anymore?

The whole Jungle Scene. I don't understand what it's about at all.
There doesn't appear to be anything you can do once you're there. Is
that the Green World?

The "letter of credit" you find in the Red World's desert landscape:
"Letter in hand... sum of 5000... in reparation, military action of the
month of... fields, property, six barrels of wine, one cow..." This
doesn't seem to map to any of the memories of the protagonist. It may
be there only for symmetry: there are important items in the other two
places you can go via the telescope and easel (and what a shame that you
can't visit the chart!).

And then there are the apple, the harp, the mosaic, and the two
unpassable doors, which I've already seen discussion about and don't
have much to add. The harp, in particular, seems as if it is somehow
important.

Adam

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

In article <cq32oq$mk7$1@news.fsf.net>, Adam Thornton <adam@fsf.net> wrote:
>SPOILERS:

>The following things seem to have no purpose in the game, and I wondered
>what other people made of them:
>
>The black marble pedestal. Is this one of those things in a memory
>palace that has lost its referent? That is, "the owner just shoved it
>against a wall one day, and never bothered to move it." It meant
>something once, but doesn't anymore?

Well, it seems likely that it's related to the cliff scene you
occasionally get when you walk into the harp room. But I don't think
it has any other value, except as one of the things differentiating
the various hallway rooms.

>The whole Jungle Scene. I don't understand what it's about at all.
>There doesn't appear to be anything you can do once you're there. Is
>that the Green World?

In expert mode you have to go into the jungle scene to get the iron
key. Otherwise I think it's just an exotic place, but it's interesting
scenery.

>The "letter of credit" you find in the Red World's desert landscape:
>"Letter in hand... sum of 5000... in reparation, military action of the
>month of... fields, property, six barrels of wine, one cow..." This
>doesn't seem to map to any of the memories of the protagonist. It may
>be there only for symmetry: there are important items in the other two
>places you can go via the telescope and easel (and what a shame that you
>can't visit the chart!).

It doesn't exactly correspond with any memory but I don't think it's
unrelated either -- it seems to be about trying to make up for some
kind of erroneous military action. Perhaps that's the action that
leads to the bloody cloth the PC's son breaks with him over.

>Adam
--
Dan Shiovitz :: dbs@cs.wisc.edu :: http://www.drizzle.com/~dans
"He settled down to dictate a letter to the Consolidated Nailfile and
Eyebrow Tweezer Corporation of Scranton, Pa., which would make them
realize that life is stern and earnest and Nailfile and Eyebrow Tweezer
Corporations are not put in this world for pleasure alone." -PGW




-----------== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Uncensored Usenet News ==----------
http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----= Over 100,000 Newsgroups - Unlimited Fast Downloads - 19 Servers =-----

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

In article <cq32oq$mk7$1@news.fsf.net>, Adam Thornton <adam@fsf.net> wrote:
>SPOILERS:

>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

>The following things seem to have no purpose in the game, and I wondered
>what other people made of them:
>
>The black marble pedestal. Is this one of those things in a memory
>palace that has lost its referent? That is, "the owner just shoved it
>against a wall one day, and never bothered to move it."

But the owner is you... Of course, you're supposed to see that description
quite early in the game, before you know who the owner is.

>It meant
>something once, but doesn't anymore?

You used to put something (some memory?) on a pedestal, but not
anymore. The fact that the pedestal is still around indicates either
that you hope to put that something (someone?) back on the pedestal
(reconciliation?), or that the whole thing is too painful to dispose
of the pedestal properly.

Off the top of my head, the only thing I can think of is the image
of the PC's son. But I'm not sure it fits with the PC's character.

>The whole Jungle Scene. I don't understand what it's about at all.
>There doesn't appear to be anything you can do once you're there.

I think it says something about the relation between the PC and the
dreamhold, or the PC and his memories, or perhaps it's a meta thing
about the player-story relation. Either you're in an empty room,
looking at a plant in a tub, or you're in an empty tub, looking out at
the plants. Smelling the flower turns the world inside-out as it were;
I feel a(very imperfect) parallel with looking at the paintings and
entering them, and the projected sky inside the dome and the real (?)
sky outside.

But what it really means... I'm afraid it beats me.

>Is that the Green World?

Interesting idea. Then the desert painting is the red moon, but where
are the other moons?

>The "letter of credit" you find in the Red World's desert landscape:
>"Letter in hand... sum of 5000... in reparation, military action of the
>month of... fields, property, six barrels of wine, one cow..." This
>doesn't seem to map to any of the memories of the protagonist. It may
>be there only for symmetry: there are important items in the other two
>places you can go via the telescope and easel (and what a shame that you
>can't visit the chart!).

I thought it was there as part of the backstory, but it doesn't really
fit in. I don't really think Zarf would put something like this in
without a good reason.

>And then there are the apple, the harp, the mosaic, and the two
>unpassable doors, which I've already seen discussion about and don't
>have much to add. The harp, in particular, seems as if it is somehow
>important.

The harp, like the pedestal, seems to scream "I'm a symbol! Interpret
me!".



By the way: am I the only one to see the curtains in the mirror room
as a David Lynch reference?
--
Magnus Olsson (mol@df.lth.se)
PGP Public Key available at http://www.df.lth.se/~mol

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

Magnus Olsson <mol@df.lth.se> wrote:
> In article <cq32oq$mk7$1@news.fsf.net>, Adam Thornton <adam@fsf.net> wrote:
> >SPOILERS:
> ^L
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> ^L
> >The following things seem to have no purpose in the game, and I wondered
> >what other people made of them:
> >
> >The black marble pedestal. Is this one of those things in a memory
> >palace that has lost its referent? That is, "the owner just shoved it
> >against a wall one day, and never bothered to move it."

> But the owner is you... Of course, you're supposed to see that description
> quite early in the game, before you know who the owner is.

I was disappointed that the description didn't change after regaining (most
of) your memories. At that point the "the owner" reference should change,
at least.


> >It meant
> >something once, but doesn't anymore?

> You used to put something (some memory?) on a pedestal, but not
> anymore. The fact that the pedestal is still around indicates either
> that you hope to put that something (someone?) back on the pedestal
> (reconciliation?), or that the whole thing is too painful to dispose
> of the pedestal properly.

> Off the top of my head, the only thing I can think of is the image
> of the PC's son. But I'm not sure it fits with the PC's character.

> >The whole Jungle Scene. I don't understand what it's about at all.
> >There doesn't appear to be anything you can do once you're there.

> I think it says something about the relation between the PC and the
> dreamhold, or the PC and his memories, or perhaps it's a meta thing
> about the player-story relation. Either you're in an empty room,
> looking at a plant in a tub, or you're in an empty tub, looking out at
> the plants. Smelling the flower turns the world inside-out as it were;
> I feel a(very imperfect) parallel with looking at the paintings and
> entering them, and the projected sky inside the dome and the real (?)
> sky outside.

> But what it really means... I'm afraid it beats me.

> >Is that the Green World?

> Interesting idea. Then the desert painting is the red moon, but where
> are the other moons?

I don't think the desert painting is the red moon; after changing the fire,
the world you are on is the red moon, and the desert landscape doesn't
have the red-banded sky you see then.

--
_______________________________________________________________________
Dan Blum tool@panix.com
"I wouldn't have believed it myself if I hadn't just made it up."

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

In article <cq46u8$fhd$1@reader2.panix.com>, Dan Blum <tool@panix.com> wrote:
>Magnus Olsson <mol@df.lth.se> wrote:
>I don't think the desert painting is the red moon; after changing the fire,
>the world you are on is the red moon, and the desert landscape doesn't
>have the red-banded sky you see then.

Wait, it is?

I thought it was some weirdly metaphorical version of my (the blue)
world. Does it actually move your house from Blue to Red worlds? If
so, I find that a bit disappointing.

Adam

 

[pj]

Archived from groups: rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

In response to
>I was thinking that the red world was an alternate-plane version of
the
>world you started in, but it could also just be the same world, viewed
>differently.

Magnus wrote:
>That's my impression as well.

Given the nature of the dreamhold as memory palace, not necessarily a
physical location, virtually any interpretation can be correct, which
is presumably what Z was looking for in the first place.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

Adam Thornton <adam@fsf.net> wrote:
> In article <cq46u8$fhd$1@reader2.panix.com>, Dan Blum <tool@panix.com> wrote:
> >Magnus Olsson <mol@df.lth.se> wrote:
> >I don't think the desert painting is the red moon; after changing the fire,
> >the world you are on is the red moon, and the desert landscape doesn't
> >have the red-banded sky you see then.

> Wait, it is?

I'm pretty sure. You see the other four worlds from the orrery in the sky -
by process of elmination, you must be standing on the fifth. Also, the
description of the sky closely matches the description of the red globe
in the orrery.

> I thought it was some weirdly metaphorical version of my (the blue)
> world. Does it actually move your house from Blue to Red worlds? If
> so, I find that a bit disappointing.

Well, who says that you start out on the blue world? If that's where you are
you should be able to see the other four in the night sky, but you can't.
I was thinking that the red world was an alternate-plane version of the
world you started in, but it could also just be the same world, viewed
differently.

--
_______________________________________________________________________
Dan Blum tool@panix.com
"I wouldn't have believed it myself if I hadn't just made it up."

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

In article <cq5pgs$203$1@reader2.panix.com>, Dan Blum <tool@panix.com> wrote:
>Adam Thornton <adam@fsf.net> wrote:
>> In article <cq46u8$fhd$1@reader2.panix.com>, Dan Blum <tool@panix.com> wrote:
>> I thought it was some weirdly metaphorical version of my (the blue)
>> world. Does it actually move your house from Blue to Red worlds? If
>> so, I find that a bit disappointing.
>
>Well, who says that you start out on the blue world? If that's where you are
>you should be able to see the other four in the night sky, but you can't.

ISTR that there's only one moon in the "ordinary" night sky (when the
fire is hot) and the PC seems surprised when there are suddenly four
of them.

>I was thinking that the red world was an alternate-plane version of the
>world you started in, but it could also just be the same world, viewed
>differently.

That's my impression as well.

--
Magnus Olsson (mol@df.lth.se)
PGP Public Key available at http://www.df.lth.se/~mol

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.int-fiction (More info?)

In article <cq5pgs$203$1@reader2.panix.com>, Dan Blum <tool@panix.com> wrote:
>Adam Thornton <adam@fsf.net> wrote:
>Well, who says that you start out on the blue world? If that's where you are
>you should be able to see the other four in the night sky, but you can't.

Hunh. I had assumed that my orrery was geocentric, with my geo at the
middle. Maybe not.

>I was thinking that the red world was an alternate-plane version of the
>world you started in, but it could also just be the same world, viewed
>differently.

Adam